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The Cure => Band members and their solo projects => Topic started by: Ulrich on July 15, 2015, 10:49:23

Title: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on July 15, 2015, 10:49:23
Although it is not really a "solo project", I'm missing a topic about Robert's stint as the guitarist in Siouxsie & the Banshees.
This happened twice, 1979 (for a tour only) and 1982-1984 (various tours, tv appearances, a single, a live album + a studio album).

Here you can find a new article incl. 2 nice vids from a tv show in 1979!  :smth020
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/siouxsie_and_the_banshees_with_a_young_robert_smith_on_something_else_1979 (http://dangerousminds.net/comments/siouxsie_and_the_banshees_with_a_young_robert_smith_on_something_else_1979)

Melt & Painted Bird (OGWT 1982)
https://youtu.be/s-5mVUb1gqM (https://youtu.be/s-5mVUb1gqM)
https://youtu.be/y5jmB4xgNWw (https://youtu.be/y5jmB4xgNWw)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturne_(Siouxsie_and_the_Banshees_album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturne_(Siouxsie_and_the_Banshees_album))

Nice article about "Hyeana" (1984):
http://www.post-punk.com/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-hyaena-turns-30/ (http://www.post-punk.com/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-hyaena-turns-30/)

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on December 01, 2015, 12:12:03
http://www.post-punk.com/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-nocturne/ (http://www.post-punk.com/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-nocturne/)

QuoteOne of the best Post-Punk live albums of all time is most certainly Siouxsie & The Banshees' Nocturne. Recorded September 30th and October 1st, and released on November 25th, 1983, Nocturne was a double live album and concert video from two amazing sets at Royal Albert Hall in London.

The concerts were two homecoming gigs after the band had performed abroad in Japan, Australia, and Israel—and followed the released of the Dear Prudence single which marked the acquisition of The Cure's Robert Smith as an official member of the band. Smith had previously been a temporary member replacing John McKay for the remainder of the Join Hands tour in '79, so this was the Cure singer/guitarists second time filling in for an outgoing Banshees guitarist—in this case the hard to fill shoes of the brilliant John McGeoch.

You can pick up a copy of Nocturne in the upcoming Banshees boxsets, the first of which is due out on January 29th, 2016.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on February 11, 2016, 19:37:13
Need to listen to Hyeana; I guess I was always put off by a couple of disparaging remarks made by Robert about the strings etc.

Anyway, travelling to Jerusalem with the Banshees was a direct inspiration for The Wailing Wall, which to me is one of The Cure's greatest songs. I've come across a couple of testimonies on his brief stay in Israel (I read Hebrew) and by all accounts he didn't have the best of times, consumed industrial amounts of beer and refused to speak about The Cure with local enthusiasts... Not that you'd assume as much listening to the song, which is of course among The Cure's most uplifting!  :-D 

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 12, 2016, 16:03:13
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on February 11, 2016, 19:37:13
Need to listen to Hyeana; I guess I was always put off by a couple of disparaging remarks made by Robert about the strings etc.

Well, it's not a bad album. It has its flaws and Robert probably hears 'em more than we do.  ;)
I guess he saw its potential and wasn't too happy about the result. ("Out of the 10 songs finally chosen for 'Hyaena' four are good and six are boring" is what he said once.)

I listened to it around the time I made that post (or a bit before) and enjoyed it. And that article from post-punk I linked is good, they're right: Robert's guitar work on "Blow the house down" is amazing.  :smth020
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on February 12, 2016, 18:52:14
Yeah I agree, it deserves careful consideration regardless of what Robert said about it one time or another.

Not good at listening to entire albums in a single intake but Take Me Back is such a great song! I'm gonna go ahead and assume that the idea for Budgie's ace marimba riff came from Robert and/or Severin under the influence of Captain Beefheart, their favourite and mine :D Especially in a year when Robert penned his superb Trout Mask Replica homage, Give Me It.

