Homesick

Started by japanesebaby, January 04, 2008, 12:28:47

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japanesebaby

hhmm, i think you both might misunderstand me a bit(?). i was referring to these people meantioned above, people who "want to overthrown mary" and who create a fantasy world where they imagine themselves in her place. that's waht i meant with "identifying with the object of robert's lyrics", that's why i mentioned songs like 'just like heaven' and 'lovesong'.
i wasn't saying it's "wrong" to identify this way. i suppose especially teenagers (i don't mean you! ;)) all around the world need to do it somewhat, so you find it everywhere, on most every kind of fan sites. people confessing their eternal love to their idol and being 200% certain that they themselves are THE person in their idol's songs. so i'm not sayin that sort of thing is wrong or bad, all i'm saying is that that sort of identifying is really not very interesting starting point to discuss the lyrics (not saying you were doing so here, though). because it only leads to "ooooh i love you robert!" and really nothing much more. and it's a pretty narcistic way to reflect the lyrics because it's not trying to "see inside" the lyrics and reflect them in your own, real life, instead it's about projecting yourself as some kind of character in some kind of fantasy world. instead you're consciously misintepreting something (the lyrics), in order to create your own nice fantasy world where you live with robert, happily ever after etc.
and THAT is not the same as focusing on correspondences between your own life and what the lyrics are saying to you, it's not the same as having these "oh, i understand what he means" moments. if you want to see clearly and really reflect what's being said in the lyrics, you need to be yourself and maintain your own identity - thus, keep your distance to the art/artists. otherwise you cannot really see clearly, you cannot reflect the "message" of the song/lyrics/literature/art/all that sort of things.

so i do think the difference there is huge. and i was simply trying to point out possible different interpretations of "identifying with something". there are several kinds of it. and whereas one cannot say that some are more valuable than others, some of them definitely do have more meaning what comes to using them as basis of conversation.


and if it needs to be said: i wasn't referring to either one of you (melly or robiola) or anyone else here. i was simply pointing out that very often, when we talk about lyrics and their meaning to us, the conversation seems to go into this direction, a direction where people forget themselves and confuse identifying with fantasizing being the object in a song/in the lyrics.

and i also brought it up because i think this is a completely different conversation than a conversation about the song called 'homesick'.
so, what about 'homesick'?

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

robiola

Yes, your meaning is clearer to me now.
I didn't actually think you were talking about me, don't worry. ;)
You're right, the conversation is drifting, but when I find a thought-provoking post I can't help but jump at the chance for a nice juicy discussion!
Will try to get back on track.

melly

I certainly didn't think you were referring to me either jb, not at all! I see what you are saying, and I guess, as a teenager, we tend to not really look at lyrics in the way we possibly do when we are older...I know when I was a teenager ( in days of old when knights were bold) I honestly couldn't have cared less what came out of the mouths of some of my "idols"...oh, I enjoyed the lyrics, but never, ever, took it any deeper...I just knew I loved that artist/band, so anything they produced was generally, ok with me. I know that's not very sophisticated, but, at 13-17, that is one thing I definately was NOT!! haha.. As for "drifting off" the origianl topic, Homesick, maybe, we could encourage this type of conversation anyway, maybe in a new thread, if you would prefer.

ps..some of my "idols" were David Bowie, T-Rex, Black Sabbath...no Bay City Rollers for this little black duck!!
" Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain "...

sues777

I have to admit I've been listening to Homesick a lot over the last month or two and I think my own interpretation of it is very much line with jb's.  To me it's about the feelings of restlessness within oneself, not knowing where you should be, who you should be, what you should be doing, to the point of being somewhere, doing something and trying to will that situation into making you believe it's what's you want ("inspire in me the desire in me to never go home") because you believe you should be happy and settled, but you're not.

To me it echoes feelings of self doubt and frustration, but not hopelessness and despair, as you're still looking for that "inspiration".

Along the same lines for me is -
"No I won't do it again, I don't want to pretend
If it can't be like before I've got to let it end
I don't want what I was, I had a change of head
But maybe someday....
yeah maybe someday

I've got to let it go and leave it gone
Just walk away, stop it going on
Get too scared to jump if I wait too long
But maybe someday....

I'll see you smile as you call my name
Start to feel, and it feels the same
and I know that maybe someday's come
maybe someday come's again"


For me it's all about realising you're in a situation you used to enjoy but don't love anymore (and I'm not necessarily talking about a relationship). You know it just isn't right, and you should do something about it, but then something good happens/goes your way and it's all ok again because you feel you should be happy and satisfied and you're just being difficult in always trying to find something more....But that feeling only lasts for a while...

I also agree there are many different ways to interpret lyrics.  I really don't know if I looked for the "real" meaning behind lyrics or tried to look at them from the writer's perspective as a teenager ('twas a long time ago) but maybe that's just because I didn't have the life experience to draw on and just couldn't really identify as I hadn't lived through it yet. 

