The Jokela school shooting

Started by dsanchez, November 07, 2007, 20:27:54

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dsanchez

Crazy world  :?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting

The Jokela school shooting occurred on November 7, 2007, at the Jokela School Centre (Jokelan koulukeskus), a public secondary school in Tuusula, Finland.
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

japanesebaby

http://www.yle.fi/news/

i was on my way to work today as i heard about this. and i work as a teacher too... (not is a public school but anyway).
maybe you can call me naïve but i just have really hard time believing something like this could have happened around here.
i'm really shocked about this.

jokela is not very far from helsinki, just half an hour by local train.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Cure Freak

That is a terrible tradegy.
But, of the numerous school shootings, the US has had recently.
It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere.

Janko

CNN SAIS THAT FINLAND HAS THE SECOND BIGGEST RATE OF GUNS POSSESION AMONG PEOPLE, ONLY USA HAS BIGGER...

IT'S DISTURBING THAT THE KID MADE A VIDEO FOR YOUTUBE, BUT IT'S KINDA POSITIVE THAT HE SAID THAT "not books, not computer games, not anything" WERE TO BLAME, AND THAT IT WAS ALL PLANNED "IN HIS OWN HEAD", WHICH BRINGS US BACK TO THAT CRIS ROCK VIDEO WHEN HE ASKED "WHAT ABOUT CRAZY?"
I ONCE FELT SORRY FOR ALL THOSE KIDS THAT DO THESE THINGS
THEY WERE OFTEN DEPRESSED, BULLIED, ABUSED BY PARENTS...
BUT NOW I THINK THEY ARE JUST CRAZY AND I FEEL NO SIMPATHY FOR THEM ANY MORE

:smth011
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

dsanchez

Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:32:23
CNN SAIS THAT FINLAND HAS THE SECOND BIGGEST RATE OF GUNS POSSESION AMONG PEOPLE, ONLY USA HAS BIGGER...

I was shocked by the news, as our perception from Finland is like a very calm country, and I guess something like this must be really schoking in a place where you can't expect things like this coming.

And this what says Janko just confirm my theory that giving guns too easy to the people is  extremely dangerous. Look how many crazies are around there...
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

Janko

Quote from: dsanchez on November 07, 2007, 21:42:06
...giving guns too easy to the people...

TO THE SCHOOL KID!

ALLEGEDLY, THE KID HAD THE GUN LEGALLY AND WAS REGULARLY VISITING SHOOTING RANGES!
WHAT KIND OF PARENTS AND/OR TEACHERS THINK THIS IS NORMAL?!

:smth011
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

dsanchez

Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:49:56
ALLEGEDLY, THE KID HAD THE GUN LEGALLY AND WAS REGULARLY VISITING SHOOTING RANGES!
WHAT KIND OF PARENTS AND/OR TEACHERS THINK THIS IS NORMAL?!

Here in Peru you need to pass a psychologist test before getting permission to use guns.

Peru is already a crazy country and I can't imagine what would be if people could buy it so easy like by ebay.com, as this freak guy who killed the students in Virginia (US) some months ago did :?
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

Cure Freak

Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:49:56
Quote from: dsanchez on November 07, 2007, 21:42:06
...giving guns too easy to the people...

TO THE SCHOOL KID!

ALLEGEDLY, THE KID HAD THE GUN LEGALLY AND WAS REGULARLY VISITING SHOOTING RANGES!
WHAT KIND OF PARENTS AND/OR TEACHERS THINK THIS IS NORMAL?!

:smth011
Conseder the  mom who purchased a firearm, for her  teenage son, recently in the US.
:smth011
What parent, in their right mind, would think of helping their child perpetrate  a school shooting.

Janko

THEN AGAIN, I THINK THINGS (LAWS) WILL CHANGE IN FINLAND AFTER THIS
FINLAND DOESNT HAVE THAT KIND OF CONSTITUTION (LIKE IN USA WHERE IT'S LIKE A PART OF HUMAN RIGHTS TO HAVE A GUN  :?)

Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

j

Quote from: Cure Freak on November 07, 2007, 21:58:58
Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:49:56
Quote from: dsanchez on November 07, 2007, 21:42:06
...giving guns too easy to the people...

TO THE SCHOOL KID!

ALLEGEDLY, THE KID HAD THE GUN LEGALLY AND WAS REGULARLY VISITING SHOOTING RANGES!
WHAT KIND OF PARENTS AND/OR TEACHERS THINK THIS IS NORMAL?!

:smth011
Conseder the  mom who purchased a firearm, for her  teenage son, recently in the US.
:smth011
What parent, in their right mind, would think of helping their child perpetrate  a school shooting.

