Dear Curefans,
As you may have noticed, the main focus of the forum has become downloading. Because people are sharing too many poorly encoded mp3's, and because at least 80% of members have fast Internet connections (according to our stats), the Curefans.com staff has decided the following after many weeks of discussion:
That from the 1st of November only shows in FLAC and other lossless formats may be uploaded to the Audio section of the forum.
Why? Because we believe that we should focus on quality over quantity. There are literally hundreds of mp3 bootlegs, and it's just an invitation for the people to download and download, and not to participate in the discussions of the forum, which was originally the main focus of this forum.
Because approximately 10% of us have slower connections, the staff and host sites are willing to help those who want to share or download the FLAC shows. We will be posting more details about this in the near future.
This will certainly require some patience and adjustment. We hope for your understanding, and we invite you to discuss this post here.
Thanks for your cooperation,
The Curefans staff
I for one have stopped downloading anything in mp3 anymore, FLAC or other lossless formats are much better, although I can totally appreciate why people with slower connections would prefer the much smaller files :smth020
i agree with you :rocker
Excellent news! A wise decision. :smth023
:smth020 Quality is where it's at.
so from now on i will be one of those who only downloads... i dont have any wav nor flac shows... :smth011
but i understand the quality aspect and the aspect that too many people only download... but as i said, i'll be one of them from now on! i have over 600 mp3 shows... now just for me! 8)
I just want to point that the forum is not restricted to the "Downloads" section (uploading or downloading shows) and I encourage to everyone to be more active also in the another sub-forums. We should improve the discussion in Curefans.com!
:smth023
David.
Quote from: lacrima mosa on October 25, 2006, 23:11:43
so from now on i will be one of those who only downloads... i dont have any wav nor flac shows... :smth011
but i understand the quality aspect and the aspect that too many people only download... but as i said, i'll be one of them from now on! i have over 600 mp3 shows... now just for me! 8)
mmm by my work it is impossible to download flacs. I do not have anything in format flac, i see to come , what concerts in mp3 are broken? since he always download shows in mp3 of this forum and never download broken files , also you decide.
greetings and thanks
pd : if the quality show its bad : the quality of mp3 , flac ,wav or somethig else its always bad .(this is my opinion)
keep flac in flac ( its not a ac/dc song?) (its a joke)
exploding boy
if you really want just quality then you should only share fm/sbd recordings... :smth019
Hello,
I don't think it's a clever decision. As Ceho wrote, just SDB or FM shows should have its place here. And talking quality, what about whose shows originally from tapes and digitalized with poor equipment? Flac files doesn't mean necessarily quality. If you mean quality, everyone should transfer their old stuff via a 24 bits / 96 Khz soundcard with nice preamps, do a bit of mastering with at least EQ, denoiser, declicker, multiband compression, limiter and dither and of course all the work has to be done on top audio monitors!
But I don't think everyone owns that kind of gear... Unless we all work in studios :lol:
RV
I'll just make a few comments here. Sure, there are lots of things that weren't transferred with the best gear, and some that won't sound good no matter what, etc. But why make them worse? Why make them impossible to remaster when they've been stripped down to a lossy format? Why spread around shows that have no trading value and just piss off the people who taped them in the first place?
And there are plenty of fantastic audience recordings out there. Some people seem to not believe it, but there are. ;)
Quote from: cure4sale on October 26, 2006, 10:56:55
I don't think it's a clever decision. As Ceho wrote, just SDB or FM shows should have its place here. And talking quality, what about whose shows originally from tapes and digitalized with poor equipment? Flac files doesn't mean necessarily quality.
well i suppose most everyone of us has some old and far too generated cassette tapes lying around, but how about just using one's judgement on what is reasonable to transfer and share and what isn't? at least i have a good bunch of shows i've transferred myself at the beginning of the time from some old tapes and since i now know that there are far better copies available with little effort (and not just better transfers but also copies with clean lineage) then i see no reason starting to upload those. so that's why i don't quite see where the problem here would be.
but in some cases some pretty rough sounding version can be the only one currently available from this or that show. and what i don't get either is the way of thinking "this doesn't sound too good, so let's make it even worse by encoding it to some lossy format" - which kills all possibilities for any possible future efforts to ever try and make it sound a little better, like said here already etc.
and not all soundboards/FMs are simply gorgeous, i think that's pretty much a myth.
and however gorgeous they sometimes might be, even they get ruined when they get frozen to some low bitrates.
