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Other => Technical stuff => Topic started by: Matti on February 06, 2009, 11:01:04

Title: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on February 06, 2009, 11:01:04
Quote from: chipdandy on February 06, 2009, 10:46:03I would die if i could get my hands on a Fender Bass VI...

I've searched the internet for any kind of bass that comes anywhere close to it, and i got nothing...guess im gonna have to fork out the money..

No need for going as far as that - have You ever tried looking for a Schecter Hellcat VI? And this (http://www.musicportal.org/forum/showpost.php?p=7462&postcount=2) might be helpful as well...
Title: Re: Lost Flowers!!!
Post by: lostflower4 on February 06, 2009, 12:24:06
Quote from: Matti on February 06, 2009, 10:14:12...and isn't LF4 an alternate version of To Wish Impossible Things (chords and song structure are very similar)?

Hmmm... In all these years that never even crossed my mind. Maybe a tiny tiny bit, but I wouldn't consider these songs related.


Quote from: Matti on February 06, 2009, 11:01:04
Quote from: chipdandy on February 06, 2009, 10:46:03I would die if i could get my hands on a Fender Bass VI...

I've searched the internet for any kind of bass that comes anywhere close to it, and i got nothing...guess im gonna have to fork out the money..

No need for going as far as that - have You ever tried looking for a Schecter Hellcat VI? And this (http://www.musicportal.org/forum/showpost.php?p=7462&postcount=2) might be helpful as well...

But I think it's been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Schechters sound NOTHING like the classic Fenders?  Just listen to live versions of Pictures of You  from 2004 onward, for example. That weak and totally dry sound drives me nuts. I really wish they'd stop playing that song!  :twisted:

Although I will admit that the sound isn't all in the guitar (or should I say bass), because even by 2000 Robert's Bass VI sound had taken a turn for the worse. I think he had the perfect sound in 1992, and it stayed similar until about 1996. But by 2000-2002 it just started sounding really dry and bland, even though he was still using Fenders (just listen to Trilogy, where that classic sound was "slightly important"). So apparently he changed something else in his rig.  :?

Your best bet for a "discount" :lol: version of the Bass VI would be to buy a used custom shop version somewhere like eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280301398352


Ok, not exactly cheap. But the early '60s models like Robert used will often fetch twice as much, or even more — even if they're not in the greatest condition.  :shock:  And as far as I know, these custom shop re-issues are virtually identical to the best vintage ones.

Although there was a guy on eBay a few months ago who was selling a black '62 model with a red pickguard that looked EXACTLY like the one Robert used live in the late '80s/early '90s. The guy who was selling it had it refinished from sunburst color to black. And technically, doing something like that devalues the instrument quite a bit. But for me personally, I don't like the sunburst color as it's way too common — and as I said the black model looked exactly like Robert's. I don't think the guy ended up selling it, but I remember the auction being for around $2000-2500, which is a great deal for a pre-CBS vintage model!

The Japanese Bass VI re-issues from the mid-'90s can be had for quite a bit less, but they don't sound the same as the American vintage or custom shop models. A lot of it has to do with the cheaper and lighter wood of the body (basswood instead of alder). Even Robert once commented in an interview that these don't sound like the original, and that the sound of the midrange was totally different.

I had a chance to play one of the Japanese re-issues in a music store many years ago, but I never even plugged it in — so I can't really give any personal opinion on it, except that it "looked cool".

One thing that may get you "close" would be a Danelectro baritone:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Danelectro-Baritone-Guitar-Bass-Case-No-Reserve-Black_W0QQitemZ170298928678QQcmdZ


I bought one of these several years ago just to get some kind of baritone guitar. No, it's not exactly the same sound as a Fender, nor is the design very similar, but it's still pretty cool. I think I got mine for about $250 new, but strangely these things skyrocketed in value a few years ago, apparently because they were limited in production. I saw a used one sell for over $450, so I'm really curious how this auction will turn out.

Anyway, good luck finding something!
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: Matti on February 06, 2009, 12:38:14
Quote from: lostflower4 on February 06, 2009, 12:24:06But I think it's been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Schechters sound NOTHING like the classic Fenders?  Just listen to live versions of Pictures of You  from 2004 onward, for example. [...]