BY THE WAY, from today's perspective Siouxsie's fat-shaming of Robert ("fat Bob", and I seem to remember "fat boy Smith") is "problematic", though Gothic rock goddesses cannot be expected to abide by the laws of political correctness, I suppose. Always thought he looked amazing in 1984 though.   
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 27, 2016, 17:43:02
If The Hanging Garden is The Cure's great Banshees-style single, this is literally a Cure pop song by Siouxsie & co

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6P5TUpN-VU#)
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:34:52
Three interviews that, reading between the lines, can tell you a bit of what led to Robert leaving the Banshees.
Pity that Robert never managed to get John McGeoch into The Cure, that could have been incredible, but maybe they couldn't find each other at the right time.

The last we know about Robert having anything to do with the Banshees was that very recent pic of him and Severin in Edinburgh. Hope Severin's ok.

www.musicfanclubs.org (interview from Guitar World, June 1996) -click to read in its entirety- (http://www.musicfanclubs.org/cure/press/I11.html)

Quote
[...] GW: How did playing with the Banshees impact your guitar style?

RS: It allowed me to experiment. I inherited an approach from John [McKay, the Banshee's first guitarist] which was just to have everything full up, really. It was just a matter of getting somewhere in the region of the right chord and you got away with it. Severin's bass was so loud, Budgie's drums were so thunderous, and Siouxsie's voice was so loud in the mix that there was very little room for guitar. It was phased/flanged distortion noise, really. There were only about 5 songs where I had to learn the parts. The rest of it was just in a key.

It was a lot more interesting the second time I played with the Banshees and inherited John McGeoch's setup. [_McGeoch has also played with Magazine, Visage, and P.I.L.] He had an old MXR flanger mounted on a mike stand; he'd hit a chord and sweep the flange knob in real time. I actually watched a video of what he was doing and that gave me insight. They wanted me to use his guitar, but I refused - again, on grounds of aesthetics! I said, "That's an ugly instrument. I'm not going to play it." But I used his amp instead.

GW: John McGeoch is a sadly underrated and unappreciated guitarist.

RS: Yes, he is. I used to go out with him quite a bit. He left the Banshees under a bit of a cloud, but he stayed friendly with me and Severin. Last time I saw him was about 4 years ago, I think, in a hotel lobby. It was toward the end of his tenure with P.I.L. There was a real air of desperation - they weren't getting anywhere. We were leaving to go to a gig and so were they. It was in America so we were playing this Enormo-Dome sort of place and they were playing a club. John Lydon had an attitude of "I should be doing that, not them." It was really weird. McGeoch was kind of stuck in the middle, apologizing for having to side with his band. [...]



The Independent (Nov/02/1997) -click to read in its entirety- (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/arts-alas-smith-and-clones-1291727.html)

Quote
[...] Those with long memories will recall that Smith was the Banshees guitarist for 18 months in the early Eighties, playing, most memorably, on the single "Dear Prudence". Asked if there was any ego clash between himself and the famously spiky Siouxsie Sioux, he permits himself a brief explosion of mirth, a sort of wheezy snigger. "It caused quite a lot of friction at the time, because the Cure were actually selling more records than the Banshees. We did 'Lovecats' and it was a big hit! When I was with the Banshees, I refused any payment. It meant they couldn't make me do anything. Sioux found it difficult; she's unused to males saying no to her." There's a long pause after this statement. "I've not seen or spoken to her but I'm not sure that Sioux and I would be on very good terms. She'd probably hold a grudge." [...]



www.untiedundone.com (interview from UNCUT, January 2005) -click to read in its entirety- (http://www.untiedundone.com/020105b.html)

Quote
[...] "WHY'S HE ON THE COVER?" demands Siouxsie Sioux. "Fat fool!"

"He" is Robert Smith and "the cover" is that of Uncut's sister publication NME Originals, their recent edition dedicated to goth. Or "goff", as the erstwhile queen of punk snorts derisively. Maybe Siouxsie has never fully forgiven the Cure frontman and one-time Banshees guitarist for deserting her band on the eve of a 1984 world tour. As Smith recently told Uncut (Take 87), he was diagnosed with chronic blood poisoning and quit on doctor's orders. Siouxsie's having none of it.

