Simon Gallup no longer in The Cure? (False)

Started by dsanchez, August 14, 2021, 22:43:22

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SueC

Occam's Razor doesn't tell you what's real and what isn't, @dsanchez - it's just a philosophical view that the simplest explanations are usually better explanations. I think there is far too much assuming going on around here - e.g., unless you've got some information I'm not privy to, you don't actually know what Thompson's poem is about, you're just assuming it is about Simon Gallup leaving. Plus there's a heck of a lot of assuming what people in the band are doing, thinking, feeling etc when in reality we know the square root of bugger all about it, and I think speculations like this are not just pointless, I think they are really inappropriate (not to mention cringeworthy).



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dsanchez

Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 12:56:56you don't actually know what Thompson's poem is about, you're just assuming it is about Simon Gallup leaving

Not assumption here, again, Occam's. Pearl's reference was clearly about Simon, and he already wrote something similar during RHOF. Typical Pearl I would say. And now he deleted his post, same as he did with that post back then.
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dsanchez

Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 12:56:56Plus there's a heck of a lot of assuming what people in the band are doing, thinking, feeling etc when in reality we know the square root of bugger all about it, and I think speculations like this are not just pointless, I think they are really inappropriate (not to mention cringeworthy).

that's mostly on social networks not on curefans (thankfully!). I personally don't care, let alone don't know what Bob or Simon are thinking or feeling.
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Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 12:41:12and we agree 100%.

No we don't. Assumptions like "most curefans were expecting a farewell tour" are ridiculous. I for one expected news about the new album (RS said he might've "in about 6 weeks", these are long over now).
No one has talked about a "farewell tour" recently.

Btw, to me the real "hardcore" fans are those who take the trouble go to these small gigs by side-projects, buy solo albums, are really interested in the music and not just the "image".
It doesn't touch me at all...

SueC

@dsanchez, I'm afraid I have to conclude you don't have a particularly good understanding of what Occam's Razor actually is. What it is not is a bit of jargon you can throw in to make your assumptions about certain situations sound like they are facts.

Another point:

Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 11:02:19Most (can't speak for everyone) curefans are hardcore fans.

I don't think you can speak for most people, either, and you're certainly not speaking for me, for my husband, or for the people in my own circle who like this band's music. They like the music and don't go in for all this BS about which members were allegedly more meritorious, which was the "best" line-up, which were the "best" albums, etc; they don't cite Robert Smith as if he's some kind of Great Oracle of Superlative and Superhuman Understanding (or as if he might never change his mind, even though people do, and he's a "people"), they don't have a paparazzi-like interest in the band members and their personal business and don't think they can read their minds or are endowed with some kind of special transcendent understanding of The Cure; and they wouldn't dream of constructing polls asking other people to speculate on the situation that's apparently happening with their bass player at the moment. They'd be backing off and leaving it alone. They'd get it that personal situations are personal.

Imagine if you were the target of such social media polling, next time you have a situation with someone. Sort of like, "Hey, let's get out the popcorn and speculate on David's business." How would you like it?

Maybe you'd like to define what you think a "hardcore fan" is for me - if it's not someone engaged in the kinds of BS I've outlined in that paragraph above. But I wouldn't describe myself as a hardcore fan, for sure.
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dsanchez

Quote from: Ulrich on August 18, 2021, 13:15:29Assumptions like "most curefans were expecting a farewell tour" are ridiculous. I for one expected news about the new album (RS said he might've "in about 6 weeks", these are long over now).

This was an example. Anyone could have expected a last album and then end, a last concert and then end, a farewell tour and then end. But a one-line FB post and then end? I don't think anyone saw this coming, hence it caused such a 'storm'. If Bob said they are splitting after releasing the album, it would be totally normal and within the "expected", IMO.
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dsanchez

Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 15:00:08Maybe you'd like to define what you think a "hardcore fan" is for me - if it's not someone engaged in the kinds of BS I've outlined in that paragraph above. But I wouldn't describe myself as a hardcore fan, for sure.

A hardcore Cure fan only cares about The Cure, and nothing else. I have met many - people seeing the band +150 times and having separate bank accounts to save money to go to their concerts. But, I think that's for another topic. And this definition is from my 25-years as a fan (and my favorite band is Slowdive, not The Cure -- hence I am not too hardcore :))
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dsanchez

Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 15:00:08@dsanchez, I'm afraid I have to conclude you don't have a particularly good understanding of what Occam's Razor actually is. What it is not is a bit of jargon you can throw in to make your assumptions about certain situations sound like they are facts.