another point of view: if we chose to accept only SBD/FMs then a vast majority of shows would be completely out of our reach since no soundboard recordings exists on all shows... i wonder if that would be fine for everyone?
i'd say flexibility is the word: "allowing" SBDs/FMs only isn't very flexible, neither is converting to lossy formats since it is always an irreversible operation.
and in all, everyone's in any case free to choose what qualifies as 'good enough to listen to and enjoy' and everyone's free to choose what to download (be it here or somewhere else). because i cannot see this as a question of the sources of the shows but as a question of the ideal sharing format. those who want to pick up only SBDs/FMs can still do it, those who want to get a wider view can do it too. you're free to choose. but i just i cannot see how choosing to share in the best possible format would hurt either party, i can only see it as a common benefit: whatever you might prefer, why not try to get it in the best possible format?
Quote from: lostflower4 on October 26, 2006, 11:23:20
I'll just make a few comments here. Sure, there are lots of things that weren't transferred with the best gear, and some that won't sound good no matter what, etc. But why make them worse? Why make them impossible to remaster when they've been stripped down to a lossy format? Why spread around shows that have no trading value and just piss off the people who taped them in the first place?
And there are plenty of fantastic audience recordings out there. Some people seem to not believe it, but there are. ;)
couldn't agree more, when I said I dont download mp3 files anymore it is exactly for this reason, I have downloaded quite a few shows that aren't the best sounding quality wise, but if they are lossless at least it is better quality, than if it is a poor quality show that has been made even worse by being converted to mp3,
this is just my personal opinion and I dont object to people who want to download poor quality shows in mp3, I just prefer the best possible version of any show, and that means lossless files :smth020
I just want everyone to know that this wasn't a decision that Caley or anyone else made on their own. There was a legitimate discussion between Curefans staff & moderators about this issue - an ongoing discussion that lasted about 2 weeks, mind you. Sharing only quality shows is going to benefit everyone. Also, I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about with the impending DVD release and the new album on it's way mid-2007.
Remember, Curefans.com is supposed to be a "meeting place for fans worldwide", not "a rest stop for passerbys looking for freebies". That's all for now. Thanks.
Chris
One important reason to move to FLAC for me it's the fact that discussions were everyday less and less and many people just came here to download shows. What we want with this new "rule" is to encourage the people to DISCUSS more in the forum instead of just download and download shows, which is NOT the main purpose of Curefans.com
I hope for your understanding :smth023
David.
Quote from: dsanchez on October 26, 2006, 15:24:46
One important reason to move to FLAC for me it's the fact that discussions were everyday less and less and many people just came here to download shows. What we want with this new "rule" is to encourage the people to DISCUSS more in the forum instead of just download and download shows, which is NOT the main purpose of Curefans.com
So, do you really think once every shows are in Flac people are gonna discuss more and more?
I agree with the fact that lossless quality files are what we're all looking for. But once again, a bad recording will remain a bad recording even if it's in Flac, Wav, Aif, or mp3. True that it will be worse in mp3. But what will you loose? Some top end (high frequencies) I suppose? Not a crime on a "bassy" recording. And what about spending 4 more time dowloading a show and taking 4 more space disk?
Instead of saying NO MORE MP3's, we better think about a rule for encoding. eg: Top quality shows, FM shows, master or 1st generation copies, SNB shows and recent gigs : All in Flac. Poor copies of very old stuff remains in mp3.
WHat do you think?
I think its very good ideal but with flac the archives are big and then I believe that the mp3 in 192 its better.
But I agree with you ;)
oww no
//yes flacs are big but i find a mp3 too good not all shows are bad at all
some shows sounds horrible as a wav and then flac to much compression
and i think as he the moderator says that no everybody posteds on the forum
and they came only for fasters downloads as mp3 but not everybody have a flac file
for sharing here ,why doens't make a flac section apart??
thanks
it was only a tought.
Quote from: cure4sale on October 26, 2006, 15:54:47
So, do you really think once every shows are in Flac people are gonna discuss more and more?
flac only means less shows will be uploaded and that means more time for people to actually to actually listen to what their download and stop buy to discuss it.
