Useless discussion about poetry, pop music, etc. etc.

Started by Oneiroman, May 10, 2021, 14:46:23

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Oneiroman

#15
@SueC I apologise for confusing your remarks with Ulrich's.  I'm not suggesting either that anyone shouldn't enjoy an artist's work because they disagree with his or her political beliefs or lifestyle, but I was simply pointing out that Yeats was deeply attracted to fascism, as were many others at the time such as Pound, Eliot, Wyndham Lewis etc.  I just happen to find Baudelaire, who was no saint, more enjoyable and a superior poet to Yeats, whose unpleasant interest in the occult sadly infects a lot of his writing. 

I quite frankly find Ulrich's comments offensive as he doesn't seem bothered to check the facts before he wades in  to try and intimidate the contributors to this forum.  He says that it is "ridiculous" (with an exclamation mark!) of me to say that I hadn't read Orwell's remarks before I made my original comment about Yeats.  He might be ignorant about that particular Irishman, but I wasn't, and there are many other sources online and elsewhere that discuss his political views; the Orwell quote was genuinely new to me, and pertinent because it linked Yeats' authoritarian politics to his interest in Hermetic matters.  And I'm quite flabbergasted to see that Ulrich equates being a hashish smoking dandy to being a fascist.  Each to their own I suppose. 

Ulrich

Quote from: Oneiroman on May 18, 2021, 23:40:13He might be ignorant about that particular Irishman, but I wasn't, and there are many other sources online and elsewhere that discuss his political views

How should I know?
Then you could've shared one of those instead of pointing out you hadn't read that one...

Quote from: Oneiroman on May 18, 2021, 23:40:13to see that Ulrich equates being a hashish smoking dandy to being a fascist.

I did not. As I said it was an example of how easy it is these days to find anything about anyone whose poetry you might happen not to like.
You do know what an example is?  :?

Once more: TONE IT DOWN!
A shallow grave
a monument to the ruined age

Ulrich

Something to think about for anyone who reads this thread:

QuoteWhen we slot figures neatly onto the plinths of our national pantheon, the heroic status we make often require some scrubbing before they are fit to be viewed by the public. Figures of national renown are scrubbed clean of their more radical thoughts- Martin Luther King Jr's avowed leftism for example- in order to turn them into saints with simple stories who we can praise without wrestling with complex ideological questions.

Fascism today is an ideological bogeyman, a word that conjures images of some of the most brutal regimes to ever wield an iron fist over countries and peoples; images of purges and secret police and genocide. Yeats lived at the dawn of the 20th century when Fascism had none of the grime and bloodstains that it wears now and when it seemed to many like an ascendant utopian ideology that would defend countries from the evils of modern decay and act as a bulwark against the spectre of communist regimes.

Yeat's closest intellectual peers, modernists such as Ezra Pound and TS Eliot, were no strangers to fascist sympathising and Pound especially was well known for his extolling the virtues of Mussolini's fascist regime in Italy even up to the end of the second world war when the horrors of fascism had been laid bare for the world. For a  young, romantic, nationalist like Yeats, Fascism with its talk of the "national spirit" and "national myths", would of course hold a great deal of appeal.

https://www.headstuff.org/culture/literature/yeats-and-fascism/
A shallow grave
a monument to the ruined age

Oneiroman

#18
@SueC Can you explain to me the import of this personal message from Ulrich?:

I would ask him but I don't seem to be able to get any sense from the man.  And I don't like dealing with people who justify fascists as he did in his last post.

Ulrich

Quote from: Oneiroman on May 19, 2021, 23:12:11@SueC Can you explain to me the import of this personal message from Ulrich?:

I would ask him but I don't seem to be able to get any sense from the man.  And I don't like dealing with people who justify fascists as he did in his last post.

Sue won't explain this, as a "private message" means that it's private, eh?

Last warning: I did NOT justify fascists, I only shared an article. STOP such accusations in this forum immediately! (Yes that is an exclamation mark.)

EDIT: Topic unlocked
A shallow grave
a monument to the ruined age

dsanchez

Quote from: Oneiroman on May 19, 2021, 23:12:11I would ask him but I don't seem to be able to get any sense from the man.  And I don't like dealing with people who justify fascists as he did in his last post.

From our forum rules:

QuoteWhile debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.

http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=4197.0

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