For those that have gone to this leg, it seems there are many more keyobard layers. From listening to the gigs available, I also think I hear mini mistakes in the keyboard notes, which means there not tapes, but someone is playing them under the stage. U2 has been doing this since 1992 (a fifth member, who doesnt get to play on stage)..It also seems when the band gets a little off, the keyboards don't which leads me to believe someone is playing them.
Anyone have any clues, or are they for sure tapes (not actual tapes, but MIDI or something like that)...I'm sure there will be many opinions, but anyone know for sure (close to band, been to soundcheck to see whats up)
Quote from: ernest newman on February 21, 2008, 17:53:35
For those that have gone to this leg, it seems there are many more keyobard layers. From listening to the gigs available, I also think I hear mini mistakes in the keyboard notes, which means there not tapes, but someone is playing them under the stage. U2 has been doing this since 1992 (a fifth member, who doesnt get to play on stage)..It also seems when the band gets a little off, the keyboards don't which leads me to believe someone is playing them.
they play keyboards
under the stage?.. who are they hiding under there, that could not/didn't want to be visible part of the tour??
very interesting ernest.. :shock:
u2 have had two under the stage guys, des broadberry, and now terry lawless is the guys name..in 2005 they actually had a song that needed edge to play 2 parts at once, so they finally after years brought the guy up to play the keyboard and introduced him..they did if for like 3 shows, they became insecure in it and never did it again, they reorganized the song so they didnt need him to play. They do not play complicated parts, but they need to be played live so that if the band gets off the entire song does not get out of whack
also the Placebo had two "hiding" members .
Idiotic shit, if you ask me ... and I know you don't.
Either you have to re-arrange the songs to get them done without additional keys, guitars or whatever, or you bring additional players on stage with you. Hidden-under-the-stage-band-members or pre-recorded tapes are crap and an insult to the audience!
I've seen bands have additional players just offstage where you aren't supposed to see them before. No big deal.
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 22, 2008, 19:40:30
Idiotic shit, if you ask me ... and I know you don't.
Why the hostility? It happens sometimes. At least its not an Ashlee Simpson incident...I mean, Robert still actually sings for himself...but some of the ambient noises and drones and stuff may be programmed into the keyboards to be played under the music, to add additional layers of sound.
Quote from: Carnage Visor on February 22, 2008, 23:25:13
to add additional layers of sound.
When I want additional layers of sound, I go home and listen to the studio albums on cd. When I'm going to see a live show, I want it to be a LIVE show! I don't know what happened to The Cure ... Robert used to be very resourceful back in the old days. But now he's relying on fake drums and keyboards, and even guitars way too much!
For me, it ruined the shows in 2000, 2002 and 2004 completely. 2005 was not as bad, but still bad. I didn't go to this years show here in Berlin, and I haven't downloaded anything yet ... do they still use so many tapes and stuff? It's a shame, really ... they used to be such a great live band. But that was before Jason joined the band.
I'd rather have it that way too, but I also prefer my shows in tiny 200 person venues, not giant arenas. With The Cure, I'll take what I can get.
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 00:57:10
Quote from: Carnage Visor on February 22, 2008, 23:25:13
to add additional layers of sound.
When I want additional layers of sound, I go home and listen to the studio albums on cd. When I'm going to see a live show, I want it to be a LIVE show! I don't know what happened to The Cure ... Robert used to be very resourceful back in the old days. But now he's relying on fake drums and keyboards, and even guitars way too much!
For me, it ruined the shows in 2000, 2002 and 2004 completely. 2005 was not as bad, but still bad. I didn't go to this years show here in Berlin, and I haven't downloaded anything yet ... do they still use so many tapes and stuff? It's a shame, really ... they used to be such a great live band. But that was before Jason joined the band.
As far as I can tell, it IS live. Robert is actually singing and everyone's playing their instruments. That's what live is, the fact that they add some additional sound doesn't change that
Quote from: rodney on February 23, 2008, 01:34:56
I'd rather have it that way too, but I also prefer my shows in tiny 200 person venues, not giant arenas. With The Cure, I'll take what I can get.
I see what you mean. But the days I took anything I could get from The Cure are gone. I don't like being the kind of fan that happily nibbles on every bone his idol is throwing him. I went a long way with this band ... and unless they are coming up with something REALLY good, I'm done with them.