Quote from: cure4sale on October 26, 2006, 15:54:47
I agree with the fact that lossless quality files are what we're all looking for. But once again, a bad recording will remain a bad recording even if it's in Flac, Wav, Aif, or mp3. True that it will be worse in mp3. But what will you loose? Some top end (high frequencies) I suppose? Not a crime on a "bassy" recording. And what about spending 4 more time dowloading a show and taking 4 more space disk?
what will you lose? part of the sound gets thrown away, that's exactly what you lose. if you have a bassy recording you can do something about it - IF it's in wav. but once it's in mp3s there's nothing you can do to fix it. now that's a huge difference. :!:
and besides, lossy shows are completely worthless trading wise.
Quote from: cure4sale on October 26, 2006, 15:54:47
Instead of saying NO MORE MP3's, we better think about a rule for encoding. eg: Top quality shows, FM shows, master or 1st generation copies, SNB shows and recent gigs : All in Flac. Poor copies of very old stuff remains in mp3.
WHat do you think?
i'd personallyhave to disagree with any generalizations like
- all audience shows are worse than all SBDs/FMs;
there are many audience recordings which one could even mistake for SBDs, and there are many examples of really badly mixed and messed up FMs
- all old shows are worse than newer stuff; even this isn't true in general
(and we should just condemn all older shows to be even destroyed further...?)
"top quality shows only?". i'm sure everyone would love it, to have flawless SBDs on every show out there, but what about the shows where no top quality recording exist? these are all worthless shows then? hmm...
and besides, who decides what's top quality and what's not? why not let everyone a chance to decide: if someone thinks this or that recording is too bad for his/her ideals then he/she doesn't have to download it, it's that easy. but there might be someone else out there looking for exactly that show, however bad it was... but instead, you'd want to close the door in front of this person?
if the objective is to encourage the dicuss on teh forum... i guess the rule could be open de download sectio to member with a determinate number of post... then the people enabled to download will be people that use to discuss in the forum... otherwise MP3 or FLAC formatswill be matter of preferences... i do preferr FLAC format... but no all the boot are available on Flac format so i download some MP3´s... so i dont thinks its matters of the quality of the downloads, is matters of the objective of the forum... ENCOURAGE TO ARGUE IN THE TOPICS...
just my point of view
:rocker
Very good idea ! f*ck mp3 ! :smth023
Just a question: What was the purpose of this discussion? Do you (= all members of this board) really think that posting in flac means more comments (quantative/ qualitative???) or reports on any gig? I doubt!! We share/ download the music of our favourite (??!!) band !!! Whithout being nostalgic: There was a time everybody was quite satisfied with downloading in mp3. I really can't understand why people 'hate' this file format, now. A Sh*t sounding show will always sound like that, no matter flac or mp3 - Keep it in mind! Please, administrators re-think your new downloading rule - it badly reminds me on other Cure trading board in the web...
Just like the administrators' objective: Please, comments!!
Greetings, Paul
Paul - I certainly understand what you're saying - and please also realize that I in no way represent any of the other admins or moderators - but the observation I made was that more and more people were just posting shows like this was a p2p network. The fact of the matter is that an apparent majority of us feel like posting mp3's constantly are not only violating (and disrespecting) the show's original taper/source, but are also reducing the quality of shows so that in the future we'll have copies upon copies of seemingly unlistenable material... I know that is not what I want to have happen. This forum is not a hub for run-and-shoot downloads. I also understand that there aren't always going to be topics to discuss in depth and that there are a lot of fans out there who haven't had a chance to listen to a particular show who really want to, etc etc. However, we do (and should) have a responsibility to maintain these shows as best as possible. I hope you understand where I, at least, am coming from. Thanks.
good ol' mp3s - will not miss you. ;)
Quote from: Paul on October 27, 2006, 21:56:01
Whithout being nostalgic: There was a time everybody was quite satisfied with downloading in mp3.
but i think you'r being very nostalgic. ;)
do anyone remember that in the beginning of mp3 era, when mp3 format appeared there was a time when people thought mp3s are just exactly as good as original source files and many convert all their music and even threw away they originals and only kept the magical new mp3s. and then later they discover that they did a very stupid thing because they didn't know any better.... they lost all they good shows because they had throw it away for mp3s... :roll:
today people know better that mp3 (or other lossy file) are like cheap imitation only, not the real thing and not of value.
what value? like trade value, to exchange new shows from others. format like mp3 are for your personal copies, like ok if you convert it to your ipod or something at home, but it's not the format you go and trade and share and distribute the shows.
hey you don't go to the shop to buy some groceries or something and then try to pay with some fake money you made yourself because nobody in the shop won't of course let you have anything! so you need real money, to get some things you would like to have. so: imitation is not the same as original.