Although I will admit that the sound isn't all in the guitar (or should I say bass), because even by 2000 Robert's Bass VI sound had taken a turn for the worse. I think he had the perfect sound in 1992, and it stayed similar until about 1996. But by 2000-2002 it just started sounding really dry and bland, even though he was still using Fenders (just listen to Trilogy, where that classic sound was "slightly important"). So apparently he changed something else in his rig.

I think what Robert changed ever since 2002 is the pickup setting on his VIs (regardless of brand). He used to use the neck pickup until then, and then it seemed that he chose to use a neck and mid/dridge PU contellation. And I believe that Robert't Ultra Baritone has got humbuckers instead of single coils, which altogether alters the sound radically (and not for the better as I must agree).

The Hellcat VI has specs almost identical to the Fender VI - differences are the stop tailpiece (tune-o-matic bridge) and mini humbuckers that can be split globally so that they sound and work exactly like single coils. I've never touched one of the originals, but I've been playing a Hellcat VI for years and I can tell you the sound is fantastic and highly authentic - no comparison to the 2002 onwards POY sound...
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: lostflower4 on February 07, 2009, 05:42:38
Quote from: Matti on February 06, 2009, 12:38:14
Quote from: lostflower4 on February 06, 2009, 12:24:06But I think it's been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Schechters sound NOTHING like the classic Fenders?  Just listen to live versions of Pictures of You  from 2004 onward, for example. [...]

Although I will admit that the sound isn't all in the guitar (or should I say bass), because even by 2000 Robert's Bass VI sound had taken a turn for the worse. I think he had the perfect sound in 1992, and it stayed similar until about 1996. But by 2000-2002 it just started sounding really dry and bland, even though he was still using Fenders (just listen to Trilogy, where that classic sound was "slightly important"). So apparently he changed something else in his rig.

I think what Robert changed ever since 2002 is the pickup setting on his VIs (regardless of brand). He used to use the neck pickup until then, and then it seemed that he chose to use a neck and mid/dridge PU contellation. And I believe that Robert't Ultra Baritone has got humbuckers instead of single coils, which altogether alters the sound radically (and not for the better as I must agree).

The Hellcat VI has specs almost identical to the Fender VI - differences are the stop tailpiece (tune-o-matic bridge) and mini humbuckers that can be split globally so that they sound and work exactly like single coils. I've never touched one of the originals, but I've been playing a Hellcat VI for years and I can tell you the sound is fantastic and highly authentic - no comparison to the 2002 onwards POY sound...

Hmmm... I would have guessed that Robert used the bridge pickup for his Bass VI in the old days, as that side tends to get a more trebly and edgy sound. Because after that it sounded more dull and rounded, which would be more characteristic of a middle/neck pickup. However, I am very confused by the switching system on the Bass VI. Aren't there all kinds of weird configurations you can make there?  :smth017

By the way, I really didn't know much about Schechter baritones — except that I hate Robert's sound. Anymore when I hear the word "Schechter", I start to see red flags.  :lol:

I didn't realize there were different models with different configurations, so perhaps I spoke too soon there...

However, there is also this — which is supposedly very close to the Fender Bass VI:

http://www.stylesmusic.com/shop/product_view.asp?storeID=XB3NVR9BHRQL8PMCAKWR025WE41SF4AA&menu=&seg=0&c0=2&type=Instruments&pr=9923&priv=0

http://www.stylesmusic.com/shop/product_view.asp?storeID=XB3NVR9BHRQL8PMCAKWR025WE41SF4AA&menu=&seg=0&c0=2&type=Instruments&pr=9924&priv=0


(not sure what the difference is between the two, besides the price)

Although I never thought Perry really captured the classic Cure sound with this... But maybe it was just him/his equipment and not the instrument itself?

The upside down headstock is a bit weird too. I guess they were going for a lefty look with a right-handed guitar?  :?
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: crowbi_wan on February 07, 2009, 10:55:29
One thing Robert has changed in his Bass VI sound is he's not running through a Peavy cab (4 x 12) any longer.  Not sure when or why he stopped.  :smth017 I didn't see one in '04, nor any show after.  I believe he had a dedicated Boss CH-1 taped to it and ran straight to that, bypassing his main pedal board.  He once described that sound as perfect, like a cello.  Perfect?  I agree.  :smth023  Hook that shit back up, Robert! 
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: Chain Of Flowers on February 12, 2009, 10:57:07
QuoteBy the way, I really didn't know much about Schechter baritones — except that I hate Robert's sound. Anymore when I hear the word "Schechter", I start to see red flags. 

