Author Topic: The loudness war  (Read 4349 times)

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Online dsanchez

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The loudness war
« on: October 28, 2008, 01:28:53 »
Ok, simple question. Why "remaster" this way? What's the reason behind it? If we all know it's simply bad, why the music industry lately follow this trend?
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Offline mahood

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Re: The loudness war
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 01:45:55 »
because the music industry has nothing to do whatsoever with music ?
because the i-pod-i-tunes-i-ndustry succeeded in telling labels that was important was the way music could be heard on cheap laptop speakers or small headphones during a subway trip or on your brand new car with integrated audio system ? because music is just the background hum of rupert murdoch's myspace.com ? because so-called independant labels don't care either, since it all started with an oasis album on creation --- yes, the same one who released my bloody valentine and slowdive ?
hard to tell.

all in all, what's so strange is that it's some sort of a reverse process : because i have discovered music --- and good production too --- on awful devices, that could only give you an indication of the sound this music could produce on better equipments, which took me years to acquire, but each time it was worth it. and still, on the worst player, you could have some idea of the sound.
then i first heard the only one on my laptop speakers, and thought : oh, this seems OK (whatever i think of the song per se) --- it was only when i put it on my audio system that it started to sound awful.
reverse process as i said, because i naively thought this was supposed to go the other way.

fortunately enough, there are still plenty of labels & musicians who don't think this way, but this shouldn't happen anyway.
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Offline japanesebaby

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Re: The loudness war
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2008, 20:20:35 »

all in all, what's so strange is that it's some sort of a reverse process : because i have discovered music --- and good production too --- on awful devices, that could only give you an indication of the sound this music could produce on better equipments, which took me years to acquire, but each time it was worth it. and still, on the worst player, you could have some idea of the sound.
then i first heard the only one on my laptop speakers, and thought : oh, this seems OK (whatever i think of the song per se) --- it was only when i put it on my audio system that it started to sound awful.
reverse process as i said, because i naively thought this was supposed to go the other way.

points well made.
what is really saddening and alarming these days is to read the internet and see people advicing each other how to listen to this "new music". if someone says it sounds bad there's always someone telling him/her to try listen to it with poorer equipment, under poorer listening conditions. people are honestly encouraging each other to stop looking for ideal, enjoyable listening conditions. people are encouraging each other to only stick to some crappy ipod headphones or computer speakers or car stereos and saying "it's not that bad if you listen to it that way".  "it doesn't sound so bad when you have all kinds of background noise there" - just like everything was meant only for your i-pod in the rush our subway.
hey wtf??

and by the way, it's almost ridiculous to think of that and then think how people mostly have better and better quality hifi stereo equipment at home. i also started to listen to music with a really poor equipment (because that was all there as available at the time). but times have changed a lot form those days.... and today almost everyone either has some pretty good sound system or at least possibility to get one. the equipment has developed a lot and become more and more easily available. you don't need to be a millionaire to have a surround system at home etc. etc. so, the equipment is better and better and easily available - but at the same time the music itself gets worse and worse. now that's a really baffling equation!  :?



fortunately enough, there are still plenty of labels & musicians who don't think this way, but this shouldn't happen anyway.

fortunately, there still are. but what saddens me today is that the times when you could just go and pick and enjoy any music you wanted seem to be over. today there's too much music that you would really like to listen to but you just really can't because it's too unpleasant experience and you don't want to torture yourself.
so it shouldn't happen anyway.


anyway, one must be an idealist (otherwise the whole life makes no sense and it's all useless), so:
at least i am waiting for some turn in the tide sometime sooner or later. just listen to the newest metallica album or oasis album: it's all gotten to the limit where they can't push it any further. it's getting so bad already that people will start waking up soon, if it's gets any further than that. people are being sold shitty products and it's going to come up, sooner or later, and there will be more and more demand for better quality.
besides, record labels are (fortunately) already losing their mighty powers and can't clutch and squeeze artists the way they've done so far. it's all mostly thanks to internet, the new distribution methods, the new kind of marketing system. and as the whole distribution of music is going to change, perhaps this thing will also start changing? well, who knows.
until then, there's luckily still lots of music that sounds good. until then we can enjoy that.

