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Who is your favourite The Cure drummer?

Author Topic: Jason Cooper - A study of his style  (Read 47478 times)

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Offline DrumStudy

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Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« on: August 08, 2008, 05:16:32 »
Lot of people complains about Jason drumming. For hardcore fans, he will always be the "NEW" drummer and kind of a "special guest" of the band.

Never before a band member's been so unpopular. Never before a band member's style didn't match with The Cure.

Some guys say that a good indicator of a bad drummer for The Cure, is when the guy uses a pre-recorded track for 100 years (Lol used it and so Jason).

Well, for you all, my serious study of Jason drumming. Probably I will be releasing a couple more in the long term. If you liked it, then subscribe to my videos.

I won't answer to your messages. Sorry. I've done it because I don't have the chance to talk to Robert and tell him what the real fans think about his drummer. And better yet, what is wrong with him. Why his style doesn't fit The Cure and such.

BTW, the music and the "study" begins at 00:23 but read/watch it all!

HERE IS THE LINK TO THE VIDEO. THANKS:


Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2008, 10:48:24 »
wonderful - i mean, awful. :P

you know in a mordib way this really cheers me up on a day that i learned that old bob is collaborating with jared leto, fall out boy & the rest. it reminds me that the downfall of the band started well over ten years ago anyway.
soundtrack for today: 'funeral party'...
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Offline lostflower4

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 11:53:51 »
Oh man, that's just way too funny.

But all too truew. I'm glad someone finally made some sort of evidence/comparisons, because a lot of people obviously don't notice the difference between Jason, Boris, and the drummers before that (all who were better than Jason).

Yes, I think even Lol played with more passion and grace that Jason.

Good job, and thanks for the laugh.

Offline Janko

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 15:31:05 »
Well, no doubt this is funny to watch...

But accusing Jason for the bad state and lousy form the band is in - is a load of BS! Its solely Robert who's to blame, Jason is just a tiny bit more than a session drummer and he has absolutely "no say" in creating music...

1) If the Robert's songs were good - no one would dare to point out Jason's drumming!

and


2) It's Robert who compromised The Cure's status in recent years! There's no drummer so great that could save the band from the ditch they're in!

Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

Offline revolt

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 15:52:20 »
Well, no doubt this is funny to watch...

But accusing Jason for the bad state and lousy form the band is in - is a load of BS! Its solely Robert who's to blame, Jason is just a tiny bit more than a session drummer and he has absolutely "no say" in creating music...

1) If the Robert's songs were good - no one would dare to point out Jason's drumming!

and


2) It's Robert who compromised The Cure's status in recent years! There's no drummer so great that could save the band from the ditch they're in!



I kind of agree with you here. Jason might have his problems in the drumming department, but blaming him for the mistakes in the Cure's carer in recent years is unfair... Even though he sometimes gets to write a song or two: that 'Never' thing from the self-titled album is from him, I think...


Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 16:41:08 »
1) If the Robert's songs were good - no one would dare to point out Jason's drumming!

i have to disagree with some of this. i think the new songs wouldn't be all so bad if the production/remastering just wasn't so utterly horrible. it's simply annoying to listen to any of the new stuff because the production literally (i really mean literally, and not metaphorically) gives you a headache within 10 seconds so you sort of miss the opportunity to try and focus on the songs itself, to even decide if they are good or bad. and that really annoys me most.
and even if the production was ok, i 'm afraid i would still be just as much annoyed by jason's drumming (so yes, i would dare to point it out!). his playing is full of such tiring mannerism that it's almost impossible not to pay attention to it. he is a "mechanical musician" imo, lacks creativity. 

i don't think nobody here accuses jason ALONE for the state of current affairs. but he's one piece in the puzzle and a rather big piece. robert surely is to blame for a lot of silly things recently, up to the point that i feel no urge to defend him at all here. but it's not fair to blame everything on him either: if jason simply took some drumming lessons and learned to do his job better, it wouldn't actually hurt(!).
robert can't drum for him... 
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Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Offline revolt

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 16:48:55 »

robert can't drum for him... 

