Jason Cooper - A study of his style

Started by DrumStudy, August 08, 2008, 05:16:32

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Who is your favourite The Cure drummer?

dmscheuer

Quote from: MeltingMan on August 15, 2014, 15:38:58
Yes.It's boring and shameful.The same old story again and again and again... :oops:

Funny choice of words! Read my response to the 'Push using sequencers' thread about same old over and over again!

Though I don't exactly love Jason's style, it isn't exactly his fault. It's the decision to use backing tracks.

MeltingMan

Quote from: dmscheuer on August 16, 2014, 01:36:37
Quote from: MeltingMan on August 15, 2014, 15:38:58
Yes.It's boring and shameful.The same old story again and again and again... :oops:

Funny choice of words! Read my response to the 'Push using sequencers' thread about same old over and over again!

Though I don't exactly love Jason's style, it isn't exactly his fault. It's the decision to use backing tracks.
However...I made also an earlier and overall statement under Cure things/Re:keyboards or tapes??
I meant the periodical "Jason bashing" is simply embarrassing,just my opinion.
Après un demi-siècle bientôt d'observation sociale, je me
garderais de dire qu'une chose n'adviendra pas, parce
qu'elle est bizarre, fantastique, même folle! La logique
des choses, disons-nous couramment,
celle-là n'a aucun rapport avec la vie.

(Les amants de Pise, Éd.1912)

Ulrich

Quote from: MeltingMan on August 16, 2014, 10:48:30
I meant the periodical "Jason bashing" is simply embarrassing, just my opinion.

I agree. Nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes and/or unfitting backing tracks from time to time.
But the person who re-started the Jason discussion has 2 posts - both negative. Why would you join a "fan forum" just for bashing?  :smth011
A day without substance, a change of thought
The atmosphere rots with time

patitodark

Even though my brain has learnt to block the drums out of Cure concerts from 1996-now, still it struggles whenever From the Edge of The Deep Green sea is played. Jason turns the drum pattern in an endless repeating mess of lots of notes played between the snare drum and the cymbals.

Imagine a metal guitarist in the band, and the guy playing -out of place- solos throughout the songs. That is how I feel Jason playing for The Cure.
Hear him from 00:45 to 01:21.

Fast forward to 5:39... Reeves' guitar solo is overshadowed by the amount of noise made by Jason.

http://youtu.be/Dr9RxkiZmd0



Ulrich

Quote from: patitodark on August 17, 2014, 19:34:58
Even though my brain has learnt to block the drums out of Cure concerts from 1996-now, still it struggles whenever From the Edge of The Deep Green sea is played.

Just don't watch it then. ;)

Does claudidark happen to be your sister, by the way?  :-D
A day without substance, a change of thought
The atmosphere rots with time

dmscheuer

I think that the discussion/debate still seems to be hanging around after all of these years suggests there is still concern regarding many peoples' (possibly) favorite band? The argument that Jason has been the bands longest running drummer can easily be countered with the argument then why, when he's played on 4 of the band's 13 studio albums, are there so few (ratio-wise) songs  from those albums played live? This may not be entirely Jason's fault, but Robert ( I assume) chooses the playlists. You'd figure roughly 1/3rd of the live set would be Jason-era songs?

Again, I don't think the issue is entirelyJason's fault. The monotony of every (unfortunately now, festival) show sounds EXACTLY the same is due, in part, to the use of backing tracks. For whatever reason, Robert has decided that instead of hiring another musician to tour, he would rather play to backing tracks. This restricts any improvisation whatsoever. It simply can't be done when you are playing to pre-recorded stuff that will end at a precise time. It's also why Jason 'needs' to play during previously drum-free parts of songs. He need's to keep the others 'in time' so that they all wind up at the correct point in the pre-recorded stuff when the drums are supposed to come back in.

However, the 'mis-playings' that are evident in YouTube videos, and more disturbingly official releases, are troublesome. The decision to allow 'Bestival' to be released without either using better performances of 'Open' ( Jason completely missing a fill at the beginning) and 'Why Can't I Be You' ( it actually sounds like Jason fell off his drum stool during the opening, WELL KNOWN, fill) among other things, or editing the performances, or even re-recording them is laziness and apathy on RS's part IMHO. And whoever decided that the drums should sound so
tiny should be sacked. Even comparing to other 'contemporary' act's live stuff, the drums sound ( not just  performance) is waaaay out of whack compared to the (attempted) emotion of the music

Ulrich

Quote from: dmscheuer on August 18, 2014, 02:56:23
... why, when he's played on 4 of the band's 13 studio albums, are there so few (ratio-wise) songs  from those albums played live? This may not be entirely Jason's fault, but Robert ( I assume) chooses the playlists.

In an interview I think RS told that he and Simon pick the setlists. The reason (in my humble opinion) has nothing to do with Jason or drumparts, but with "nostalgia", as most people want to hear the old stuff...  :roll:
A day without substance, a change of thought
The atmosphere rots with time

MeltingMan

Quote from: Ulrich on August 18, 2014, 09:34:33
Quote from: dmscheuer on August 18, 2014, 02:56:23
... why, when he's played on 4 of the band's 13 studio albums, are there so few (ratio-wise) songs  from those albums played live? This may not be entirely Jason's fault, but Robert ( I assume) chooses the playlists.

In an interview I think RS told that he and Simon pick the setlists. The reason (in my humble opinion) has nothing to do with Jason or drumparts, but with "nostalgia", as most people want to hear the old stuff...  :roll:
That's the crunch.The only solution,at least as attempt,is the continuation and improvement of
the Trilogy-concept,with all possible consequences (higher ticket prices,rarer concerts) and not an irritating personnel discussion.
Après un demi-siècle bientôt d'observation sociale, je me
garderais de dire qu'une chose n'adviendra pas, parce
qu'elle est bizarre, fantastique, même folle! La logique
des choses, disons-nous couramment,
celle-là n'a aucun rapport avec la vie.

