Quote from: lostflower4 on April 23, 2007, 21:09:33
Yeah, the iRiver is a more ecomical option if you can find it.
One must keep in mind, however, that hard disk players will save you money in the long run since you don't have to keep buying blank media for them. Either they'll have a hard drive built-in, or you can just get a high-capacity flash card.
Plus the fact that you don't have to do any tape flips, etc. makes it an easy choice for me.
Also, these smaller digital recording devices don't necessarily look like recording devices. If you're trying to sneak one in to a venue and get caught during a pat down, just tell them it's your mp3 player.
Quote from: crowbi_wan on April 24, 2007, 02:33:43
Quote from: lostflower4 on April 23, 2007, 21:09:33
Yeah, the iRiver is a more ecomical option if you can find it.
One must keep in mind, however, that hard disk players will save you money in the long run since you don't have to keep buying blank media for them. Either they'll have a hard drive built-in, or you can just get a high-capacity flash card.
Plus the fact that you don't have to do any tape flips, etc. makes it an easy choice for me.
Also, these smaller digital recording devices don't necessarily look like recording devices. If you're trying to sneak one in to a venue and get caught during a pat down, just tell them it's your mp3 player.
So how do you explain the microphones then? :roll:
Wear a jock strap or sew a pocket inside your pants. Put your stuff "down there". You really can't get more stealth than that. :D
& if there's no room? :smth047
:smth043
unforeseen problem for the people who wrote the handbook i guess
(i'd really like to see what they have to say to that "problem" hehehe)
(anyway i was going to say, the best advice: don't be a guy. guys always get searched/patted down, girls don't. or if they do then you can just punch them right in the eye and shout "you freaking pervert!" and that's it.)
Two suggestions for the space limitations issue:
1) use some duct tape to attach to attach any "excess baggage" to your leg.
2) get a knife and free up some space
:smth043
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Any ladies out there wanna come & smuggle a couple of mic's into the Cult gig in Budapest in June for me ;)
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Blimey Marika :shock:
You had a bad week? ;)
i mean in every field of life, true dedication is sort of bound to stand out by itself...
and yet it seems people always try to find an easy way out...
:-D
(getting better now since it's finally saturday!)
Well, I have never tried the "don't be a guy" technique, and it really doesn't interest me all that much, truth be told... Here's what I have done:
In Minidisc days I have:
- The down-the-pants trick. Not quite comfortable/kind of awkward. Maybe practice walking around the house like that? Make sure you're walking normal. It's worked the couple of times I did it, however.
- Put the MD behind my belt buckle, and just worn a shirt that covers that and then some. I was patted down once, and the guy's hand *just* brushed it. My heart kind of jumped, and as I was about to squeak out "uhhhh....camera?", he just waved me in...
In both cases, you have to take it on faith that the guy at the door does not want to get that intimate with you. He just wants to do an "okay" job, or at least look like he is doing his job. Besides, there's probably a whole line of people behind you, and he just wants you to move on...
- My MD recorder came with wallet-like case. I've walked through a couple of patdowns by taking that out of my pocket, along with my keys and just holding my arms out... As if I was just making his job easier... Worked. I've never been through a metal detector, but I imagine the above trick may well work. It takes a tiny amount of nerves, but hiding in plain sight can work.
- Just shoved said wallet-case into my back pocket, some blanks in my boots and waltzed right in. Did that at Curiosa, and no one checked. Idiot me should have bought my Nomad before that... and taped Interpol and Muse as well.
With my Nomad (JB3):
- No problems. I've mainly used it in clubs, and never ones that check. It's a tiny bit smaller than a Discman, and the same shape, so I usually keep some headphones in my pocket. And some songs on it...
With my microphones, I just wear a t-shirt, usually with a hooded sweatshirt over it, and pin them up on either side of my collar. Just put the mic where you want it, pinch the fabric tight around it, and tightly pin it (fabric, NOT the cable) with a safety pin.
Run the cables down your back and around your side, where they can plug into your other gear...
For a short while I had the mics on either side of my head, which is better... I modified a set of those wraparound/around-the-back-of-the-head headphones... I removed the actual headphones and fastened my mics in place... However, it was a pain: I couldn't turn my head without affecting the recording, it felt kind of weird... and now that's I've hacked off all of my hair, it would be quite visible.