Actually, I think he can... At least, he is supposed to have helped Tolhurst sometime when Lol was having some trouble in getting it right...  ;)

Offline Cure Freak

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2008, 17:52:52 »
Well, no doubt this is funny to watch...

But accusing Jason for the bad state and lousy form the band is in - is a load of BS! Its solely Robert who's to blame, Jason is just a tiny bit more than a session drummer and he has absolutely "no say" in creating music...

1) If the Robert's songs were good - no one would dare to point out Jason's drumming!

and


2) It's Robert who compromised The Cure's status in recent years! There's no drummer so great that could save the band from the ditch they're in!



I kind of agree with you here. Jason might have his problems in the drumming department, but blaming him for the mistakes in the Cure's carer in recent years is unfair... Even though he sometimes gets to write a song or two: that 'Never' thing from the self-titled album is from him, I think...

And I have to agree with you,both.
To soley put the blame on one musician for the band's mistakes, is ridiculous.

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2008, 17:58:20 »
To soley put the blame on one musician for the band's mistakes, is ridiculous.

well i think you guys might get it a bit wrong(?).
i don't think saying "this is one of the big problems with the cure today" is the same as saying "the cure sucks because of this guy and this guy alone".
there's a difference there...
the video simply points out what's wrong with jason's drumming, as far as i understand it's not intended to point out THE one and only problem with the band (because unfortunately, there are more than this one).
now people want to defend jason by saying "hey but he's not responsible for everything!" - of course he isn't. but that doesn't mean his drumming isn't without problems either.

 
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Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2008, 05:14:08 »
WOW! Excellent job. It must be the first time someone points exactly what is wrong with Jason.

I believe this new album has better songs than WMS, Bloodflowers and The Cure, mainly because Porl is by far a better guitarist than Perry (who is great playing keyboard parts that other past member have done!) and enhances the songs, but there is a big problem with the mix of the songs and a big problem with Jason drumming of course.

All that´s been said in the video it´s truth about the "Jason Style" but the guy forgot to play the cymbals during the intro in Lullaby Wink because this is exactly what Jason does in ALL OF THE SONGS that don´t have drums! Have you noticed that nowadays in all the songs -new and past- the drums never stop? If it´s not the real drums, it´s that click track or some electronic pre-recorded parts behind the song! ANNOYING really.

I understand that when the first complains about Jason began back in 1996, Robert -as a good human being I think he is- wanted to backup him, give him confidence in himself by keeping him in the drumchair, but enough is enough! Robert must look for another drummer now, a real one if Boris can´t play anymore as I´ve heard he has some health problems and I´ve also noticed that he has some problems with one or both of his eyes. Just watch photos and posters from 1992 and in some of them you will notice his eyes are kind of inflamed, then he began using sunglasses. Also watch the acoustic sessions for Greatest Hits, where Boris seems has lost one eye! Do you know something about this?

The Cure is still a good band and of course I will buy their new album hoping for a song as touching as Pictures of you, or Catch or Last dance to name a few...

Offline lostflower4

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2008, 05:35:59 »
All that´s been said in the video it´s truth about the "Jason Style" but the guy forgot to play the cymbals during the intro in Lullaby Wink because this is exactly what Jason does in ALL OF THE SONGS that don´t have drums! Have you noticed that nowadays in all the songs -new and past- the drums never stop? If it´s not the real drums, it´s that click track or some electronic pre-recorded parts behind the song! ANNOYING really.

Yes - and it's EVERY single song, even the ones that shouldn't have percussion during the beginning. It totally kills the dynamic of everything. I think this just proves that Jason is basically a drum machine inside a human body.

But to everyone else:  I don't recall saying that Jason is responsible for current state of The Cure today.

