Author Topic: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82  (Read 8317 times)

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Offline Curetastraphy

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Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« on: April 20, 2007, 03:37:53 »
Does anybody now what pedals robert used for 'All Mine'...the one you can hear at the end of the song..example are 5.06 and 5.07...and the pedal he used for Voodoo Dolly?

Offline Curetastraphy

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2007, 02:17:39 »
Nobody?

Offline strange_day

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2007, 03:20:26 »
Which version of All Mine do you mean?, ive only got the one on the re-mastered cd, its less than 3 minutes long. If you could tell me, i might be able to help you.

The one he uses in Voodoo Dolly (Nocturne version), in the really intense bits is some kind of pitch-shifter. But hes also got a ton of other stuff in there like distorion, delay, chorus and i think a phaser aswell.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 21:56:20 »
Does anybody now what pedals robert used for 'All Mine'...the one you can hear at the end of the song..example are 5.06 and 5.07...and the pedal he used for Voodoo Dolly?

By then Robert used an Electro Harmonix "Deluxe Memory Man" (Chorus / Delay / Tremolo), a Storm Distortion pedal, and (maybe) an Electro Harmonix "Electric Mistress" (Flanger). The Phasing effect came from the in-built Phaser of the Peavey Musician Mark III amp.

For "Voodoo Dolly", he had an active Ovation Breadwinner which is prone to insane feedbacking when set ingeniously. Plug this into a Marshall half stack, add heavy distortion and a volume pedal and there you are.

As for a Pitch Shifter, certainly not in 1982.
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Offline Descent

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 01:00:03 »
Impressive as always. 8)
I thought the feedback on Voodoo Dolly and on Nightshift was done with the help of this tiny speaker (or something that looks like that to me, I don't know what it is on the video) that was standing in front of Robert Smith too ? Apparently, Robert just did what John Mc Geoch used to do on that song, same method/equipment I mean.

Offline strange_day

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 01:47:08 »
Wow, you certainly know your stuff!......

Most of that probably isnt available anymore though? unless via E-bay or something.

Ive always wondered waht that thing is Robert's messing with in Nocturne, some kind of small mixer? i really dont know, Steve Severin has one too though, which they use at the start of Helter Skelter, which also has that great feedback sound.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 11:57:06 »
Impressive as always. 8)
I thought the feedback on Voodoo Dolly and on Nightshift was done with the help of this tiny speaker (or something that looks like that to me, I don't know what it is on the video) that was standing in front of Robert Smith too ? Apparently, Robert just did what John Mc Geoch used to do on that song, same method/equipment I mean.

Thanks (and sorry for the lack of news, private message to Descent...)  ;)

You're quite right too, saying Robert used McGeoch's gear. Here are some clues about Robert's "mystery stand", taken from the article "The GothFather" / Guitar World - June 1996. Robert Smith speaking about his Banshees's gear :

"I should add that when I played with Siouxsie and the Banshees the first time I played and Ovation Breadwinner guitar. That was 1979. So I did own another guitar. But that was my Banshees guitar. I would never have dreamed of playing it with the Cure. I resurrected it when I went back and played with the Banshees a second time [_1982-1985_]. It really summed up the Banshees for me: a very modern kind of asymmetrical shape. Nearly every guitar I've ever bought was chosen for its visual aesthetics-how it looked rather than how it sounded."

And further on :

"It was a lot more interesting the second time I played with the Banshees and inherited John McGeogh's setup. [_McGeogh has also played with Magazine, Visage, and P.I.L.] He had an old MXR flanger mounted on a mike stand; he'd hit a chord and sweep the flange knob in real time. I actually watched a video of what he was doing and that gave me insight. They wanted me to use his guitar, but I refused - again, on grounds of aesthetics! I said, "That's an ugly instrument. I'm not going to play it." But I used his amp instead."

So the pedal on a mike stand for Robert to tweak in was indeed an MXR Flanger. Certainly a vintage MXR M117R. Here it is :

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&g=guitar&base_pid=151105&index=0 
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Offline Adlib

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 12:10:47 »
Wow, you certainly know your stuff!......

I wouldn't answer otherwise...

Most of that probably isnt available anymore though? unless via E-bay or something.

The Electro Harmonix pedals ("Electric Mistress" & "Deluxe Memory Man") are still available. Yet, they are marketed as reissues, and I wouldn't argue about their quality regarding the original Electro Harmonix pedals (this is a Cure forum, not a musical instruments dedicated one). They are said to be good ones, though. The "Deluxe Memory Man" now features 4 pots, where 5 were to be found on Robert's vintage one.

The MXR Flanger (see above) is also available as a reissue effect.

As for the Storm Distortion pedal, I've only seen it once on Ebay (the yellow model used by Robert by then) and I luckily bought it... Quite a crap pedal indeed, you can't be a winner everyday.

Ovation Breadwinners pop up now and then...