In general:
- Stay calm. Act like you normally would. Perhaps this comes easy to some people, but the first time can be a little nervy, especially if you're as tightly wound as I can be at times. After the first time, it gets really easy.
- Check your levels, but not obsessively. That was a tough hurdle for me... Check/set your levels during the opening act, and then PAUSE your recorder while recording. Un-pause as soon as the headliner takes the stage.
- If it is a general-admission/non-seated event, either position yourself at the front of a balcony/mezzanine/raised area of the floor (so you'll have no one directly in front of you), or between the mixing board and the stage. The latter is important for club shows, as the board guy is mixing it according to how he hears it... And is mixing it in such a way to compensate for on-stage guitar and bass cabs. So the mix will sound the best there. In a larger venue, everything is going through the PA, so the only real concern is talkers/singers/yellers in the crowd.
- Pause during encores.
- If you recorder has a LOCK feature, use it once you are recording the set. You don't want to shove the recorder into your pocket only to mash a few buttons and ruin your recording in the process (by inadvertently pressing stop, pause, adjusting the gain, etc, etc).
- If you need to do a disc-swap (MD), give yourself plenty of time. Doing so after a particularly long song, or before one that requires instrument changes is always good. But seriously, give yourself plenty of time.
- If you can, be someplace where you can either drive to, or live nearby, in the event that you need to stow your gear somewhere, and cannot check it at the coat-check...
(This is going to be annoying, as I'm heading to NY to see the Jesus & Mary Chain reunion, so I'm really kinda taking a chance)
Lastly, size up the show and the crowd it will attract... Too many times I have just left my stuff at home, thinking I'd be checked. The more aggressive the music, or the younger the crowd, the more likely you'll be checked. Big venues/arenas like to check, too.
Unfortunately, following these rules has caused me to miss a number of taping opportunities...
... the Stooges this year, NIN on their small-theatre tour in 2005, Duran Duran in 2004 (it was an arena, I figured I'd be checked)...
Taping-regret SUCKS.
I'll see if I can think of anything else....
I use the jock strap trick. It HAS to be the most uncomfortable thing in the world. It is so uncomfortable that I have modified my hockey gear so that I can have the cup in my equipment rather than have to play while wearing a jock.
Any way, I shove everything down in the pocket of the jock and waltz in. Rarely do they ever get that close that they will feel it. Once I get inside, I go right to the mens room to get some relief....off comes the jock to the most liberating of feelings! I then shove the jock in a pocket.
Of course, you could always get lucky and not get checked. If you could have seen me at the London 06 show....monopod for the video camera down the right leg of my pants, camcorder with the strap looped through the zipper of my jeans. various canles in the pants pockets. I wore a hockey coaches jacket which has many pockets including a hidden pocket on the sleeve (for your whistle when you are on the ice). I had a USB battery pack for the microtrack in there, the microtrack in another pocket. CF cards, cables, a screwdriver for the monopod, videotapes.....and no one thought twice about patting me down (luckily).
Before my taping days, I was lucky enough to get backstage passes for Camden 04. I knew that cameras were not allowed, so I had my digital camera down my pants. There was a HUGE brotha at the door patting people down. he patted me down and brushed against the camera. He jumped back and gave me a look, then let me in. I guess he thought I was happy he was patting me down! :smth023
Also at the same venue in Camden, I took my son to Ozzfest. I had him bring in a backpack with a sweatshirt and some water. I cut the liner of the backpack and hid my gear inside there. He wasn't even touched on the way in. They simply asked him if he had any bombs in the bag and he said no and they let him in. Nothing like having my son take the fall for me. What a great father I am!
Quote from: rjl on May 05, 2007, 19:43:14
Well, I have never tried the "don't be a guy" technique, and it really doesn't interest me all that much, truth be told...
well i was simply referring to the fact that at least around here it seems like it would be really easy to get past the security if you happen to be a woman (by birth ;)). women don't get body searched at all, they'll just ask you to please open your backpack or whatever you might have with you, have a quick look and let you go. no metal detectors either. so it would be really easy to get in.
