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Started by Steve, April 08, 2007, 08:56:52

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Quote from: japanesebaby on January 20, 2009, 23:42:10
anyway, regardless of whether or not one liked new order/mr. sumner, i think the song is an obvious JD re-make/rip-off. therefore perhaps not a very original one.


You might be right. And maybe Blue Monday is a little bit of a theft from A Forest. But I kinda like New Order anyway. But it is like it is with taste in music. It´s personal and one kinda like to think that ones own taste is immaculate and flawless. But naturally I didn´t think for one moment that You critizised our liking in NO.

C l t: Split Enz - Parrot Fashion Love
again and again and again and again and again and...

japanesebaby

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on January 20, 2009, 23:14:22
to me 'temptation' is just a cheap re-make/rip-off of a certain joy division song.
:roll: they just speeded it up (and added less intelligent/interesting lyrics, as it always goes with new order).
never cared about new order - and like i might have said elsewhere, sumner's "singing" makes me want to tear my hair... i respect his input and all he contributed in JD, but as a singer he simply is totally talentless.


which one? just curious...

I find that song awesome. This is one of the songs I listened in loop (maybe like 30 or 40 times yesterday). I think is the greatest new order song and love the line "I think tonight I walk alone, find my soul go back home"

I have to disagree about the "uninteresting lyrics" lyrics thing. No way this can be "less intelligent"?:

"I would like a place I could call my own
Have a conversation on the telephone
Wake up every day that would be a start
I would not complain of my wounded heart" (Regret)

Sure JD had influenced many bands, but personally I never liked Ian's voice. Love the drums, the bass, the guitarrs (of course, lyrics too). Still, I prefer the voice of Bernard, and the sound of this awesome band, New Order :)

Well, in music people will never agree, so that's just my view :D
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dsanchez

This is just perfection. A most recent version of "Temptation" in high quality

New Order - Temptation (Finsbury Park, 2002)

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dsanchez

By the way, just noticed Peter Hook using the same bass Simon did during the Wish Tour :smth023
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crowbi_wan

Keeping the New Order train a rollin'...sort of.

N.W.O.

:rocker

japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on January 21, 2009, 10:27:37
Quote from: japanesebaby on January 20, 2009, 23:14:22
to me 'temptation' is just a cheap re-make/rip-off of a certain joy division song.
:roll: they just speeded it up (and added less intelligent/interesting lyrics, as it always goes with new order).
never cared about new order - and like i might have said elsewhere, sumner's "singing" makes me want to tear my hair... i respect his input and all he contributed in JD, but as a singer he simply is totally talentless.


which one? just curious...


well i think it should be pretty easy to spot if you listen to JD... ;)

Quote from: dsanchez on January 21, 2009, 10:27:37
No way this can be "less intelligent"?:

"I would like a place I could call my own
Have a conversation on the telephone
Wake up every day that would be a start
I would not complain of my wounded heart" (Regret)


uuuhh no offense david but seriously, are you sure you were not trying to pick one of the most embarrassing pieces of NO lyrics there? :eek:
-> http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,3438.msg22878.html#msg22878
(i have to agree with caley there)

i do think those "telephone" lyrics are almost too embarrassing/unintelligent to be true, to have been written by someone in a serious manner (especially someone who's a native english speaker).


sumner simply cannot sing. i know some other singers who actually sing out of tune a lot of times but they still sound great and charismatic etc. - so it's that i'm bothered by him missing a note here or there. but in fact, he's missing most of the notes all the time and in a pretty dreadful fashion, and in the end his out-of-tuneishness and constant wobblyness is real pain. he simply cannot control his voice, his vocal parts are full of uncontrollable bumps and shifts that no singer should get away with. for a life of me i cannot understand why they didn't get a proper singer.
(and by the way, i'm not a huge JD fan either so it's not an JD vs. NO thing for me. NO is just such an amazing combination of great potential ruined by an amateurish vocalist crooning over it all that i've always found it almost shocking.)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

