The CDs: orginals & remasters

Oso Blanco · April 05, 2007, 07:40:20

Quote from: Janko on April 04, 2007, 23:07:42
WELL THEORETICALLY ORIGINALS ARE FAR MORE VALUABLE THAN REISSUES.
ORIGINALS ARE TRUE ARTEFACTS.
THE STUFF YOU KEEP FOREVER (OR SELL IN 20 YEARS FOR A FAST BUCK)...

REISSUES HAVE BETTER SOUND BUT THEY HAVE NO SENTIMENTAL VALUE...
SO IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO LISTEN TO REISSUES IN THE CAR, WHILE KEEPING THE ORIGINALS IN THE VAULT SOMEWHERE...

I agree. Since the original CDs will soon be unavailable, I would never ever use them in a car or put them in any other danger. Actually, I would never use ANY CD in a car ... that's what CD-Rs are for!

strange_day · April 05, 2007, 13:02:23

Quote from: Oso Blanco on April 04, 2007, 21:36:36
Quote from: japanesebaby on April 04, 2007, 21:26:18
@farquad: i'd say just see you don't go and buy the old CD pressing. if you don't want the 2 cd deluxe remaster then just go and buy the re-issued version without the bonus disc.

And that's really the worst part of it. The old CDs are slowly going out of print, so that very soon those butchered versions of The Weedy Burton and Shake Dog Shage will be the only versions officially available!

I actually thought the re-mastered version of The Top was the best, Shake Dog Shake sounds brilliant........the older versions sound much more muffled in comparison....just my thoughts....

Steve · April 05, 2007, 14:11:22

I still hold onto the old ones, but I don't listen to them anymore.
I do think that 17 seconds got some special attention though. The original CD was virtually "dead" compared to the vinyl (may as well have been a machine). The re-issue seems to be more believable, almost as if it was flawed deliberately to make it so.
However, the re-issues are still no way near as good as the vinyl (IMHO).
I would be very interested to hear a DSD transfer of the re-issues on SACD though.

rjl · April 05, 2007, 17:15:28

I'm going to have to snag a copy of 17 Seconds on vinyl from ebay.

As I said above (and in total agreement with others), the first CD version was just gross/cold/dead/flat. The re-issue was everything I'd hoped it would be.

I can't wait to dust off the turntable, now.

Janko · April 05, 2007, 20:26:19

THE QUESTION I'M INTERESTED IS:

WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO IN 15 YEARS WHEN 'UNIVERSAL' OR WHOEVER'S IN CHARGE PUTS OUT ANOTHER "SPECIAL", "REMASTERED", OR "COLLECTOR'S" REISSUE OF ALL ALBUMS...

AND THEN AGAIN IN 20 YEARS AND THEN AGAIN IN 25...

ITS LIKE - CCA 250 EURO'S EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS!

THERE'S A SCAM!!!

rjl · April 05, 2007, 21:25:10

As long as there's some noticeable improvement to the sound (although, what more can they really do at this point?), I'd buy it. Call me an idiot, but as long as its new product, than sure, go ahead. No one's making you buy it, after all.

As far as the re-issues go, however, the Cure has, so far, done a better job than most bands. There's slick packaging, a nice booklet, in some cases a real improvement in sound, and a second disc packed to the gills with unreleased material.

When they released a Greatest Hits package, they also released a second disc full of acoustic arrangements.

And let's not forget Join The Dots... four attractively packaged discs, with a slick book of commentary and photos, packed full of b-sides and unreleased material, a lot of which not available on CD until then.

Most bands/labels tend to phone this kind of stuff in. Maybe give you an extra track or two. Or maybe a DVD with two videos. Or even just the same batch of songs with little to no discernible improvement.

There are far worse offenders than Cure here: that stupid Nirvana "hits" package that you had to buy to get the one new track and the Depeche Mode re-issues come to mind.

If this is a total cash-grab, it's one of the most benign I've seen. Some work went into these releases.

Besides, isn't it nice to see some new Cure product on the market, instead of having to wait a few years in between albums? It makes the wait a lot more bearable. And it's not like they are over saturating things, either.

I hope didn't come across too strong -- or as too much of a blind Robert apologist. I'm just thrilled by these releases, and have been as excited about these as I am a new album. In fact, I think I was more excited about hearing a decent 17 Seconds, and the bonus discs for The Top & KMKMKM (sigh), than I've been for a new album.

I think the Cure fans have it pretty good.