(yet i'm not sure if a guy dressed up as a girl would do the trick...)
and yes, taping regret sucks. then again, i'm not lucky enough to live in a major nerve-center of music life, it's disappointing but it's a fact that not so many interesting bands come here on their tours. and it would surely be reasonable for me to tape, because not so many people do around here anyway - almost everytime i go to see a gig here i can be pretty much 110% sure that i won't find a single recording of it - so i should be wise to do it myself. on the other hand, i simply don't get that many chances to see the bands i really like since they rarely come around here (if at all). and when i get a chance, maybe i don't want to spend that special occasion worrying about the levels etc. - call it pathetic from a dedicated taper's point of view but it might be the only time i ever get to see this or that group that i really like so i want to enjoy it the best i can. so i guess it's a matter of choice. yet i'm sure if i could be certain that i'll have more chances to see more shows then i could easily hmm, "sacrifice" some of them.
but i guess i should find a friend to do it for me: make sure he/she knows how to use the equipment and buy him/her a ticket. that's something to consider, i guess.
anyway, i'd go for those HD recorders for sure. i see no reason why to use MD anymore.
agreed.
Quote from: lostflower4 on May 06, 2007, 12:51:31
P.S. Why is r-e-p-u-t-a-t-i-o-n censored here?
hey don't say p-u-t-a, thats such a naughty naughty word! :smth018
ps. actually, i've noticed and asked about the same thing too, see:
http://www.curefans.com/index.php/topic,3432.msg22372.html#msg22372
isn't it so funny how we both got reminded by the same "source" there.... hmmmm....
how come? :shock:
:smth043
test
reputation
Quote from: japanesebaby on May 03, 2007, 08:50:59
the best advice: don't be a guy. guys always get searched/patted down, girls don't. or if they do then you can just punch them right in the eye and shout "you freaking pervert!" and that's it.)
Actually, I've been to a few shows where there were women to search on girls. So how would you do it ? :lol: Pants... still the best way I suppose. Or in a bag, most small venues barely check them.
Quote from: lostflower4 on May 11, 2007, 01:32:18
Quote from: Descent on May 11, 2007, 01:28:56
Quote from: japanesebaby on May 03, 2007, 08:50:59
the best advice: don't be a guy. guys always get searched/patted down, girls don't. or if they do then you can just punch them right in the eye and shout "you freaking pervert!" and that's it.)
Actually, I've been to a few shows where there were women to search on girls. So how would you do it ? :lol: Pants... still the best way I suppose. Or in a bag, most small venues barely check them.
Yep, just like how they bring women cops to the scene of an incident to search people...
Seriously, I think down the pants is the only way to go. I mean, why take any chances?
hmm if a woman started groping me there i think that would just give me all the more reason to punch her in the eye and shout out my slogan haha ;)
well ok yes just joking of course. i've seen that too a few times. but still, i've always noticed that they barely body-search women as carefully as they do guys. and besides, at least on larger venues they always have several lines at the door because otherwise it would take forever for people to get in. and they just can't change the security person in every line from guy to woman and back to guy etc. according to whether it's a guy or a girl there in the queue next. so i'd simply choose a line where i can see a security guy and not a security lady being stationed there and then there's no fear of being patted down at all. it's easy to avoid the lines with female security.
("pants is the only way" - i think you sound like you're all pants-crazy or something! seriously! :-D)
So, I went with the "down the pants" method the other day for a Morrissey concert because the ticket stated search required. I've heard some stories about Moz and didn't want to take the chance. There was no search! There was much discomfort, though. This was at the same venue were Tenacious D played who allow open taping. For that show I was totally groped. Go figure. A few days later I went to see Chris Cornell. For this show I decided to use my "it's just an mp3 player" method. Security was pretty tight as this was a "secret gig" that you could only win tickets to. The big guys were doing pretty thorough searches. Of course they wanted to know what I had in my pocket. So, without hesitation I pulled out just my player and was allowed in, no questions asked. Screw the pants method.
I asked one of the guys who taped Carson 2004 how he got past the metal detectors. Here's what he said:
Remember, going into a concert isn't the same as getting on a plane, so I just sorta bluff my way in, I don't take my keys out of the pocket until they specifically tell me to, lots of change, fumble etc.
Hmmm... I don't know if I'm that slick. :lol:
Well, get one of those big cowboy belt buckles and hide your gear in your pants. When they scan you and the detector goes off you'll have a valid excuse. Or, you could always grease them. Security guards make shit. $50 or a dime bag might do the trick :lol:
Quote from: crowbi_wan on May 30, 2007, 20:58:24
Well, get one of those big cowboy belt buckles and hide your gear in your pants.
and back to the pants-mania, again!
