Jason Cooper - A study of his style

[patitodark]

I was really heartened to read RS's comments when Jason was for whatever reason left out of the band's lineup in whatever that award was a couple months ago, I forget. 

You mean this:
http://curefans.com/curenews/robert-on-jason-cooper/

Even in that "news thread" followed a very unnecessary discussion...  :roll:


Five pages, jeez.  Thank you to the administrator for moving my post to the correct place and thank you to everyone for being so welcoming, good to know such things still exist.  Haven't yet been all around the site but am learning every day.

Now I know why Jason always looks so hunted!  Whenever he looks up at RS on stage he looks as if he's expecting to get punched.  I'm surprised he hasn't quit, his self-esteem must be almost nil.  I sure hope not since there's no reason for it.  I have to wonder how much of this would be said to his face?

Having watched the DVD of Coachella countless times, the sound of the drums on stage was horrible.  Some of the other concerts like Rome and MSG and Charlotte were revelations as far as the drums go.  The guys who did set-up, the types of mics and their placements and the guy doing the mixing made all the difference in the world!  It sounded like I was sitting on the drum stool, really really enjoyable.  The inconsistency has nothing to do with Jason.  I've got to wonder what kind of tech crew Jason's got, the drums will be set up exactly the same every night, no drummer would tolerate otherwise.  Do The Cure tour with the sound equipment, mixer, recording equipment, monitor mixer, PA mixer and all that stuff?  Or do they go with the house equipment and crew?  That would explain the inconsistencies.

I don't know if they travel with all of that gear, but it's strange how Jason is the only one having the inconsistencies...

[cheyler]

You MUST watch The Cure Show DVD and specially "To Wish Impossible Things". Listen to all of the percussion sounds and watch Boris playing all of them (even the big gong sound).
Also, listen to bootlegs or look in YouTube for "Lament" in Glastombury. All of the percussion sounds are played live by Boris.


I'd love to get the Show DVD, I think it has been available only as a VCD?  In this country at least.  Americans are generally pretty unsophisticated and sometimes downright stupid about music, especially when you get past the cover and start getting into details.  Which explains the proliferation of rap music over here.  Mention the name Boris and most people think I'm talking about Bullwinkle or something. 

Just watched the video of TWIT (that's a good one...at least it's not TWAT).  You are absolutely right, the drumming is perfectly suited to the song.  It helps a little that it was professionally recorded and mixed and everything was just exactly perfect on the night.  And the fact that the stereo image is as wide as a football field (no matter where you live).

One other thing I noticed about Jason's sound is that while the on-stage sound may vary from gig to gig, the sound in the house is pretty revealing.  He's a lot more powerful than the image presented by the televised gigs.  Of course, that may just set everyone off once again.  Too powerful, right?  Hey, I'm getting the hang of this.  I'm just hoping, for the sake of the other guys, that the variation in sound doesn't come across on the stage.  I'd hate to have to play with a different drummer every night.  If a drummer is changing his brand often, he's dissatisfied, which will also contribute to the inconsistency.  I wish Jason all the luck in the world and hope everything settles down very very soon.

Maybe the FA Cup could get The Cure to record a new version of One Hundred Years and call it 'One Hundred Yards' and use it as the theme song like New Order with World In Motion.  Maybe not.

[Ulrich]

I don't know what your source is, but my source for telling that Vince was more a producer than a drummer, etc., is a magazine where Boris was interviewed. He also gives a little more details about how he joined the band.

My source (as often is the case recently) is the official bio book "Ten Imaginary Years". Here's quotes from Robert himself on this case:
"So we arrrived on the West Coast of America with a three week tour ahead of us, without a drummer and in a bit of a panic. We were in this bar deciding whether to cancel the tour or whether Lol should drum and we should carry on as a four piece when Phil phoned up a mate of his, Vince Ely (...)
Vince hadn't drummed in a band for about two years, but he was up for it (...)
Unfortunately he was doing advertising work, producing jingles or something, so we knew he'd have to leave the tour somewhere around Texas. Again, we thought of playing as a four piece but again Phil put out a call, this time to Boris Williams (...) Boris had actually already come to see us play at the Palladium in Hollywood, just to see the band and say hello to Phil so we called him up ..."
"Meeting him was just a happy accident really."

My point was: similar as with Jason many years later, there were different drummers at the time they tried out. They asked Boris to stay, same thing happened with JC. Don't see much difference here.

This is what you and me think... only Robert knows the truth.

And maybe some other (ex-)band members. At least I was able to underline what I think with some examples from the band history. RS is seen by the press and most "casual" fans (those who do not visit the forums) as the "boss" anyway, so what would it matter to most if he changed drummers? 

Btw, I would love to see some other (more positive) threads by the musical "experts" here, e.g. "a study of Roger's keyboard style", as imho he's excellent (but I'm not expert enough to analyse it). 

[patitodark]

My source (as often is the case recently) is the official bio book "Ten Imaginary Years". Here's quotes from Robert himself on this case:
"So we arrrived on the West Coast of America with a three week tour ahead of us, without a drummer and in a bit of a panic. We were in this bar deciding whether to cancel the tour or whether Lol should drum and we should carry on as a four piece when Phil phoned up a mate of his, Vince Ely (...)
Vince hadn't drummed in a band for about two years, but he was up for it (...)
Unfortunately he was doing advertising work, producing jingles or something, so we knew he'd have to leave the tour somewhere around Texas. Again, we thought of playing as a four piece but again Phil put out a call, this time to Boris Williams (...) Boris had actually already come to see us play at the Palladium in Hollywood, just to see the band and say hello to Phil so we called him up ..."