I know that most of you think of me as a bitter old man, but really ... they are NOTHING like the band they used to be. Can you blame me?
Quote from: carycameron on February 23, 2008, 02:57:45
As far as I can tell, it IS live. Robert is actually singing and everyone's playing their instruments. That's what live is, the fact that they add some additional sound doesn't change that
Yes, everyone is playing their instruments, but is every instrument you hear being played on stage? I saw both Trilogy shows in Berlin, and there were guitar parts when nobody on stage even touched their guitars! And don't even get me started on the drums!
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 03:10:53
Quote from: rodney on February 23, 2008, 01:34:56
I'd rather have it that way too, but I also prefer my shows in tiny 200 person venues, not giant arenas. With The Cure, I'll take what I can get.
I see what you mean. But the days I took anything I could get from The Cure are gone. I don't like being the kind of fan that happily nibbles on every bone his idol is throwing him. I went a long way with this band ... and unless they are coming up with something REALLY good, I'm done with them.
I know that most of you think of me as a bitter old man, but really ... they are NOTHING like the band they used to be. Can you blame me?
I don't think many would disagree the band is well past their prime.
I'm certainly interested in the upcoming new cd but not terribly excited about it at least not yet
I do think they are still sounding very good live on this tour despite not having keyboards from the recordings I've heard so far and many who have gone to the shows seem to think so too. They are definitely still worth watching in my opinion even if it isn't quite as it used to be...
hey! mr/ms oso blanco... in case you haven't noticed, the Cure have been going for nearly 30 years...show me ANY band who can sound as good as the Cure do live after all that time... of COURSE it's going to be different... 20 year olds playing in a band are going to be quite the opposite to nearly 50 year olds... my my, you ARE a bitter old man, aren't you? Maybe it's time for a nap...you may feel better after a little snooze, so that next time you choose to come in here, you won't be so nasty and jaded.... whilst it is naive to think everyone is going to "love" everything the Cure do, it sounds as though you need to move on...find another band.... ta ta....
@melly.. don't worry, Osos not a fan.. :shock:
Quote from: scatcat on February 23, 2008, 07:28:53
@melly.. don't worry, Osos not a fan.. :shock:
yes, sounds like was a fan long time ago not anymore.
but then why come on here then ....doesn't make sense to me
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 11:01:35
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
thank you soo much for smiting us !! :evil:
hey guys, easy :-D
here everyone is free to express his own opinion.
surely, there is no point to criticize The Cure all that, yes, we could argue about the thing of no keyboards, about Jason , about the postponed tour in USA... etc.
but really, not with "closed mind" .
i mean, as someone said before , they've been playing for 30 Years... there is no band in the world which still play with this passion and for all that time (3 hours !!!!! find me another band playing for all that time after 30 years) and this is how they are now. stop.
there is no use to say "the old cure were better" , it's just a question of opinion.
and about the tapes or the "hiding" member : there is NO band in the world that doesn't use this kind of stuff.
the trouble is when the major part of instruments is not played but "recorded" ...that's the problem,
when you have only some "sounds" and things like those... well, where is the problem?
Oso does have a point.
The latter performances had become quite clinical by the Trilogy-era. Not to mention Roger's statements about the Acoustic sessions being pre-recorded and mimed too (I'm not concerned either way on that particular performance).
The joy of seeing a live band, for me, is to see how a song is interpreted in a live context, rather than replicated slavishly to the recorded versions.
That said, the band have recently had Porl transposing many keyboard parts to guitar. Now this certainly hasn't been to everyone's liking, and at times of questionable success, but it certainly seems to have energized the band in a live situation, and damn if I didn't half enjoy some of Porl's funky jazzy noodlings on some of the familiar pop pieces. I found it quite refreshing and quite daring of the band. It wasn't that long ago that peeps were complaining about Just Like Heaven being played all the time and sounding very tired and staid.
I did notice there are still some sequenced pieces floating around, but they did seem less obtrusive and prevelant than they had in recent years. May well they continue to slide from view as Rob's confidence with this lineup increases.