However, although the depth of Robert's lyrics is probably the main reason I'm still listening to the Cure (I do also think they're brilliant musically by the way), I must confess there are some songs I adore that I love to simply be entertained by - Burn immediately comes to mind.  To me, these lyrics embody the grandest romantic gestures and perfectly fit the spirit of the movie they were written for (buildings burn, people die but true love never dies).  But then again I can be a right soppy git at times.... :smth050 (but please let me be clear - I don't want anybody expelled...)

oops, sorry, I think I've taken up a lot of space and have probably drifted off topic but this is a great discussion!!
The further we go, and older we grow, the more we know the less we show

tigermilk

Robert has indeed, with his music, created the soundtrack of my life and many others around the world. Certain songs hit home harder than others, certain albums remind some of their need and longing for a loved one, their first kiss, their first love, their life as a whole. My favourite album is Disintegration followed my Pornography. But I believe if I had to pick an album that best sums up my life so far I would choose Bloodflowers. Robert has captured those moments of longing and of lost in a way that few in the world have ever done. Like a poet, he has given us his soul in music. Music that is timeless because it always deals with an ongoing and everlasting theme, love and loss. Is there an outdated song?? No, The Cure's music will always remain relevant and continue to make my heart smile just like the first time I fell in love with them.

revolt

I suppose the fact that the song is called "Homesick" and at the same time its most important line is "inspire the desire in me to never go home" has to be interpreted in the following way: the writer misses home but at the same time he doesn't want to feel that way. This is a very basic conclusion, but if we agree on this then we can start from here and speculate on the its possible meaning/implications...

Why does the writer feel homesick?
Maybe he's just far away from home, feeling isolated, estranged, and since "home" means, even if only on a general level, "comfort" and "belonging", this is just the basic immediate feeling-response to his current situation.
Maybe he really loves home for more substantial or particular reasons, because he loves someone that has stayed back there. Maybe the word "home" could even just stand for the "loved one", instead of meaning a particular place.

The "desire to never come home" is the opposite of homesickness. Now, why would the writer want to feel this "negative desire" instead of feeling homesick, which is a sad feeling but has a "positive" meaning?
Maybe just because homesickness is a feeling that hurts. The writer doesn't want to feel that hurt and therefore he is merely searching for something that may alleviate the pain.
But maybe the writer thinks that for some reason he shouldn't be feeling this homesickness, not because of the pain involved, but because he more or less rationally believes that home isn't really the place for him. He misses it because he is emotionally attached to it (maybe because of a person or persons he loves but maybe also because it is simply the place where he always has lived), but in his mind he thinks that he should me moving on, maybe because home somehow is preventing him from achieving all the things that he thinks would truly fulfil him.

Now, going into more specific details in the lyrics, the writer has clearly found a romantic partner away from home. He has enjoyed the experience of being physically with her and wants to repeat it, hoping that it will help him get rid of homesickness. Depending on the circumstances, this could mean that he is cheating on his lover/wife, but it could also simply mean that he has found someone to fill, if only for a brief moment, a space that was previously occupied by no one. And because this experience was a powerful one, he is hoping that it will be enough to help him break the chains of his life-up-to-now (these chains could have a real, objective meaning – the binding ties that come with matrimony or any sort of relationship based on compromise, but they could also be merely psychological – the mental inertia that comes from living a life on repeat-mode).

Well, I think I have more or less covered the most important stuff. I would only like to add, on a more general level, that I'm sure that sometimes illusions can save. Love (is it only an illusion?) or religion can save people from falling in despair, giving them strong reasons to live. Even if these reasons are merely illusory, as long as a person believes in them, their power can be enough to "save" them.

Also, the fact that someone has never found "true love", or a feeling that proves to be deep and enduring, doesn't necessarily mean that this feeling does not exist or is merely a powerful illusion. I suppose much the same could be said about God, but, as an atheist, I won't be developing this last line of thought...


PS: Analysing songs this way eventually becomes a bit geeky, but then all kinds of analysis eventually will make you a geek if you carry them too far...  :-D

japanesebaby

Quote from: revolt on September 12, 2008, 14:15:06
I suppose the fact that the song is called "Homesick" and at the same time its most important line is "inspire the desire in me to never go home" has to be interpreted in the following way:

the art of all analysis is not to force things to pre-existing moulds and not to feel any pressure to choose the obvious interpretations (which are often if not entirely wrong at least not the most exciting ones), but to let the subject matter take its own shape within us, just by themselves. the only analysis that can truly speak to us is the one that comes from within us, not from outside. therefore it's actually more or less unimportant what the writer of the lyrics "meant", what it "meant to him: the writer is forever in the outside, whereas we're left within ourselves and ourselves alone in the inside. we need to reflect and not to explain, that's all that matters (if anything at all).

for me the most important thing in the lyrics is the concept of home, the impossibility of its existence. and the cruelty of that.
and of course it's clear that home is never a place. is it a person then? no: 'home' is a code word that should not be explained or interpreted, unless it's an interpretation from within. and there's a sign saying "no trespassing" there for anyone who tries to enter from the outside.


Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

revolt

Quote from: japanesebaby on September 12, 2008, 14:48:57
Quote from: revolt on September 12, 2008, 14:15:06
I suppose the fact that the song is called "Homesick" and at the same time its most important line is "inspire the desire in me to never go home" has to be interpreted in the following way:

the art of all analysis is not to force things to pre-existing moulds and not to feel any pressure to choose the obvious interpretations (which are often if not entirely wrong at least not the most exciting ones), but to let the subject matter take its own shape within us, just by themselves. the only analysis that can truly speak to us is the one that comes from within us, not from outside. therefore it's actually more or less unimportant what the writer of the lyrics "meant", what it "meant to him: the writer is forever in the outside, whereas we're left within ourselves and ourselves alone in the inside. we need to reflect and not to explain, that's all that matters (if anything at all).

for me the most important thing in the lyrics is the concept of home, the impossibility of its existence. and the cruelty of that.
and of course it's clear that home is never a place. is it a person then? no: 'home' is a code word that should not be explained or interpreted, unless it's an interpretation from within. and there's a sign saying "no trespassing" there for anyone who tries to enter from the outside.





The art of discussion is also to agree on some sort of basis from where to start, otherwise you'll find yourself running around larger and larger circles without getting anywhere.

All interpretations come from within, at least in part. But at the same time, all the meanings that you find in yourself have one time or another been outside, before you made them your own. You are born a blank page and throughout your life all sorts of meanings eventually get printed on that page. And where do all these meanings come from? From the outside. When they eventually get in your page, they might be somewhat changed, specially because the richer in experiences you become the more there will be in you to eventually interpret and modify the new meanings that you come across.

Anyway, all the possibilities I have posited I know them by personal experience (except that I'm not a cheater, but that doesn't matter). I was just trying to rationalise it and simplify it all to make it discussable here. It doesn't matter, anyway.



PS: I can read all the "no trespassing" signs, I'm not blind. I'll just offer this as a last general thought: there is no such thing as absolute safety. Trying to reach it will only eventually lead you to absolute loneliness. Is it something anyone else should care about? Maybe not.

japanesebaby

Quote from: revolt on September 12, 2008, 15:40:19
I'll just offer this as a last general thought: there is no such thing as absolute safety. Trying to reach it will only eventually lead you to absolute loneliness. Is it something anyone else should care about? Maybe not.

very well put, i agree. although i'd go a bit further and say that regardless of whether we try to seek safety, we're absolutely alone. always were, always will be. anyway, trying to seek safety can surely enhance this realization - sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it isn't. because it might become a tragedy to some. your life depends on how well you can cope with the realization of being absolutely alone: if you can't, you're doomed.

(and this also explains why god keeps being popular: under such grim circumstances just about any promise of absolute safety, however obscure and faint and well, of however unsecure nature - it will sell. even if it's something postponed so that you need to die first to obtain it  - still, it will sell.  why? because for many anything is better than facing the reality of absolute loneliness. any fairytale will do.
and should anyone else really care? like you said, maybe not. there's the great irony in it!)


*edit:
this is also why i personally do feel that 'homesick' is the saddest song of the cure:
http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,3284.msg20315.html#msg20315
'all cats are grey' gets very close lyrically but it doesn't quite deliver musically (by that i mean the music doesn't quite dwell on the grief, there's too much hope in it (=the music), whereas 'homesick' has none).
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

sickboybg

sometimes when i;m drunk ill start analysing  :D
up to now ill limit with saying only that ive spent hours and hours wondering why it is called homesick as Robert has the 'desire to never go home again'
but that's being homesick actually...wanting to never return...to stop missing home...one of the most painful experiences one can suffer is being away from home...only once who have been ripped from the place where even walls have sentimental value can understand
and oh how we...
what to do you think follows
what has Robert hidden in your opinion  :)

revolt

Quote from: sickboybg on October 19, 2008, 21:25:32
sometimes when i;m drunk ill start analysing  :D
up to now ill limit with saying only that ive spent hours and hours wondering why it is called homesick as Robert has the 'desire to never go home again'

No, Robert doesn't feel that desire in the song, he is only hoping that the person he is with will inspire that desire in him...

jbud1980

Quote from: revolt on October 20, 2008, 11:30:53
Quote from: sickboybg on October 19, 2008, 21:25:32
sometimes when i;m drunk ill start analysing  :D
up to now ill limit with saying only that ive spent hours and hours wondering why it is called homesick as Robert has the 'desire to never go home again'

No, Robert doesn't feel that desire in the song, he is only hoping that the person he is with will inspire that desire in him...

how exactly do you know what robert was thinking when he wrote this song? to assume makes an ass out of u & me.

MeltingMan

Quote from: sickboybg on October 19, 2008, 21:25:32
but that's being homesick actually...wanting to never return...to stop missing home...one of the most painful experiences one can suffer is being away from home...only once who have been ripped from the place where even walls have sentimental value can understand
That's it.I remember the day when I walked with my father through the empty rooms
of a house-OUR house and I found it hard to imagine that I lived there for sixteen years.
It was so strange and I felt relieved when we left it.I couldn't believe that this house was my...home.
En cette nation [Russie] qui n'a pas eu de théoriciens et de démagogues,
les pires ferments de destruction ont apparu. (J. Péladan)