A short term effect

Started by gioez, February 16, 2007, 09:45:30

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gioez

During last period I'm listening this song so many times and on different versions (Pornography album, the version on CD 2 of deluxe edition, concerts of different eras..). Well, I think that, especially on the live versions, so different from Pornography LP, this song is so great, so involving... the guitar sound is very strong and the bass is powerful. I like so much the song performed at l'Olympia in Paris, 1982: they was 3-pieces group and the sound is perfect! I think that the actual group (Rob, Porl, Simon and Jason) is perfect for performing this song and also all of the 80-82 era... I love this period!!!

So, what do you think about "A short term effect" live?
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Bloodflower

I really liked A Short Term Effect in the Trilogy DVD (though now I think it's kind of over-done) and think it's great on the Deluxe version of Pornography. That said, though, I probably consider it the weakest song on Pornography. Which, really, just tells you how fantastic an album Pornography is.  :rocker
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.

japanesebaby

'a short term effect', it's a killer song, in every way! such directness and honesty in these songs that it's almost dangerous to approach them without any protection... "watch out or you won't walk away unharmed"...
i wish they'd kept playing it, at least somewhere, sometimes, if not regularly. but no... :(
for my favorite performances during pornography era, i'd need to dig "the archives" a bit... there are so many good ones!

it's surely also one of my favorite bits of 'trilogy' - maybe simply because it's such a super-exclusive occasion, to hear them doing that song again... because to be honest, after that song i often start falling asleep a bit... hmm....  :lol:
then i wake up again around 'fascination street' - sometimes.  ;)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Bloodflower

Hahahaha.... falling asleep during Trilogy! Heresy!

I thought the Trilogy version of The Hanging Garden sounded really good -- the piano in it was very kind of Prayers for Rain -- and the drums sounded much better. And I liked Pornography a lot, because it was very different than other performances I'd heard of the song (i.e., from the deluxe edition of the album). But then, I'd never heard any Dream Tour boots at that point.  :oops:

I think Porl could do crazy stuff with A Short Term Effect.... I wonder if Robert/Simon just doesn't like it much? Is this possible?
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.

japanesebaby

Quote from: Bloodflower on February 17, 2007, 01:51:21
Hahahaha.... falling asleep during Trilogy! Heresy!

yeah, but it's really not a joke.not so long ago a friend and i pretty much agreed on it that if we'd suddenly be offered a million dollars and the only thing we were asked to do in order to get it was to watch the complete trilogy without a break AND without falling asleep we'd probably fail... :(
because honestly, a lot of it makes you simply sleepy... it's unique for sure and has really good bits... but frankly, there are much better and more solid shows and performances out there. sadly we just have too few pro-shot cure shows to really make good comparison... but i can personally think of many audience filmed shows that easily challenge 'trilogy' what comes to sheer performance. 
and people say it's heresy to say so because most everyone's supposed to "bow down before the holy 'trilogy'!" ;) - because it's THE trilogy! sure, it's THE trilogy, i don't deny that at all and i don't even think it's bad, no. and i've spent many great moments watching it. but i still don't think every bit of it  is really THAT awesome either.

Quote from: Bloodflower on February 17, 2007, 01:51:21
I think Porl could do crazy stuff with A Short Term Effect....
rrright!
Quote from: Bloodflower on February 17, 2007, 01:51:21
I wonder if Robert/Simon just doesn't like it much? Is this possible?
robert must be nuts anyway because they just keep playing stuff like 'inbetween days' and 'boys don't cry' over and over again, not to mention also sticking to some recent ones like 'us or them' etc. - when they could choose to play 'a short term effect', 'jumping someone els's train', 'lament'...  :roll:
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Bloodflower

It has to be noted that I am still a relative newcomer to The Cure. I have been a faithful listener since only 2004, not quite three years, and I did not discover sites such as Curefans until mere months ago. But I would argue that the performances on the Trilogy DVD are excellent.

I find Pornography to be the most interesting on the DVD, as it receives the most reworking and revising, while Bloodflowers, having been released just a few years before, was the least interesting. In its way, that does go with the order I find most interesting of the three albums, but I don't think it's really got much to do with my preference for the studio versions of Pornography and Disintegration over Bloodflowers.

If I could find shows with audio quality that come close to matching the Trilogy DVD, I might be able to agree with you. The Tienanmen Square version of Faith, for instance, is a fantastic version, incredibly powerful, but I rarely listen to it, because of the quality of the audio.