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Offline crowbi_wan

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Re: The loudness war
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 20:48:08 »

what is really saddening and alarming these days is to read the internet and see people advicing each other how to listen to this "new music". if someone says it sounds bad there's always someone telling him/her to try listen to it with poorer equipment, under poorer listening conditions. people are honestly encouraging each other to stop looking for ideal, enjoyable listening conditions. people are encouraging each other to only stick to some crappy ipod headphones or computer speakers or car stereos and saying "it's not that bad if you listen to it that way".  "it doesn't sound so bad when you have all kinds of background noise there" - just like everything was meant only for your i-pod in the rush our subway.
hey wtf??


Well this seems like a carry over from a question I had asked you about headphones vs. speakers.  I think the album sounds like ass through headphones.  Really, it does.  It's awful.  And one would think it should sound better since that's the means that so many people are listening to music these days.  To my ears the new album sounds better when played at a moderate level on speakers (be it my stereo, computer, or car).  By no means am I saying it sounds good, or even "not that bad", just that it's tollerable.  I wasn't attempting to convince you that you should play the album with background noise.  That's rediculous!  Just curious if your ears were hearing the same thing?

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: The loudness war
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 21:18:10 »
actually, i wasn't referring to what you said the other day. perhaps that reminded me of this with something you said, i admit that much, but i was talking more in general here. if one goes about the internet and reads various forums where people discuss various new albums whenever there's an album that has been badly mastered/produced and whenever someone points it out this sad state of things, there's always someone coming and saying that people should shut up and "just be super-happy with that anything/something" and that they should stop being such hi-fi freaks - yeah, you always end up getting accused of being a hi-fi freak, that's something that is guaranteed. but it's also completely false in most cases, a complete misunderstanding! because most people who point out these flaws in the modern idiotic way to produce albums are not hi-fi freaks (whatever those are) at all but just people who would just like to enjoy quality sound - to get a decent product in return for their money instead of being handed this crap we get today. :!:

i meant that it's just saddening that a lot of people (i wasn't talking about you) somehow feel like they need to defend this terrible development, keep telling each other that we just have to be happy what we get and shut up - because why should they defend such a thing? they really shouldn't and it makes no sense that they do! because instead of trying to advice each other to give up ideal listening conditions people should get up and say "ok now, this is enough, stop feeding up this bulls***".
and yeah, call me an idealist there... but if enough people said it it would have some effect in the end.
and even if it never had any effect at all or not, that's not even the point. the point is that people shouldn't defend something that is clearly a complete bullshit development. we the people who buy music, we the music consumers do not owe anything to the industry, we don't need to worship at their feet and think everything they say and do for us is great and everything they decide is awesome and worth defending for/worth accepting and getting used to. because some things are not.
it just saddens me that so many people take the side of the record labels (even if it happens unconsciously/passively) - the labels who are actually screwing everyone because they are selling people this crap they call music.

anyway, i wasn't talking about this forum or cure forums only, i was talking about things in general.

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Offline lostflower4

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Re: The loudness war
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 18:21:56 »
anyway, one must be an idealist (otherwise the whole life makes no sense and it's all useless), so:
at least i am waiting for some turn in the tide sometime sooner or later. just listen to the newest metallica album or oasis album: it's all gotten to the limit where they can't push it any further. it's getting so bad already that people will start waking up soon, if it's gets any further than that. people are being sold shitty products and it's going to come up, sooner or later, and there will be more and more demand for better quality.

Say what one will about the "new" Guns N' Roses, or GNR in general, but I think this is great news:

http://www.gunsnroses.us/news/spip.php?article216

http://www.gatewaymastering.com/gateway_LoudnessWars.asp


I would never have never expected this. I saw this album at the store a few months ago, and I remember thinking how it must be some overcompressed garbage (which is what I think every time a see a new album  :twisted:).

Perhaps this is a sign of better things to come in the future!  :smth023

 

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