the cure wins loudness war 2008

japanesebaby · October 23, 2008, 11:10:16

it seems kind of approriate to resurrect this topic (too) as it's (half-)official by now just what 4:13 turned out to be...

Quote from: mahood on July 05, 2008, 02:38:58
the production of the 2004 album was way better than what we heard so far, i think.

i'm still not exactly sure which way it is: did the sound-destruction of 4:13 happen because robert was in charge or because he wasn't in charge? it's a bit hazy to me, just what part this keith uddin played in the production of the singles. the (very sparse) sleeve notes obly say "produced & mixed by robert smith & keith uddin".
not sure (yet) if the album will state the same credits.
in any case, a year ago i would have never thought i'd say this today - but i do miss ross robinson today!

crowbi_wan · October 23, 2008, 15:17:37

Quote from: japanesebaby on October 23, 2008, 11:10:16
but i do miss ross robinson today!

I feel the same about David Allen, Michael Hedges, and Phil Thornalley.

rodney · October 23, 2008, 17:40:23

I think the sound quality on the finished product is better than the 'Mix 13' versions of the songs.

mahood · October 24, 2008, 00:35:50

Quote from: crowbi_wan on October 23, 2008, 15:17:37
Quote from: japanesebaby on October 23, 2008, 11:10:16
but i do miss ross robinson today!
I feel the same about David Allen, Michael Hedges, and Phil Thornalley.

well, mike hedges did the best production for cure (again!) in 2005 (i.e., the best production they have had in the last 16 years), with the 4play re-recordings of songs from the first 4 LPs.
3 musicians, a wonderful sound, wonderful versions, and that was it.
simple as that.
but apparently not.

and i still think it was a totally different story with ross robinson (from the one happening with 4:13 dream) : you can say & criticize what you want about this album, at least there was an aesthetical choice, a rather radical one, and i can definitely respect him & robert for that. it may not have suited every song on the album, but some like lost & this morning gained an emergency & a tension whe didn't hear since the best B-sides from wild mood swings (despite huge differences in the production).
had the 2004 LP been not loudness-wared, it would have been great (the 3 "demos" from these sessions are the best proof of that).
de-loudnesswar (OK, after this one i stop writing neologisms) the new album, it would be exactly the same mud, only lower (which apparently is the case).

DroidAKov · October 24, 2008, 15:58:07

That reminds me, why can't Mike Hedges just be employed to produce everything?

Although I understand it is also a question of good mastering.

Is it some sort of contractual issue with the Mighty U or is it simply Roberts choice?

Or does Mike/Robert want more control than the other is prepared to give?

Time to start a petition demanding The Hedges be allowed to 'save' the proposed dark album methinks!

AStaticWhiteSound · November 01, 2008, 04:02:25

It's really a shame that all this time spent working on the album and rescheduling the tour LAST year ended up being kind of marred by the really disappointing sound engineering on 4:13. Porl has so much wah and flanger stuff going on with his guitar work, and Jason has so many cymbal crashes, and even Simon went heavy on the bass distortion, that mixed with the terrible compression, a lot of the new songs sound...mashed up? It's hard to even hear the bass drum on some of the songs. It's too bad, but hopefully the said "dark" album won't turn out that way! If you listen to Disintegration, it is one of the loudest and heaviest Cure albums, yet it creates such an atmosphere by resisting the urge to crank up the volume levels, which 4:13 did not. Whoever was in charge of the sound engineering on 4:13 should have taken another listen before finalizing everything. While I do think the album versions of the singles were better than the "mix 13's", the album versions still had room for improvement, sound mixing wise. It's too bad really

Otherwise, I think the album is pretty good, but it brings it down a little not being able to even process what is going on in the guitar portions of the songs. Theoretically speaking, there is "too much cowbell"

patitodark · November 01, 2008, 19:47:41

Quote from: AStaticWhiteSound on November 01, 2008, 04:02:25
Jason has so many cymbal crashes

In 4:13 Dream he has played less cymbals than in the previous albums! in the self-titled Jason abused using LOTS of cymbals, using crashes to keep time, etc.

But this is not new: just watch/listen how he adds cymbals in the intro of Prayers for Rain, A night like this, Open, Lullaby, etc. The guy destroys many classic songs.

AStaticWhiteSound · November 02, 2008, 04:23:44

Quote from: patitodark on November 01, 2008, 19:47:41
Quote from: AStaticWhiteSound on November 01, 2008, 04:02:25
Jason has so many cymbal crashes

In 4:13 Dream he has played less cymbals than in the previous albums! in the self-titled Jason abused using LOTS of cymbals, using crashes to keep time, etc.

But this is not new: just watch/listen how he adds cymbals in the intro of Prayers for Rain, A night like this, Open, Lullaby, etc. The guy destroys many classic songs.

Wow, well I don't own the self titled album yet, lol, but that's too bad to hear really! Boris had the capability to overdo it, but he held back and didn't, which made him a great drummer. He used simplicity to add to the beauty of the songs as they were crafted. Just listen to A Night Like This or any of the other really "pretty" Cure songs and you can hear that he is doing it just right. Maybe Jason thinks that he has to use complicated fills to prove that he is a good enough drummer for the Cure, even though the Cure was founded upon simpler, minimalistic beats. Oh well, not much we can do about it now :roll: