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Who is your favourite The Cure drummer?

Author Topic: Jason Cooper - A study of his style  (Read 47385 times)

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Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2008, 11:40:44 »
sorry if i veer off but just trying to find some humorous aspects in this.
the cowbell part in 'lullaby' got me rolling, also reminded me about this classic piece of "cowbell solos".
now, all you have to do is to imagine the cure playing 'lullaby' instead of BOC and will ferrell playing jason:  :lol:




"i've got a fever, and the only prescrption (or, should i say the cure ;)) is more cowbell!"

 :smth043
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Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2008, 20:34:17 »
Boris have been the best Cure drummer. He's a highly skilled musician, indeed.

I wouldn't say Jason is bad. I'm not a musician myself. But I would just be happy if the old Cure songs were played like always. I don't know who had the "great" idea to add sequences to Push, but it may be Jason's idea? Also, have anyone noticed the beginning of "Boys don't cry"? If you let the drumms alone, I wouldn't know that the 2008 version of Boys don't cry is indeed Boys don't cry (see attach for a comparison between 1992 version and the strange 2008 version) :?

(2008 sample is from jb's recording)


Hahaha! Jason´s version of BDC sounds EXACTLY as DrumStudy says is the "Jason Style"! EXACTLY THE SAME! Incredible!  :D   :smth023


yeah it's incredible indeed. i'd kind of want to roll with laughter too - unless it was so tragic.

@patitodark:
thanks for the interview with boris. good reading and not so easy to find interviews with him. where was this interviewprinted+ (i wonder if you would be able to scan the complete article, perhaps?)
by the way i sometimes noticed the eye thing too, that his eyes looked watery/red-ish. but i never even got to think it might have had something to do with his health or his departure.  too bad if that's really true, that he's been having some health issues.

Hi Japanesebaby. About the interview: Boris was interviewed by Modern Drummer magazine in 1990 and most of it can be read here:

http://www.picturesofyou.us/90/boris-interview.htm
(Thanks to the people at picturesofyou.com!)

The Cowbell video was extremely funny! thanks!  :lol:  It seems that that phrase is very popular as I´ve found many parodies about it. I really hate that sound and Jason doesn´t even bother to play it live! Who recommended it? Bruce Dickinson?  :-D

Regarding Boris´s health issue, have you seen the Greatest Hits video where he appears playing percussions while Jason plays the drums? that´s when/where I noticed the issue with one of his eyes.


***Robert keeps Jason on a whim because he doesn´t want to accept that hiring him was a bad decision.***

Offline Bloodflower

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2008, 06:12:30 »
This might be the most mean-spirited thread I've seen here -- in a while, at least.

Jason is THE Cure drummer; you might prefer Boris, but his first recording was in 1985, his last in 1993. That's eight years, and they were a great eight years, but they're gone now. Jason's first recording was released in 1995, his latest in 2008.

13 > 8. Jason is THE Cure drummer. Yay maths....
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.

Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2008, 06:58:32 »
This might be the most mean-spirited thread I've seen here -- in a while, at least.

Jason is THE Cure drummer; you might prefer Boris, but his first recording was in 1985, his last in 1993. That's eight years, and they were a great eight years, but they're gone now. Jason's first recording was released in 1995, his latest in 2008.

13 > 8. Jason is THE Cure drummer. Yay maths....

Hi Bloodflower. Just to clarify that my critics to Jason are targeted to his musical style and contribution to the band, which I think is null. I have nothing against him as a person. I know of many fans that hate him because he is blond and hate his Californian look. I don't.

And I don't see the relation between the amount of years a band member is in The Cure with the quality of his contribution to the band. Lol was 11 years...

Talking about maths and numbers...
During the 8 years Boris was in, the band released 4 masterpieces. Robert was so excited about the great level The Cure reached that released 4 studio albums, and live albums, and great videos too (Orange, Picture Show, Show, etc.)

During the 'Jason-era' -13 years- the band's released just 3 studio albums up to date and a couple of videos.

Anyway, I want to stress that I dont' criticize him because of how he looks but for what he brings to the band.

P.S. I've just heard The Perfect Boy completely and Jason plays EXACTLY as DrumStudy "parodies" him: same beats in the drums, etc. Doesn't it mean something for goodness sake?

Offline Bloodflower

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2008, 10:25:13 »

Hi Bloodflower. Just to clarify that my critics to Jason are targeted to his musical style and contribution to the band, which I think is null. I have nothing against him as a person. I know of many fans that hate him because he is blond and hate his Californian look. I don't.

Anyway, I want to stress that I don't criticize him because of how he looks but for what he brings to the band.


Which is good and fine -- I don't think anyone but Robert [and then, probably only ostensibly] contests that Boris is the most talented drummer The Cure ever had. It just feels like this thread is less about criticism than mockery. It seems mean-spirited. And I guess that just doesn't sit well with me.

HOWEVER!

Carry on....
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.


Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2008, 12:40:32 »
This might be the most mean-spirited thread I've seen here -- in a while, at least.

maybe i see things differently because i'm a musician myself. but i don't think it's mean-spirited. people seem to think it's about laughing to jason cooper the person - it's not. nobody's lauhging at his personality, him as a human being or something. it's just an analysis of his style.
(i have a feeling that people confuse the two also elsewhere on this forum recently...)

when youre' a musician (or other kind of performing artist) you put yourself out there as an artist. it's totally normal in the world of musicians to pay attention to this sort of things, even sarcastically. if people lose their nerve about getting bashed a bit like this, then they might just have a poor sense of humour. of course there's a limit, after which the thing goes over the top... but as long as it's based on facts (like here) then there're grounds for it. now, i'm NOT saying it's perfectly ok to laugh at people or something. if someone made a similar video where he/she paid attention to how jason looks like and made fun of that, then that would be mean-spirited. but to analyze his playing style is not analyzing his personality. two different things.
the video here grew out of frustration of some artists mannerism. what's so wrong in pointing it out? (hey you should here how musicians talk about each other, on a regular basis.... and not just enemies, even when they respect each other(!) ;))

just my opinion, of course.   


by the way, i've sometimes thought about making a youtube video by collecting together all the various places in the live shows where robert screws up a guitar solo/a riff. have you ever noticed how when he screws up, he has the tendency to try and "fake" it was an intentional improvisation? once you notice it it's actually really annoying.*)
so even though robert is one of the best guitarists i know i would not think i was mean-spirited if i made such a video/collection. it wouldn't be my intention to make everyone point and laugh at him, just to make people to pay attention into something. yet i'm sure if i made the video there would be a lot of people saying i'm being mean and evil. hmm?

*) i think i originally started paying attention to it because lol pointed it out somewhere during the famous court cases lol vs. the cure. and lol was just absolutely right in that, i think!
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Offline Cure Freak

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2008, 13:47:04 »
To soley put the blame on one musician for the band's mistakes, is ridiculous.

well i think you guys might get it a bit wrong(?).
i don't think saying "this is one of the big problems with the cure today" is the same as saying "the cure sucks because of this guy and this guy alone".
there's a difference there...
the video simply points out what's wrong with jason's drumming, as far as i understand it's not intended to point out THE one and only problem with the band (because unfortunately, there are more than this one).
now people want to defend jason by saying "hey but he's not responsible for everything!" - of course he isn't. but that doesn't mean his drumming isn't without problems either.

 
You are still targeting one musican, instead of the whole.
Jason only represents a small part.And,of course, he has made mistakes. But, they the rest of the band has to. And I can understand the criticsizing of his playing. Being an arttist, I deeply accept, it. It helps me to improve and to do better. But, will Jason ever see this video?  And why not do the same for the other members.


