Jason Cooper - A study of his style

Started by DrumStudy, August 08, 2008, 05:16:32

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Who is your favourite The Cure drummer?

patitodark


dsanchez

Quote from: patitodark on September 06, 2012, 16:10:32
I saw this in another forum early this morning  :-D

I think you're obsessed with Jason :lol:

I saw the band twice in 2008, and 5 times in 2011/2012. In 2008 Jason was using way too much cymbals, but in 2011/2012 he sounds really good (as good as he did when he started on The Cure)
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

patitodark

Quote from: dsanchez on September 06, 2012, 16:33:17
Quote from: patitodark on September 06, 2012, 16:10:32
I saw this in another forum early this morning  :-D

I think you're obsessed with Jason :lol:

I saw the band twice in 2008, and 5 times in 2011/2012. In 2008 Jason was using way too much cymbals, but in 2011/2012 he sounds really good (as good as he did when he started on The Cure)

I was looking for the latest new on The Cure and the video jumped immediately and wanted to share it here ;)

As I said before, I'm glad Jason has improved a little and is not bashing the cymbals now.. anyway the video is very good and had a good laugh.

cheyler

I've been reading nothing but criticism, on the sites I visit, of Jason's drumming throughout his tenure with The Cure.  Not sure why.  Boris was Boris, excellent, possibly knew what 'not to play' (something the Indians consider as important as what IS played) a little better than Jason but not by much if at all.  Some of the criticism was of the use of a 'metronome' if that's what it's called when used under live circumstances and of the use of pre-recorded drum parts triggered electronically.  The pre-recorded drum parts are not used because Jason is unable to play all the parts during any given song.  No one could, there isn't enough time and that's a fact.  The use of a timer/timing device/whatever is necessary for the electronic triggering of keyboard parts and drum parts because the various parts have to sync up to something or the time would be COMPLETELY fucked up (pardon my English).  You can't seriously think that RS would bring in a drummer that can't keep time!  He and Simon lock in beautifully, it's a treat to watch actually.  Why does Simon continually prevent himself from smiling?  Happens in every song.  Let it happen and get it over with.  Anyway...  It's funny as hell to see Simon looking at Jason and hopping around (especially during slow songs) as if he wants Jason to crank up the tempo.  Integral part of any Cure set.  I was really heartened to read RS's comments when Jason was for whatever reason left out of the band's lineup in whatever that award was a couple months ago, I forget.  Seventeen years.  Wait...  RS is incredibly loyal to his bandmates and rarely if ever says a bad word about any of them, even changing the real story to be more...tactful I suppose.  Nice to see, not sure it's ever happened before in pop music.  Love the site.  I see the first four letters of my 'verification code' are 'CTUN'...very funny.

dsanchez

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
I've been reading nothing but criticism, on the sites I visit, of Jason's drumming throughout his tenure with The Cure. 

yes merging your comment with a previous, similar topic.
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

Ulrich

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07You can't seriously think that RS would bring in a drummer that can't keep time!  He and Simon lock in beautifully, it's a treat to watch actually.

I can't help but agreeing with you here! I thought the same thing(s) when reading some comments here in this thread and elsewhere!  :)

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07I was really heartened to read RS's comments when Jason was for whatever reason left out of the band's lineup in whatever that award was a couple months ago, I forget. 

You mean this:
http://curefans.com/curenews/robert-on-jason-cooper/

Even in that "news thread" followed a very unnecessary discussion...  :roll:
The holy city breathed like a dying man...

patitodark

Hi cheyler! and welcome to the forum!

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
I've been reading nothing but criticism, on the sites I visit, of Jason's drumming throughout his tenure with The Cure.  Not sure why.

Carefully read the comments, listen to his drumming and you may know why. But among other things are his bad sound in live and in the studio, and the lack of distinctive drum parts (drum patterns, intros, etc.)


Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
Boris was Boris, excellent, possibly knew what 'not to play' (something the Indians consider as important as what IS played)

THAT is a very important fact and something that Jason critics hate about him: His playing is TOO busy filling notes with snare drum hits, cymbals and toms!


Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
Some of the criticism was of the use of a 'metronome' if that's what it's called when used under live circumstances and of the use of pre-recorded drum parts triggered electronically.  The pre-recorded drum parts are not used because Jason is unable to play all the parts during any given song.  No one could, there isn't enough time and that's a fact.

You MUST watch The Cure Show DVD and specially "To Wish Impossible Things". Listen to all of the percussion sounds and watch Boris playing all of them (even the big gong sound).
Also, listen to bootlegs or look in YouTube for "Lament" in Glastombury. All of the percussion sounds are played live by Boris.


Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
You can't seriously think that RS would bring in a drummer that can't keep time!

As you may know, Jason wasn't Robert choice in the first place... WMS producer recommended him for the job and Robert obliged to hire him.


Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
He and Simon lock in beautifully

Boris and Simon locked more than beautifully  ;)


Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
I was really heartened to read RS's comments when Jason was for whatever reason left out of the band's lineup in whatever that award was a couple months ago, I forget.

It was for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
(http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/09/28/robert-smith-cure-drummer-jason-cooper/)

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07
Nice to see, not sure it's ever happened before in pop music.

Lennon on Ringo


Anyway, this year I've been in a couple of concerts and Jason has improved his drum sound a little (he's changed of drum brand. Again!).  He is also playing the percussion sounds on Plainsong too.


Ulrich

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 17:05:51
You MUST watch The Cure Show DVD and specially "To Wish Impossible Things". Listen to all of the percussion sounds and watch Boris playing all of them (even the big gong sound).

I totally agree that Boris was (is!) a very good drummer and his drum parts on "KM KM KM" and beyond are very well composed and performed!!
But, as far as I know, he left the band by his own choice (as did Porl a bit before him). So I see not much reason to moan about (as many others do). It's VERY obvious that Robert wouldn't bury The Cure because the drummer left. (Otherwise he'd have done so long before...)

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 17:05:51
As you may know, Jason wasn't Robert choice in the first place... WMS producer recommended him for the job and Robert obliged to hire him.

Ok, someone recommended him. Still, in the end, I suppose it was Robert's decision to keep him as the drummer?
How did Boris become the drummer, btw? As far as I know, Phil Thornally recommended him (then bassist and producer of "Pornography"). He was hired after Vince Ely couldn't play all the shows on a US tour (after Andy Anderson had been fired). Why was he offered to stay in The Cure then? Because of his style? I guess so, but more importantly, as Robert said in "Ten Imaginary Years" (official bio), because Boris "had a Cure sense of humour".
Which makes me think: maybe there are other reasons (apart from drum style) which made RS keep Jason in the band? He probably brings something in as a personality, not just as a time-keeper. (Which, I think, was the case with most people who ever joined The Cure.) And this (important) thing has been forgotten by nearly all of the above-mentioned "critics".   :(
The holy city breathed like a dying man...

patitodark

Hi Ulrich!

Quote from: Ulrich on July 20, 2013, 17:52:41
Ok, someone recommended him. Still, in the end, I suppose it was Robert's decision to keep him as the drummer?
How did Boris become the drummer, btw? As far as I know, Phil Thornally recommended him (then bassist and producer of "Pornography"). He was hired after Vince Ely couldn't play all the shows on a US tour (after Andy Anderson had been fired).

A very good recommendation from a guy who KNEW the band very well, he knew what kind of musician Robert needed, and because he was also a band member at that time too!
An important thing to remember is that Boris had a long career as a musician than Jason, having played with known artists as Strawberry Switchblade and the Thompson Twins (also Kim Wilde which I don't like much, and with the first incarnation of Queen!). He also did the hippie trail :)  where I'm sure is where he got those musical influences displayed in The Snakepit, Like Cockatoos, If only tonight we could sleep, etc
On the other hand, Jason came from My Life Story. He claims to be a Cure fan since 17 Seconds but still he can't get to feel the vibe of Play for Today's bass drum pattern, right. And plays strange fills that cut -again- the vibe of the songs.