japanesebaby

for me 'technique' is perhaps the most bearable NO album. i don't like it (actually i think it's pretty tedious), but at least they are at their farest from JD there which is a sort of relief. 
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on January 21, 2009, 18:33:49
uuuhh no offense david but seriously, are you sure you were not trying to pick one of the most embarrassing pieces of NO lyrics there? :eek:
-> http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,3438.msg22878.html#msg22878
(i have to agree with caley there)
i do think those "telephone" lyrics are almost too embarrassing/unintelligent to be true, to have been written by someone in a serious manner (especially someone who's a native english speaker).


Do lyrics need to be complex in order to be good? I just see it as someone who wants to have a simple life, maybe someone who does not worry about important things. That song makes me happy and that's all what counts for me :)

I mean, tastes are tastes, points of views are different and that's what makes the world an interesting place.

Now ladies and gentleman, currently listening ;)

New Order - Regret

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japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on January 21, 2009, 19:10:31
Do lyrics need to be complex in order to be good? I just see it as someone who wants to have a simple life, maybe someone who does not worry about important things.


i didn't say the lyrics for 'regret' are crap lyrics because they talk about having a simple life. and neither did i say anything about complex lyrics in general being better than others (or complex subjects). simplicity is beautiful, true - but there is simplicity and simplicity.
the lyrics for 'regret' are simply quite clumsy and the imagery used to describe this simple life is a bit too... simple (but that doesn't mean the idea to describe simple life was dumb - it's not). i mean, "have a conversation on a telephone" - i think it's fair to expect a little bit more effort from whoever it was putting those lyrics together.
that clumsiness make them sound like an unintentional joke and i cannot take them seriously anymore.


ps. david, can you teach us mortals how to embed videos? ;)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on January 21, 2009, 19:28:39
i mean, "have a conversation on a telephone" - i think it's fair to expect a little bit more effort from whoever it was putting those lyrics together.
that clumsiness make them sound like an unintentional joke and i cannot take them seriously anymore.


That's why the world is great, because you think that way, and lot of NO fans think otherwise. That's rich about humankind, that we can always have our point of view, and "having a conversation in the telephone" can be so meaningful as a J.P. Sartre phrasre, depending the context, and of course, depending the reader/listener ;)

Quote from: japanesebaby on January 21, 2009, 19:28:39
ps. david, can you teach us mortals how to embed videos? ;)


At the moment only admins can do this :(
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japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on January 21, 2009, 19:33:55
can be so meaningful as a J.P. Sartre phrasre


just for the record, i wasn't comparing NO lyrics to sartre or any other literature.
so i am not trying to come across with a message that some "hi-class" literature is always more valuable than something less so. if that's what you are trying to say.
it's not "this vs. that" kind of thing to me. i don't care about such things, really.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

crowbi_wan

I was trying to remember Caley's comments about those lines from 'Regret'.

While they certainly are not great lyrics, I've always looked at them as someone who doesn't want to live the in the spot light.  Like David put it,  a "simple life".  Yes, Sumner could have painted us a better picture there.  But I wouldn't call the lyrics dumb or embarrassing.

And as far as New Order sounding like some Joy Division stuff, it's not uncommon for this sort of thing to happen.  Bands copy their own material all of the time.  Take The Cure.  alt. end/In Your House and The Walk/Never Enough are only a few.  Some bands find a formula or chord progression that works and just stick with it (Linkin Park, AC/DC).  It's not very original.  But hey, you can only piece together notes together in so many ways and play them at X amount of rhythms before they start sounding like something that's been done before.  Should that be considered plagiarism?  Well, let's see what a jury has to say about that (in reference to Coldplay ripping off Joe Satriani).     

fiction

Oingo Boingo - Sweat, from their wonderfully dancefriendly album "Good for Your Soul". Up and dance!
again and again and again and again and again and...

crowbi_wan