Marshall stacks are just the least to worry about... There's nothing more common than these on the second-hand market (I wouldn't name the model used by Robert in 1982...).   

Ive always wondered waht that thing is Robert's messing with in Nocturne, some kind of small mixer? i really dont know, Steve Severin has one too though, which they use at the start of Helter Skelter, which also has that great feedback sound.

MXR Flanger. See above. Setting the "Regen" at high levels on flanger pedals induce a feedback effect by reinjecting an already modified sound in the incoming signal... That's it for the technical stuff.  ;)
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Offline Descent

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 23:35:35 »

Thanks (and sorry for the lack of news, private message to Descent...)  ;)


No worry. I'm very happy to 'see' you. Even if everytime I feel like I have to go back to music shops to learn a bit more than the little I know technically.  :oops: :lol:

And thanks for finding that interesting interview too. I couldn't remember where I've read that he used Mc Geoch's set up. I can relax now... 8)

Offline Curetastraphy

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 03:45:24 »
Thanks for helping me with 'VD' but does anybody know about the ending of all mine

here's a sample
 
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L5E214LM

Offline strange_day

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 04:24:12 »
Im no expert, but it sounds like hes just got the volume up full and holding his guitar right into the amplifier, so the pickups are like pressed against the speaker, you get this intense feedback....its a very similar sound i get with my guitar when i do such things  8)
with some kind of really big flanger effect over the top aswell. It kind of sounds like a theremin in places....
Maybe this MXR flanger that Adlib knows about or something similar?

I also noticed its dead similar to the feedback at the start of Fascination Street...which is cool.  :smth020

Offline Adlib

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 12:51:39 »
Thanks for helping me with 'VD' but does anybody know about the ending of all mine

here's a sample
 
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L5E214LM

OK. Heard and checked out.

That's definitely the typical sound of a feedbacking guitar once you begin tweaking the "Rate" pot of a modulation effect (i.e. Flanger / Chorus / Phaser). The "Rate" increases or lowers the speed of the wave sound. It's also very likely that the flanger is "on" : the amount of "whistling" shows a "Regen" set to a fairly high level.

This kind of sound may also be obtained with a Phaser. I'm quite interested in seeing video footage from this era to confirm that, but does that exist ? The Peavey Musician Mark III head features a built-in Phasing effect which could do more or less the same thing.

Here is what I think : Robert shall have dropped the guitar on the floor and begun "toying" with his pedal OR the amp built-in effect... 'Round 1'45" the sound is quite typical of a guitar being carelessly dropped to the floor nearby the amp (no coherent chords or notes emitted but this "sweeeeink" - fingers sliding up the neck - and final "boooooonk" - guitar dropped). Then the feedback begins, which is pretty natural at stage high volume. Then he came back to the mike, did what he has to do (finishing the lyrics) and began tweaking his flanger or phaser.

The MXR Flanger was used with the Banshees. I don't think he used it with the Cure in 1982 (but I can be wrong). A thing for sure : you can do exactly the same with any modulation effect by tweaking with the "rate". So MXR or Electro Harmonix "Electric Mistress", the choice is yours. Given the high "regen" sound, it means there was a Flanger round here... The rest ("rate" fluctuations) could be emitted by any pedal (EH "Electric Mistress" OR "Deluxe Memory Man" / MXR flanger OR Peavey Mark III's Phaser).

http://www.impressionofsounds.com/shows/1982/820420.html

The Electro Harmonix "Deluxe Memory Man" is the large 5-knob chrome plated pedal nearby the mike stand. Alongside, there's what furiously looks like a Boss pedal : given the 3-knob configuration and the era this could be a OD-1 Overdrive, a DS-1 Distortion, a OC-2 Octave, a SD-1 Super Overdrive, or a PH-1r Phaser... All these pedals were manufacturer by Boss back then. Shame the picture is B&W, but it's not Descent's fault ;-).

Here they are :
http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/ds1.xml
http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/oc2.xml
http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/ph1r.xml
http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/od1.xml
http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/sd1.xml

I have a doubt about the OD-1 / DS-1 / SD-1. Robert said he used Storm pedals for his noisy parts (but Robert's memory is a long story to be discussed and argued). Same for the OC-2, I can't hear any octave divided tracks from this era. So what's left is the PH-1r, which is highly probable and summarizes this long post : could be the Phaser Bob used by then in addition to the Peavey amp.
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Offline lostflower4

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2007, 14:03:16 »
As for the Storm Distortion pedal, I've only seen it once on Ebay (the yellow model used by Robert by then) and I luckily bought it... Quite a crap pedal indeed, you can't be a winner everyday.

I manged to find one of these in a used music gear catalog many years ago. I agree that's it's something of a crap pedal. :roll:

This was supposedly the distortion pedal Robert used in the late '70s. I can actually get something similar to the Object-It's Not You tone from it, but it's much thinner. So I'm convinced that Robert must have been using this in conjunction with the distortion from his amplifier. I've read that he was using a WEM combo amp back then, but the specific model was never mentioned. It's pretty hard tracking down a lot of that old gear. I mean, where on earth can you find a Woolworth's Top 20 guitar? I've never seen one in my life! :?

