Pronouns

Started by dsanchez, September 12, 2023, 01:57:32

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

dsanchez

2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

nerdiee

Quote from: dsanchez on September 12, 2023, 01:57:32There's an ongoing debate specially in the US (certainly this is not a relevant topic here in Central Europe) in the use of pronouns. For example, transgender people would refer themselves with a pronoun different than their sex at birth. Take for example Porl Thompson who is now Pearl Thompson (she). I am totally fine with that. Yes, I will refer Pearl as she.

But I personally find absurd people who want to be referred as they/them. Is like you Ulrich coming tomorrow and saying you are "they" :) So no, I won't be using a plural pronoun to refer to a singular person.

Is this a debate at all where you live? Have you encountered anyone who wanted to be referred as they/them?

In general, when people say to address them with they/them,they do not mean the plural... the pronoun "it" is used so as not to classify oneself as male or female. Such people are in the non-binary gender system
Therefore, I think there is nothing absurd in this, just something new and not quite familiar yet XD

although I'm already late with my answer, I think you already understood everything haha
teach me how to swim at the same deep water as you

dsanchez

Quote from: nerdiee on September 14, 2023, 20:38:38In general, when people say to address them with they/them,they do not mean the plural... the pronoun "it" is used so as not to classify oneself as male or female. Such people are in the non-binary gender system

Thank you :smth023  I was doing some research and found this, which is a pretty good explanation and I think closes the topic:

QuoteThe pronoun "they" can be used as a singular pronoun when it is used to refer to a person whose sex is not known or specified. Below are some examples.

We need a new manager for the store down town. They will need to have some managerial experience to apply for the job.
Find a babysitter who can prove they are responsible and are certified in CPR.
An employee will not do a good job if they don't have the right training.
 
Many grammarians and English teachers oppose the use of they (and its other forms: their, them, themselves) as a singular pronoun and encourage students to use "he or she" instead. However, because English does not have a common-gender, or gender neutral, third person singular personal pronoun, writers and speakers often use they. It is a well-established use. It can be used like in the examples above, when the gender of the person referred to is not known, and it can be used to refer to indefinite pronouns such as everyone, someone, and anyone, as in the examples below:

Everyone should take their seats.
Someone was just here and they left their phone behind.
Anyone can learn to ride a bike if they try.

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/The-Singular-They

Having said that, while this may apply to English it wouldn't work in other languages such a Spanish or Slavic languages such as Czech and Slovak where "they/them" is always tied to a number (greater than one)
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

Ulrich

In Germany there was some discussion about "gendering" and some people ask to use "*" "_" or other things.
However the offical commission for spelling is not backing them (because these things might make texts more difficult to understand, read or translate)!

https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2023-12/gendern-sprache-rechtschreibrat-genderstern-unterstrich

QuoteDer Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung lehnt es weiter ab, den Genderstern oder andere geschlechtergerechte Sprachzeichen in das amtliche Regelwerk aufzunehmen. Das geht nach Angaben der Nachrichtenagentur KNA aus einem mehrheitlich beschlossenen Papier des Expertengremiums hervor. Nach Angaben aus Teilnehmerkreisen heißt es darin: "Sonderzeichen innerhalb von Wörtern beeinträchtigen die Verständlichkeit, die Lesbarkeit, die Vorlesbarkeit und die automatische Übersetzbarkeit". Auch die "Eindeutigkeit und Rechtssicherheit von Begriffen und Texten" sieht der Rat gefährdet.

Which goes to show: none of us are "above" the rules of grammar or spelling.
Theorize and talk yourself
Until you're tired and old