I have to agree!  I wish he'd stop playing those awful Schechters.  The Cure really have lost their classic sound, and I really think it is a shame.  I know that people argue that times change and move on etc, but why stop doing what they do best if it really works?

A lot of that baritone sound is all over Disintegration, and I really love it.  I also really love listening to Entreat, the sound of that live gig was absolutely amazing, with the version of Disingegration being better than the original recording IMO.

Going off topic here, sorry...    ;)
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: Matti on February 12, 2009, 11:16:31
Why not continue the discussion in the Technical Stuff subforum (and get this threat back to its original topic)? I'd love to go on a little about technical aspects of Cure music/sound and we do seem to have a lot of musicians here.
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: chipdandy on February 13, 2009, 11:44:23
sorry, the topic did make a turn. My fault. :)
Title: lost flowers spin-off: guitar talk
Post by: chipdandy on February 13, 2009, 11:49:09
Just checked out the "technical" forum...its all about flacs and rars and cpu data.
Title: Re: lost flowers spin-off: guitars
Post by: japanesebaby on February 13, 2009, 12:07:18
Quote from: chipdandy on February 13, 2009, 11:49:09
Just checked out the "technical" forum...its all about flacs and rars and cpu data.

tech section is about anything technical, not just all that. there just wasn't anything there to be found yet because the topic hadn't been split just yet.

the topic's been split now (thanks Matti for a suggestion).
a bit randomly named for the time being but that can be changed later.

Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on February 14, 2009, 15:43:39
Here's a 1962 Fender Bass VI for sale. Like I said, these go for crazy prices even if their not in the best condition.  :shock:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220360985648


I'm quite sure Robert's dark one (as seen in Play Out, Show, etc.) was a '62 model. This was made just before CBS corporation bought out Fender, which caused the quality of everything to go downhill after that — so this is really one of the ideal years to have.

(Fortunately, a group of people bought Fender back from CBS in 1985 and the quality of their stuff got better again.)

But still, I think the only authentic "Cure-like" models of the Bass VI were made around 1961-1964, or more recently by the Custom Shop.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: chipdandy on February 17, 2009, 02:29:48
so hot.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on March 06, 2009, 18:52:55
Is it just me or do these Bass VIs get more expensive every day?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200317175421


Ok, there's just NO WAY this is going to sell. What kind of item description is that?  :oops:

(looks pretty beat up, too) 
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on May 31, 2009, 05:00:02
10 g's
what a bargain
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Fender-Bass-VI-1961_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a1b0ffc7QQitemZ230345998279QQptZGuitarQQsalenotsupported

i wish i got one of these years ago when they were cheaper.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on June 01, 2009, 18:06:42
Quote from: sullen on May 31, 2009, 05:00:02
10 g's
what a bargain
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Fender-Bass-VI-1961_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a1b0ffc7QQitemZ230345998279QQptZGuitarQQsalenotsupported

i wish i got one of these years ago when they were cheaper.

If you can't afford the whole guitar, why not just buy a pickguard?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110397270978

:eek:


Seriously though, I think the Custom Shop versions made in the past few years are just as good as the early '60s models (and probably in a lot better condition too). They can be had for under $2000 if you're lucky.

Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on June 02, 2009, 15:08:18
Quote from: lostflower4 on June 01, 2009, 18:06:42
Quote from: sullen on May 31, 2009, 05:00:02
10 g's
what a bargain
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Fender-Bass-VI-1961_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem35a1b0ffc7QQitemZ230345998279QQptZGuitarQQsalenotsupported

i wish i got one of these years ago when they were cheaper.

If you can't afford the whole guitar, why not just buy a pickguard?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110397270978

:eek:


Seriously though, I think the Custom Shop versions made in the past few years are just as good as the early '60s models (and probably in a lot better condition too). They can be had for under $2000 if you're lucky.



this sucks.
i had a 90s MIJ in good shape with upgraded pickups lined up to buy, but seller changed his mind, i honsetly don't blame him, i wouldn't sell it either.
really trying to avoid buying one sight unseen on ebay and so rare one comes on the market locally.

i'd spend 2k at this point, but all im seeing for the new ones is 3k.
they were like a bit over 2k in 07 but the initial bad reviews scared me off, and did not see any in stores, should've just grabbed one then.
should've got one in the 90s too!!