Offline patitodark

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2008, 18:18:54 »
Of course any member can make mistakes but the main thing with Jason aren't his mistakes but his way of playing the drums, where his fills and arrangements are ALWAYS THE SAME for each song he plays in! he makes new and old songs sound the same and I hate how he can make the good things Boris made, disappear. Good example of this are Push with the annoying electronic sounds which kills the feeling of the song, same thing with Prayers for Rain, Lullaby, Open (with lots of cymbals in the intro part), Strange day which he's turned almost into a disco beat!, and many many others. Dsanchez gave a great example of Jason's repetitive style too.

In conclusion, I believe his mistakes are not the point here but his boring repetitive drum fills and arrangements for the songs...

About making a video with Robert's mistakes, that is a great idea! a very interesting one which fans will appreciate and will just make us appreciate Robert's charm and naivety in live :smth023

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2008, 19:00:38 »
You are still targeting one musican, instead of the whole.
Jason only represents a small part.And,of course, he has made mistakes. But, they the rest of the band has to. And I can understand the criticsizing of his playing. Being an arttist, I deeply accept, it. It helps me to improve and to do better. But, will Jason ever see this video?  And why not do the same for the other members.

i'm not sure what you mean i should not "target one person". because look, it's already been said that i (or anyone else here either) never said jason is the ONLY problem. he isn't. there are other things that i find problematic about the current line-up's sound, for instance robert's tendency to use nothing else than those dull-sounding shechter guitars.  but this thread is about jason so that kind of defines what i wrote about here. if the video was about "the cure - a study of their style", then it would be different.
i don't know why we should "target the whole" if i am able to point out at least one of the main problems more detailedly?

so why not do the same about other members? well, if there is any reason to be found, then why not. for instance, i could well imagine a similar video that would reveal how awful those shechter guitars sound like - that would be really easy to demonstrate, really! but much more difficult to make such a video about simon, though. for obvious reasons.
so it's not like "ok let's be fair and make similar video from all members then, if we make such from one member". because isn't it pretty clear that if all members only were completely and thoroughly at the top of their game then there would be no reason to make any videos form any of them, not even from jason, right?
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Offline strange_day

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2008, 18:14:22 »
Yawn..... This topic never goes away.  :roll:

If anything that video just really annoyed me, its inaccurate, unfair and made by someone who clearly has waaayyy too much time on their hands.
I could argue it for hours and hours. I understand why people prefer Boris, thats easy, he was there in the 'good old days' and thats fair enough. But i get really sick of the black and white comparisons between the two, that one is perfect and the other always messes up - untrue. They both have different styles and thats what makes it interesting. Yes, Jason uses click tracks and samples, i dont see whats wrong with that, since nearly every drummer in a band that size plays to a click track live. I really like all the little samples of beats in there, it makes for a different version, more contemporary etc. Thats the reason they are there, not because the guy cant play. Look at Underneath The Stars, i think thats done really well.

But this isnt 1989 anymore, let it go, or get up there and do a better job yourself...

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2008, 21:46:32 »
Yawn..... This topic never goes away.  :roll:

some other topics that never go away (whatever the cure forum you go to, any one of them):

'robert's hair'
'disintegration is great'
'WMS sucks'
'robert's shoes'
'simon is cool - and hot'
'we love trilogy!'
'robert's hair, part 2'
'porl sucks'
'porl rules'
'robert's lipstick'
'porl sucks (part II)'
'WMS sucks (again)'
'"the cure" sucks (of course)'
'robert & mary - sweeeeeethearts forever  :smth055'
'disintegraton is the best album ever made, really'
'keyboards vs. no keyboards'
'robert's hair, part3'
'more about keyboards vs. no keyboards'
'robert's... socks?'
'simon is hot'
'simon is cool'
'don't you think that 'it used to be me' should have been an album-track!'
'robert's shoes part 2'
'porl sucks - or rules? whatever'
'robert's hair part... 4000'
etc. etc.


i think i agree, i guess all of the cure boards are pretty boring. let's all take a biiig yawnnnnnnnn and go to sleep....  :smth015  :-D

(we should also stop sharing concerts because most of them have been shared a zillion times already so it's getting kind of repetitive, don't you think?
thus, another yawn....? ;))

my opinion: here on curefans anyone can write what they want to write, however "yawn-ish" the topic was.  :)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine


Online dsanchez

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2008, 21:47:31 »
:smth044
Strangers passing in the street, by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me...

