drugs

[temptation-cure]

Robert mention about the composition of the "The Top" album that it was fueled by magic mushroom tea.
Don't know what he meant specifically but certantly some kind of drug

mushroom tea is made of a kind of mushroom that act like xtc just it has not cafeine but u can alucinate and have very worst trips ever...

[japanesebaby]

Okay, I understand and actually do agree with you now.  Yes, I know...it's amazing!   

Drugs have inspired me to the point of trying to do something creative, yet nothing has come from it.  Talent, hard work, and the want to create something are key.       

i guess 99% of it is work. that's the crap part that no-one ever really talks about because it's so unglorious (is that a word? :-P) and simply, so dull.

and yes, i'm actually forever amazed that 'pornography' is such an amazing album. considering everything, it could just as well be the crappiest thing they ever made and it could have been the end of the whole band. it almost should have been... and yet it wasn't! sometimes i don't get that!

just it has not cafeine but u can alucinate and have very worst trips ever...

...ok i think i'll pass! i'll stick to my good ol' (boring) coffee...

[Poe]

But yes, drugs are bad...except for pot           

Oh don't tempt me, I'm already way too distracted by things that only exist in my head as it is...

Anyhow, if we're not finished with this subject already, I'd like to draw a parallel to this "drugs and creativity" business: there are many musicians who write some of their best songs during times of extreme hardship, like when their mother suddenly dies away in a car accident or something equally traumatic. Does that mean you should seek out similar intense situations to put you in the right creative mood, as in, for instance, by letting your father "have a little accident"? I'm not saying musicians don't "manipulate" their surroundings in order to create more easily, but if drugs do "help", as some would say, then how far can you go without it being...cheating? Athletes, who just need a little boost to get to their goal, get busted for using performance-enhancing drugs; what about the latest MTV award winners? They're making money out of this after all...

Okay, maybe that wasn't the most sensible contribution to this discussion (japanesebaby, always spot on), but there you go. I guess we'll all end up saying "inspiration" is a very relative term.

By the way, all of this is coming from someone who's only contact with the world of drugs is through alcohol (yeah it's a drug!), which I've only tried once, a couple of years ago. Longest night of my life, hardly ever felt so disconnected to my body while giggling away like a buffoon. Always that bad the first time? Anyhow, I hate the taste, still, so I'm not forcing myself to do anything. I'd much rather spend my money on bungee-jumping or a round of paintball than something to pickle my liver in anyway. I usually hang out in crowds with other types of addictions, or I just stay sober when my friends get drunk so I can laugh at them in all sincerity...

[crowbi_wan]

Robert mention about the composition of the "The Top" album that it was fueled by magic mushroom tea.
Don't know what he meant specifically but certantly some kind of drug

mushroom tea is made of a kind of mushroom that act like xtc just it has not cafeine but u can alucinate and have very worst trips ever...

I'd say it's more like acid then ecstasy.  And "worst strip ever" or best trip ever?     

[~*CherryRed*~]

Drugs....
Well, for what it's worth, in my experience, drugs opened my mind and during my 'druggie' days, I produced some really weird/wonderful stuff (even if I do say so myself!!!  ).

I agree with Erik that the lyrics and even the music the band are producing of late has lost something. I often thought to myself that they must be laying off the drugs!! I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought.
When I started to listen to The Cure LP, I noted with dismay the number of repeated lines/words etc... and to me that says there is a lack of inspiration to write. Repetitive choruses are a killer in my opinion! And Wild Mood Swings??? Hmm...

I used to draw/paint and write loads during my (as I call it) 60's phase. But now as my drug use has basically stopped, so has my desire to draw/paint. I do still write, but it's lost something. Perhaps it can be attributed to maturity... but I say it's due to the lack of drugs basically!

I really believe drugs are a good thing for artists. Some of you may be horrified by this statement, and I can understand that. Drugs are dangerous for some personality types, but for the majority of people that do dabble (like myself) they come through the experience unscathed and having  lived!

And in the case of Mr Smith & Co. they produced some really wonderfully original music! Mr Pink Eyes is a fantastic song, and is about Mr Smith's drug use! All those b-sides from that time period are unique... even The Glove's music is, and you can't tell me that Mr Smith and Mr Severin weren't sniffing/smoking/shooting up during the writing of Blue Sunshine!?!

I should say here that I have a few junkie mates, and I do see how they suffer with it. But then when you get into statistics, they are in the minority and most people do survive their drug taking days. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for my mates, as they decided to continue their drug usage, and only have themselves to blame for the way their lives have turned out. No one forced them to stick the needle in.

[temptation-cure]

Robert mention about the composition of the "The Top" album that it was fueled by magic mushroom tea.
Don't know what he meant specifically but certantly some kind of drug

mushroom tea is made of a kind of mushroom that act like xtc just it has not cafeine but u can alucinate and have very worst trips ever...