About the re-issue pedals vs. the orginals, I don't have any experience with the MXR ones, but sometimes re-issues can be complete crap and inferior the originals. But I really don't want to start this debate either, as this can vary from product to product.

But I will say that the Fender Jazzmaster guitar reissue from a few years ago is absolute shit. I had nothing but problems with it from day one and ended up selling it. The reissue is completely cheapened down and nothing like the originals, which are worth a small fortune these days. :twisted:

Offline Adlib

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2007, 17:58:54 »
As for the Storm Distortion pedal, I've only seen it once on Ebay (the yellow model used by Robert by then) and I luckily bought it... Quite a crap pedal indeed, you can't be a winner everyday.

I manged to find one of these in a used music gear catalog many years ago. I agree that's it's something of a crap pedal. :roll:

This was supposedly the distortion pedal Robert used in the late '70s. I can actually get something similar to the Object-It's Not You tone from it, but it's much thinner. So I'm convinced that Robert must have been using this in conjunction with the distortion from his amplifier. I've read that he was using a WEM combo amp back then, but the specific model was never mentioned. It's pretty hard tracking down a lot of that old gear. I mean, where on earth can you find a Woolworth's Top 20 guitar? I've never seen one in my life! :?

About the re-issue pedals vs. the orginals, I don't have any experience with the MXR ones, but sometimes re-issues can be complete crap and inferior the originals. But I really don't want to start this debate either, as this can vary from product to product.

But I will say that the Fender Jazzmaster guitar reissue from a few years ago is absolute shit. I had nothing but problems with it from day one and ended up selling it. The reissue is completely cheapened down and nothing like the originals, which are worth a small fortune these days. :twisted:

The so called Woolworth's Top 20 was a Silvertone guitar indeed. Loads of copies to be found around... And guess what, here is one !!! http://www.matera.net/guitars/top2024.htm

I've had bad surprises with many reissued effects I wanted to buy (or at least test) after having tried the original versions (that's a musician's sickness : always trying to reach a different sound than the one you should be happy with). As a matter of facts, 90 % of the reissued effects are pure rubbish : they just can't stand the comparison. Reissuing them is just a good way for the manufacturers to full up their pockets and jump in the vintage bandwagon.

As for Fender Jazzmaster reissues, there something I don't get here... I have a few Jazzmasters around (vintage / Japanese Reissues / American Reissues) and I never parted with any. The quality of the instruments is quite the same, wherever they come from. I mean, ok, a Japanese Reissue sounds a little bit weaker than a vintage one, but that can be fixed easily just by buying decent pickups (you may find vintage ones, it's worth investi(gati)ng). Once you've done that, the Japanese luthery is as good as (if not better than) the American Reissue, which are just as good as the vintage models were, really. On a price / quality scale, nothing beats the Japanese.

I don't know what kind of troubles you had with your Jazzmaster, but even if luthery has its pending mysteries, any problem can be tackled easily... I've heard many things about Jazzmasters (once again, wherever they came from), but it's about the first time I read "crap" / "rubbish" / "rip off" about it. Was it just that the sound was not tailored for you ? This guitar sounds in strange ways, sometimes. People just can't get used to it and end up selling it, just because it's not the guitar that was made for them...

Now, compare the Jazzmaster with a Schecter... I can tell you the UltraCure is not a guitar that's made for me. Without touching it, just by looking at it, I know I would never buy one (and listening the results doesn't make want to investigate any further).

Conclusion : what's good to Robert's ears is not anymore for mine...       
When the wise shows the star, the fools look at his finger...

Offline strange_day

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Re: Pedals used for the ending of All Mine '82
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2007, 19:15:19 »
Now, compare the Jazzmaster with a Schecter... I can tell you the UltraCure is not a guitar that's made for me. Without touching it, just by looking at it, I know I would never buy one (and listening the results doesn't make want to investigate any further).

Conclusion : what's good to Robert's ears is not anymore for mine...       

I actually own one and i can certainly tell you that it sounds amazing, its got a big beefy sound. Robert only uses the bridge pickup as far as im aware, that, combined with whatever his amp/pedal settings are make it sound the way it does.

Its got a very powerful sound to it, when i use it with loads of distortion and delay, its great. It plays better than 90% of the guitars ive played aswell, good action with no buzzing. It plays and sounds better than a Gretsch which i tried in a shop, which was more than double the price..........and yes its huge, but thats also great, you dont feel like youre going to break it, im also mainly a bass player so that probably comes into it aswell.
Its definately a love/hate guitar....based on looks and sound, but its a no-nonsense thing unlike these guitars that can produce a million different sounds which every 'proper' musician has to own, i mean really, who cares? As long as it does what you want it to.