Yeah, that happened in a school district in my area.  Most of the guns confiscated were air guns that looked like real guns, but there were a couple rel ones mixed in.  I can't imagine how that kid's mom thought it was proper for him to have any of that crap!

melly

It's always hard to come to grips with a story like this school shooting. I just don't get it.. a parent allowing a child to have a gun! Maybe the parents must be held accountable too. But I know in some countries, it is thought as quite normal to own a gun. One can only imagine the sheer terror the students feel when someone crashes into their classrooms, shooting randomly. It happens all too often. My heart goes out to anyone touched by this latest tragedy. So very, very sad...young lives cut short. Why? 
" Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain "...

japanesebaby

Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:32:23
CNN SAIS THAT FINLAND HAS THE SECOND BIGGEST RATE OF GUNS POSSESION AMONG PEOPLE, ONLY USA HAS BIGGER...

yes it's certainly true. most are guns licenced for hunting/hunting societies though. as finland is a very sparesely populated country with lots of forest regions with practically no inhabintants. thus hunting is a very common tradition/pastime. so most guns registered here are hunting rifles. not that i am pro-hunting at all, but it's still a bit different than in the US where people just get handguns just because it's their "right to have a gun" or because they "want to protect themselves". it's completely impossible for a person just to go and buy a handgun here, like in america. that kind of thinking is pretty alien around us here, i think. there is practically no "handgun tradition" in finland.
anyway, all guns are guns, whatever the purpose was.

this is an ugly thing to say but this puts up my dislike towards americanism a lot today. something like this is so alien and so out of place, it's something that some disturbed people mimick from america, word to word.

Quote from: Cure Freak on November 07, 2007, 21:27:14
But, of the numerous school shootings, the US has had recently.
It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere.

and sorry to say such a thing, it's nothing against anyone and i don't want to start "us vs. them" here or anything. but to say "it's happened in america so it was just a matter of time it happened here" - why should it happene here? why should we mimick anything as sick as that? and most of all, why is all that sickness spreading here from america??
it doesn't give it any reasons, to say "It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere". because it shouldn't happen here - or more, it shouldn't happen anywhere. and it never happened here before, it never happened here until it happened repeatedly in america and then started spreading around because some sick people want to mimick everything american because they think it's somehow "cool". sorry if i find it somehow belittling to say that since it's happened in america, it is "not shocking" it can happen anywhere. maybe so, but it is STILL very shocking, wherever it happens! we cannot just say "oh well, just one more of these cases". it's always VERY shocking. we shouldn't belittle it like this but pay MORE attention to everything than before. because it's dangerous to say it's not shocking if we think like this, we stop caring for each other and we stop respecting each other like we should. sentiments like this only make it happen more and more because it means we somehow start accepting these things as part of something "normal". but just because something starts to happen more and more often it still doesn't mean it's "normal".
there's nothing to justify any single one of this kind of acts.

ok i'm sorry to say such things aloud but i am just angry towards this sick americanism today.
because the truth is that we mostly get bad things like this through it, it's just quite difficult to think anything positive that it brought us. :/
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

AlluivialL

It's not a good thing no, but it can happen anywhere. It most certainly should not, but it will, and there isn't a lot we can do about it. It is very disgusting and obscene to think that it's normal, but what are we to think? It does happen sometimes, and it's going to happen somewhere other than America.

and have you read his YouTube account? He was "trying to start a revolution" not off of someone else's ideas, but from his own. This is not a word for word mimicking.
But I think I get a bit confused, am I seducing or being seduced?

japanesebaby

Quote from: AlluivialL on November 08, 2007, 06:53:05
and have you read his YouTube account? He was "trying to start a revolution" not off of someone else's ideas, but from his own. This is not a word for word mimicking.

come on, the shooter was clearly a very disturbed person. and yes i've read his words but i've read a psychiarist's comments who analyzed all of this shooter's messages and the psychiarists very clearly showed how it's very typical copy/pasted stuff from some other similar cases, how it displays completely fragmented thinking (if there's any "thinking" at all there!) and how it doesn't display an original way of thinking - thus people should be suspicious to believe this person's words and motives. what if he just copy/pasted stuff from other sources? so how well can we trust any word the shooter himself said about his motives? he was too disturbed to say anything clearly enough, like a normal person would.
so i'm bound to be more interested of the psychiarist's word there.

and so, yes it hink it's nothing but very clear mimicking from certain well-known american examples. everyone who looks at it should see it instantly! i mean, we could say he didn't mimick IF he invented something original - but he didn't! he just did what all those school killers in america did, exactly the same thing. so how can anyone say "he was not mimicking" and how can anyone believe this madman's own words about his own motives? i don't understand. he was clearly copying something that had happened before - and that's nothing but mimicking. he didn't come up with anything original there.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

Regardless of whether he was mimicking or not, the bottom line is that he is the one responsible for it. One should have enough knowledge of right from wrong to not do such a thing. If he had such knowledge or self-control, this wouldn't have happened.

So he is the first to blame. Maybe he also had lousy parents who never taught him anything, I don't know.

I grew up around guns, played war with my friends, played violent video games, watched violent movies (even when I was quite young).

But somehow I turned out ok...