Wasn't sure which forum to post this in, but thought here would be appropriate as it is a sort of recent news story.
Here's a debate for everyone, and I know there are quite a few musicians here so thought it could be interesting...
Robert Smith has actually said something that I strongly agree with for the first time in about a decade!
Taken from PR-inside. com website:
Robert Smith "violently disagrees" with Radiohead. The Cure singer was astonished when the group allowed their fans to choose what they paid for their last album, 'In Rainbows', before downloading it. Smith - who, along with his bandmates, is set to receive the Godlike Genius prize at next week's NME Awards - insists the scheme devalues music. He said: "The Radiohead experiment of paying what you want - I disagreed violently with that. "You can't allow other people to put a price on what you do, otherwise you don't consider what you do to have any value at all and that's nonsense." Smith believes if you offer people the opportunity to pay nothing or very little for your music then that's what will happen. He added: "If I put a value on my music and no one's prepared to pay that, then more fool me, but the idea that the value is created by the consumer is an idiot plan, it can't work."
I have to say that I completely agree. Radiohead must have done this in an attempt to win over a larger fan base, but I think it's showing a complete lack of respect for music to make it sound so cheap and worthless and lowering the value of it as an art form. People could say "I'll pay 50p". They should be able to have enough confidence in what they are doing to put a price on it, and if people like it they will pay for it.
What do other people feel about this?
Cool, thanks for the post! :smth023
http://www.pr-inside.com/robert-smith-blasts-radiohead-r1074092.htm
http://www.pr-inside.com/smith-blasts-radiohead-s-sales-method-r1078257.htm
hmm, has any of u guys realized that releasing 'in rainbows' this way WAS actually an experiment? they mentioned it several time at different interviews that they were curious about how their fans appreciate their music. what value has it for them.
so i guess this was a very interesting and logical 'test'. it also worked as a promo, because everybody was talking about it, and they made a lot of money, too.
ps: they never said they will keep releasing their albums this way in the future, so Robert is a bit upset for nothing.
On thecure.com
http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=20628
MUSIC FOR FREE?
SO
IT SEEMS A FEW PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS (YOU HAVE TO LOVE THEM!) OUT THERE DISAGREE WITH MY "EVERY ARTIST SHOULD VALUE THEIR ART" MUSING
AND THINK ITS OK FOR ART - MUSIC IN PARTICULAR - TO BE MADE AVAILABLE FREE FOR ALL...
NO I AM NOT CONFUSING 'ARTISTIC VALUE' WITH 'COMMERCIAL VALUE'
MERELY QUESTIONING THE DUMB ACCEPTANCE OF THE 'FREE ART IS THE 'NEW' PARADIGM - THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS' MANTRA
IN THE WAY OF OUR BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD
THESE IDIOT CRITICS HAVE TRIED VERY HARD TO TURN MY GENERAL POINT - A POINT I MADE USING RADIOHEAD'S 'IN RAINBOWS: PAY WHAT YOU WANT' MARKETING RUSE AS IT IS THE MOST WIDELY KNOWN EXAMPLE - INTO A MOCK SHOCK HORROR "HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION THE FAMOUSLY INDEPENDENT AND ANTI-CAPITALIST RADIOHEAD, THEY SELL MORE 'PRODUCT' THAN THE CURE SO THEIR STRATEGY OBVIOUSLY 'WORKED' (HUH?!!)... AND ANYWAY, ROBERT SMITH IS WAY TOO OLD TO COMMENT ON CONTEMPORARY CULTURE" MOMENT...
MY POINT IS NEITHER PARTICULARLY NEW NOR ORIGINAL
NOR EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT RADIOHEADS 'IN RAINBOWS'
BUT IT IS I FEEL STILL COMPELLING
ANY FAMOUS ARTIST WITH A HUGE AND DEVOTED FAN BASE (OFTEN ARRIVED AT WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON' OR TWO?) CAN AFFORD TO DO WHAT HE, SHE OR IT WANTS...
INCLUDING GIVING THEIR ART AWAY AS SOME KIND OF 'LOSS LEADER' TO HELP 'BUILD THE BRAND'
ALL WELL AND GOOD (WELL... NOT REALLY! 'LOSS LEADER'? 'BUILD THE BRAND'? AAGH! BUT THIS IS THE LINGUA FRANCA... )
HOWEVER
IF THIS 'ART FOR FREE' IDEA BECOMES THE CULTURAL NORM
THEN HOW DO ARTISTS EARN THEIR LIVING?
HEY
HANG ON
WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT A WEALTHY AND POWERFUL 'PATRON'
LIKE... A BIG RECORD LABEL?
EXCELLENT!