Offline Cure Freak

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2008, 22:23:14 »
Yawn..... This topic never goes away.  :roll:

If anything that video just really annoyed me, its inaccurate, unfair and made by someone who clearly has waaayyy too much time on their hands.
I could argue it for hours and hours. I understand why people prefer Boris, thats easy, he was there in the 'good old days' and thats fair enough. But i get really sick of the black and white comparisons between the two, that one is perfect and the other always messes up - untrue. They both have different styles and thats what makes it interesting. Yes, Jason uses click tracks and samples, i dont see whats wrong with that, since nearly every drummer in a band that size plays to a click track live. I really like all the little samples of beats in there, it makes for a different version, more contemporary etc. Thats the reason they are there, not because the guy cant play. Look at Underneath The Stars, i think thats done really well.

But this isnt 1989 anymore, let it go, or get up there and do a better job yourself...

I'm totally with you there. Especially the last sentence.
 :smth023

Offline strange_day

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2008, 22:51:06 »
Yawn..... This topic never goes away.  :roll:

i think i agree, i guess all of the cure boards are pretty boring. let's all take a biiig yawnnnnnnnn and go to sleep....  :smth015  :-D

(we should also stop sharing concerts because most of them have been shared a zillion times already so it's getting kind of repetitive, don't you think?
thus, another yawn....? ;))

my opinion: here on curefans anyone can write what they want to write, however "yawn-ish" the topic was.  :)

I knew id get severe bashing for that, oh well, i dont care, were all entitled to opinions like you say.

I dont think the boards are boring at all, or i wouldnt be here ;) Im very greatful for places like this, You know that anyway.... the yawn was care of the sanctimonius one way Jason-bashing that goes on.  :smth021

I still stand by what i say anyhow   :smth045 :smth023

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Jason Cooper - A study of his style
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2008, 23:34:16 »
I knew id get severe bashing for that, oh well, i dont care, were all entitled to opinions like you say.

what bashing? :? seriously people, did we all somehow misplace our sense of humor lately or what? ;)
(by that i don't mean you have to find that video humorous or even like it - if you don't like it then that's fine, that's your response to it. i just mean let's not be so sensitive towards each other... ok? because my list of all those "other yawn-ish" things was supposed to be humorous, in a way...)

i don't think the boards are boring either. i just wanted to say that there are SO many things that people keep talking about (and on all cure forums, not just here!) over and over and over again... so many things that we can renounce with a "yawn" because they've been discussed a zillion times. but still, people keep talking about them - and there's nothing wrong with that.
i mean, you find jason bashing boring - fine. i find praising jason boring - fine.
but which one of these opinions is "less boring" or "more boring"?

please correct me if i'm wrong but i almost feel like you were already prepared to "get bashed" because for some reason you thought "on this forum you need to bash jason" or seomthing. i mean, what is all that? that's not at all what this place is about. we don't need to shout "WE think like this and we all agree here wow aren't we so cool! (+a smiley of your choice)" here. i'd be more than happy to leave all that to some other forums.
 

I still stand by what i say anyhow   :smth045 :smth023

and why wouldn't you? i'm not talking to just you, but people seem to be so sensitive (these days?), like every disagreeing comment was a challenge to a duel or something, a sign to put up your guards and get ready to defend the fortress!  :smth066
i mean, what happened to people's will to just discuss, exchange ideas, compare impressions and especially try to describe why they feel so and so about something?
let's not get so pissed about everything in five secs. we can be committed and we can be sincere without being defensive at the same time.

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine


 

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