"It wasn't like he became ill," she complains. "He was one of those people who just didn't say 'no' to anything, so when it's self-induced it's hard to have sympathy. To actually say two days before a tour that's been planned in advance that he can't do it - f*** off! What a lightweight."

Or maybe she should have been on the cover herself? [...]
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:51:06
Another interesting fact is that certain Banshees fans have Robert in more or less the same position as Jason Cooper.

In The Cure, it's a Jason Cooper vs Boris Williams "war".
The Banshees version of that flamewar, it's Robert Smith vs John McGeoch.

The fun side of the story is that, if I'm not mistaken, there must be one record having "something" (can't say exactly what) containing Robert Smith, John McGeoch and maybe even Porl Thompson.
That's obviously Blue Sunshine.

If you have that album, look at the leaflet. You'll see a reference to a "recorded using the fish-panning method by Mr.Waverley". If I'm not wrong, that Mr.Waverley is none other than John McGeoch (the Mr.Waverley thing comes after a boat called Waverley in Greenock, McGeoch's birthplace in Scotland).

Interestingly, Martin McCarrick, who joined the Banshees in 1987, also appears on Blue Sunshine, as well as Andy Anderson and (if I remember correctly), some reference to "Porl and Lol".
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 11:38:07
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on February 11, 2016, 19:37:13
Need to listen to Hyeana; I guess I was always put off by a couple of disparaging remarks made by Robert about the strings etc.

I don't own the Ten Imaginary Years book (oficial Cure bio 1976-1986), but I seem to remember Reading about him not being very satisfied with the keyboards masking his guitar parts a bit too much.

Besides, he didn't get as much credit as he'd like, and that, for a second time, because he wrote or co-wrote at least one song from Kaleidoscope ('Hybrid', and correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember him claiming his involvement in 'Christine').

Quote from: Ulrich on February 12, 2016, 16:03:13
Well, it's not a bad album. It has its flaws and Robert probably hears 'em more than we do.  ;)
I guess he saw its potential and wasn't too happy about the result. ("Out of the 10 songs finally chosen for 'Hyaena' four are good and six are boring" is what he said once.)

Must be that six songs were his, but he got no credit for that.
One is certainly 'Swimming Horses', which he as good as rewrote and turned into 'Six Different Ways'.

Interestingly, there's a funny number of Banshees/Creatures songs that have something to do with The Cure... or in reverse.

In 1987, the Banshees released the B-side 'The Whole Price Of Blood' -click to listen- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqM1QXir7E), containing a previous recording of Robert on sitar.

Later on, in 1998, The Creatures released the song Pinned Down -click to listen- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rURap5H8sqI), which... has a riff that is suspiciously similar to 'M'.

And in 1999, The Creatures released the song Exterminating Angel -click to listen- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7EohbF2A_I), which ressembles Wailing Wall more than a bit.

Finally, in 2008 The Cure released Sleep When I'm Dead, whose bassline ressembles quite a lot the Candyman bassline (Robert said it was a "Head On The Door outtake"). Candyman -click to listen- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTRPcUIOHxY) was recorded by the Banshees in 1985, released in 1986. It's in the Tinderbox album, which I've always found it has some vague similarity to Distintegration, to some degree (and it has a 'Lullaby', too, although the Banshees 'Lullaby' is just a B-side -a very good one though).

Curious, isn't it?

Quote from: Ulrich on February 12, 2016, 16:03:13I listened to it around the time I made that post (or a bit before) and enjoyed it. And that article from post-punk I linked is good, they're right: Robert's guitar work on "Blow the house down" is amazing.  :smth020

Indeed it is.

Click here to watch a live recording of the Banshees in 1984 (Running Town, Bring Me The Head Of The Preacher Man, and an incomplete Blow The House Down) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D90qEeEFerM).
It's the only time I've seen Robert play his famous "fishbone" broken guitar.
The three of them sound rather different from the album versions btw.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on June 24, 2016, 11:29:45
Quote from: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:51:06
The Banshees version of that flamewar, it's Robert Smith vs John McGeoch.