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN UP AND AGREE TO ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS
AND IT WILL MARKET YOU DECISIVELY
AND IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT ITS EVEN WEALTHIER AND MORE POWERFUL PARENT COMPANY WILL AIR YOUR WORDS AND PICTURES AND VIDEOS AND MUSIC AND ADS ON ITS MANY AND VARIOUS WEB/TV/RADIO CHANNELS
AND CHARGE ADVERTISERS HUGE AMOUNTS TO ADVERTISE TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CONSUMING ALL YOUR FREE ART...
AND YOU THE ARTIST WILL OF COURSE GET A 'FAIR' REWARD FOR YOUR EFFORTS... ?
BAH
SOME 'NEW' PARADIGM!
SO
I STAND BY MY POINT:
AN ARTIST HAS TO VALUE THE ART THEY CREATE
OTHERWISE I DONT BELIEVE THEY CAN BELIEVE IT TO BE ART
I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO PAY AN ARTIST FOR HIS OR HER OR ITS ART
AS IT OBVIOUSLY HELPS ENABLE THAT ARTIST TO KEEP CREATING
AND QUITE HONESTLY
AS ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THIS POINT
IS UNLIKELY TO BE AN ARTIST
I DONT REALLY CARE TOO MUCH WHAT THEY THINK... !!!
I JUST WROTE ALL THIS BECAUSE I GOT PARTICULARLY FED UP TONIGHT WITH THE SQUEALING HIGH DRAMA OF THE 101 STORIES A DAY AND NONE OF THEM PARTICULARLY TRUE BRIGHT AND BRAVE NEW WIRED WORLD MEDIA THAT WHINES ON AND ON WITHOUT RESPITE OR REFUTATION...
CRETINS!
OR MAYBE ITS JUST MY POST BIG GIG HANGOVER TALKING?!!
ONWARDS...
RSX
PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?
HA!
I really wish he'd not HAVE CAPS ON AT ALL TIMES.
Quote from: Dillinger on February 28, 2009, 13:15:05
I really wish he'd not HAVE CAPS ON AT ALL TIMES.
No doubt.
Whatever his reasons may be, it simply makes him look like a loud, ranting fool. :oops:
Quote from: Trust... on February 28, 2009, 12:48:47
RSX
PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?
HA!
That's a good point :lol: how many? :-D
well, he's right..
but they could reduce their gig ticks ;)
Quote from: lostflower4 on February 28, 2009, 14:00:33
Quote from: Dillinger on February 28, 2009, 13:15:05
I really wish he'd not HAVE CAPS ON AT ALL TIMES.
No doubt.
Whatever his reasons may be, it simply makes him look like a loud, ranting fool. :oops:
I believe he started using all caps to differentiate his posts from others on the 2004-based official site. I want to say some fake Roberts and RSXs were posting, so Robert became CURE:ROBERT and just posted in all caps. I could be off there, but I think it was something like that.
Quote from: crowbi_wan on March 01, 2009, 08:10:04
Quote from: lostflower4 on February 28, 2009, 14:00:33
Quote from: Dillinger on February 28, 2009, 13:15:05
I really wish he'd not HAVE CAPS ON AT ALL TIMES.
No doubt.
Whatever his reasons may be, it simply makes him look like a loud, ranting fool. :oops:
I believe he started using all caps to differentiate his posts from others on the 2004-based official site. I want to say some fake Roberts and RSXs were posting, so Robert became CURE:ROBERT and just posted in all caps. I could be off there, but I think it was something like that.
it's not just the caps. it's also the stream-of-consciousness style that makes it hard to read/understand him sometimes. i actually would appreciate it if he actually edited/compressed his posts a bit. just took half of those BAH and SOs (and reduced all those times he hit 'enter', which is basically done just to make the spacing of the text look witty).
ok perhaps it's also because i'm not a native english-speaker (which i cannot help), but i confess that i often have to read them through a few times, to really get his point. i feel like he's liberately(?) writing in a babbly, stream-of-consciouness sort of manner. he could often have compressed what he's saying a bit - and therefore said it all a lot more efficiently, and clearly. i say "liberately" because i don't think he's like that at all times. for instance, when giving interviews, i don't think he's ever used such a babbly style at all. so it seems to me like it's an conscious choice(?).
i do NOT mean he should start writing some unwitty informative (and boring) messages instead. he could very well retain his own style, by all means.
but
it's definitely easy to see where the "poetic" style of
spacings the text that
so many people in the official site
like
to use
comes from...
so
at least
that
does not actually
manage to differentiate his posts
from other posts
over
too
many
copycats
all
around
i presume
....