Aside from the bad production on the recent official releases, which is tragic, I actually like most of the new material. Thanks goodness for the live stuff!

The point of the matter is that Jason will always be the wink link in the chain, as his level of musicianship is nowhere near anyone else in the band - and that has always been the case since the day he joined.

I used to see Perry as the other weak link when he took over Porl's live duties, but fortunately this is no longer an issue - so I won't dwell on it.

Please note that I'm NOT saying Jason is a weak songwriter. I never implied this. I'm simply talking about the ability to play instruments. Robert and Porl are amazing guitarists, each in their own way, and Simon is a rock-solid bass player. Jason is, well...

No matter how great or how bad The Cure's songs are (which is all a matter of opinion), there will always be that substandard, mediocre, and sometimes plain bad drumming to go along with it.

I think DrumStudy really proved it, because Jason can't even keep the beat half the time (which is a matter of mathematics, not of personal taste).

"Of course, all errors and displaced beats are there for one purpose: To play like Jason."

:lol:

Maybe I shouldn't be laughing, but after 14 years I think it helps to have a sense of humor about it.


Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2008, 07:54:39 »
This is part of an extense interview to Boris Williams in 1990, that I´ve typed for you because I think it will -maybe- enhance this debate:

Boris Williams might be all but hidden at Cure concerts due to the band´s ever-present smoke machines, but his presence live and on record during the past five years has been considerably felt nonetheless.
Boris´s first album with The Cure, The Head on the door (recorded in 1985), was a turning point for the band. The album provided them with their first hit in America, "In between days", and started a string of increasingly sophisticated, creative, and popular records, including 1987`s Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me and last year`s Disintegration. Their last tour of America saw the band headlining stadium and arena shows across the country, a somewhat ironic turn of events, since Disintegration features the most somber and "non-pop" collection of songs the grupo has recorded since 1982´s Pornography.

Though Boris describes himself as not being a very technical player, that description is a bit misleading. All he means is that he never displays his chops as a means to an end. That kind of playing wouldn´t work in The Cure anyway. What is apparent from his recordings is that he is very adept at coming up with the right percussion part for the song.Boris´s background playing fusion bands in London clubs has provided him with the facility to play the parts he thinks up; one never gets the impression he´s playing the part because that´s all he can play. Every part has a meaning; every part is played that way for a reason.

If we flash back a little farther into Williams´s career we´ll see him gigging around London with fusion bands -a far cry from groups like the Thompson Twins, or specially The Cure, whom Robert Smith still speaks about in the terms of the punk movement. "That was a long time ago", Williams admits. "I actually had a group with Roger O´Donnell, who´s playing keyboards with us now in The Cure. We did a lot of pubgigs and stuff like that. He was into Herbie Hancock, and I really liked Weather Report. I went down that road for a while, but I got fed up with it. I decided I didn´t want to just work on my technique all the time. I´m lazy anyway [laughs] But I decided you can just carry on doing that type of thing. I mean, a lot of drummers really concerned with technique feel they need to sort of use it up in the context of the group or whatever gig they´re doing. And I think most of the time it gets in the way. I´d rather play something that fits in with the meaning of the song. Though I really used to like the Mahavishnu Orchestra. And I still enjoy listening to Weather Report; they´re a brilliant group and they´ve done some good albums that stand out. But most of that kind of music ended up sounding completely bland to me."

"One day I was listening to Steve Gadd or some other drummer who I really liked and then I stopped listening to the drums and started listening to the music, and I thought, ´This is absolute shit!´ It was like ´I might as well be in an elevator´. As a listener, you only get involved in the technique and saying ´Oh, he´s brilliant´. You actually lose touch with the fact that it´s supposed to be something that is trying to communicate with people".

Anyone familiar with either the Thompson Twins or The Cure might wonder if and how Boris´s fusion chops would eventually play a part in his playing with either of those groups. "I suppose most of the time I´m playing underneath my technique", Williams ponders. "It´s not that I think everybody should; I do think it´s good to stretch yourself. The only time I really stretch myself is if we´re doing a soundcheck. But I am glad I played that sort of music, because it´s all come in handy. Everthing you learn is a bonus, even if you don´t actually use it directly".