i have the jaguar vi now, it's nice, but all in all, it's not a vi.
the search continues!!!
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on June 02, 2009, 17:57:17
Quote from: sullen on June 02, 2009, 15:08:18this sucks.
i had a 90s MIJ in good shape with upgraded pickups lined up to buy, but seller changed his mind, i honsetly don't blame him, i wouldn't sell it either.
really trying to avoid buying one sight unseen on ebay and so rare one comes on the market locally.

i'd spend 2k at this point, but all im seeing for the new ones is 3k.
they were like a bit over 2k in 07 but the initial bad reviews scared me off, and did not see any in stores, should've just grabbed one then.
should've got one in the 90s too!!

i have the jaguar vi now, it's nice, but all in all, it's not a vi.
the search continues!!!

I've probably said this before, but I would avoid the Japanese version simply because the body is made of basswood, which has a completely different tonality than alder. Robert even said this after trying one of the MIJ models.

Basswood can be good for some guitars, but if you're after the ultimate Cure sound I think it's pretty important to keep this in mind.

I wouldn't be too hesitant to buy a Custom Shop version from a reputable seller on eBay, but then again maybe I'm just crazy.  :lol:

This must have been quite the steal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370183386336


I have a Winter 2006 price list that shows them going for $3600 new!

Funny how this used one (from a seller with zero feedback at the time) ended up selling for more:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250414903002

Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on June 03, 2009, 00:05:21
Quote from: lostflower4 on June 02, 2009, 17:57:17
Quote from: sullen on June 02, 2009, 15:08:18this sucks.
i had a 90s MIJ in good shape with upgraded pickups lined up to buy, but seller changed his mind, i honsetly don't blame him, i wouldn't sell it either.
really trying to avoid buying one sight unseen on ebay and so rare one comes on the market locally.

i'd spend 2k at this point, but all im seeing for the new ones is 3k.
they were like a bit over 2k in 07 but the initial bad reviews scared me off, and did not see any in stores, should've just grabbed one then.
should've got one in the 90s too!!

i have the jaguar vi now, it's nice, but all in all, it's not a vi.
the search continues!!!

I've probably said this before, but I would avoid the Japanese version simply because the body is made of basswood, which has a completely different tonality than alder. Robert even said this after trying one of the MIJ models.

Basswood can be good for some guitars, but if you're after the ultimate Cure sound I think it's pretty important to keep this in mind.

I wouldn't be too hesitant to buy a Custom Shop version from a reputable seller on eBay, but then again maybe I'm just crazy.  :lol:

This must have been quite the steal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370183386336


I have a Winter 2006 price list that shows them going for $3600 new!

Funny how this used one (from a seller with zero feedback at the time) ended up selling for more:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250414903002




That was a friggin steal!!!
I gotta start watching ebay more often.
musicians friend had them for like either 2200 or 2400 at first.
there was a few bad reviews, decided not to buy one,
got the jaguar vi instead at that point as those were still being sold and they were only 700.
now the reviews are good and the prices are all 3k.
im happy with the jag vi but still want a bass vi.
i gotta keep an eye out on ebay more often, just freaks me out buying gear, especially guitars, from just pictures.
under 2k for a like new minty vi cant go wrong tho!
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: crowbi_wan on June 03, 2009, 03:28:01
Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 00:05:21
just freaks me out buying gear, especially guitars, from just pictures.

Yep.  I bought an Black Epi Alley Kat a few years back.  Was told it was in perfect condition.  Pictures looked good.  After receiving it I noticed a chip in the body that had been filled in and painted.  :evil:  Not a huge deal since I only paid $300 for it and it sounds great (the NY mini is a sweet p/u).  Had that been on something like a Les Paul or Bass VI I would have gone ape shit.  And really, even if it looks alright, you still never know until you play the thing. 

     
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on June 03, 2009, 23:01:05
Quote from: crowbi_wan on June 03, 2009, 03:28:01
Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 00:05:21
just freaks me out buying gear, especially guitars, from just pictures.

Yep.  I bought an Black Epi Alley Kat a few years back.  Was told it was in perfect condition.  Pictures looked good.  After receiving it I noticed a chip in the body that had been filled in and painted.  :evil:  Not a huge deal since I only paid $300 for it and it sounds great (the NY mini is a sweet p/u).  Had that been on something like a Les Paul or Bass VI I would have gone ape shit.  And really, even if it looks alright, you still never know until you play the thing. 