Quote from: japanesebaby link=topic=3345.msg23418#msg23418
and back to the pants-mania, again!
And who thought that searching for a perfect hiding solution would include looking at softcore porn?
https://www.internationaljock.com/jockstraps,266240.html
https://www.internationaljock.com/protective-hard-cups-with-jockstrap,262144.html
:oops:
I think Brian had the best idea here:
(http://www.newsblab.com/zach_buckle.jpg)
An excuse for metal detectors, and you could just hide all your gear behind it. :-D
You could hide a camcorder behind that thing! Hmmm...I'm getting an idea here folks.
:smth043
You could probably hide the entire band behind that thing.
What is it, a solar panel, or satellite dish? :shock:
Quote from: dsanchez on November 13, 2007, 16:48:18
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 12, 2007, 11:07:03
And it means working out the best place for your mics.. i suggest out of a button up shirt.. just two little mics peeping out saying hello...
This is the usual way? Does anyone put the mic somewhere else?
What about talking? Can you talk to your friend while taping?
I always wear either a black polo shirt or a button up shirt....something with a collar (black is key because the mics and cables blend in better). I hit the mens room the minute I get in and get everything set. I have a belt clip on my battery box, so that goes on the belt. One end of the mic goes to the recorder which is in my front pocket. then I run the mics up inside my shirt, and have the mics hanging out of the top button (not the one that gets buttoned when you wear a tie- the one below that one). I then tuck the mics back inside the shirt underneath the button. This way, they are virtually invisible.
I wait until close to the time the band will come on, and I then clip the mics to the front of each collar and get ready to go. Another word of advice....don't talk! My mexico recording picked up people that were 3 rows in front of me!
Thanks for the tips :smth023 I've been running Sonics for about 7 months now and have always just clipped them to my glasses. My thinking was that's the preferred method since the mics come with glasses mounting loops. It had never even occurred to me to hat mount them. Makes sense, though. The higher the better. I'll give it a go at some up coming shows.
If you're curious about my results from the Download Festival, you can download a sample here http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G58RQHHB Recoded from 101 N 7.
I considered hat mounting my CSBs but could never find a way to run the cables down to the recorder without looking obvious. I played around with a hat to use in Mexico, then had my wife take a look. She was saying how obvious the cables looked running down the back of my neck. The highest I have been able to clip them is the collar on my shirt, which is about 4 inches below my ears and have gotten good results. For those that have my London 06 audio recording, I clipped the mics to the outside of the balcony. All others are clipped to my collar.
I learned the hard way regarding the height of the mics. When I lived in Ireland, I went to the Download festival and recorded Avenged Sevenfold (just to get my levels right), Alice In Chains, and Metallica. I set up next to the SBD for Avenged and put the mics on my collar. The show was during daylight hours (in Dublin, it is daylight until 11pm in the summer) and I swear that EVERYONE was looking at the mics. I am not a paranoid person, but it was painfully obvious.
I stayed with it for Avenged and pulled a good tape (which I couldn't be arsed about, as they say in Ireland). So, for AIC and Metallica, I clipped the mics to the bottom of my shirt so that people wouldn't be able to see them as much. The recordings are the worst I have ever made. Literally, the Metallica recording sounds like I recorded a drunken frat house party where they had a radio in the corner playing Metallica and all of the drunk guys are screaming the lyrics. Horrible. Moral of the story....get those mics up high!
thats great about simon noticing that guy in berlin!! I would say there are probably 15+ masters of the trilogy shows..The band used to look for the blue lights back before everyone had cell phones, but only for laughing purposes (they didnt care if you tape it)
Glasses are fine for sonics, as thats how they are meant to be worn, Glasses height is only about 2-3 inches lower than where you will get them in a hat, but its about 12 inches above the higher parts on the chest (and its an important 12 inches). You want the mics to have some seperation from each other so glasses do accomplish that
about getting caught before the show, well, really not much you can do (again this is why you dont want to be busting out audience tapes of some opening band that will never be remembered 18 months from now). If you want that bands tape really bad get there club show when they come back on their own tour and play a full set! Its really hard to get caught today with all the electronic gizmos going into an arena. Just do all the thing mentioned earlier to avoid getting caught.
personal favorites
1) loading up with change in the pockets in case of metal detectors.
