the cure wins loudness war 2008

[japanesebaby]

This was mixed to be played LOUD - So turn it UP!!! 

How I hope that the lousy sound quality of these new tunes are simply the result of "Mix 13" that they're attaching to each single.  For example, on iTunes "The Only One" is listed as The Only One (Mix 13) or something...  I have my fingers crossed.

i remember this quote to be written on disintegration sleeve notes ; and, oh yes, i played it loud 
i had hopes about the mix 13 thing too -hoping it would be the bad thing that would not appear on the album-, but unfortunately these are the tracks that sound less awful (still they sound so, regardless of their qualities --- i for one like freakshow!) when compared to the Bsides.

yes it's scary that especially the b-sides are so badly destroyed too. if only the  "mix 13" a-sides were being crushed but b-sides were better, there might be some hope...
but this spells b-a-d for the whole album now...  :(

[mahood]

yes it's scary that especially the b-sides are so badly destroyed too. if only the  "mix 13" a-sides were being crushed but b-sides were better, there might be some hope...
but this spells b-a-d for the whole album now...  :(

one last hope, although i fear the same thing : lots of b-sides had a very different mix from the singles & albums they were related to : the peak of this was when the 3 singles from wish had very differently mixed b-sides (as far as i remember, there were parts of the same session, or am i wrong?).
even if usually, the "loud" sound is for the album ; the opposite way would be a good idea this time.
i really can't imagine underneath the stars with this sound ; sure, the waves would break, but everything else would too, and so nothing would.

[mahood]

I see it as less self-sabotage and more of a want to adopt a more modern sound. I mean they did the same thing in '87 with Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me being specifically mastered for CD rather than vinyl. And with RS being the infamous control freak that he is I seriously doubt he would ever allow music that he didn't approve of to be officially released.
I don't see it to be so much of an issue anyways. Its not as if they're bastardizing their old recordings with bad modern-style mastering. It's just their new stuff...

i agree, but lost of other artists concerned with the same problem still don't sound that awful - i mean, this time : these two singles, i just can't listen to them.
adopting a modern sound (i.e. commercially speaking) is the most stupid idea anyway : they didn't think about that when recording the so-called trilogy, or disintegration ; and wish was a very personal dialogue with what was happening in the shoegazing scene.
and so you're right, and i'm glad the remasters didn't suffer from this : try to imgine secrets or the caterpillar with this treatment.

[firecrasher]

yes it's scary that especially the b-sides are so badly destroyed too. if only the  "mix 13" a-sides were being crushed but b-sides were better, there might be some hope...
but this spells b-a-d for the whole album now...  :(

I listened to Freakshow on my ipod with a set of good headphones and it clipped so horribly :(

[japanesebaby]

an example from RHCP fans:

http://www.petitiononline.com/RHCPWBCD/petition.html

not sure if it ever accomplished anything but at least they are trying to say something - go sign today! :!:

another thing: for whatever it was worth, the fact is that robert doesn't read us here.
so everyone should go post on the official site (yes, that godforsaken place :|], harrass him about this issue a bit. at least something might catch his eye then... for whatever it's worth.

[lostflower4]

an example from RHCP fans:

http://www.petitiononline.com/RHCPWBCD/petition.html

The band's 1991 album 'Blood Sugar Sex Magik' represents the highest sound quality of any Red Hot Chili Peppers album. It features wonderfully written music, superbly produced, arranged, performed, recorded, mixed, and mastered. The current CD communicates impressively the outstanding performances of the band members during those memorable sessions.


So true. This was one of the first CDs I ever bought, and I always thought it sounded great.

Actually, it does use some limiting/compression to get the levels up - but just to the right point without harming the sound.

And no surprise this was their last "well produced" record, just as is the case with Wish from The Cure. The loudness war had exploded by the time of each band's next album, only a few years later.

Ah, the good old days.  :(

[japanesebaby]

And no surprise this was their last "well produced" record, just as is the case with Wish from The Cure. The loudness war had exploded by the time of each band's next album, only a few years later.

Ah, the good old days.  :(

and the guilty parties...:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/jan/18/pop.music#article

Compromised CDs:

Oasis
(What's the Story) Morning Glory (Creation, 1995)

Exceptionally loud album that forced others to compete in volume.


not a surprise - because anything good ever come out of the britpop scene? :(

[WaxlyMolding]

When I lived in Portland, Maine I used to live down the street from Gateway Mastering (Bob Ludwig's company). This mastering studio does most of the major artists (Springsteen, ect). The local paper featured an interview with one of the sound engineers who said that a lot of the new engineers coming out had been trained to make things as loud as possible (just use compression to keep those peaks down).