Oso Blanco · April 05, 2007, 23:14:23

Quote from: strange_day on April 05, 2007, 13:02:23
I actually thought the re-mastered version of The Top was the best, Shake Dog Shake sounds brilliant........the older versions sound much more muffled in comparison....just my thoughts....

It may sound better, but the fact that "Shake Dog Shake" is cut at the beginning completely ruins it for me.

rjl · April 06, 2007, 00:04:52

Maybe the missing few seconds will be a bonus track on a future release. Or maybe a fan club 7" with the rest of The Weedy Burton as the b-side

Seriously, though, it's a poor start to a great album (IMO), with a great intro song (pretty much an indis****ble fact

). I wonder if anyone has written to Rhino and told them that they are, in essence, defective. I doubt that they have any control over the mastering process (I plead ignorance, however), but I imagine that if their name is on the product, it's a good place to start with complaints, and see where it ends up.

When the 5.1 version of the Flaming Lips' "The Soft Bulletin" album was accidentally released with the wrong version of the CD portion of the release, people were able to send it back for a replacement. Of course, the Lips went overboard, and apparently some people received handwritten apologies from their bassist, and Wayne offered to personally apologize to people at one point. They're cool like that.

Some versions of an old Foetus CD were susceptible to CD rot, and replacements were issued for those with afflicted discs.

Some pressing of a Skinny Puppy (I believe) compilation came labeled and packaged as such, but was actually an acoustic/folk record, I think. Again, replacements.

So recognition of a mistake and replacement of a defective release are not without precedent...

There are others that I am not thinking of at the moment...

I dunno... just rambling.

Janko · April 06, 2007, 13:57:22

THE ANOTHER ISSUE I HAVE WITH REISSUES IS THE PROBLEM WITH NEW BANDS

THE CURE REISSUES ARE GREAT AND I THINK THAT WITH SUPERB SOUND AND BONUS CD OD UNRELEASED MATERIAL THE CURE SETS THE STANDARDS FOR ALL BANDS!

WHO COULD EVER THINK OD ADDING BONUS UNPLUGGED HITS CD TO SOME STUFF THAT MOSTLY TURNS OUT LIKE "HASTLY COBBLED FOR A FAST BUCK" CD?! ROBERT IS A GENIUS!

BUT

INSTEAD BUYING A CD BY SOME NEW BAND PEOPLE ARE OPTING FOR REISSUES OF STUFF THEY ALREADY HAVE...

IMAGINE IF IN 1981 PEOPLE OPTED FOR A REISSUE OF SOME CRAP CD BY "EMERSON LAKE AND PALMER" INSTEAD OF CURE'S "FAITH" !

I REECKON ITS BETTER TO BUY AND SUPPORT YOUNG BANDS THAT HAVE THEIR FIRST CD IN THE MARKET...

rjl · April 06, 2007, 16:10:22

Who's to say you can't buy both? Or to tell you which one to buy? If you'd prefer to support younger or local artist, then by all means, do it...

It's all about choice. And the concept of opportunity cost: what is forsaken/forgone by making a decision. Such it life.

Besides, if ELP stole sales from the Cure (however unlikely) is it really their fault? I understand your reasoning (esp. when I look at my shelf and see how many of my Cranes discs could have easily been discs from other artists), but it's a choice I made.

There are plenty of artists whom I don't collect every single rarity and re-issue (including the Cure, to some extent), and I spend that money on other artists.

Besides, I don't think any band has any responsibility towards other bands and their success. They may do favors (bringing a smaller band that they love on tour as a support act), but they certainly don't have to...

Now, when they do the opposite and screw with each other (e.g. the Red Hot Chili Peppers and the crap they pulled on Mr. Bungle years ago), that's pretty lame.

rjl · April 06, 2007, 17:02:27

Along a similar vein, what does get me are the multi-part singles. Lush, another favorite of mine, are total culprits when it comes to this. Well, 4AD, really. Instead of 2 singles with 4 tracks, 1 of which spent on the song itself (so technically 2 tracks spent on 1 song), why not just condense it all into an EP... Price it a little higher than a single, and you'd probably make more money, as you only need to manufacture, package and truck around half as many discs.

But that's totally straying from the topic at hand at this point.