I own that book too and also the other one written by Dave Thompson & Greene, both purchased when they came out, so I know them pretty well and doesn't change anything of what I said earlier.

"Meeting him was just a happy accident really."

What an accident!

"Meeting him was just a happy accident really."

My point was: similar as with Jason many years later, there were different drummers at the time they tried out. They asked Boris to stay, same thing happened with JC. Don't see much difference here.[/quote]

The difference is that with Jason they had a real 'accident'   Like a crash or something like that.

"so what would it matter to most if he changed drummers? 

Remember that "a band is only as good as it's drummer".

As I said, Jason is probably a superb drummer, but his style is not for The Cure.
BTW, have you seen the poll results here? and what's been said in drummer forums? other Cure fans forums? and how people reacted when Jason wasn't mentioned in the Rock N' Roll Hall of fame? etc?

If you think Jason has a good musical taste, then you should watch this. If you still think his playing fits The Cure, then we are in different worlds:

Jason Cooper Can't Stop Playing the Cymbals - Video

[Ulrich]

I own that book too and also the other one written by Dave Thompson & Greene, both purchased when they came out

You should've read them after purchase.
(Joke only!)

For my understanding, you seemed to imply that Phil had recommended Boris as THE new cure drummer, whilst I wanted to point out that Phil suggested him just because he was "available" for this tour. All other decisions were met afterwards. I hope this came across somehow?

Remember that "a band is only as good as it's drummer".

Who says so? I don't agree with this theory. For me, a band needs good songs first and foremost.
Also, a band is often much more than just the sum of it's members...

BTW, have you seen the poll results here? and what's been said in drummer forums? other Cure fans forums?

No, other forums aren't really relevant to me when I'm in this place. (Also is enough for me at the moment, apart from reading news on ChainofFlowers.)

If you think Jason has a good musical taste, then you should watch this. If you still think his playing fits The Cure, then we are in different worlds:

These are extreme examples. He didn't sound like this when I was at gigs (quite a few between 1995 and 2008), thank heavens for that. 
Btw, I never said JC had "good taste"? I also never said he was a "superb drummer". He's a time-keeper, some others may be better, some worse.

All I wanted to point out: it was Robert's decision. Whatever one thinks about it, in the end we'll have to respect it (or just stop being "fans"). We won't change it anyway.
(My theories as to why this was decided, are in my previous posts. This is my last comment in this thread, unless new aspects come up.)

[cheyler]

Been reading the posts in this thread and checking out some of the various examples given.  Also listening to a lot of the 'Wish'-era material, both live and studio.  If you want an incredibly well-recorded example of BW at his finest, check out the radio broadcast of the London show on 03-May-92.  The crew and engineers really allowed the band to shine that night, of course the band actually shining very brightly didn't hurt either.  I'd sure love to see the film of that show cleaned up with a well-mixed-and-mastered soundtrack released on DVD, instead of the somewhat disappointing much shorter version on tape.  It's only disappointing because twenty years later that era winds up being my favorite and there's not enough of it!  I really enjoy the off-beat stuff, playing ahead of the pulse or behind it, keeping it defined but not actually touching it.  I'd say that's the major difference between the two drummers, along with knowing when to lay back or lay off (the 'sometimes less is more' theory).

[piggymirror]

Hi.

First post, so hello to everyone. 

If ever Jason Cooper left, there´s a great free drummer out there... Budgie.  :twisted:
But I doubt Robert (and Severin...) want him around any more...  :(

But one can dream. A rhythm section composed of Budgie + Simon Gallup... 

[Hayley85]

I adore Jason
He has his own style of drumming, and i like it.

[Violator]

When I saw the band perform at the second Reflections show in Los Angeles, I really liked that he sounded more restrained and was actually drumming like Lol Tolhurst did. Listening to the Bestival album, recorded the same year, it was like I was listening to the same band, but with different drummers. Sometimes I think that Jason is a great drummer for the band (as evident on the Bloodflowers album), and other times I just think that he was just in the right place at the right time (as evident on 4:13 Dream).

[revolt_again]

Hi.

First post, so hello to everyone. 

If ever Jason Cooper left, there´s a great free drummer out there... Budgie.  :twisted:
But I doubt Robert (and Severin...) want him around any more...  :(

But one can dream. A rhythm section composed of Budgie + Simon Gallup... 

Ha, yes, Budgie would definitely be my first choice for a new Cure drummer, he is just great. And he has already played with Robert in the Banshees, in the 83-84 period... But let's face it, it will never happen.

[revolt_again]

I think it's fair to say that Jason Cooper isn't definitely the best drummer the Cure have ever had... His style does sound inadequate all too frequently. But he has done some good things: notice 'Bloodflowers' (the song) or 'The Promise', for instance. Anyway, I think he will probably be with The Cure until the end of times, for mainly 2 reasons: the band, and specially Robert, don't seem to be dissatisfied with his drumming style; Robert seems to be very loyal to his friends / bandmates, so he wouldn't fire Jason (remember how he kept Lol Tolhurst in the band even when Lol hadn't been contributing anything musically for far too long?).

[Ulrich]

I think it's fair to say that Jason Cooper isn't definitely the best drummer the Cure have ever had... His style does sound inadequate all too frequently. But he has done some good things: notice 'Bloodflowers' (the song) or 'The Promise', for instance.

Well said, Mr. revolt! 

[claudidark]

Ladies & genlemen, for your discussion...

http://youtu.be/HMmh0bfmSes

[dsanchez]

Ladies & genlemen, for your discussion...

lol. this is a neverending discussion, isn't?

[MeltingMan]

Ladies & genlemen, for your discussion...

lol. this is a neverending discussion, isn't?

Yes.It's boring and shameful.The same old story again and again and again...