     

That sucks, nice guitar though.
Things like that is exactly why I'm trying to avoid!!


How much would a repaint devalue a 60s model?
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on June 12, 2009, 02:59:42
Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 23:01:05
Quote from: crowbi_wan on June 03, 2009, 03:28:01
Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 00:05:21
just freaks me out buying gear, especially guitars, from just pictures.

Yep.  I bought an Black Epi Alley Kat a few years back.  Was told it was in perfect condition.  Pictures looked good.  After receiving it I noticed a chip in the body that had been filled in and painted.  :evil:  Not a huge deal since I only paid $300 for it and it sounds great (the NY mini is a sweet p/u).  Had that been on something like a Les Paul or Bass VI I would have gone ape shit.  And really, even if it looks alright, you still never know until you play the thing.  

   

That sucks, nice guitar though.
Things like that is exactly why I'm trying to avoid!!

Yeah, valid points. I've only gotten one mail order guitar before, and it turned out to be a good one. So perhaps I'm a bit too optimistic.

Even brand new guitars can vary quite a bit in quality. I remember visiting some random guitar shop in Los Angeles many years ago, and they had an amber Peavey EVH Wolfgang. It wasn't really my favorite color, but it must have been the best-playing guitar I have ever played in my life (it virtually played itself, it was so nice). I had played other Wolfgangs before, but none were quite like this.

It's a shame I wasn't in the market to buy one at the time, because when I decided to get one a year or so later I couldn't find one nearly this good at any of the local shops. So I ended up having a guitar custom built instead. Not saying I really regret that, but that Wolfgang I found in LA was one in a million!


Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 23:01:05How much would a repaint devalue a 60s model?

Quite a bit. I made reference to this in one of my earlier posts:

http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,5977.msg60654.html#msg60654


But I guess it doesn't matter if you don't plan on re-selling it.  ;)

And it may very well land you a good deal if you find one like this (again, see my previous post). One had just better make sure it's a good finishing job. Some people know what they're doing with this sort of thing, and some people don't! :!:

At any rate, I don't like the sunburst color on these guitars. It's a shame that 99% of them seem to have been made this way.   :?

I used to have a sunburst Jazzmaster, and I just never thought it looked very good...
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on July 07, 2009, 04:48:13
Here's something you almost never see, a 1970s model:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220445587493


I'd say this is way overpriced. Yes, it's "rare" but the quality of Fender stuff really suffered when they were owned by CBS corporation.


Quote from: sullen on June 03, 2009, 00:05:21
Quote from: lostflower4 on June 02, 2009, 17:57:17I wouldn't be too hesitant to buy a Custom Shop version from a reputable seller on eBay, but then again maybe I'm just crazy.  :lol:

This must have been quite the steal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370183386336


I have a Winter 2006 price list that shows them going for $3600 new!

Funny how this used one (from a seller with zero feedback at the time) ended up selling for more:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250414903002




That was a friggin steal!!!
I gotta start watching ebay more often.
musicians friend had them for like either 2200 or 2400 at first.
there was a few bad reviews, decided not to buy one,
got the jaguar vi instead at that point as those were still being sold and they were only 700.
now the reviews are good and the prices are all 3k.
im happy with the jag vi but still want a bass vi.
i gotta keep an eye out on ebay more often, just freaks me out buying gear, especially guitars, from just pictures.
under 2k for a like new minty vi cant go wrong tho!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290329326104

Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on July 07, 2009, 09:31:16
I'm not sure whether this is still on topic, butsince this is also about sound I thought I'd post something I've found in an old Magazine I stumbled over recently (Guitar Player April 2000) (http://www.musicfanclubs.org/cure/press/guitar_gardens.html). It's an interview in which Robert states the following:

QuoteI also used a '60s Fender 6-string bass a lot. I bought one of the new ones when they started remaking them, but they're really midlle-y sounding. They weigh about half as much, so obviously they're not going to sund the same. [...]the original '60s models are really solid, heavy guitars. If I ever break mine, I don't know what I'm going to do. Give up, I suppose!* [...]

How do you get your signature 6-string bass sound?
It has always gone through the same three Boss pedals - a digital delay and a chorus, with a touch of noise gate to cut off the delay. And I always play through the same early-'80s Peavey Ultra head and 4x12 cabinet.** The 6-string bass sound is the one thing that has stayed the same since the Faith album in 1981. I've never changed the setup, because I always thought it sounded really good. It's like a cello for me - a really perfect sound.

