The fragrance of creativity and veteran bands

[Maya]

I was nearly discouraged to post.. Let me try again..

I'm notoriously fresh as a fan.. in discovery, not really in age.. but even age is getting slightly disturbing in the way Robert puts it as he was lamenting his 20s away.. I grew up with Close To Me and Lullaby and not with Plainsong and Faith.. I kind of regret that but I never knew about the other side of The Cure.. It took me by surprise a few years ago.. It's just the way it happened in my particular case.. It enchants and intrigues me that there is a person, like Robert, that actually pays attention to things and looks at things and behind things and wants to investigate and muse and turn something into something else and nothing into something and pain and transience into beauty and poetry.. He seems to do so with such a distinct fragrance that it makes one want to (re)search-out the flower.. In the world of mainstream and mediocrity in music, this stands out.. I want to find out in what ways he and what he does rubs off on everybody.. Because it has done so on me not just music wise but observing him and the way he wriggles in the discomfort of his own skin and transience...

Also, and maybe digressing, I found myself in a weird situation that some of my favorite bands are no longer in their prime while, at the same time, I am relatively fresh musing and relishing over the archive of the peak of their carrier.. as if they are still 20 or 30 in the YouTube lane.. Does it not make you feel disturbing or at least strange that huge bands such as Depeche Mode or The Cure, albeit still moving and creating, are in a natural decline? One finds a good fan forum and the place is marinating in a sort of ''we said it all'' silence.. or is this just my take on it..

I appreciate the feedback..
Maya

[dsanchez]

Does it not make you feel disturbing or at least strange that huge bands such as Depeche Mode or The Cure, albeit still moving and creating, are in a natural decline?

It's natural. Is highly unlikely that The Cure would release another album as Disintegration. Same goes to Depeche Mode or any other band. It's natural, it's part of life. In relationships, in professional life, there's always a height, and then, there's the rest. Therefore, no, it does not make me feel disturbed. The Cure gave me a lot, more than enough. I really don't care if they release a new album. I am happy enough if they play from time to time.

One finds a good fan forum and the place is marinating in a sort of ''we said it all'' silence.. or is this just my take on it..

curefans.com has been always a "quiet" forum even during its height (2007/2008). People here write what's necessary. We don't usually discuss trivial stuff (Robert's hair, etc.) and that might give you the impression that it's a silent community, however, there's always someone posting something, even if little And please remember, there's Facebook, Twitter...those social networks consume lots of people's time. In the past, curefans.com (as well as other The Cure forums that no longer exist) was the place to discuss/share info on The Cure. Nowadays Facebook (specially) took this place. It's easier for people to "like" a picture than engage in a thoughtful discussion.

welcome to curefans

[Maya]

By all means, yes, there is a peak and a rest.. it's how life is in general.. But that's not exactly what I am getting at.. They are getting very old for a band and they might just not do any album or concert for the rest of their life, which would be a natural closure.. and being acutely aware of this, as a relatively new fan, I find myself going through a vast history and being on the brink of their closure at the same time.. You have thrown yourself into the fire of their hay-day (I presume?) and have a certain content and fulfillment that is palpable, the rest of us rubbing off from the last few wagons of the train.. I don't want to sound whiny, it just occurred to me, being the generation that sees the big bands off but not really being able to ride that train.. The Beatles fans must have felt the same only they didn't have YouTube and Facebook to make their laments more stark  You know, having YouTube and an on-demand access to so much history creates the illusion as if it is all very, very alive and very NOW... but as you come around from the hypnosis, you realize ''my god, this guy is 55 right now!''.. So this feels weird when you're new 

As for Facebook, yes, it's true.. The Short Message Session generation.. Forums demand too much involvement for people so best stick to NewsFeed life and NewsFeed discussions.. sigh..

[Ulrich]

... They are getting very old for a band and they might just not do any album or concert for the rest of their life, which would be a natural closure.. and being acutely aware of this, as a relatively new fan, I find myself going through a vast history and being on the brink of their closure at the same time..

Well, as a relatively new fan, you have the advantage of discovering "old" music, but it's all new to your ears! I remember listening to "Faith" and "17 Seconds" around 1989-1991, they seemed like very old albums at the time!! But I still like them, to me THAT was/is the most important part.