Yes, this has been going on since the mid-90's. But most of the stuff since then has been crap to me anyways (good music seemed to die shortly after Nirvana's Nevermind came out)so it hasn't affected me much. I stay away from major label purchasing anyway. I hate the current litigation strategy they employ. Plus if you know how most music contracts work....it's just not something I want my money to fund. But I digress....

I have noticed, however, that this trend has extended a bit to concerts broadcast over TV or FM. Take Coldplay's recent BBC-1 FM broadcast (June 16). Loud as all f*%k and compressed half to death. And it sounds like crap.

[revolt]

Yes, this has been going on since the mid-90's. But most of the stuff since then has been crap to me anyways (good music seemed to die shortly after Nirvana's Nevermind came out)so it hasn't affected me much.

This is quite a strong statement, no? I guess you're not into electronic music at all, then, because in the 1994-1997 period that scene (if we can call it a "scene") was at its creative peak, probably...

Anyway, even if we consider only pop/rock groups and artists that are at least a bit outside the mainstream, you still have a few post-Nevermind things that are wortwhile: Morphine, PJ Harvey, Nick Cave, Tindersticks, Kristin Hirsh / Throwing Muses, Mazzy Star, GYBE!, Tortoise, Einstuerzende Neubauten, Laika, Cat Power, Soul Coughing... Some of these use some electronic devices/sounds and some of these were also active long before Nirvana appeared but they are all good and they all fall in the pop/rock category, I think.

Then, of course, you could also mention pop/rock groups/artits that definitely merge their sound with electronica, like Portishead, Lamb, Lali Puna, Bjork...

And then there´s also the vast world of METAL, which really wasn't killed by Nirvana.

[DroidAKov]

Its funny how in this day and age of super sophisticated technology year after year quality seems to drop further down the list of priorities.

Maybe its just the '13 mix' but i think we all know thats wish(ha,har)ful thinking.

It gets to a point where someones modified live boot of a gig can actually sound better and fuller than an album session recording(and all the money allegedly involved there) which to me is slightly ridiculous.

Although, at the end of the day I think little will change while a-bob n co are not made aware of this annoyance, assuming they don't already know. b-while their stuck to the not so mighty universal, releasing another seperate album already mentioned could speed such a process up time to go indepententish again methinks

[lostflower4]

Its funny how in this day and age of super sophisticated technology year after year quality seems to drop further down the list of priorities.

Too true.

It gets to a point where someones modified live boot of a gig can actually sound better and fuller than an album session recording(and all the money allegedly involved there) which to me is slightly ridiculous.

Also true. And maybe not even "better" or "fuller", but certainly more enjoyable to listen to, which really says something about modern "professional" production methods.

[Oso Blanco]

The Loudness War is not a matter of production. It's a matter of mastering. Please try to keep those two things apart.

The production of the 2004 self titled album is plain shit, and nothing could possibly save it from being shit.

The production on the new songs is much better, but how they are being mastered is an entirely different matter!

[mahood]

The Loudness War is not a matter of production. It's a matter of mastering. Please try to keep those two things apart.

except when music is produced just to be loudnessed when mastered.
there are just part of a similar process ; i don't think the production has been butchered at the only time of mastering. any sound in the new singles is already pushed to its limit, with no idea of how it could sound, which is  not the case in any of the live versions.

the production of the 2004 album was way better than what we heard so far, i think.

and i don't mean to be cynical, or critical, or anything, just for the sake of it : i'm critical just because the cure care about these things, and now, i cannot even listen to the first singles, just because of their sound. and there is no sound engineer who will master their songs so badly, if what he hears is a sparse production, for example - it just seems impossible.

[lostflower4]

I think it's hard to tell what's going on here. I think the new singles would sound plenty listenable with a simply a bit better EQ job (more bass, less treble) and no volume slamming.

I personally prefer the sound of the 2004 album. If you want a good example of how much better that album could have sounded, take a listen to the instrumental tracks from the "making of" bonus DVD. These don't suffer from extreme volume compression like their album counterparts.

Refereshing to hear to hear this stuff, actually. I always kind of preferred The Promise without vocals anyway. 

But damn, it really shows how much the sound was ruined when you listen to the album version afterwards. 

[Oso Blanco]

I always kind of preferred The Promise without vocals anyway. 

I would have preferred the whole album without vocals!