If you could point out to me just one show with audio quality comparable to the Trilogy concerts, then perhaps I might be willing to agree that the Trilogy concerts are inferior to other performances by the band.

And I'm a bit upset, for that matter, with Robert about this. All three nights at Wembley in '89, for instance, were taped, and a select few cuts became Entreat. The sound quality on Entreat is great, but we don't get to hear the rest of the shows. We just get this one bit, and it's not enough. The same goes for Show and Paris.

It's Robert's choice, and I respect that, but it doesn't mean I agree with him necessarily.

And I think there is definite reason to playing the pop songs like In Between Days and Boy's Don't Cry over songs like A Short Term Effect, Jumping Someone Else's Train, and Lament. Because of their very status as a pop band (which they aren't, really, but they do have many pop songs), they are pretty much obligated to play songs that appeal to the casual concert attendee. Does that mean that I wouldn't rather hear those songs in a concert as opposed to things like Lament? No, but not all fans are as obsessive as we are.
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.

lostflower4

Quote from: Bloodflower on February 17, 2007, 09:40:29
If I could find shows with audio quality that come close to matching the Trilogy DVD, I might be able to agree with you. The Tienanmen Square version of Faith, for instance, is a fantastic version, incredibly powerful, but I rarely listen to it, because of the quality of the audio.

If you could point out to me just one show with audio quality comparable to the Trilogy concerts, then perhaps I might be willing to agree that the Trilogy concerts are inferior to other performances by the band.

I have to disagree about the sound quality of Trilogy. This is one of the reasons I can't stand watching this video. The mix is just awful. Robert's Bass VI is almost completely drowned out in the mix. This just ruins the entire Disintegration set for me. Simon's bass sounds too thin, but I can live with that. Robert's voice is a little bit too up in the mix for my taste, at the expense of the other instruments. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure I've ever seen the whole video. I've seen bits and pieces, but I've never watched it straight through. The last two encore songs, I'll admit, are flawless. Good production there, don't know why it couldn't be applied to the rest. :cry:

Call it heresy, but I prefer listening to the audience recordings from both nights of this show. At least the mix is proper, and this makes a huge difference for me.

As for Rome '89, there are at least a couple verions of this that sound amazing. And yes, there are some crummy ones too. There's tons of great recordings out there, you just gotta find 'em. I've heard a lot of concerts, and I don't think the Trilogy concerts at the top. I don't think they're bad, but I've heard better performances. And there's always something slightly artificial about official release live stuff to me. I mean, it really doesn't reflect what you'd hear at a concert. Especially Show and Paris... They sound like they were recorded in a studio. Yes, that stuff was really were played live (well, most of it), but the way they were produced and recorded really doesn't reflect their live sound at the time.

Back to the quality of Trilogy, I've seen/heard a lot of TV/FM broadcasts from 2000-20002 that blow it away in terms of sound quality. I just don't get it...

So what is the greatest Cure show of all time? I really don't have a clue... I like too many of them, and they're liable to change depending on mood and other things. ;)

japanesebaby

i cannot but agree with the bad mix on trilogy. and it has been discussed many times before.
and also about the artificiality of commercial live recordings - sometimes, just listen to the audience version from the same night and you'll notice how flaws and wrong notes have been swept under the carpet... hmm. besides, there's a certain "feeling" in something "genuinely live", the feeling of "being there" (and i don't mean screaming annoying audience etc. - i mean somehting that sucks you into it, makes you fel like it's "happening again"). sometimes this is achieved on commercial boots too, sometimes not. but mostly not. but get your hands onto a really good audience recording from a skilled taper and there you go - sweet! :smth035

about good live stuff: the list would be too long to post here. but i think there are several really good sounding live recordings even currently availbale on the downloads here... i could personally think of several there that would beat 'trilogy'! not to mention all the others out there... :smth020

and about the "tiananmen square" roma '89: yes, gorgeous versions exist, it depends on the version and the generation of the copy you have. i have no idea what version/generation(/format) you refer to so it's impossible to compare.
but so to say simply that "it's of such bad quality" makes no sense as a general claim.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

japanesebaby

Quote from: Bloodflower on February 17, 2007, 09:40:29
And I think there is definite reason to playing the pop songs like In Between Days and Boy's Don't Cry over songs like A Short Term Effect, Jumping Someone Else's Train, and Lament. Because of their very status as a pop band (which they aren't, really, but they do have many pop songs), they are pretty much obligated to play songs that appeal to the casual concert attendee. Does that mean that I wouldn't rather hear those songs in a concert as opposed to things like Lament? No, but not all fans are as obsessive as we are.