Simon post was Simon's and Pearl's post was about Simon. Those are not assumptions. Now, if we want to over think this then we are over complicating.

Anyway, Simon's post was deleted so end of the story, at least for now.
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SueC

Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 15:22:27
Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 15:00:08Maybe you'd like to define what you think a "hardcore fan" is for me - if it's not someone engaged in the kinds of BS I've outlined in that paragraph above. But I wouldn't describe myself as a hardcore fan, for sure.

A hardcore Cure fan only cares about The Cure, and nothing else. I have met many - people seeing the band +150 times and having separate bank accounts to save money to go to their concerts. But, I think that's for another topic. And this definition is from my 25-years as a fan (and my favorite band is Slowdive, not The Cure -- hence I am not too hardcore :))

Thank you for that, @dsanchez, and have a good rest of the day.  :)

We still have vastly different ideas on what's a fact and what's an assumption, and what's overthinking and what's confirmation bias, but that's how it's going to have to stay, I think.

Goodnight from the Antipodes.
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dsanchez

Quote from: SueC on August 18, 2021, 15:27:03
Quote
QuoteMaybe you'd like to define what you think a "hardcore fan" is for me - if it's not someone engaged in the kinds of BS I've outlined in that paragraph above. But I wouldn't describe myself as a hardcore fan, for sure.

A hardcore Cure fan only cares about The Cure, and nothing else. I have met many - people seeing the band +150 times and having separate bank accounts to save money to go to their concerts. But, I think that's for another topic. And this definition is from my 25-years as a fan (and my favorite band is Slowdive, not The Cure -- hence I am not too hardcore :))

Thank you for that, @dsanchez, and have a good rest of the day.  :)

this is for those who want to continue the discussion on the typical curefan: http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=7980.0
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SueC

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Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 15:18:04But a one-line FB post and then end?

No one said it was "the end" (not even Simon), that's why I questioned things right from the start.

(Even if he quit, they could always "reform" for a farewell show in 2028 or whenever.)

P.S.: I'm glad I don't even know what Occam's Razor is or means.  :lol:
It doesn't touch me at all...

sandgrounder

Quote from: Ulrich on August 18, 2021, 15:53:59
Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 15:18:04But a one-line FB post and then end?


P.S.: I'm glad I don't even know what Occam's Razor is or means.  :lol:

I think it's similar to  Bic but is only used by intellectuals

SueC

Bwahahaha, @sandgrounder:lol:  :beaming-face

Here's something else funny:

https://www.classicshaving.com/products/occams-razor

...because of course, it just had to be commercialised...


By the way, apologies if anyone thought I was jumping on them - that wasn't the intention. It's a combination of two things: Being trained to avoid making assumptions because that's really important when you're trying to figure things out objectively (and making assumptions is the main cause of bad science, of which there is more than you'd like to think - and it ties into the whole public gullibility/misinformation thing, which it's possible to avoid by erring miles on the side of caution). And secondly, just the way people jump on things on social media, which I normally avoid like the plague for that and other reasons - and this time, I'd had a look at how social media was reacting. It's like vultures flocking around a carcass. Or like people rubber-necking when there's a car crash, or like kids in the playground when there's a fight, flocking to it and going, "Fight, fight!"  And all these demands for explanations from people whose business it really wasn't, even though they apparently feel entitled to information. The pointless speculating. All that fawning by commenters on celebrity pages, I find that sickening too. Social media seems in some ways to be like a social lobotomy. It's done a few good things, but it also seems to bring out the worst in people.

I've also always hated gossip rags, because I don't think people should make up stories about other people for money or any other reason, and I don't think people should have their privacy invaded, or their personal business discussed and speculated on. I detest two sides of that - the people who produce this muck, and those in the public who buy it, therefore financing this shiitake.

And meanwhile, because of stuff like this, we're collectively not paying enough attention to the things that actually need our attention - like the unfolding ecological disaster, like the kind of things politicians get away with when the public gets complacent and looks the other way.

Sorry again if anyone here felt in the firing line. The world just gets to me sometimes. Hope you all have a decent day.
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Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on August 18, 2021, 15:30:45this is for those who want to continue the discussion on the typical curefan: http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=7980.0

Personally, I think this is the better topic (to show how different and colourful all the Cure fans are):
http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=3872.0

For anyone interested in speculation about what happened between Saturday & Tuesday, look here (but be warned, it's mainly for people with insomnia):
http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=9465.0
It doesn't touch me at all...