2) wrap you recording equip in a sock to soften it up if you gotta go underneath. It avoids the hard "tap" if your going against a heavy frisk. If its sorta soft most of those $10 hour guys dont even want to know whats going on.
3) usually you can wear your mics in and tuck it under your shirt. Rolling mic cords into a ball to fit them in a sock or something ends up over time ruining the mic cords (see my dead pair of sonics according to leaonard)
4) find yourself a tapers jacket..one with a nice big pocket mounted on the front so you can drop the recorder in there and look in there easily and see levels without having to pull the gizmo out causing these three things that can go wrong (1) you accidentally unplug your mic (2) you cause pops if there is a somoewhat delicate connection (3) someone see's you doing it and busts you. Cut a small hole in the pocket to run the wires in through the back of the pocket
There was a guy who clipped his CSBs to glasses at a Garbage club show, and he was easily x2 my height. AND he got busted by security. It was so obvious.
Glasses mounts are nice as stated but you definitely want to be careful and not have them stick out, especially if your glasses are thin frame and the mic clips like the CSBs are thicker and obvious.
Sound Professionals sell mics that allow you mount on croakies for glasses. Use these if you will but friends who run these mics hate them because they muffle up the mid to high end capturing of the mics. You could use visor mounts too if you don't care about fashion (visors mostly worn by senior citizen golfers).
You can wear a baseball cap backwards and use the visor to cover back of the neck/wires. If you don't look like a taper people will just think you're doing that to be trendy/cool/hip hop.
I wish I had a similar setup to Ernst's jacket. I could have easily spotted the DAT deck settings mistake early on despite the security guard 2 meters away from me, and not come home with an overclipped Download Festival tape.
Croakie mount works great for me. I've encountered many ushers and security guards â€" and even a crazy cop who was really concerned about me taking pictures and made me stop... Not to mention friends I've run into who had no clue what I was doing (and they'd definitely be asking me for a copy if they did know).
Bringing my camera in has drawn A LOT of attention, though. Several times I've gotten reactions from other audience members, like "Ooooh... You're not supposed to have that!" But the audio has always gone undisturbed.
Just hang your glasses down around your neck and put them on when the lights go down. When the show is over and the lights come back on, put them back down around your neck. Wearing a hat helps everything blend in.
I've done my own custom job, where the mics are secured into place and just barely sticking out at the end (so nothing is muffled):
(http://www.imaginary-lemurs.com/images/Croakie%20Mount.jpg)
I'm sorry...but I have to say.. you people are amazing what you will go through to get a good taping of a show!! Kinda reminds me of those James Bond movies... Well done, you are incredibly ingenious!!!! Plus, I wouldn't have the you- know- whats to even try it...I think I would easily get caught.. probably be the profuse sweating that would give me away..( not a normal occurance with me...would be the nerves!!)
I'm glad you post this for all of us to read, it really makes me appreciate what you guys do.... :smth023
I'm speechless, to say the least. Those infrasound glasses did it for me! You guys are geniouses, in fact I wouldn't exactly be surprised if you had a rocketman device attached to your backs in order to avoid getting caught by those blimey security guards!
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/551/rocketmansiloje4.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/551/rocketmansiloje4.1115c744d7.jpg) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=112&i=rocketmansiloje4.gif)
I'm happy that you tapers are doing such a great work, I really do appreciate it. The quality of bootleg recordings has substantially changed (to the better), being compared to what we could heard some ten years ago(and more) and this because of your never ending efforts to get better equipment, take better positions, attach the mics on the right height, and so on. I'm amazed. You've really mastered the whole thing!
Quote from: Hlektron on June 10, 2008, 17:08:10
in fact I wouldn't exactly be surprised if you had a rocketman device attached to your backs in order to avoid getting caught by those blimey security guards!
excellent idea, thanks for the tip :smth023 - at least it's good to have that as a backup should the number one distraction, the good old jedi mind trick ever fail me. :-D
i'm sure an average venue security should be ok with the rocket stuff - just as long i remember not to bring the mother of all prohibited items:
request signs <-- :smth011
ps. @j, did you remember to bring your satellite dish sized cowboy belt buckle down to texas? (http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cowboy7.gif)
Duh. How do you think I got my gear in? :lol:
Seriously, though, I think that Porl saw my mics last night. He just kept looking at me and squinting. I kind of smirked and he did the same. Maybe he was just trying to figure out why a guy in a rocket suit was in the 3rd row!