On the Peavy, the middle is rolled off completely, the bass is half up, the treble is full up, and the presence is set at about half. This really reflects my character, but things are invariably set to 0, 5, or 10 on my amps. I never go for anything inbetween, because that's fussing about, and it never gets you anywhere.

*...or simply change the brand.
** As crowbi_wan suggested, that seems to be gone as well.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on July 07, 2009, 11:37:51
Ah, that's the article I was referencing earlier in this topic — about how the '90s Japanese re-issues had too much midrange because of the different wood used for the body. Basswood is much lighter than alder, and has a different tonal quality in general.

QuoteThe 6-string bass sound is the one thing that has stayed the same since the Faith album in 1981. I've never changed the setup, because I always thought it sounded really good. It's like a cello for me - a really perfect sound.

So I guess Robert woke up one day and decided he didn't like the sound of the cello anymore.  :(

Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on May 07, 2010, 21:55:30
this guy is a major douche but this bass sounds so good:
1963 Fender Bass VI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51nA8g_t84c&feature=channel#ws)
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on May 10, 2010, 16:59:22
Quote from: sullen on May 07, 2010, 21:55:30
this guy is a major douche but this bass sounds so good

...and dare I say You're absoutely and undeniably right about both of your observations.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: lostflower4 on May 10, 2010, 17:58:11
Quote from: Matti on May 10, 2010, 16:59:22
Quote from: sullen on May 07, 2010, 21:55:30
this guy is a major douche but this bass sounds so good

...and dare I say You're absoutely and undeniably right about both of your observations.

:lol:

But yeah, that's a sweet axe. Love the color especially (seafoam green). They say it was one of only two made that year. I think the other 99% were sunburst, with a handful of other colors.  :roll:

It does sound good in that video, but it just goes to show how unique The Cure are (were) in giving the instrument a distinct personality. Most people, even Peter Hook to a lesser extent, play it like a traditional bass with a more or less "normal" sound.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: dsanchez on May 12, 2010, 17:12:25
Not a Fender but a Music Man Stingray, the bass guitar used by Simon during the 1985-1987 and the nicest one he has ever used in my opinion.

The guy on the video, what an awesome play!

Improvisation in the Bass Music Man Sting Ray by Wagner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmy4_iQU2c#ws)
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: sullen on May 20, 2010, 18:36:20
Custom shop is making them again!!!
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on May 21, 2010, 08:26:42
Well, I think the Fender Custom Shop has been making them ever since, albeit only on order. I remember talking to a local guitar retailer seven or eight years ago (I had seen a VI in one of their catalogues) and they basically said to me "The Custom Shop will build you whatever you want, but be prepared for the shop's purchase price (not the retail price) to be at least 5000 €."

Btw, the douche's VI from sullen's clip is on sale for only 22,500 $...

Edit: for all of those interested in the "Fender VI and similar instruments" topic, I'd recommend the following links:

BassVI.org (http://www.bassvi.org/index.php)

Talkbass Forum on short-scale six-strings (http://talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=391343) (take a little time, the thread has 100+ pages)
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on December 05, 2011, 09:15:50
... and just to breathe a  bit of life into an old thread: seems like Schecter has two surprises waiting for anyone interested in a Bass VI alternative.

Spring 2012 will see both a Robert Smith Ultra Cure VI (as seen on  COF (http://craigjparker.blogspot.com/2011/12/robert-smith-ultracure-vi.html)) and an updated version of the Hellcat VI (see here (http://shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=973402&sid=64131e2eebb3b29afd5810708f98e8f7)). Both of them will actually come with Seymour Duncan Vintage Jaguar single coil PUs, so they'll be even closer to the original Fender sound...
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: perfect_as_cats on March 30, 2013, 10:00:26
Fender recently gave the VI a do-over for their Pawn Shop series. The new Bass VI sports a Jazzmaster soapbar pickup in the bridge. A bit interesting actually, as Robert made heavy use of a jazzmaster for most of The Cure's work.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on March 31, 2013, 19:22:37
I have to admit I was quite hyped when I saw this, but I'll stick with my Hellcat VI (the old model). Apart from the PUs and the bridge, they're basically the same, especially when it comes to the PU selector. Btw. the bridge PU is not a Jazzmaster style P90, but a JZHB humbucker.