I'd say it's more like acid then ecstasy.  And "worst strip ever" or best trip ever?     

oh pls go and buy and smelt some "coca" LOL

[japanesebaby]

I really believe drugs are a good thing for artists.

i don't. i think it's a myth. or, it can be seen good for an amateur artist: it can encourage people who don't generally create that much to create something, all of a sudden. but for a professional artists, it's not good. i'm convinced of that. i know quite a lot of professional artists (through my own profession), both musicians and other, and all of them who got too much into any sort of drugs only suffered. their art and skill only went down and deteriorated in the end, i know some really sad cases. some of them became totally incapable of continuing their profession anymore. and that made them completel wrecks because their art was everything they had in life. then they lost that too. that's awful. i really don't know anyone who somehow "benefited" from taking drugs in the long run. whether it was drugs or just alcohol, the ones who used it too much were only ruined.

so really, it's just a myth. to be a professional artist and to make a living out of it is really hard, whatever the field was. i know that myself. you're always out of money and there's always so much insecurity. people glorify it because of course there's the freedom to do whatever you want and express yourself and to be free from nine to five jobs ina goddamn blessing alone - but still, it's pretty damn hard when you look at the everyday side of it. you need to worry about how you pay your rent in every damn month. and so on and s on, it just never stops, that insecurity. so it's f*cking hard unless you're in that 0.00001% percent that really hit the big time and make money. for most others, it's really hard work. and you cannot afford fooling with drugs there, looking for some 'inspiration'  or something. 

it's simply completely different if you're not trying to professional and you can afford to create art as a hobby, just for your own pleasure. then you can maybe say it's "good", because it can give you extra inspiration. it's should i say even almost typical that non-professional artists say they "need" drugs in order to create. but a professional artist shouldn't ever have such a need: because if he really did, he never would have become an artist in the first place!

[Poe]

I agree with Erik that the lyrics and even the music the band are producing of late has lost something. I often thought to myself that they must be laying off the drugs!! I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought.

What would Robert have to say to that, I wonder? It's almost like saying they're nothing without drugs. My guess is it has more to do with their youth, with all sorts of inspiring (non drug-related) things happening around them, that they made their best stuff back then. Furthermore, like I said in an earlier post, Robert has said he used drugs recreationally, not regularly, like some make it sound he did...of course that "not regularly" part is a tad open to interpretation...

I used to draw/paint and write loads during my (as I call it) 60's phase. But now as my drug use has basically stopped, so has my desire to draw/paint. I do still write, but it's lost something. Perhaps it can be attributed to maturity... but I say it's due to the lack of drugs basically!

I'm sorry but that sounds like drug-abuse in its rightful meaning, not just casual dabbling, if you're that dependent on drugs to create...

[~*CherryRed*~]

Perhaps I didn't really make my point very well...
I never meant to say that any of The Cure members are/were junkies.  And that they rely on drugs to write. I have noticed a change/decline in their ability to be unique. And it would seem I'm not alone in this thought. I guess this is a contentious issue?

Using drugs recreationally helps inspire work, no one can deny that, and loads of people have done/do that, thats just the reality. Of course if you use them and your not strong enough to control yourself (your usage) then your in for trouble, and should stay away from them. I personally don't touch pot anymore due to my lack of control over it. So it guess it's understanding your limitations and having strong will power or control over yourself. If you are unfortunate and can't do that, then you'll be come a junkie basically. I can't cry over it.

I wouldn't say at all I'm dependent on drugs to create something. I merely have noticed a lack of originality in the things I do these days. It is most likely older age, as I said... but then I do have to think that the lack of drug 'abuse' would also have something to do with it. It's just something I have noticed in myself. And everyone is different of course.

I understand people's reactions to drug taking, and the 'just say no' thing... but for christ's sake, you could get hit by a car tomorrow... it doesn't mean I'm never going outside again. Live life, "try everything once" is a major mantra of mine. And I'm still here to talk about it.

It's horses for courses, and I know people will disagree vehemently with me on this, so be it.

[Poe]

@ ~*CherryRed*~: Well no, I can't say this subject makes me feel all too comfortable, which may make me a bit biased and "defensive" about it...but I'll hear out any arguments from people who disagree with me without lashing out at them. As long as they don't lash out at me.

Yeah you could say there's been a decline in their work, most people would say it started after Wish. At the same time, it's interesting to note that a couple of people I've met, who have been to a few early Cure shows, say that the band seems much happier nowadays, and display more energy on stage. Despite Robert's, Porl's and Simon's age, they can go on for more than three hours without intermission, night after night! It seems highly unlikely that they're still doing drugs in order to make that happen, so I'll credit all that to pure will, and Rob's insistent refusal to grow up.

[melly]

well said Poe.... Gone are the days of teenage turmoil, (some) drug taking, intense feelings, the highs and very lows of being young and having such an incredible mind as Robert has...
Now, they are older, happier, no huge problems in their lives, and are taking on tours that would kill most of us off!! I feel sad when I read things like they have lost the ability to surprise because they aren't on drugs...I'm just glad they made it through those years, fairly unscathed, and we can love them for who they are today, now....
a group of wild middle aged men having the party of their lives!!!

