Author Topic: keyboards or tapes??  (Read 12396 times)

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Offline Oso Blanco

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2008, 07:35:27 »
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.

While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?

you see, herein lies the problem... incase you hadn't noticed oso , people in this forum treat each other with respect and kindness. We don't always agree, hell, that would be boring, but the confrontational nature of your posts is what people will take umbrage to. Whilst your opinion of this tour, which by your own admission you haven't even BEEN to will not make any difference to the Cure, your self effacing and rude behaviour will leave a lasting impression on the people here. To come into a fan based forum and spit your abuse not only at the band, but the people in the forum, leaves a lot to be desired.
By all means, air your opinions, but please curtail the venomous way you do so.

That's all I did, stating my opinion. It was you and some others who had to take this on a personal level:

Ahhhh, I get it...just comes in here to get a "bite"... *laughing* what a sad person... must have a dreary life really, when you think about it... Now I am aware of this, I shall do what everyone else does, and ignore him... thanks for the heads up scatcat!!  :smth023
Time is the fire in which we burn ...


Offline melly

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2008, 07:48:01 »

ok, I take on board your comment, and I have deleted my post which offended you..and I WILL take my own advice ( and that of others) and ignore your comments, but...

By all means, air your opinions, but please curtail the venomous way you do so.

" Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain "...

Offline closedown

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2008, 09:52:22 »
Either you have to re-arrange the songs to get them done without additional keys, guitars or whatever, or you bring additional players on stage with you. Hidden-under-the-stage-band-members or pre-recorded tapes are crap and an insult to the audience!

can see the point in that, though I won't go as far as insult to the audience, that would be for me, if all the instruments are on tape and pretended to be played.
The Cure have in recent years always used a backing with Roger in the band as well - for example 100 Years since 1997, There Is No If, Prayers For Rain since 2000,...
I don't mind backingtapes at all, being used to it as I listen to quite a variation of other bands that use them as well, as it is impossible to play everything live on stage cause you would need 7 keyboardplayers, 2 percussionists + 3 drummers...
what I definetely think it worse is 'hidden' players, like someone playing synths behind the stage or whatever, that to me is a laugh.
and in these days there is more ways than backingtapes, I am not sure what The Cure use during this tour, but there is in general a huge difference for this method which many still name 'backingtape' although being technially totally different, I try to explain it in a hopefully easy way for all.
1) backing-tape: these days usually digitally recorded either on harddisc or adat (a kind of tapemachine) that replaces the old tapemachines (that could for example been seen on stage in the early years of Depeche Mode, still featured famously in the movie 101) - all sounds that can't be reproduced on stage are on that tape and can clearly be heard for the audience - only difference in different shows will be: the loudness in the whole soundmix
2) sequencer: sounds are preprogrammed for the show in samplers or harddiscsystems, the sequencer will be toyed live with + when it runs, it will trigger off the sounds from the samplers and harddiscs -> a live thing, meaning if a sampler breaks down or a sound it wrongly adressed (say the sequencer says channel 12 and the technician wrongly programmed a stringsysnth for that part instead of a trumpet sound, you will hear stringsynthsound).
3) hidden musician: don't have to comment on that (and to me this is simply b*llsh*t) - if someone plays stuff live why shouldn't he be on stage? always found that extremely annoying with Placebo...

the advantage of the sequencer is: you can be more spontaneous, change stuff in the tour or in the show but having more risk of technical breakdowns and it is way more expensive to use... with adat or similar you can make sure it normally works (especially if using a backup system running along), but you can be sure that a song backing always sounds the same on the whole tour -> the way it was prerecorded onto tape.

as said, I don't mind either of these 2 options, as it is obvious for people what is played on stage (if one cares, of course). but I think fans in general have a different attitude towards these things, e.g. a The Cure fan will definetely react in another way than a James (Bl)(C)unt fan....
I have seen shows with backingtapes that were great (The Mission - using it on songs like Tower Of Strength or Butterfly On A Wheel), I have seen shows with sequencers that were great as well (Depeche Mode, New Order), so it doesn't really matter to me.
the thing that matters for me is the way it is done + I don't think too much backing works too well, always thought that Robert has his problems delivering the song, especially noticed that during No If in the Dream Tour, so many versions simply sounded totally off-key. for me it is a slight bit laughable and I think that is a main point in Oso's words as well, Robert said how much better it would be with just guitars and no need for keyboards and then there is those sequences/backingstuff going on, it is definetely strange... one thing is sure, Cure 2008 is definetely far more relied on backings than Cure 1998...