As for bands being/getting old, it's what happens to everyone in life, no two ways about it. BUT: The Cure still play these three to four hours (!) shows at their age, which should make any fan happy! (Let's be real, they could get away with playing "only" for 1-2 hours and still getting paid...)

Also, I can imagine them creating a new album sometime in the (near?) future. Of course it won't be like "Disintegration", it would be crazy to be expecting that. But I would hope, it would show some honest emotion, about how Robert Smith feels now, what he wants to express musically and lyrically...

In short: the Cure are not dead, get happy while you can! 

[MeltingMan]

First of all:welcome to our forum.I hesitated with a reply after your very first post and
I'm not saying there's no substance in your thoughts or point of view if you will,but you wrote
you "lurked" around here for a while and that you "won't wade into the triteness of mud".
You also said that you're not conceited.I'm really sorry,but who do you think you are?
Sorry David.I can't manage without that. :x :roll:

[Maya]

I'm someone who is crazy but not crazy enough...

You have a good memory but you took all those individual words and sentences out of context so they definitely look horribly worse than they originally were.. This is why I deleted the post because I realized that it was an unfortunate concoction of words, especially for those who don't know me as a person.. If you want a complete backdrop to the content and chaos in my head of that day, I'll give it..

First of all:welcome to our forum.I hesitated with a reply after your very first post and
I'm not saying there's no substance in your thoughts or point of view if you will,but you wrote
you "lurked" around here for a while and that you "won't wade into the triteness of mud".
You also said that you're not conceited.I'm really sorry,but who do you think you are?
Sorry David.I can't manage without that. :x :roll:

[Ulrich]

You have a good memory but you took all those individual words and sentences out of context so they definitely look horribly worse than they originally were.. This is why I deleted the post ...

I hesitated with a reply after your very first post ...

Sorry folks, could you both please stick to the topic and the posts in here. It is impossible for me (and others) to follow any thoughts of you about a post which was deleted (and I never did see)!

[MeltingMan]

You know, having YouTube and an on-demand access to so much history creates the illusion as if it is all very, very alive and very NOW... but as you come around from the hypnosis, you realize ''my god, this guy is 55 right now!''.. So this feels weird when you're new 

Exactly! I'm not sure if I will find the right words,but that's it.The past is an illusion and even
the future.Only the present is real,although it sounds a bit too philosophical.Only one reason
why the impression of a live concert is much stronger for your consciousness than a simple
yt-video.The previously mentioned decline of creativity is quite existing,but no reason for panic.
Robert made clear that he will continue as an artist and The Cure is still very alive for the rest
of the decade.I hope so.

[Maya]

Yes, that's what I mean..

You can ''pick'' your favorite ''now'' and get lost in it or disoriented.. I watched a bit of their most recent performance (..on YT) and though it seemed weaker by exuberance and energy it had a sentiment about it.. Unfortunately (or not), I would still play Show or In Orange rather than those very recent ones.. I know that being on a concert itself right now would probably override those ''preferences''..

As for creativity, I find that most of the time, the best stuff happens in youth and a little bit down the road.. Later on it's just not it anymore.. As if the most thickest, sweetest cream is skimmed off and you can't scoop anything substantial anymore.. It's not a rule (and tastes would disagree) but it happens more often than not..

You know, having YouTube and an on-demand access to so much history creates the illusion as if it is all very, very alive and very NOW... but as you come around from the hypnosis, you realize ''my god, this guy is 55 right now!''.. So this feels weird when you're new 

Exactly! I'm not sure if I will find the right words,but that's it.The past is an illusion and even
the future.Only the present is real,although it sounds a bit too philosophical.Only one reason
why the impression of a live concert is much stronger for your consciousness than a simple
yt-video.The previously mentioned decline of creativity is quite existing,but no reason for panic.
Robert made clear that he will continue as an artist and The Cure is still very alive for the rest
of the decade.I hope so.

[Ulrich]

Don't forget that many people decide on which concerts to visit by listening to the studio versions of songs!