surely they may feel obligated and i think they've said that themselves too. but i never meant they should make a permanent switch bwetween  inbetween days & lament or boys don't cry & a short term effect. but they simply have so many good pop songs that i genuinely feel that they could use a bit of variation and imagination and switch some of those sometimes. would that be a general disappointment for the audience, that they didn't play inbetween days this time but did at least one song something different for a change and when they probably still did play just like heaven, boys don't cry, maybe friday i'm in love too etc.? i think that would actually make their concerts more memorable, if they implemented little surprises like that - they do it very very rarely now. :!: whereas there are other bands who change the setlist a lot from almost every show to another while touring - surely i wouldn't work as well with every band out there, but i think the cure could very well pull it. or at least try to bother doing it a bit more.
because i think even "less obsessive" members of the audience would be able to sense and truly enjoy the tingling sense of delightment and  surprise that this would bring to the shows. we can't just think "let's give people what they want, let's do what the majority's after" - opposing this attitude still doesn't mean you were giving the majority a middle finger. because should people be allowed to choose the setlists? no, let's let the artists do that because they do know better than we do. but an artist who's thinking like "ok i'll choose these safe pop songs so that the majority of the public will be pleased" is actually easily underestimating his audience. the majority of general public are not qualified enough to put together a decent and interesting setlist - that doesn't mean that they were stupid but they are simply not experts, and nobody expects them to be experts either so there's nothing bad or wrong in that. but because of this, it should be the responsibility of the artist to use his/her knowledge and experience in order to provide the audience something to think about.
we shouldn't give in to what i'd call a "bubble gum mentality" of "let's not be too challenging but give people what they want, let's keep them "happily sedated"..."

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

japanesebaby

and honestly, why should they give a shit about "their status as a pop band"?
- because they never really used to give a shit about it earlier, yet they were still stranegly succesful...  ;)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

I'll have to say that I've recently grown a fondness for hearing In Between Days live. The few times they played it with Porl were really awesome. But before that, I think they could have retired it after the Wish Tour. :smth015

No doubt they could mix it up a bit more. I can think of so many songs that would sound awesome with the new lineup (Cut, Burn, A Short Term Effect, Torture, Want, Give Me It... just to name a few). But they do gravitate towards some very "safe" stuff most of the time. Sure, they do mix it up sometimes, and they're definitely not the most boring band as far as setlists go. Some bands play EXACTLY the same thing every show. I know Depeche Mode used a very mechanical  setlist during their last tour, where the songs were almost exactly the same each night â€" although they would switch a couple songs at certain positions in the set every few nights. But you could be assured that by a given number (like song 15) they would be right back to the standard setlist. :roll: Not too mention they play relatively short shows.

The Cure, on the other hand, still tend to play longer than average sets. So there still is some room for variation. And while we probably do get a bit more diversity than we give them credit for, I just think they could use that extra time to everyone's benefit a bit more effectively.

Let's just hope they don't make 2007 a clone of 2005-06. As much as I hope for something really new and surprising, I'm not sure I believe it will happen. :?

Dillinger

they NEED to play some of the pop songs. some of you have just said you struggle getting through trilogy because of its general atmosphere etc, but if they play shows with things like inbetween days and boys dont cry in it it breaks up everything nicely and we get to here both sides of the cure

japanesebaby

Quote from: farquad92 on February 17, 2007, 17:39:41
they NEED to play some of the pop songs. some of you have just said you struggle getting through trilogy because of its general atmosphere etc, but if they play shows with things like inbetween days and boys dont cry in it it breaks up everything nicely and we get to here both sides of the cure

:roll:
eh... you've got to be kidding???

edit: i mean, are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that any possible problem with 'trilogy' is that it sort of lacks some pop songs " that would break up everything nicely"? and that this is why i am falling asleep while watching it??
please, read the thread again...
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Filipe

Quote from: japanesebaby on February 16, 2007, 21:31:42
'a short term effect', it's a killer song, in every way! such directness and honesty in these songs that it's almost dangerous to approach them without any protection...


This says everything.

'A Short Term Effect' rules...it's a fantastic song, with a very special mood and atmosphere but, in other way, it has an unusual honesty and simplicity...

One ot the most underrated cure's songs ?

gioez

Quote from: Filipe on February 18, 2007, 04:16:36

This says everything.

'A Short Term Effect' rules...it's a fantastic song, with a very special mood and atmosphere but, in other way, it has an unusual honesty and simplicity...

One ot the most underrated cure's songs ?

Yes, may be...  ;)
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