Quote from: Paul on October 27, 2006, 21:56:01I really can't understand why people 'hate' this file format, now. A Sh*t sounding show will always sound like that, no matter flac or mp3
and of course, true: shit don't turn to gold whatever the format but what is the point of making in even more shit?
and if you yourself would trade, you would know the problems that this conversions to all kinds of lossy always causes.
there is a real danger that some tapers stop sharing their material when people keep converting to mp3s against their wish, some tapers already have stop sharing because of this and listen this is the loss for everybody! and before some people want to say the usual 'f*ck the petty tapers wish, i don't want to have respect for them, they don't own their shows'- yes maybe not but they are the ones who go out there to tape it so even if you like it or not maybe we still must remember that if they stop sharing with us, we non-taping fans don't have anything to listen to... bad, no? i think it's bad, for everyone.
(and i think this conversation here is really pretty far from the other cure board you mention... if i get you correct.
because here people can have conversation and speak they mind.)
thanks.
@Splitmilk: I'll understand your argumentation and do totally agree! ...without starting discussion again, I don't think that posting in other file-formats will solve the origin problem, which was having/ getting more talks about shows. Then you should say: We only post (maybe) 5 shows per week and everybody has a chance to comment... or something in that way!
@slits: Thanks for reply!
Paul
We came to this decision for various reasons. My primary intention here was not to increase the discussion on the forum. For me, it's simply sad to see all these poor versions of shows circulating. What am I talking about? Often, mp3 stuff is inferior to other versions available. Surely there are some exceptions where the definitive version of a show is shared in high-quality mp3, but I'm also really sick to death of all the 128 bitrate (and lower!) stuff. :smth011 Some of that stuff really does sound like garbage. There's an art to mp3 encoding itself, but I think the times have progressed to the point where such a format can be left behind.
Those are just a few of the reasons. I could go on and on, but I think I've already stated some of the others in previous posts, as have other members.
As for this "rule" making us seem like another forum, I'll have to disagree. To be like that, we'd have to reduce the quality of things here, with bogus lineage, and a few fakes shows in mix. Oh, and I would have already banned anyone that openly disagreed with our decision. :smth029 :lol:
Quote from: Darth Blood on October 26, 2006, 20:58:08
if the objective is to encourage the dicuss on teh forum... i guess the rule could be open de download sectio to member with a determinate number of post... then the people enabled to download will be people that use to discuss in the forum... otherwise MP3 or FLAC formatswill be matter of preferences... i do preferr FLAC format... but no all the boot are available on Flac format so i download some MP3´s... so i dont thinks its matters of the quality of the downloads, is matters of the objective of the forum... ENCOURAGE TO ARGUE IN THE TOPICS...
just my point of view
:rocker
GOOD POINT!
I AGREE WITH YOU
have you guys notice how many shows are in the audio section?. Up to 7000 SHOWS!...That means probably 6950 MP3 shows and maybe just 50 FLAC shows. I don't think no-one will miss the mp3 thing cause there are THOUSANDS of shows already in this format. Let's move on!
:rocker
David.
Quote from: lostflower4 on October 28, 2006, 14:32:50
We came to this decision for various reasons. My primary intention here was not to increase the discussion on the forum. For me, it's simply sad to see all these poor versions of shows circulating. What am I talking about? Often, mp3 stuff is inferior to other versions available. Surely there are some exceptions where the definitive version of a show is shared in high-quality mp3, but I'm also really sick to death of all the 128 bitrate (and lower!) stuff. :smth011 Some of that stuff really does sound like garbage. There's an art to mp3 encoding itself, but I think the times have progressed to the point where such a format can be left behind.
Those are just a few of the reasons. I could go on and on, but I think I've already stated some of the others in previous posts, as have other members.