(Les amants de Pise, Éd.1912)

cheyler

#98
QuoteIn an interview I think RS told that he and Simon pick the setlists. The reason (in my humble opinion) has nothing to do with Jason or drumparts, but with "nostalgia", as most people want to hear the old stuff...  :roll:


You just reminded me of the bit in 'Play Out' when RS asks "who's got the set list" and Boris pulls it out of his pocket and RS looks at it and says "whoa, are you sure?".  Very funny.  Maybe Boris used to pick 'em?  Or have more to do with it anyway.

cheyler

#99
QuoteAnd whoever decided that the drums should sound so [/size]tiny should be sacked. Even comparing to other 'contemporary' act's live stuff, the drums sound ( not just  performance) is waaaay out of whack compared to the (attempted) emotion of the music


The drum sound is a huge variable.  It seems over the last 5 years that almost every time the band is captured on video, Jason is playing a different brand of drumkit.  Not every obviously but you get the idea.  Sometimes the drums sound awful (the Coachella Festival in 2009) and sometimes they sound spectacular (NME Big Gig...also 2009).  A lot of that has to do with different sound crews, different mikes and/or miking techniques, indoor gig or outdoor gig, that kind of stuff.  The Rome 2008, Charlotte 2008 and MSG 2008 all sound fantastic.  Listening to tapes made out in the crowd, you can hear that Jason's a fairly powerful drummer too, something that doesn't come across on the 'professionally' recorded stuff.

cheyler


Imagine a metal guitarist in the band, and the guy playing -out of place- solos throughout the songs.

Uhh......isn't that what we've got now??




Fast forward to 5:39... Reeves' guitar solo is overshadowed by the amount of noise made by Jason.
http://youtu.be/Dr9RxkiZmd0
[/quote]

That is really funny, hadn't really noticed it on first watching, or hadn't really listened to it in the context outlined in your comment.  Very funny.

patitodark

Quote from: cheyler on August 18, 2014, 21:37:59

Imagine a metal guitarist in the band, and the guy playing -out of place- solos throughout the songs.

Uhh......isn't that what we've got now??

Notice I said "out of place solos" ;)
To me, Reeves does a very acceptable job. I'd like to hear him in a new studio album, so we all can see what he comes up with.


cheyler

I'd like to hear something new too, it'll make a change from the...'inbred' Cure albums over the last decade, somebody new (apart from 'Wrong Number') with a different perspective.  Will always miss Porl though.

patitodark

Quote from: cheyler on August 18, 2014, 21:33:05
Jason is playing a different brand of drumkit.
He began with Yahama, then DW, then Brady and now Natal. With Yamahas his sound was good. With DW he began to sound like he's playing drums made of cardboard.

But not only the drums change but the cymbal too. The worst in 2004, full of china cymbals...

He still can't set himself up with an almost standard cymbal set. Just the china cymbal to his right is the one that is fixed. And also he got rid of the ride cymbal too (thanks God!). A ride cymbal never ever formed part of any other Cure drummer's set before... that was part of The Cure's sound too.

Quote from: cheyler on August 18, 2014, 21:33:05
Not every obviously but you get the idea.  Sometimes the drums sound awful (the Coachella Festival in 2009) and sometimes they sound spectacular (NME Big Gig...also 2009).  A lot of that has to do with different sound crews, different mikes and/or miking techniques, indoor gig or outdoor gig, that kind of stuff.  The Rome 2008, Charlotte 2008 and MSG 2008 all sound fantastic.

Funny how Boris or even Lol didn't have this kind of problems. At least on all the concerts (pro shot & from the audience) that I've watched/heard.

Quote from: cheyler on August 18, 2014, 21:33:05
Listening to tapes made out in the crowd, you can hear that Jason's a fairly powerful drummer too, something that doesn't come across on the 'professionally' recorded stuff.

The thing is that not only power is what The Cure needs, but a drummer with creativity and good musical taste. One that can -among other things, create clever intros and drum patterns, a guy with better feel and respect for the old classic songs... So, The Cure needs a drummer  :twisted:

Now I will listen to my Entreat album from 1990... by the way, Robert did a very bad job remixing and mastering Entreat Plus... he gave Boris the same drumsound as Jason! hahaha AWFUL! overall it sounds like it's been recorded from an AM radio station broadcast or something.

Ulrich

@cheyler: I had to edit some of your posts - please make sure your quotes are intact when posting.

Quote from: cheyler on August 18, 2014, 21:24:33
You just reminded me of the bit in 'Play Out' when RS asks "who's got the set list" and Boris pulls it out of his pocket and RS looks at it and says "whoa, are you sure?".  Very funny.  Maybe Boris used to pick 'em?  Or have more to do with it anyway.

Well I was referring to an interview from 2012 or 2013. No idea who chose older setlists...

Quote from: patitodark on August 19, 2014, 00:30:36
... by the way, Robert did a very bad job remixing and mastering Entreat Plus... he gave Boris the same drumsound as Jason! hahaha AWFUL! overall it sounds like it's been recorded from an AM radio station broadcast or something.

Yeah, indeed some re-masters aren't perfect (same with the "Bestival" cd drum-sound) - you might get the impression either Robert wants drums to sound like this or his hearing has been damaged (probably through all these years listening to loud drums in rehearsal studios etc.!)  :roll:
A day without substance, a change of thought
The atmosphere rots with time