New message from Robert !!!
JASON
8/8/2007 11:19:58 AM - by CURE:ROBERT
IS THE BEST DRUMMER THE CURE HAS EVER HAD
ANYONE THAT STILL GOES ON ABOUT BORIS
REALLY DOESNT GET IT
BORIS WAS WONDERFUL
JASON IS
MORE THAN WONDERFUL
LISTEN TO THE SONGS
LISTEN TO HIM PLAY
WATCH HIM BAT HIS EYELINER EYES...
EYELINER?
C'MON!
HE IS PLAYING WITH US
IN LOTS OF WAYS!
I AM HAVING FUN
RSX
http://www.thecure.com/community/Topic.asp?AssetID=1585196&ArtistID=491&Start=21&Year=
And very right he is. ;)
The Boris/Jason argument does my head in...... there is no contest.
Boris left the band 14 years ago, yes he was good, but he sounded like a drum machine(thats only a good thing depending on how you look at it)
Is Jason good?
Just watch Trilogy....... i say no more. :-D
No doubt..
Boris is somehow good in his own way...but Jason cooper is way great man! :rocker
well
it is actually an hard question:
they're both great drummer...
i just didn't like the sound of jason's drumming... but it seems that it is better now (from the bootlegs) ... and then, i let you know when i'll see them live! :smth020
have to say I always loved Boris as The Cure drummer, but Jason has continued to improve and grow more confident playing the back catalogue of Cure songs and is now quite rightly regarded as THE Cure drummer :rocker
and he is the one who lasted....more...in The Cure :-D 'till now!
haha i guess the old man reads the boards then? hahaha
anyway, i'm still convinced it's the other way round. boris made them kick ass, jason makes them sound something like genesis sometimes... and i'm ever more convinced of this after listening to the singapore recording: there's a lack of sharpness and edge in their rhythm section, they don't (can't?) play anything fast really fast anymore and so they lack contrasts of tempos - the tempos of the songs slowly drift towards the same and this makes them sound slightly sleepy and a lot more colorless than they used to be. and imho a rather sleepy drummer doesn't help them much in this.
but i guess robert prefers the things in a sleepy way now since the age has obviously gotten into him...
but aahh well, whatever then i guess. maybe the time has caught up with me too...
Jason rocked last night..
I'm no drummer but he sounded pretty damn fine.. he really rocked Shake Dog Shake....
I really don't have anything bad to say about Jason. He's certainly a good drummer, and definitely gets the job done. But better than Boris? Smoke some more crack, Robert. Boris is one of the few rock drummers whose playing I actually notice and pay attention to -- and not because they're either noticeably horrible (Peter Criss), or over-the-top (Neil Peart).
I guess I can see where Robert's coming from. He's defending someone who does a good job, and who's become a long-standing member of the band, from what I imagine to be some pretty needlessly harsh posts.
But to throw Boris under the bus like that -- I mean, he could have just said something nice about both of them instead of outright declaring that "Jason is better than Boris". All that is going to accomplish is to queue up a longer line of "Jason sucks, Boris rocks" posts.
However, it seems that Robert is pretty decent at entertaining fan complaints, even if he doesn't give them the answer that they want to hear. Take for example the KMKMKM bonus disc (of which I thought I was one of a few that were really really let-down). Or complaints about ticket prices.
What these serial complainers (I'd include myself, but I never post on the "forums" at the official site because they make my brain bleed after a minute or two) need to do is realize what an asset that is - and then start complaining more about the need for keyboards... or better yet, BETTER SETLISTS IN NORTH AMERICA.
(I remember some interview where - I believe it was Robert - said that America gets a lot more pop and single-oriented setlists because those are the songs that people know. Or for the casual fans or something. Seriously, who cares? The tickets have already been sold, and who knows, people may like it. They may in turn go out and buy the actual full albums, instead of maybe a singles/hits comp.)