I quite like the style of it, it's nice to see someone in his position not worrying about making a completely concise etc point, but the caps are so annoying.
From Craig's blog (chainofflowers):
QuoteUpdate: Robert has also posted his response in the news section, and reports that he has located the caps lock off button! Will anything ever be the same? : )
Wow, sometimes your wishes come true, eh? :-D
h
Quote from: Ulrich on March 02, 2009, 10:04:41
From Craig's blog (chainofflowers):
QuoteUpdate: Robert has also posted his response in the news section, and reports that he has located the caps lock off button! Will anything ever be the same? : )
Wow, sometimes your wishes come true, eh? :-D
haha
Quote from: Ulrich on March 02, 2009, 10:04:41
QuoteUpdate: Robert has also posted his response in the news section, and reports that he has located the caps lock off button! Will anything ever be the same? : )
Does he was following this topic? :roll:
Quote from: dsanchez on March 02, 2009, 15:31:40
Quote from: Ulrich on March 02, 2009, 10:04:41
QuoteUpdate: Robert has also posted his response in the news section, and reports that he has located the caps lock off button! Will anything ever be the same? : )
Does he was following this topic? :roll:
Yeah who knows ;)
News highlighted by SideLine
Robert Smith (The Cure) gives Radiohead the extra 1 finger salute for their 'free mantra'
http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=40429_0_2_0_C
(thanks Janko)
As regards Robert's message about Free Music, I love the photo he posted along with his post, but it would be simply perfect if he used as an accopanying photo that weird award he got (look at the finger.. the F word gesture)
Quote from: Birdmad Girl on February 25, 2009, 13:08:52
What do other people feel about this?
I think artists can do wathever they want with their creation. If they want to put it for free to download, to sell it, to allow fans to make a "donation", it's up to them.
A creation is not more or less valuable because of it's cost.
As someone pointed out, the Radio Head thing was an experiment, and people was allowed to pay what they could/feel. Altought Robert has the right to decide the price of his creation (we know is the company behind who decides that in the end), we have to consider the situation worlwide is different. Maybe someone from Luxembourg can afford 20 euro for a CD, but can someone from a poor country in Africa afford this?
Any Cure album in Peru cost the same in France, for instance. Yet, the salaries are quite different (200 to 300 euros in average in Peru, against 1000-2000 in France). If peruvian fans were allowed to pay what they could for a certain album, I am sure there would be more cd's sold. Or if the prices were lower.
Conclusion for me: RadioHead and any other artist can do wathever they want with their creation. Is THEIR creation, after all.
these topics (this one and this: http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,6011.0.html) seem to be about the same thing.
might be good to keep the conversation in one place and merge these?
Quote from: rubcure on March 01, 2009, 01:09:25
Quote from: Trust... on February 28, 2009, 12:48:47
RSX
PS
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE PROFESSIONAL APOLOGISTS OUT THERE WRITE THEIR SHIT FOR FREE?
HA!
That's a good point :lol: how many? :-D
yeah, it is a good point...although i bet musician's main income is from broadcasting, tour and merch, but income from record sales is also important part....but i reckon they would survive without them (but maybe i'm wrong).
New update on the official site:
http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21317&cmnt=1#s_comments_anchor (http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21317&cmnt=1#s_comments_anchor)
OPEN WORD TO MARK BEAUMONT
Posted by CURE:ROBERT on 4/30/2009 | Comments (31)
AN OPEN WORD TO MARK BEAUMONT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/apr/30/musicians-making-most-noise
"Over the past few months I've gritted my teeth as Robert Smith complained about the detrimental effects of downloading and the economic downturn on his income"
REALLY?
COULD YOU SHOW ME ONE SINGLE INSTANCE WHEN I "COMPLAINED ABOUT THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN ON MY INCOME"?
NO?
I THOUGHT NOT...
BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT ANYTHING OF THE f*cking SORT!
IT IS A NONSENSE
WHAT A SURPRISE!
IF YOU WOULD BOTHER READING WHAT I ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT FREE MUSIC
http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21082
THEN MAYBE YOU WOULDNT WRITE THIS KIND OF SHIT ABOUT ME...
BUT I WONT HOLD MY BREATH
OR GRIT MY TEETH WAITING
ONWARDS
AS EVER
ROBERT SMITH
(I was hoping for another update ... :cry: )
Quote from: Trust... on May 01, 2009, 13:36:26
(I was hoping for another update ... :cry: )
i know what you mean... he seems kind of stuck on that topic. but if people are saying shit about him then he needs to fight back and i love him voicing his opinion loud and clearly!
he did not change in that respect ;)
still i don't know why people are getting so worked up over the topic... it's not like all the bitching is going to change anything...