But apart from all this: if anyone's contemplating the purchase of a VI-type instrument, now's the time. There's so many models out there as it seems...
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 05:12:21
Quote from: Matti on December 05, 2011, 09:15:50
... and just to breathe a  bit of life into an old thread: seems like Schecter has two surprises waiting for anyone interested in a Bass VI alternative.

Spring 2012 will see both a Robert Smith Ultra Cure VI (as seen on  COF (http://craigjparker.blogspot.com/2011/12/robert-smith-ultracure-vi.html)) and an updated version of the Hellcat VI (see here (http://shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=973402&sid=64131e2eebb3b29afd5810708f98e8f7)). Both of them will actually come with Seymour Duncan Vintage Jaguar single coil PUs, so they'll be even closer to the original Fender sound...

The new pick-ups TOTALLY blow the old ones in the original Hellcat VI away. Those cheap-o, bottom of the line Duncan mini-hums were totally inappropriate for this type of instrument. Very muddy and ill-defined sounding. Bottom-line...The 2012 version 2 of the Hellcat VI is a fantastic upgrade, well worth it. Far superior top-of-the-line Seymour Duncan SJAG-1 pups, better electronics (with treble bleed cap,) and individual On/Off switches for each pup. Makes a major difference in sound.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 05:18:03
Quote from: Matti on March 31, 2013, 19:22:37But apart from all this: if anyone's contemplating the purchase of a VI-type instrument, now's the time. There's so many models out there as it seems...

If you want a truly inexpensive VI here they are...for roughly HALF the cost of an (imo VASTLY overpriced) Fender PSVI!! http://www.rondomusic.com/argustoaskbk.html (http://www.rondomusic.com/argustoaskbk.html) or http://www.rondomusic.com/argustoastsg.html (http://www.rondomusic.com/argustoastsg.html)

Other options for less than US$800 are offered by Schecter, Eastwood, Burns and Agile/Rondo.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 05:28:14
Quote from: perfect_as_cats on March 30, 2013, 10:00:26
Fender recently gave the VI a do-over for their Pawn Shop series. The new Bass VI sports a Jazzmaster soapbar pickup in the bridge. A bit interesting actually, as Robert made heavy use of a jazzmaster for most of The Cure's work.

It IS NOT a Jazzmaster pup! It is a cheaper hum (actually 2 stacked single coils) in a JM-looking soapbar case. Don't fall for the misleading hype.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: perfect_as_cats on April 01, 2013, 22:00:24
Quote from: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 05:28:14
Quote from: perfect_as_cats on March 30, 2013, 10:00:26
Fender recently gave the VI a do-over for their Pawn Shop series. The new Bass VI sports a Jazzmaster soapbar pickup in the bridge. A bit interesting actually, as Robert made heavy use of a jazzmaster for most of The Cure's work.

It IS NOT a Jazzmaster pup! It is a cheaper hum (actually 2 stacked single coils) in a JM-looking soapbar case. Don't fall for the misleading hype.

Thanks for that. n.n I almost blew my last few paychecks on the reissue.
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 23:14:25
Quote from: perfect_as_cats on April 01, 2013, 22:00:24
Quote from: kenstee on April 01, 2013, 05:28:14
Quote from: perfect_as_cats on March 30, 2013, 10:00:26
Fender recently gave the VI a do-over for their Pawn Shop series. The new Bass VI sports a Jazzmaster soapbar pickup in the bridge. A bit interesting actually, as Robert made heavy use of a jazzmaster for most of The Cure's work.

It IS NOT a Jazzmaster pup! It is a cheaper hum (actually 2 stacked single coils) in a JM-looking soapbar case. Don't fall for the misleading hype.

Thanks for that. n.n I almost blew my last few paychecks on the reissue.

Get  the newer, 2012 version of the Schecter Hellcat VI instead.......same cost, much better product
Title: Re: guitars [lost flowers spin-off]
Post by: Matti on April 02, 2013, 12:52:21
I second that, Ken. Other than that, there's also a Japanese reissue of Fender's VI which seems to be a true replica of the old model (PUs and four switches, the new HCVI has only three).

And just to strike a blow for the old HCVI - I haven't heard the new model and can't really say anything about the PU quality, but I can get it to sound exactly as I want it to, and with the HB/SC option there's a wider variety of sounds you can get.