"The Thompson Twins´ attitude in a sense was so completely opposite to mine. I mean, they cheated, if you like, so much," he laughs, "by using sequencers and drum machines on stage. I used a click track because I used a hell of a lot of tapes on stage. That was a really good discipline for me in a way, though.
"The worst time, we were playing in London, and it was right at the end, during "Hold me now", which was a big single then. So it was at the peak of the show, and the tape started slowing down more and more and more; and of course everything that we were actually playing -the actual live parts- were completely out of tune with what was on tape, and I was thinking, ´Please turn the tape machine off´. They did eventually".

The interview continues with Boris talking about how he joined The Cure, how Porl asked him to play with them his first show, his drum setup, how Disintegration was recorded, anecdotes, etc. and a study of Boris drumming in Close to me, Last Dance and Fascination Street.

I´ve read opinions of young fans who say that Jason has better technique than Boris, but all I´d like to say is that if what Jason has is called "good technique" then The Cure doesn´t need it! and thanks to the interviewer and by Boris´s words we can understand why he came up with such wonderful drum patterns for all of us to enjoy  :smth023


Online dsanchez

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2008, 19:14:43 »
Boris was the best Cure drummer. He's a highly skilled musician, in my opinion.

However, I wouldn't say Jason is bad, but I would just be happy if the old Cure songs were played like before. I don't know who had the "great" idea to add sequences to Push, for instance, but it might be Jason's idea? Also, have anyone noticed the beginning of "Boys don't cry"? If you let the drums alone, I wouldn't know that the 2008 version of Boys don't cry is indeed Boys don't cry (see attached for a comparison between the 1992 version and the strange 2008 version) :?

(2008 sample is from jb's recording)

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Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2008, 19:52:39 »
Boris have been the best Cure drummer. He's a highly skilled musician, indeed.

I wouldn't say Jason is bad. I'm not a musician myself. But I would just be happy if the old Cure songs were played like always. I don't know who had the "great" idea to add sequences to Push, but it may be Jason's idea? Also, have anyone noticed the beginning of "Boys don't cry"? If you let the drumms alone, I wouldn't know that the 2008 version of Boys don't cry is indeed Boys don't cry (see attach for a comparison between 1992 version and the strange 2008 version) :?

(2008 sample is from jb's recording)

Hahaha! Jason´s version of BDC sounds EXACTLY as DrumStudy says is the "Jason Style"! EXACTLY THE SAME! Incredible!  :D   :smth023

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2008, 11:32:09 »
Boris have been the best Cure drummer. He's a highly skilled musician, indeed.

I wouldn't say Jason is bad. I'm not a musician myself. But I would just be happy if the old Cure songs were played like always. I don't know who had the "great" idea to add sequences to Push, but it may be Jason's idea? Also, have anyone noticed the beginning of "Boys don't cry"? If you let the drumms alone, I wouldn't know that the 2008 version of Boys don't cry is indeed Boys don't cry (see attach for a comparison between 1992 version and the strange 2008 version) :?

(2008 sample is from jb's recording)


Hahaha! Jason´s version of BDC sounds EXACTLY as DrumStudy says is the "Jason Style"! EXACTLY THE SAME! Incredible!  :D   :smth023


yeah it's incredible indeed. i'd kind of want to roll with laughter too - unless it was so tragic.

@patitodark:
thanks for the interview with boris. good reading and not so easy to find interviews with him. where was this interviewprinted+ (i wonder if you would be able to scan the complete article, perhaps?)
by the way i sometimes noticed the eye thing too, that his eyes looked watery/red-ish. but i never even got to think it might have had something to do with his health or his departure.  too bad if that's really true, that he's been having some health issues.
 
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