Quote from: Secrets on February 23, 2008, 14:58:26
The joy of seeing a live band, for me, is to see how a song is interpreted in a live context, rather than replicated slavishly to the recorded versions.
that's it!
I'd take the Trilogy sets over anything 2005-2008.
Quote from: [labyrinth] on February 23, 2008, 15:49:27
Quote from: Secrets on February 23, 2008, 14:58:26
The joy of seeing a live band, for me, is to see how a song is interpreted in a live context, rather than replicated slavishly to the recorded versions.
that's it!
Live is always the test... it beats most recordings, IMHO.
Doesn't matter if they have someone hidden under the stage, performing sequences!! :smth023
Quote from: scatcat on February 23, 2008, 17:38:10
Live is always the test... it beats most recordings, IMHO.
Doesn't matter if they have someone hidden under the stage, performing sequences!! :smth023
that's it, again! :-D
i agree !
I am certainly not the kind of fan who thinks that Robert can do no wrong. He has and will continue to make what I view to be questionable decisions. However, this one, for all the world seems like something I should have real problems with, but I don't because mainly they're putting on a show. A recorded backtrack, or a hidden player is all incidental to creating a mood and a performance.
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 11:01:35
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
A world outside...my...
what? Outside
my window? Come now, that's crazy talk! :eek:
Everyone knows the universe ends right outside my window...
And it's not a little church, it's a cathedral! GOSH! ;)
:-D
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 11:01:35
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
Nobody saying you can't criticize R.S. but when you are posting your opinion on a public forum you can expect there's going to be responses from different points of view whether its positive or negative.
Quote from: Secrets on February 23, 2008, 14:58:26
Oso does have a point.
The latter performances had become quite clinical by the Trilogy-era. Not to mention Roger's statements about the Acoustic sessions being pre-recorded and mimed too (I'm not concerned either way on that particular performance).
The joy of seeing a live band, for me, is to see how a song is interpreted in a live context, rather than replicated slavishly to the recorded versions.
Sure, there are many people would prefer not to hear added sounds
But to say that it "ruins" the concerts "completely" is a little extreme, I wouldn't think fans agree with that point.
My opinion, it doesn't bother me but I do wish Roger was still in the band
Quote from: Pooka on February 23, 2008, 17:03:15
I'd take the Trilogy sets over anything 2005-2008.
I'm didn't mean the sets specificially, but the way the music was played around that era by that lineup.
Quote from: carycameron on February 23, 2008, 20:23:12
But to say that it "ruins" the concerts "completely" is a little extreme, I wouldn't think fans agree with that point.
I'm not sure whether that's directed at me or Oso. I certainly said nothing of the sort in my post. I said
for me I'd prefer not to have any of the additional pre-recorded instrumentation (e.g. the guitar intro to Want). That's all I was agreeing with. And I'd certainly consider myself a fan.
But it's like arguing whether vanilla is better than chocolate as it's all personal aesthetics.
I don't think the band are done and dusted. I found last years concerts very good, and I'm quite confident that the new album will have some fantastic songs.
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 11:01:35
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
you see, herein lies the problem... incase you hadn't noticed oso , people in this forum treat each other with respect and kindness. We don't always agree, hell, that would be boring, but the confrontational nature of your posts is what people will take umbrage to. Whilst your opinion of this tour, which by your own admission you haven't even BEEN to will not make any difference to the Cure, your self effacing and rude behaviour will leave a lasting impression on the people here. To come into a fan based forum and spit your abuse not only at the band, but the people in the forum, leaves a lot to be desired.
By all means, air your opinions, but please curtail the venomous way you do so.
Quote from: melly on February 24, 2008, 06:59:05
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 23, 2008, 11:01:35
I'm sorry, I hadn't noticed that this forum had become so religious that only people who won't oppose the mighty Robert Smith are allowed to write their opinion.
While living in your little church and praising the Bob, have you ever noticed that there is a world outside your window?
you see, herein lies the problem... incase you hadn't noticed oso , people in this forum treat each other with respect and kindness. We don't always agree, hell, that would be boring, but the confrontational nature of your posts is what people will take umbrage to. Whilst your opinion of this tour, which by your own admission you haven't even BEEN to will not make any difference to the Cure, your self effacing and rude behaviour will leave a lasting impression on the people here. To come into a fan based forum and spit your abuse not only at the band, but the people in the forum, leaves a lot to be desired.