Quote from: Ulrich on July 20, 2013, 17:52:41
Why was he offered to stay in The Cure then? Because of his style? I guess so, but more importantly, as Robert said in "Ten Imaginary Years" (official bio), because Boris "had a Cure sense of humour".

Yes, I remember that line... and we can watch Boris joking in CURE BORIS FUNNY.flv and a couple of other videos too (sad there are no more videos of Boris around).
But I've never ever watched a video of Jason joking or having a "Cure sense of humor"... "Which makes me think: maybe there are other reasons (apart from drum style) which made RS keep Jason in the band?"

I also remember that Simon said he was "dead nervous" when Boris joined the band, as he knew Boris was a great drummer :)


I don't moan about Jason's playing anymore, at least not as I did in 1996-2008 :D 
BTW, in 2000 during the Bloodflowers tour I heard Jason doing some cool stuff in the hi-hat cymbals during the soundcheck.
Also, I've watched him, in a YouTube video, playing a nice short drum solo in Peru this year.
Jason might be a good drummer but his style is not for The Cure. IMO.



Ulrich

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 19:07:54
A very good recommendation from a guy who KNEW the band very well, he knew what kind of musician Robert needed, and because he was also a band member at that time too!

And they were in desperate need of a drummer for the tour, as Andy had been sacked in Japan and they arrived on the West Coast with no drummer. First person who was asked was Vince, not Boris, don't forget this! I'm sure Boris was asked cause Phil knew him and he was available for a few weeks tour!

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 19:07:54
But I've never ever watched a video of Jason joking or having a "Cure sense of humor"...

Jason might be a good drummer but his style is not for The Cure. IMO.

Tell it to RS. ;)
I wasn't implying that JC had a "Cure sense of humour", this was just an example that the members of The Cure don't get their job for technical perfectionism, but more for their personality. (We'd have to ask RS what exactly he likes about Jason.)
The holy city breathed like a dying man...

patitodark

Quote from: Ulrich on July 20, 2013, 20:10:38
And they were in desperate need of a drummer for the tour, as Andy had been sacked in Japan and they arrived on the West Coast with no drummer. First person who was asked was Vince, not Boris, don't forget this! I'm sure Boris was asked cause Phil knew him and he was available for a few weeks tour!

Yes, they were desperate but a disco or funk drummer wasn't called for the job. Phil knew the band and maybe Vince was recommended because of his work with The Psychedelic furs. So let's say he wasn't that far musically from The Cure... they are both from the 80s, etc.

When Vince started feeling uncomfortable playing certain songs (At that time Vince was more a music producer than a drummer), then Phil thought about Boris.

Have you heard Jason playing with My Life Story? if not, I invite you to hear his playing (patterns and drum fills) there  :roll:


Quote from: Ulrich on July 20, 2013, 20:10:38
(We'd have to ask RS what exactly he likes about Jason.)

I remember some guy (who supposedly worked with the band) wrote in a forum that Robert knew Jason wasn't that good but it was his decision to keep him in the band because if not, people would say he made a mistake that ruined The Cure and blah, blah.. so RS was keeping J on a whim. I don't know if it's truth but it kinda makes sense to me.

Anyway, at this moment I'm listening and enjoying KMX3 and Wish on my new Pioneer stereo system! ;)   Really, the drums were an important part of the band during the Boris era.


Ulrich

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 20:46:52
Yes, they were desperate but a disco or funk drummer wasn't called for the job. Phil knew the band and maybe Vince was recommended because of his work with The Psychedelic furs. So let's say he wasn't that far musically from The Cure... they are both from the 80s, etc.

When Vince started feeling uncomfortable playing certain songs (At that time Vince was more a music producer than a drummer), then Phil thought about Boris.

The way I heard it, Vince had some other commitment and no time for all the gigs. Thus Boris was asked, like Vince he was a "stand-in" for this tour, then later was asked to stay in the band because he fit. (It might've ended differently, they might've found another drummer months later...)