[Carnage Visor]

I find it extremely foolish and ignorant to attribute success in music and creativity with something so awful and illegal as drugs.

I don't care what you do in your free time, but I for one do not support ANY use of drugs...I view drug usage as a blight, a foolish and harmful thing to do. Not only that, but it has long term effects on the mind, and is...did I mention...ILLEGAL???

Why must I always hear such mixed messages? I turn on the TV, "Drugs kill" is what I hear in commercials and PSAs.I turn to my friend, "Drugs are awesome" is what I hear. It's a wonder I haven't picked up any drugs myself.

As a teenager with depression, I find it harder and harder to find other teenagers like me, who haven't abused substances. This, to me, makes me feel like the odd man out.

Now, to say that Robert's talent is solely BECAUSE he was on narcotics, well that's just ridiculous and immature...not to mention misleading.

It's stuff like that, hearing your favorite musicians are drug-abusers, that turn kids and teens to using drugs themselves. And that, my friends, is not cool. How cool is Kieth Richards? The guy looks like Yoda! And Ozzy Ozbourne can hardly for a sentence!

I school with children addicted to various drugs...some even dabbled in heroine! And believe me, it's no laughing matter. Nobody is cheering them on, and they certainly aren't "BOOMING" with creative genius. If anything, the drugs are making these kids sluggish, lazy, and empty-minded. And it's sad to see such brilliant kids in that state. There's nothing admirable about it.

Sorry if you disagree, don't get the impression that I am forcing on my opinions to you guys. That's not the case at all. I just find drugs as a very tabboo subject, and one that really affects me. I'm not asking anyone to change their ways...just cut the glorifying crap.

[strange_day]

"drugs have dont good things for us.....If you don't believe go home and burn all your records, tapes and cds cause the artists who made the music that has enhanced your life are.................REAL f*cking high on drugs" - Bill Hicks

The whole arguement is won by this statement alone....

Bill Hicks is the man. 

Of course, its a choice, to be honest i dont see why alcohol is legal when you look at how some people react on it.
When people go too far and become addicted to things, i have limited sympathy, they know what they're doing and its a choice.
The band's talent as songwriters has nothing to do with being on drugs, but in the process of creating records The Cure have consumed a hell of a lot. The directions they've taken have often been due to their altered states of mind. You would not have gotten half the good songs and lyrics had Robert et al been totally sober.
Its a moral debate that could go on forever and ever....

[japanesebaby]

Its a moral debate that could go on forever and ever....

whether drugs are good or bad in general and whether people (artists or whoever) should use them is a moral debate, for sure. but whether drugs are seen to have either positive or negative influence/input on artists' output/creativity is not a moral debate. people can have moral - drugs themselves don't have moral. if we talk about how drugs (may) influence art, we can't make it a moral conversation. moral conversation must involve people.
and so, another good question is whether art itself has any moral? the artists certainly do...  but art itself? does the possible morality/immorality of the artist somehow transform/transport into his&her art? does an immoral artist produce immoral art? or does immoral art make an originally fully moral artist suddenly immoral? or the other way round. or, if a piece of art influences someone in an immoral way, is that on the artist's moral responsibility and does the immoral "act" of his art make him immoral too - even if he didn't mean to be immoral in any way? and besides, what if we're talking about descriptive arts (like pianting), music, cinema or theatre - the concept of "moral" differs depending on what field of art we are observing. but how about music? does music have morality? maybe the lyrics do - but music itself certainly doesn't. so actually we should be talking about the morality in literature, rather than in music.
anyway, all that's another conversation i suppose.)



(i'm not entirely sure if this bill hicks means to be sarcastic or not(?). if he's really saying that i should burn my records if i don't agree that drugs are somehow "cool" because they maybe sometimes "inspired" some artists that i like? or if he's implying that artists in general are supposed to be high on drugs to even produce anything artistically?
maybe i get him all wrong but if that's what he's saying then to me he sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about. just another guy wanting to romantisize and glorify drugs and insist that drugs and art has some kind of in-built neural connection, that one can't exist without the other(?). ok maybe i get him all wrong but anyway, to me that's just a load of crap.)

[Poe]

My copy of Join The Dots arrived today, and I read this quote from Robert about Just Say Yes in the booklet:

"Lyrically the idea was a rallying cry for the silent 'Just say yes' majority, because I was as ever sick to death of the dismal 'Just say no' lot."

Which means, I guess, he's advocating the use of drugs...at his age? "Just say yes! Do it now!" Jesus, what's he thinking?! Is it really that black and white for him? I'd love to hear his arguments...Something more substantial(?) than "you might really love it!"

My role-model when it comes to artist's attitude to drugs will always be Zappa. As mentioned in a quote I posted earlier, he was pretty much anti-drugs, and still remained an original, legendary artist. A friend of mine just read his autobiography "The Real Frank Zappa Book", and recommends it warmly. Apparently it's hilarious.