By all means, air your opinions, but please curtail the venomous way you do so.
That's all I did, stating my opinion. It was you and some others who had to take this on a personal level:
Quote from: melly on February 23, 2008, 08:56:25
Ahhhh, I get it...just comes in here to get a "bite"... *laughing* what a sad person... must have a dreary life really, when you think about it... Now I am aware of this, I shall do what everyone else does, and ignore him... thanks for the heads up scatcat!! :smth023
ok, I take on board your comment, and I have deleted my post which offended you..and I WILL take my own advice ( and that of others) and ignore your comments, but...
Quote from: melly on February 24, 2008, 06:59:05
By all means, air your opinions, but please curtail the venomous way you do so.
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 22, 2008, 19:40:30
Either you have to re-arrange the songs to get them done without additional keys, guitars or whatever, or you bring additional players on stage with you. Hidden-under-the-stage-band-members or pre-recorded tapes are crap and an insult to the audience!
can see the point in that, though I won't go as far as insult to the audience, that would be for me, if all the instruments are on tape and pretended to be played.
The Cure have in recent years always used a backing with Roger in the band as well - for example 100 Years since 1997, There Is No If, Prayers For Rain since 2000,...
I don't mind backingtapes at all, being used to it as I listen to quite a variation of other bands that use them as well, as it is impossible to play everything live on stage cause you would need 7 keyboardplayers, 2 percussionists + 3 drummers...
what I definetely think it worse is 'hidden' players, like someone playing synths behind the stage or whatever, that to me is a laugh.
and in these days there is more ways than backingtapes, I am not sure what The Cure use during this tour, but there is in general a huge difference for this method which many still name 'backingtape' although being technially totally different, I try to explain it in a hopefully easy way for all.
1) backing-tape: these days usually digitally recorded either on harddisc or adat (a kind of tapemachine) that replaces the old tapemachines (that could for example been seen on stage in the early years of Depeche Mode, still featured famously in the movie 101) - all sounds that can't be reproduced on stage are on that tape and can clearly be heard for the audience - only difference in different shows will be: the loudness in the whole soundmix
2) sequencer: sounds are preprogrammed for the show in samplers or harddiscsystems, the sequencer will be toyed live with + when it runs, it will trigger off the sounds from the samplers and harddiscs -> a live thing, meaning if a sampler breaks down or a sound it wrongly adressed (say the sequencer says channel 12 and the technician wrongly programmed a stringsysnth for that part instead of a trumpet sound, you will hear stringsynthsound).
3) hidden musician: don't have to comment on that (and to me this is simply b*llsh*t) - if someone plays stuff live why shouldn't he be on stage? always found that extremely annoying with Placebo...
the advantage of the sequencer is: you can be more spontaneous, change stuff in the tour or in the show but having more risk of technical breakdowns and it is way more expensive to use... with adat or similar you can make sure it normally works (especially if using a backup system running along), but you can be sure that a song backing always sounds the same on the whole tour -> the way it was prerecorded onto tape.
as said, I don't mind either of these 2 options, as it is obvious for people what is played on stage (if one cares, of course). but I think fans in general have a different attitude towards these things, e.g. a The Cure fan will definetely react in another way than a James (Bl)(C)unt fan....
I have seen shows with backingtapes that were great (The Mission - using it on songs like Tower Of Strength or Butterfly On A Wheel), I have seen shows with sequencers that were great as well (Depeche Mode, New Order), so it doesn't really matter to me.
the thing that matters for me is the way it is done + I don't think too much backing works too well, always thought that Robert has his problems delivering the song, especially noticed that during No If in the Dream Tour, so many versions simply sounded totally off-key. for me it is a slight bit laughable and I think that is a main point in Oso's words as well, Robert said how much better it would be with just guitars and no need for keyboards and then there is those sequences/backingstuff going on, it is definetely strange... one thing is sure, Cure 2008 is definetely far more relied on backings than Cure 1998...
When I saw Placebo they had the two extra players on stage with them - they were sort of off to the side and wearing black, not invisible by any means, but clearly second fiddle. Felt pretty odd... I mean, they're working just as hard to create music for our enjoyment, but somehow they're lesser. Seems disrespectful towards the other musicians rather than to the audience in my mind. Was a disappointing concert anyway, we were just a small show in the middle of a very long tour for them...