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 20:46:52
I remember some guy (who supposedly worked with the band) wrote in a forum that Robert knew Jason wasn't that good but it was his decision to keep him in the band because if not, people would say he made a mistake that ruined The Cure and blah, blah.. so RS was keeping J on a whim. I don't know if it's truth but it kinda makes sense to me.

Really? Does make absolutely no sense to me. The Cure has seen so many band members. Roger for example left in 1990, came back in 1995 and was sacked in 2005, only to return in 2011... (Yet I heard no-one say his exit ruined the band in 2005.... Btw, Roger told some "not-so-nice" stories in 2005/6 about Robert & the Cure, yet not the above mentioned rumour...)
RS could've sacked JC in 2005 too and not many would've complained or wondered... Also allegedly he nearly disbanded the group in 1997 (when he made "Wrong Number"). I don't think a change of drummer back then would have received much notice by fans or press...
The holy city breathed like a dying man...

patitodark

Quote from: Ulrich on July 21, 2013, 10:14:07
The way I heard it, Vince had some other commitment and no time for all the gigs. Thus Boris was asked...

I don't know what your source is, but my source for telling that Vince was more a producer than a drummer, etc., is a magazine where Boris was interviewed. He also gives a little more details about how he joined the band.



Quote from: Ulrich on July 21, 2013, 10:14:07
Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 20:46:52
I remember some guy (who supposedly worked with the band) wrote in a forum that Robert knew Jason wasn't that good but it was his decision to keep him in the band because if not, people would say he made a mistake that ruined The Cure and blah, blah.. so RS was keeping J on a whim. I don't know if it's truth but it kinda makes sense to me.

Really? Does make absolutely no sense to me. The Cure has seen so many band members. Roger for example left in 1990, came back in 1995 and was sacked in 2005, only to return in 2011... (Yet I heard no-one say his exit ruined the band in 2005.... Btw, Roger told some "not-so-nice" stories in 2005/6 about Robert & the Cure, yet not the above mentioned rumour...)
RS could've sacked JC in 2005 too and not many would've complained or wondered... Also allegedly he nearly disbanded the group in 1997 (when he made "Wrong Number"). I don't think a change of drummer back then would have received much notice by fans or press...

This is what you and me think... only Robert knows the truth.



dsanchez

Quote from: patitodark on July 20, 2013, 17:05:51As you may know, Jason wasn't Robert choice in the first place... WMS producer recommended him for the job and Robert obliged to hire him.
The Cure published an ad in a newspaper looking for a drummer. That is how Jason was found.

http://curefans.com/gallery/index.php/publications/the-cure-con-nuevo-baterista-el-comercio-peru-1996
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

cheyler

Quote from: cheyler on July 19, 2013, 02:17:07I was really heartened to read RS's comments when Jason was for whatever reason left out of the band's lineup in whatever that award was a couple months ago, I forget. 

You mean this:
http://curefans.com/curenews/robert-on-jason-cooper/

Even in that "news thread" followed a very unnecessary discussion...  :roll:


Five pages, jeez.  Thank you to the administrator for moving my post to the correct place and thank you to everyone for being so welcoming, good to know such things still exist.  Haven't yet been all around the site but am learning every day.

Now I know why Jason always looks so hunted!  Whenever he looks up at RS on stage he looks as if he's expecting to get punched.  I'm surprised he hasn't quit, his self-esteem must be almost nil.  I sure hope not since there's no reason for it.  I have to wonder how much of this would be said to his face?

Having watched the DVD of Coachella countless times, the sound of the drums on stage was horrible.  Some of the other concerts like Rome and MSG and Charlotte were revelations as far as the drums go.  The guys who did set-up, the types of mics and their placements and the guy doing the mixing made all the difference in the world!  It sounded like I was sitting on the drum stool, really really enjoyable.  The inconsistency has nothing to do with Jason.  I've got to wonder what kind of tech crew Jason's got, the drums will be set up exactly the same every night, no drummer would tolerate otherwise.  Do The Cure tour with the sound equipment, mixer, recording equipment, monitor mixer, PA mixer and all that stuff?  Or do they go with the house equipment and crew?  That would explain the inconsistencies.