Artist income: While music sales declined over the last 10 yeas, live boomed. And although there are signs the live boom may be slowing, a successful artist can now typically expect to earn as little as 9% of their total income from recorded music, compared to 57% from live. Again, a factor of 6:1. There are many complexities to the revenue split, such as the respective deals an artist is on, fixed costs etc. but these splits tend to recur. Ironically just as everything starts with the song for digital music, everything starts with the recorded work (and the song) for the live artist. The majority of an artist's fan base will spend most of their time interacting with the recorded work of the artist rather than live. The recorded work has become the advert for live. In fact the average concert ticket of a successful frontline artist costs on average 8 times more than buying their entire back catalogue.

The article this is from is interesting in many aspects:
https://musicindustryblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/the-music-industrys-61-ratio/

As for creativity, I find that most of the time, the best stuff happens in youth and a little bit down the road.. Later on it's just not it anymore..

This may be true with e.g. the Beatles and other musicians, it just doesn't ring true with many other people, e.g. many writers (authors) delivered their best work (or: what many view as their "best work") in later years!

Youth is possibly good for "mindless, directionless energy" and possibly "anger".
Age is probably better for "experience" and "thoughtfulness".

Listening to e.g. "Seventeen Seconds", Robert Smith does even seem slightly older than the 20 years he had at this time! 

Robert made clear that he will continue as an artist and The Cure is still very alive for the rest
of the decade.I hope so.

Well said! I hope so too! 

[Maya]

Yes, it's the opposite with literature and art ..and classical music.. In fact, Robert said something along those lines.. I think he mentioned something about wanting to make the most of it until he reaches his 30s.. or fearing that he will only be able to deliver something good before he turns 30.. and then mused about great composers achieving their greatest at ripe ages.. something like that..

Advert for live... Are you buying an advert to a future live performance or somebodies work of art that has a ''studio life of its own'' or a ''live life of its own''..? Ok, it has ''BECOME an advert for live'' .. but I kind of disagree on that one... If you are into music to make money then talking in that way makes sense but otherwise I'm not sure anyone would frame it that way initially..

"Don't forget that many people decide on which concerts to visit by listening to the studio versions of songs!" ...Is it that black and white? At times the live versions differ from the recorded, how is that a reference point then? Some might even be disappointed.. I would hope that they decide on the totality of the impact.. If a band is new, surely you have only an album.. but in this age you can see videos of new bands playing live in clubs and have a larger scope of their atmospherics and skills.. there is more info available to decide on.. the ''advert for live'' is not all there is..  I was actually only trying to say that from all the concerts that I have seen, I prefer the ones they made in their hay-day rather then the most recent ones.. The most recent ones, on the other hand, have a nostalgia about them, a sentimentality that, I guess, comes with age and makes for yet another different experience..

[Ulrich]

... but I kind of disagree on that one... If you are into music to make money then talking in that way makes sense but otherwise I'm not sure anyone would frame it that way initially..

Well, it is from an article about the music business.
Feel free to write to them that you disagree. 

I think it is a matter of fact that people will go to youtube to look for a song by a band which plays their town and then think "I like it, might go see them". If they'll end up disappointed or not, is a different matter (and down to their expectations, as well as other things like sound etc.)!

I was actually only trying to say that from all the concerts that I have seen, I prefer the ones they made in their hay-day rather then the most recent ones.. The most recent ones, on the other hand, have a nostalgia about them, a sentimentality that, I guess, comes with age and makes for yet another different experience..

Indeed, if that was all you were trying to say, I didn't understand... 

Anyway, I still don't know exactly what your problem is.
Want to see bands in their hey-day? Go looking for such bands and go see them!
Lack of creativity in older bands? Go looking for younger bands or start a band and do something creative yourself! 

[Ulrich]

I think it doesn´t fit to talk of nostalgia or sentimentality in terms of The Cure.

Why not? 
Robert Smith has often sung about the "loss of youth", the "coming of age", the "last day of summer"...

[MeltingMan]

I think it doesn´t fit to talk of nostalgia or sentimentality in terms of The Cure.

Yes.When I was younger I wasn't aware about the earlier mentioned "advert" thing,
an interesting point by the way,but The Cure live allows more expression and space for the
album tracks or studio versions and I won't miss this experience to date,but in fact I needed years
to come to this point.Maybe really a question of age,so it seems.