Dillinger · April 06, 2007, 19:48:22

i bought the glove reissue yesterday and am pleased with it even if it was stupidly priced. IMO blue sunshine is fantastic and the extra disc just makes it even better.

i plan on getting the kiss me one soon because its cheaper for some reason and i dont listen to it too much on vinyl because its so long. i disagree about buying reissues stifles young bands, lately ive been buying older bands and thats it. for example my next order is going to be kiss me, a beach boys album and joy division surely by janko's logic this is as bad as buying 3 reissues.at the end of the day i just prefer finding older bands to hear for the first time rather than new ones because most of them simply arent as good and i would rather further my musical knowledge of the past

japanesebaby · April 07, 2007, 11:15:06

Quote from: farquad92 on April 06, 2007, 19:48:22
i bought the glove reissue yesterday and am pleased with it even if it was stupidly priced. IMO blue sunshine is fantastic and the extra disc just makes it even better.

i plan on getting the kiss me one soon because its cheaper for some reason and i dont listen to it too much on vinyl because its so long. i disagree about buying reissues stifles young bands, lately ive been buying older bands and thats it. for example my next order is going to be kiss me, a beach boys album and joy division surely by janko's logic this is as bad as buying 3 reissues.at the end of the day i just prefer finding older bands to hear for the first time rather than new ones because most of them simply arent as good and i would rather further my musical knowledge of the past

about blue sunshine: the bonus disc for that one is definitely one of the all bonus discs that i've listened to most. i've surprised myself with this too. i could never really stand the howling woman's singing so i never listened to that album a lot. i liked to music but i couldn't stand the way they were interpreted vocal-wise - because there was hardly no interpretation there. :roll:
it's completely silly that robert likes to claim they are 'demos' since they are clearly very recent - anyway, i haven't let that bother me simply because i've noticed that i've so truly enjoyed it, finally hearing these songs done properly! i don't really care when they were recorded - although bogus info IS bogus info... hmmm. anyway, to me it's pretty marvellous - definitely worth a purchase for anyone!

about reissues in general:
sometimes it's a rip-off, sometimes it's not: anyway i agree that old fans can choose whether or not to buy the new re-releases. nobody's forcing you. then again these can be important for newer fans, people still at the process of finding things, getting to know them. there's no harm done in updating the releases every once in a while. i think it's pretty easy to notice whether it's been done with this sincere idea or whether it's just a record label trying to profit a bit more. and accordingly, everyone can choose whether to buy or not.

i also tend to buy quite a lot old music. most of "new" albums that i get are actually pretty old. i'm terminally behind with most of the new music all the time. i'm faintly aware of things when they come out but still i very often "find" things only years after they were first released. and often regardless of whether they were originally hyped a lot or not. i guess it's unintentional and it's intentional from my part: i could say i simply don't have time to follow everything, i'm too slow to catch up with it all when it's happening. but at least part of it deals with preferring to find things at my own pace, when it suits me. to get to know things when it feels like showing green light to this or that and not when someone's constantly telling me "you've got to listen to this, this is amazing, whooa!!" etc.
so, what comes to the older groups, i think i generally do appreciate re-issues - there's just so much music out there waiting to be found! and since the art of audio mastering has improved since early days so why not use that knowledge and update the releases?

Oso Blanco · April 07, 2007, 11:30:09

Quote from: japanesebaby on April 07, 2007, 11:15:06
and since the art of audio mastering has improved since early days so why not use that knowledge and update the releases?

I wish they would make use of of this "new and improved art of audio mastering". But sadly, most remasters are just louder and maybe treated with an equalizer, and that's it. In many cases, I find the old versions better sounding than the new ones. Especially when the "remastered" versions have the "clipping problem".

japanesebaby · April 07, 2007, 11:57:14

Quote from: Oso Blanco on April 07, 2007, 11:30:09
Quote from: japanesebaby on April 07, 2007, 11:15:06
and since the art of audio mastering has improved since early days so why not use that knowledge and update the releases?

I wish they would make use of of this "new and improved art of audio mastering". But sadly, most remasters are just louder and maybe treated with an equalizer, and that's it. In many cases, I find the old versions better sounding than the new ones. Especially when the "remastered" versions have the "clipping problem".

hehe i already knew you'd say that.

of course, i should have added "as long as it's done properly" - and most of the time it clearly isn't, that's no secret. and it's certainly annoying in many cases. yet the hope remains someone somewhere has the knowledge, skill, taste and understanding and these people do it right every once in a while... so not all remasters are doomed.

but the volume boost phenomenon is ridiculous for sure, especially when some "professional" people somewhere are just displaying their sheer stupidity while taking it up to the point of clipping.
it seems to be a global phenomenon though, nothing new. someone somewhere said that in today's world it's
"not about the subject matter of your message anymore but simply about who shouts out loudest, regardless of whether he/she had anything to say".
so just be obnoxious, arrogant and especially as loud as possible - those seems to be the key words to "success" these days. :(