As for this "rule" making us seem like another forum, I'll have to disagree. To be like that, we'd have to reduce the quality of things here, with bogus lineage, and a few fakes shows in mix. Oh, and I would have already banned anyone that openly disagreed with our decision. :smth029 :lol:
wow!! two weeks of not checking one topic and its increased to the top!!
now i see your point: if, and i say IF, a show exists in better quality, i can understand people to want it in the better quality... not for me, i listen to my shows on my computer, with a average soundcard and no highend speakers, so mp3 is far enough for me... but i see the guys who really burn every show and want to listen to them on their highend stereo (maybe with headphones) the quality has to be good, better than mp3 192kb.
another thing that wasnt mentioned, i think, is, that all the p2p guys from soulseek an other forums now dont have the possibility to upload, they (like me) have only mp3 shows... and i dont think that the idea behind that new rule is, to have more guys who dl than the people who upload...
i'll still be a proud member of this forum, will download shows i dont have, but i wont be able to share shows, requested by people, hope i wont be banned, when i only download...
hope this discussion wont kill this forum, as we saw on other forums over the last 2 years...
i absolutely agree with you, dear friend.
if i want to listen to quality recordings i put on my turntable a telarc or sheffield labs vinyl...i don' understand how one could find quality on a bootleg.
anyway your hope is mine...
marco
I think that isn't right eliminate the downloading of mp3s shows: a lot of people like to listen concerts in this format. Why oblige people in his choiches?
If you can see thousand shows in mp3 format in this forum, is because the request is high: I posted 3-4 times the same show because some curefan requested it again.
It's banal that FLAC is better than mp3, all the people know it.
Generally I dislike the lack of choice, especially in this case: we are not speaking about the difference between good and evil, it's only a preference in listening music.
So I propose 2 different section, one for concerts in FLAC format and other dedicated to shows in mp3 format.
Well, if you're self-confident in your decision, I will accept it. I hope too that I wont be banned when I will only download in future...
NO-ONE is going to be banned for just downloading shows or not collaborating. No-one said that, we never did that, and we are not going to do that. :smth023
David.
Quote from: gioez on October 31, 2006, 14:47:07
Well, if you're self-confident in your decision, I will accept it. I hope too that I wont be banned when I will only download in future...
so i ask my question one more time at the good place:
My question is : what is the interest to put shows on flac when this shows are from a bad source like most of the shows we can find. I agree with the new rule if the show are from soundboard or fm broadcasts. But if they are coming from audience source, it won't change anything about the sounding quality: it will be bad quality in lossless format, so bad quality at the end... the problem is not the format but the mix. If the mix is bad, you can have all lossless format you want, it will stay a bad mix with a bad sound, no???
i do agree with post flacs an in keep flacs in flac (for sharing), and about the mp3... there still too many shows not availables on flac... i guess the big truble here is how to keep the flac format in flac and how to avoid all the garbage 128 kbps mp3 circulating on the net... for all the mp3 lover... please try to understand that is matters to kkep the web sharin g in the best level of quality... maybe yes there are to many show that are in audience source and sounds awfull... but sice i start to listen flacs i understand ythe point... and really EVERY BODY can play flacs just get the right software... and about the mp3 shows there are too many sites even form user of this foum where will be available the mp3 shows...
:rocker
I just can't understand the pleasure to have a audience show sounding like shit in FLAC ? Is it to get less space on our hard disk??? cause the fact that the show is in flac doesn't make it sounds better, i repeat, if the original recording and the original mix is crap... it is logical, and you don't have to be a sound ingeneer to understand that!!!
OK for the Flac solution if the original recording comes from soundboard or FM and TV broadcast. If not, it is useless.
Quote from: yrbadrenau on October 31, 2006, 17:32:56
OK for the Flac solution if the original recording comes from soundboard or FM and TV broadcast. If not, it is useless.
yes why should be enconded a -mp3>wav>flac
i think is better get flacs if this comes from fm or soundboard version
no from audience shows, well some audience shows sounds so horrible why have this on flac? no point
so anyways the chooise is made
[/quote]
yes why should be enconded a -mp3>wav>flac
[/quote]
this is the pointo to avoid -mp3>wav>flac and then -flac>wav>mp3 too many shows have this lineage adding to this if the mp3 encoding are less than 254 kbps the results is an awfull quality try this with an audio track direct from any cd you have... so you will hear the loose of quality in the audio... think then on the audience recordings... REALLY!!! DO THE EXERCISE AND COMPARE THE ORIGINAL TRACK WITH A 128 KBPS MP3 FILE
otherwise the flac files shared would be from a direct audio source... not from a mp3 re encoding to flac... THIS IS REALLY POINTLESS...
i don't agree : transfer your MP3 audience show in flac won't clean the sound in any way. It won't make disappear the differents noises due to the poor quality of the recording materiel, it won't make disappear the "sshhhhhhshhhhshhhhhshhhh" you can hear all along the show. It won't change the MIX of the recording (too much bass and no treble or too much treble and no bass) etc... You will have a crappy sound at the end. but maybe, you're right, it will be louder than before in MP3. That's all.
Quote from: temptation-cure on October 31, 2006, 17:38:45
yes why should be enconded a -mp3>wav>flac
Shows with this kind of lineage will NOT be allowed. Agreed, it's pointless. Don't you know that the sharing of mp3 in general contributes to the population of these kind of shows?
I really hope that some people don't convert their mp3 collections to FLAC and put it up here. We'll be keeping an eye out for this. 8)
Quote from: yrbadrenau on October 31, 2006, 18:02:28
i don't agree : transfer your MP3 audience show in flac won't clean the sound in any way. It won't make disappear the differents noises due to the poor quality of the recording materiel, it won't make disappear the "sshhhhhhshhhhshhhhhshhhh" you can hear all along the show. It won't change the MIX of the recording (too much bass and no treble or too much treble and no bass) etc... You will have a crappy sound at the end. but maybe, you're right, it will be louder than before in MP3. That's all.
hmm.... why do you sometimes hear that shhhhshshshshshs all along the show? because it's an audience recording and so it's of course crap? no: because it's recording with a bad lineage with too many analog copies in there, too many times someone copied an audio cassette copy to someone else, adding one new layer of ssssshshshshshssssss every time. of course we must forgive some of this since there simply was no other way of making copies than making analog cassette copies back in the 80s/early 90s. but we shouldn't be let to think that the original master tape of this or that "sshsshsshshshshss show" sounds like that too - it's our poor generated copy that sounds like that = better to try and look for a better copy then, closer to the master source. thus, we should try and look for low generation copies, with as few analog generations as possible before we condemn every old audience recording to be complete crap. because the very same ssshshshshshshs-thing happens just as well to the most gorgeous soundboard or fm recording if there's just too many analog generation in the lineage - it's not because whether it was originally audience or soundboard or whatever.
so the point of all this is:
let's try to share quality shows (low gen, good sound)
let's try to share in quality format (no compressed formats that only deteriorate the sound)
AND about mp3>flac conversions: please, NO! that's the WORST thing to go for. :!:
there's absolutely NO point in that and it only causes a lot of damage, to put this sort of complete crap versions into circulation. lossy compression is always irreversible so once it's been on mp3s/other lossy format = game over. :!:
so please convert to flac ONLY if you are sure your audio files are uncompressed.
if you are uncertain of this, there are ways to test it and find out.
lets get clear in this point
FLAC should be from a direct audio source NEVER FROM A MP3
MP3 is a lossy format... to conserve a good audio quality should be at least at 360 KBPS
FLAC should be shared in FLAC in you HD you can convert flac to MP3 OGG or anythin you wants...
i understan this rule is for the forum sharing.. and is for conservate the quality of the tapings... in most of cases required for the tapers Themselves...
:rocker
Quote from: Darth Blood on October 31, 2006, 18:55:55
lets get clear in this point
FLAC should be from a direct audio source NEVER FROM A MP3
MP3 is a lossy format... to conserve a good audio quality should be at least at 360 KBPS
FLAC should be shared in FLAC in you HD you can convert flac to MP3 OGG or anythin you wants...
i understan this rule is for the forum sharing.. and is for conservate the quality of the tapings... in most of cases required for the tapers Themselves...
:rocker
I totally agree with you ! :smth023
I really applaud this decision. There are many other filesharing networks where mp3 shows can be easily downloaded. The commitment to quality here is great and perhaps it will encourage tapers to allow their shows to be shared more freely.
good decision! just hope no-one dares to try to upload shows in flac now that were formerly mp3... that is the worst thing of all if it happens...
Quote from: yrbadrenau on October 31, 2006, 17:32:56
I just can't understand the pleasure to have a audience show sounding like shit in FLAC ? Is it to get less space on our hard disk??? cause the fact that the show is in flac doesn't make it sounds better, i repeat, if the original recording and the original mix is crap... it is logical, and you don't have to be a sound ingeneer to understand that!!!