I don't tend to distinguish between the other options, maybe if I went to more concerts I'd start to think more about but in the meantime I'll just enjoy being there. :D
some parts could be looped live, boss makes a loop station, and a loop pedal, that stores loops, porl could be using one, i doubt it, but maybe
i will be honest
i've enjoyed so much Berlin's & Rome's live shows that i don't really care if they
do use tapes or a hidden member.
I prefer them playin live for as long as they can & the final result is good (or shall i say excellent?)
in my ears & my eyes...
Quote from: closedown on February 24, 2008, 09:52:22
Quote from: Oso Blanco on February 22, 2008, 19:40:30
Either you have to re-arrange the songs to get them done without additional keys, guitars or whatever, or you bring additional players on stage with you. Hidden-under-the-stage-band-members or pre-recorded tapes are crap and an insult to the audience!
can see the point in that, though I won't go as far as insult to the audience, that would be for me, if all the instruments are on tape and pretended to be played.
The Cure have in recent years always used a backing with Roger in the band as well - for example 100 Years since 1997, There Is No If, Prayers For Rain since 2000,...
I don't mind backingtapes at all, being used to it as I listen to quite a variation of other bands that use them as well, as it is impossible to play everything live on stage cause you would need 7 keyboardplayers, 2 percussionists + 3 drummers...
what I definetely think it worse is 'hidden' players, like someone playing synths behind the stage or whatever, that to me is a laugh.
and in these days there is more ways than backingtapes, I am not sure what The Cure use during this tour, but there is in general a huge difference for this method which many still name 'backingtape' although being technially totally different, I try to explain it in a hopefully easy way for all.
1) backing-tape: these days usually digitally recorded either on harddisc or adat (a kind of tapemachine) that replaces the old tapemachines (that could for example been seen on stage in the early years of Depeche Mode, still featured famously in the movie 101) - all sounds that can't be reproduced on stage are on that tape and can clearly be heard for the audience - only difference in different shows will be: the loudness in the whole soundmix
2) sequencer: sounds are preprogrammed for the show in samplers or harddiscsystems, the sequencer will be toyed live with + when it runs, it will trigger off the sounds from the samplers and harddiscs -> a live thing, meaning if a sampler breaks down or a sound it wrongly adressed (say the sequencer says channel 12 and the technician wrongly programmed a stringsysnth for that part instead of a trumpet sound, you will hear stringsynthsound).
3) hidden musician: don't have to comment on that (and to me this is simply b*llsh*t) - if someone plays stuff live why shouldn't he be on stage? always found that extremely annoying with Placebo...
the advantage of the sequencer is: you can be more spontaneous, change stuff in the tour or in the show but having more risk of technical breakdowns and it is way more expensive to use... with adat or similar you can make sure it normally works (especially if using a backup system running along), but you can be sure that a song backing always sounds the same on the whole tour -> the way it was prerecorded onto tape.
as said, I don't mind either of these 2 options, as it is obvious for people what is played on stage (if one cares, of course). but I think fans in general have a different attitude towards these things, e.g. a The Cure fan will definetely react in another way than a James (Bl)(C)unt fan....
I have seen shows with backingtapes that were great (The Mission - using it on songs like Tower Of Strength or Butterfly On A Wheel), I have seen shows with sequencers that were great as well (Depeche Mode, New Order), so it doesn't really matter to me.
the thing that matters for me is the way it is done + I don't think too much backing works too well, always thought that Robert has his problems delivering the song, especially noticed that during No If in the Dream Tour, so many versions simply sounded totally off-key. for me it is a slight bit laughable and I think that is a main point in Oso's words as well, Robert said how much better it would be with just guitars and no need for keyboards and then there is those sequences/backingstuff going on, it is definetely strange... one thing is sure, Cure 2008 is definetely far more relied on backings than Cure 1998...
Well said,but I'm not sure,if these procedures,strictly speaking,are no more than "coffin nails"
for a live show.The impression of a reeled off program is a bit uncomfortable and the whole subject
turned into a question of faith for every serious fan.