Offline ElFishski

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2008, 12:16:04 »
When I saw Placebo they had the two extra players on stage with them - they were sort of off to the side and wearing black, not invisible by any means, but clearly second fiddle.  Felt pretty odd... I mean, they're working just as hard to create music for our enjoyment, but somehow they're lesser.  Seems disrespectful towards the other musicians rather than to the audience in my mind.  Was a disappointing concert anyway, we were just a small show in the middle of a very long tour for them...

I don't tend to distinguish between the other options, maybe if I went to more concerts I'd start to think more about but in the meantime I'll just enjoy being there. :D

Offline joqua

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    • forgetting the memory
Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2008, 22:16:02 »
some parts could be looped live, boss makes a loop station, and a loop pedal, that stores loops, porl could be using one, i doubt it, but maybe
the makeshift time i spent living out another bad movie experience


Offline figurehead

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2008, 20:36:45 »
i will be honest
i've enjoyed so much Berlin's & Rome's live shows that i don't really care if they
do use tapes or a hidden member.
I prefer them playin live for as long as they can & the final result is good (or shall i say excellent?)
in my ears & my eyes...
'Is It Always Like This?'

Offline MeltingMan

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Re: keyboards or tapes??
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 11:04:36 »
Either you have to re-arrange the songs to get them done without additional keys, guitars or whatever, or you bring additional players on stage with you. Hidden-under-the-stage-band-members or pre-recorded tapes are crap and an insult to the audience!

can see the point in that, though I won't go as far as insult to the audience, that would be for me, if all the instruments are on tape and pretended to be played.
The Cure have in recent years always used a backing with Roger in the band as well - for example 100 Years since 1997, There Is No If, Prayers For Rain since 2000,...
I don't mind backingtapes at all, being used to it as I listen to quite a variation of other bands that use them as well, as it is impossible to play everything live on stage cause you would need 7 keyboardplayers, 2 percussionists + 3 drummers...
what I definetely think it worse is 'hidden' players, like someone playing synths behind the stage or whatever, that to me is a laugh.
and in these days there is more ways than backingtapes, I am not sure what The Cure use during this tour, but there is in general a huge difference for this method which many still name 'backingtape' although being technially totally different, I try to explain it in a hopefully easy way for all.
1) backing-tape: these days usually digitally recorded either on harddisc or adat (a kind of tapemachine) that replaces the old tapemachines (that could for example been seen on stage in the early years of Depeche Mode, still featured famously in the movie 101) - all sounds that can't be reproduced on stage are on that tape and can clearly be heard for the audience - only difference in different shows will be: the loudness in the whole soundmix
2) sequencer: sounds are preprogrammed for the show in samplers or harddiscsystems, the sequencer will be toyed live with + when it runs, it will trigger off the sounds from the samplers and harddiscs -> a live thing, meaning if a sampler breaks down or a sound it wrongly adressed (say the sequencer says channel 12 and the technician wrongly programmed a stringsysnth for that part instead of a trumpet sound, you will hear stringsynthsound).
3) hidden musician: don't have to comment on that (and to me this is simply b*llsh*t) - if someone plays stuff live why shouldn't he be on stage? always found that extremely annoying with Placebo...

the advantage of the sequencer is: you can be more spontaneous, change stuff in the tour or in the show but having more risk of technical breakdowns and it is way more expensive to use... with adat or similar you can make sure it normally works (especially if using a backup system running along), but you can be sure that a song backing always sounds the same on the whole tour -> the way it was prerecorded onto tape.

as said, I don't mind either of these 2 options, as it is obvious for people what is played on stage (if one cares, of course). but I think fans in general have a different attitude towards these things, e.g. a The Cure fan will definetely react in another way than a James (Bl)(C)unt fan....
I have seen shows with backingtapes that were great (The Mission - using it on songs like Tower Of Strength or Butterfly On A Wheel), I have seen shows with sequencers that were great as well (Depeche Mode, New Order), so it doesn't really matter to me.
the thing that matters for me is the way it is done + I don't think too much backing works too well, always thought that Robert has his problems delivering the song, especially noticed that during No If in the Dream Tour, so many versions simply sounded totally off-key. for me it is a slight bit laughable and I think that is a main point in Oso's words as well, Robert said how much better it would be with just guitars and no need for keyboards and then there is those sequences/backingstuff going on, it is definetely strange... one thing is sure, Cure 2008 is definetely far more relied on backings than Cure 1998...
Well said,but I'm not sure,if these procedures,strictly speaking,are no more than "coffin nails"
for a live show.The impression of a reeled off program is a bit uncomfortable and the whole subject
turned into a question of faith for every serious fan.
Wenn das Spätjahr kommt, werf ich mich in einen
Wagen, ziehe die Decke des Wagenleders hoch zu
meinem Kopf, hülle mich in einen Mantel - so daß nur
meine Augen übrig bleiben, mit denen nach Euch ich
greife.
(Sören Kierkegaard)

 

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