OK for the Flac solution if the original recording comes from soundboard or FM and TV broadcast. If not, it is useless.
realize, that "audience show sounding like shit in FLAC" sounds always much better than compresed to mp3. ALWAYS ....
siempre que comprimes a mp3,pierdes calidad.tanto si es AUD o SBD..FM pierdes al comprimir.estoy de acuerdo en compartir solo FLAC.SHN ...degradar a lossy es perder calidad se mire por donde se mire.verdaderamente hay muchos conciertos que suenan mal desde el original pero si encima los comprimes a lossy peor todavia.respetemos a los señores que los han gravado y compartido en no lossy,si la gente comparte en flac y luego lo pasa a mp3 y ese lo convierte otra vez en Flac,esta fastidiandolo todo porque una vez comprimido a lossy no hay nada que hacer.no lossy please.
sounds always much better than compresed to mp3 :rocker
Quote from: Yves28 on November 02, 2006, 20:32:22
What I like in curefans.com is its openness. Since the beginning of this forum last year it was possible to find and speak about anything in the format you wanted.
The openness of the forum is not going away. You can still talk about mp3 all you want, but some of us won't want any part in it. ;)
Quote from: Oso Blanco on November 02, 2006, 19:18:37
Furthermore, there are shows that are simply not available in FLAC format. Would you rather not have the show at all, just because it's MP3?
Ok... We all know that mp3 shows just don't create themeselves. Yes, there a few (very few) exceptions where the only circulating version of something is in mp3. But this number is so insignificant that I don't think it should affect things here.
Quote from: monghi on November 02, 2006, 07:11:45
it´s a strange... you don´t think about fans who has low speed connection to internet... flac files are so big
Again, it's the quality over quantity issue here. I know my internet connection is far inferior to most everyone these days. On average, I can download about half of a FLAC show per day, and that's assuming I don't download anything else. I'm sure some of us here can download many, many times more than that. Now how come I'm not campaigning for mp3?
Quote from: cult_hero on November 02, 2006, 17:25:42
as far as i know a lossless copy does not exist. okay, the radio station and maybe robert should have it...
unfortunately it's not allowed anymore to post mp3 or ogg here. :roll:
I think there should be reasonable exceptions made in these cases. Webcasts, and web-sourced items should be allowed, but ONLY if they are in their original format. The 2004 demos in ASF, for example. Unless you've got an in with the band, it's as good as it gets. But if you convert it to mp3, that's just further butchering an already somewhat low quality file. Common sense should be applied in these cases.
To sum up, we just want to share things in the best AVAILABLE quality. If you want to convert all your nice FLAC shows to mp3 for your personal enjoyment and listen to them on your iPod, I could care less. But why spread worthless garbage versions that have no trade value and just make the tapers angry and more restrictive?
I don't think many of us realize how many more GREAT versions of shows exist that aren't circulated much (or at all), simply because of the overpopulation of mp3 on the net.
We've already explained our reasons very clearly, so it may help to review these topics:
http://www.curefans.com/index.php/topic,3003.0.html
http://www.curefans.com/index.php/topic,3037.0.html
The Curefans staff
i'm completely ok with you,caley; as always!!!
is perfectly clear your message.is not possible only download in a forum.is beautiful to share helps and opininons specially!!!!!!!! :smth023
Firstable, i agree with the new guidelines.
Second, some remarks:
Quality is not a question of the end format that a show is transferred to, quality
is a question of generation and gear. If someone has strong objections against
mp3 and lossy formats their point of view must be respected IF they share quality
stuff and ask for quality.
Quality is a question of technical knowledge and knowledge about trading and
encoding to digital formats.
If a show must be remastered or waits for remastering like most cure audience shows are then: no mp3 or no lossy files at all. And even then:
- only known generation and/or known lineage shows to exclude everything insane
like mp3->wav or mp3->flac
- only reliable persons or respected persons, respect and reliability can be calculated by the number of quality uploads by them, not by their views on subjective things like
their use or non-use, or their liking or non-liking of lossy formats like mp3. If
someone knows almost everything about lossy formats then it´s non-likely that he/she would share something insane like mp3->flac
just because we've had a lot of new members lately, we'd like everyone new to read both this topic (and also this http://www.curefans.com/index.php/topic,3046.0.html)
before using the download section.
thank you.
FLAC is VERY VERY good especially for me with a fast connection,The sound improves a great deal.
But as you all know A crappy recording will always be a crappy one! :)
How about if an MP3 version is better than any FLAC version you've found?
For example, I have FLAC copies of some Peel session tracks downloaded via this forum that are nowhere near the quality of my original MP3s of the same track, presumably because the source is better. Some of these MP3s were obtained on the web, and others recorded by me from tape, or direct from vinyl long before the FLAC fashion.
