Lossless vs. MP3

Started by Bloodflower9, November 05, 2006, 08:22:02

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Bloodflower9

So, call me crazy (really, feel free), but I can't hear the difference between "To Wish Impossible Things" (the song I decided to test this on) encoded at MP3 320kb/s and the same song in Apple Lossless.

Maybe I've got a banana in my ear, but if the difference isn't noticeable, then what's the point?

crowbi_wan

try it at 192 or 128.  also, play two songs consecutively.  that little click between the songs.  that's one big difference.  gaps blow.

cult_hero

there are no gaps when you use ogg.

@Bloodflower9: if you are using a good encoder and choose a high bitrate you won't hear a difference. you can just see it.  :roll:

japanesebaby

Quote from: cult_hero on November 05, 2006, 14:03:51
there are no gaps when you use ogg.

@Bloodflower9: if you are using a good encoder and choose a high bitrate you won't hear a difference. you can just see it.  :roll:

gapless ogg actually only confuses things more because a great number of people seem to think everthing gapless must be lossless and then trade it as lossless, maybe also upload it to trackers for lossless. it's of course perfectly ok with me, what format people prefer in their personal collections, but i'm just a bit bored with receiving this gapless ogg in trades because a trade like that is as good as if i just sent over my shows to someone for free.
so in this respect, ironically mp3 is actually "better" in this respect because at least most people usually notice those microgaps and know what they are dealing with then.

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 05, 2006, 14:26:08so in this respect, ironically mp3 is actually "better" in this respect because at least most people usually notice those microgaps and know what they are dealing with then.

Yeah, it's almost a blessing that mp3 has this telltale sign, or the problem of people trading lossy shows would be even worse. As for OGG, it beats mp3 if you don't want gaps, but I don't think there's any real difference in sound quality unless you use something like 500 kbps. And if you're going to get that extreme, why not just use FLAC?


Quote from: cult_hero on November 05, 2006, 14:03:51you won't hear a difference. you can just see it.  :roll:

But if you're actively trading, it matters. I don't know many serious collectors seeking OGG files. 8)

Bloodflower9

So the whole difference is the little gap between songs? Really? I suppose that's fine if I'm listening to Sgt. Pepper, but unless one track fades into another, then is it even worth my time? And who cares what you see? This is music, isn't it? I'm a little disappointed; I wanted to think that by changing to a lossless format, I would be able to enjoy the music more. But I just can't tell the difference. Now it just seems like a huge waste of space.

Darth Blood

Well, MP3 wiyh high bitrate have no problems... the proble are the whole universe of mp3 shows in low bitrate circulating on the net...


:rocker
Darth Blood

japanesebaby

Quote from: Darth Blood on November 05, 2006, 20:23:47
Well, MP3 wiyh high bitrate have no problems... the proble are the whole universe of mp3 shows in low bitrate circulating on the net...


:rocker

exactly. bloodflower9, try downloading some of the poorest quality 128 kb/s mp3 show over from the mp3 section, then get your hands on the lossless copy of the same thing and compare those: it's be like black and white. and the extra problem with the ages old mp3 file sets is that judging from their horrific quality, they've been converted to wav>mp3>wav>mp3 etc. dozens of time which has caused unimaginable damage to the quality - so '128 kb/s' isn't even a proper description anymore, they are far inferior than that. sure, if you take some pristine lossless recording and convert that to 320 kb/s you probably won't hear much anything different. but convert to 128 kb/s and you'll start noticing something. then do that mp3>wav>mp3>wav converstion about 20 times and compare again. etc. every time you do the mp3>wav>mp3 thing the sound quality notable degenerates, because it's being compressed again and again and again and.... 
because amazingly many of these mp3 file sets that are still being uploaded today originate from the early stages of internet/mp3s, so they are really old and were encoded with pretty bad encoders somewhere in the beginning of time. and they were re-compresesd to death a million times. 
try this and you'll see it's not something only visual.

besides, the point made about trading is important, even to those people who don't trade themselves. because how do new shows, maybe some shows that have been hidden for years and years, how do some people manage to finally get then and and put them into wider circulation, to share with wider community? well, at least it won't happen with mp3s or ogg. tapers and people with good collections aren't interested getting some compressed file sets in exchange for their masters.

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine


lostflower4


japanesebaby

Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33


hmm well, maybe just think of it as if i personally just find lossy formats like ogg etc. to be a little bit... hmmm...
"undemanding"? ;)

i mean, at least personally i don't see it primarily as a question of anyone's mental well-being or something related. i really don't think the issues here were never quite that extreme...
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

bluewater

Life's too short to listen to lossy music

lostflower4


bluewater

Life's too short to listen to lossy music

lostflower4

Quote from: bluewater on November 18, 2006, 20:03:48
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2006, 11:59:41
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33


It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"

You mean 4'33"? :lol:

No, I mean the edited version.

I have an extended remix. Wanna trade?

However, I'm only looking for a lossless copy. :smth001