Quote from: rjl on August 09, 2007, 14:46:29
I really don't have anything bad to say about Jason. He's certainly a good drummer, and definitely gets the job done. But better than Boris? Smoke some more crack, Robert. Boris is one of the few rock drummers whose playing I actually notice and pay attention to -- and not because they're either noticeably horrible (Peter Criss), or over-the-top (Neil Peart).
I can't agree more. Jason definitely does a good job, but there's NO way to compare him with Boris. Just catch any "Push" version (fast and incredible drums used there) and there's so big distance between them both. Just listen the drums in any version of Push from 2007 and compare it with the job Boris did during 1986. There's so big distance, sorry to stay.
The Cure will be always the best band of planet, no matter what. And Boris will be always the best Cure drummer. Jason is wonderful, Boris is more than wonderful! :-D
take a listen to the drums in Push here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcoZKbHkmCQ
:rocker
f*** amazing!
Quote from: rjl on August 09, 2007, 14:46:29But better than Boris? Smoke some more crack, Robert.
No crap.
Yes, I think Jason has improved â€" but there are still so many songs he totally stinks up. I still don't think he's really knows a lot of the older songs â€" he just kind of makes them up as he goes, adding fills where they shouldn't be, and missing things that should be there. No, he doesn't have to play exactly like Boris did... But at least make it sound like you know what you're doing!
And c'mon, the dude always plays to a click track. Every song is exactly the same tempo every night (usually very slow these days). Yawn. :smth015
I don't know... Maybe you have to be a musician to understand, but Boris ROCKED! :rocker
Not only that -- Boris had taste and style. I can't imagine, say, KMKMKM* without him. Or rather, I wouldn't want to.
* = or hell, any other Boris-era album... But his drumming is such an awesome presence on that particular album, IMO.
Yeah he plays to a click, only on some songs, but that isnt a bad thing, it takes a good drummer to be able to that, no really, it does. ;) Also pretty much every drummer in any band that big plays to a click, they usually do it to sync up with the lighting etc.... i know NIN do this and a few other bands, so it wouldnt surprise me. Dont forget theres a few samples in there too, e.g. Push, 100 years, Faith, Kyoto song, Lovesong, Want, etc etc.... so hes got to keep in time with that.
But personally, id say hes different to Boris, not 'better'.... i think he fits the lineup better than Boris.
WHEN I SAW IT ON C.O.F. I SHOUTED "F*** YEAH!" AND GAVE MYSELF A HUG!
It was really nice what Robert has written about Jason :)
Both have their different styles and that is good so! Times are changing.
Now Jason is the drummer and not Boris.
Boris has done a great job when he was in the band, and Jason does a great one now!! :)
"SILLY ME!
8/13/2007 9:09:24 AM - by CURE:ROBERT
I JUST GOT SENT A FUNNY EMAIL WITH THIS TAGGED ON THE END...
Stylus Magazine on the other hand, thinks differently:
45. Lol Tolhurst / Boris Williams
(IN RESPONSE TO ME AIRING AN OPINION THAT BORIS IS A WONDERFUL DRUMMER BUT JASON IS EVEN MORE WONDERFUL... )
FOR A MOMENT THERE I HAD THE IDIOT IDEA I KNEW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT! ABSURD!
MY SINCERE APOLOGIES TO STYLUS MAGAZINE AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT CURE DRUMMERS THAN I DO...
CRETINS ALL!
DUBBADUBADUBBACHUCK
RSX"
lolol.
Even though Lol's skills were quite limited, I think he put a lot more passion into his playing, which in turn showed in the music. So yes, it's still this for me:
1) Boris
2) Andy
3) Lol
4) Jason
And Jason is a VERY distant fourth there - sorry.
Quote from: Tof on August 09, 2007, 02:23:55
ANYONE THAT STILL GOES ON ABOUT BORIS
REALLY DOESNT GET IT...
AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT CURE DRUMMERS THAN I DO...
this is what totally gets on my nerves, Robert has become one of the most narrow minded persons - why allow people to have a different opinion... nah, there is just 2 rules...
1. Robert Smith is always right
2. If Robert Smith isn't available, go back to rule No 1...
skills or no skills, who cares, it is what makes the songs, I have always been a fan of the way Lol contributed to the early songs, a more drummachine orientated drumming, that is why I like that the most.
without any doubt Boris is an excellent drummer, Andy and Jason were/are good drummers as well. the thing I dislike about Jason's drumming is his constant cymbal bashing, can't stand that at all... but obviously that is personal seen, others may like that - but I'd never say Lol was the best drummer + everyone who has a different opinion should f**k off...
the second part of Robert's quote sounds to me like a little boy who was stolen his teddybear... or 2 3 year old whining cause his mother won't buy him a strawberry icecream...
A few years back, I could also imagine Robert ranting about the whole Perry vs. Porl issue and how "Perry was the greatest guitarist to ever be in the band, period," and how we have to stop living in the past.
And then now... :lol:
The dude is clearly losing it.
And I'm not talking about the Boris v. Jason issue.
Every CURE:ROBERT post gets increasingly more insane, in wording & tone.
Quote from: rjl on August 14, 2007, 18:35:30
The dude is clearly losing it.
And I'm not talking about the Boris v. Jason issue.
Every CURE:ROBERT post gets increasingly more insane, in wording & tone.
So I guess the next album is going to suck then. :(
Quote from: lostflower4 on August 14, 2007, 18:40:19
So I guess the next album is going to suck then. :(
According to Robert, the drumming won't :lol:
Quote from: lostflower4 on August 14, 2007, 18:40:19
Quote from: rjl on August 14, 2007, 18:35:30
The dude is clearly losing it.
And I'm not talking about the Boris v. Jason issue.
Every CURE:ROBERT post gets increasingly more insane, in wording & tone.
So I guess the next album is going to suck then. :(
Not necessarily. I mean, look at Syd Barrett (well, to a point, and only for a short while) and Anton Newcombe.
Quote from: crowbi_wan on August 14, 2007, 18:52:02
According to Robert, the drumming won't :lol:
:) :) :)
oh c'mon..
they're words... on the web, nothing more.
Haven't you thought that the post from Robert about the article of the Stylus Magazine wasn't meant serious??? :)
I think that wasn't meant serious. Robert has a very good sense of humour :)
If that's directed at any of my comments, of course he's being a bit light-hearted and is writing with some humor. I was merely commenting on his posts / his phrasing. And I don't actually mean that he's losing his mind. He's being playful. Although it does make him sound like a lunatic.
I'm sorry, i've meant it generally rjl :)
I wanted to ask around if that didn't catch someone's eye nothing more :)
Well, in that case, yeah, I completely see it from his point of view - it's his band.
And, despite my preference of Boris, there really has never been a bad Cure line-up, as far as I see. They've all "worked", although this time around I'd prefer either the addition keyboards or simply an all-out guitar show. No backing tracks.
Backing tracks are great when you can't find enough people to play (been there, done that, and they are a **** to play to if you don't have any way to reliably cue them on demand), but when you're the Cure?
However, I guess it's better than hiring just a "hired-hand", "no name" type of player. I'd hate to see the Cure devolving from a "band" to an "act".
I personally like Boris's style much better, but it might also depend on the fact I like the old catalog (up to Wish) much, much better than what has come afterwards (or is it not a coincidence?).
I don't want to debate much about who has better technical skills 'cause I'm not a drummer and I may not be able to say so, but as a listener I find Boris's style more creative and original: as someone else has already said above, Boris makes you pay attention to drums much more than average drummers. Now, I don't know how much depended on him and how much depended on Robert's composition, but with Boris on board drums parts were much nicer than in the 'Jason era'. Said so, I think Jason is a good drummer, but I find his style more conventional.