Sooo.. assuming I'm not gonna try and break the rules, do I convert the MP3 to FLAC and post here, or just not share these better-quality recordings?
Of course, that said, there may be batter quality FLACs that I just don't know about.
A minefield I tells ye.
well i have to agree that i've come across such cases sometimes, some old mp3 version being better than some commonly circulated lossless copy. but one shouldn't think it really means that the mp3 in general wins over the flac: it's just a comparison between those two copies there. if the flac copy isn't great it still does't mean evry other flac copy out there isn't great either.
so the way i see it is that if one comes across an mp3 source that sounds better than some flac source you happen to have today, then it's a motivation to go out and try to find that source where the mp3s where sourced.
there are often many different lossless sources/many different transfers(!) for same shows out there. also, there are still a lot of people who haven't even digitalized their analog tapes. and so on. so the odds that a better flac source can be found are often still quite good (although sometimes depending on the concert in question). one just needs to do some searching.
the best way would be to compare available sources before uploading. i remember the old pptt tracker had this: when planning to share some show, several people uploaded samples from their copies and the best one was picked.
so perhaps in such a case as you're describing, it would be best to wait and look around, to find who has a better copy. or post the inferior source but ask people to come up with upgrades. at least this has worked quite well sometimes in places like dime. and upgrades are always welcomed by many collectors.
Quote from: MAtT on November 16, 2008, 15:07:19
Sooo.. assuming I'm not gonna try and break the rules, do I convert the MP3 to FLAC and post here, or just not share these better-quality recordings?
never never never: we have not banned mp3s just because they are mp3s but because they are lossy sources. and mp3 > flac would also be just as lossy (because lossy don't magically turn into lossless, just by switching into a favorable format. we're no alchemists - once lossy, always lossy).
converting mp3s to flac makes no sense whatsoever and such sources just piss off many traders out there, nothing more. :x
mp3s are allowed only if the master was recorded in mp3s (like some - although luckily quite few - people do these days). but of course that doesn't apply to stuff that's being sourced on analog tapes.
i'd be curious of which show(s) in particular you are referring to?
Quote from: MAtT on November 16, 2008, 15:07:19
do I convert the MP3 to FLAC and post here?
That's not a good idea. We have discussed this subject before:
http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,5035.0.html (http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,5035.0.html)
Surely what's important ultimately is the sound quality?
You'd never get this scenario with an official CD because all sources are the same, but if all available lossless copies of a concert recording are actually lower sound quality than an MP3 copy, because the MP3 came from a better original source, then surely the MP3 copy is preferable?
I have this scenario with several of the 81/82 Peel sessions, where I downloaded FLAC files via here and DaD, only to find that they are much lower quality sound than the MP3s I already have - because the sources were obviously not as good for the FLACs.
If I can't convert to and post the FLACs then can I post the MP3s?
I could have just converted them to FLAC and not told you they were originally MP3, and you'd never have known, but I'm honest... ;)
Yes, I have seen examples where an mp3 source of something sounds better than a different FLAC version. But for the cases you're speaking of (old analog stuff), there surely must be a lossless copy of the same thing out there somewhere!
So just as was suggested above, take that as some motivation to track down the original source. If you don't want to or can't, fine. You can listen to your mp3s all you want, but you don't have a compelling enough case for us to allow it here. Peel Sessions are very common and I know of multiple versions floating around out there. Just because your x version sounds better than some y version, it doesn't necessarily mean your version is the best. :!:
Quote from: MAtT on November 17, 2008, 19:21:11I could have just converted them to FLAC and not told you they were originally MP3, and you'd never have known, but I'm honest... ;)
Actually, we check all sources that are uploaded here. There are often tell-tale signs of mp3 lineage.
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2008, 19:52:02
Quote from: MAtT on November 17, 2008, 19:21:11I could have just converted them to FLAC and not told you they were originally MP3, and you'd never have known, but I'm honest... ;)
Actually, we check all sources that are uploaded here. There are often tell-tale signs of mp3 lineage.
and besides, what would be the point of "cheating" with some fake flacs anyway? i mean what would it accomplish?
a lot of traders/collectors out there would just end up being disappointed in the end, when they'd download (or even trade for it) and it would turn out to be lossy. and this would turn out sooner or later as people do check these things on many live music sharing/collecting sites (like on dime). lossy sources get reported and for a good reason.