Where does that happen? I've never visited a Banshees forum in my life (if there is one), maybe better that way.  ;)

Quote from: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:51:06
That's obviously Blue Sunshine.

If you have that album, look at the leaflet.

I have it (vinyl bought in early 90's or so), no leaflet inside though.  :roll:
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on June 24, 2016, 18:02:28
Did a bit of Google research and found this article about "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse" and why and how John McGeoch had to be replaced (not a very nice story, but told by Severin and Sioux themselves):

http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-we-were-losing-our-minds-2572
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: stefano on June 24, 2016, 18:04:15
Quote from: Ulrich on June 24, 2016, 18:02:28
Did a bit of Google research and found this article about "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse" and why and how John McGeoch had to be replaced (not a very nice story, but told by Severin and Sioux themselves):

http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/siouxsie-and-the-banshees-we-were-losing-our-minds-2572
danke, Ulrich !
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 29, 2016, 07:04:18
Severin on Facebook:

May 2:

QuoteSlowly but surely, on the mend. Upgrading the studio this summer. Two solo albums coming by the end of the year.

June 9:

QuoteMemoir a-go-go! My literary agent is starting to pitch to interested parties and I shall be writing an outline over the weekend to spur them on. Also in talks with a label to release a vinyl version of my unreleased CALIGARI score(s).

:-D
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 29, 2016, 07:10:32
Quote from: Ulrich on June 24, 2016, 11:29:45
Quote from: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:51:06
The Banshees version of that flamewar, it's Robert Smith vs John McGeoch.

Where does that happen? I've never visited a Banshees forum in my life (if there is one), maybe better that way.  ;)

There is no open Banshees forum that I'm aware of now.
The last one was closed, and that flamewar was one of the main reasons.
It went as far as to reach Severin's own website (which used to have a forum).

You can still see bits of that flamewar on the YouTube comments to certain Banshees albums or songs.

Quote from: Ulrich on June 24, 2016, 11:29:45
Quote from: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 10:51:06
That's obviously Blue Sunshine.

If you have that album, look at the leaflet.

I have it (vinyl bought in early 90's or so), no leaflet inside though.  :roll:

I'll try and find the leaflet and write here what can be read on it. It's in a drawer at the moment. Later though.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on June 29, 2016, 09:02:11
Quote from: piggymirror on June 29, 2016, 07:10:32
There is no open Banshees forum that I'm aware of now.
The last one was closed, and that flamewar was one of the main reasons.

You can still see bits of that flamewar on the YouTube comments to certain Banshees albums or songs.

No thanks, I can live happily without ever reading those! (I hardly read any yt comments anyway. I go there to watch videos, listen to songs...)

Quote from: piggymirror on June 29, 2016, 07:10:32
I'll try and find the leaflet and write here what can be read on it. It's in a drawer at the moment.

No hurry, maybe I can find it online. Later.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on July 02, 2016, 15:10:47
Quote from: piggymirror on June 29, 2016, 07:10:32
I'll try and find the leaflet ...

I found it online (or at least part of it).

(http://52.17.98.47/upload/items/3830-7-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on August 15, 2016, 21:47:45
Quote from: piggymirror on June 23, 2016, 11:38:07
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on February 11, 2016, 19:37:13
Need to listen to Hyeana; I guess I was always put off by a couple of disparaging remarks made by Robert about the strings etc.

I don't own the Ten Imaginary Years book (oficial Cure bio 1976-1986), but I seem to remember Reading about him not being very satisfied with the keyboards masking his guitar parts a bit too much.

Besides, he didn't get as much credit as he'd like, and that, for a second time, because he wrote or co-wrote at least one song from Kaleidoscope ('Hybrid', and correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember him claiming his involvement in 'Christine').

Here is the studio version of Hybrid (click here to listen) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wl-Iqs-mOA).
John McGeoch on guitar.

And here is the studio version of Christine. John McGeoch on guitar as well.
Christine really does sound a lot like a Cure song. Or maybe some Cure songs sound Banshee-like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtt_0OKzRek

I don't know wether Robert had a hand on Christine or not, but it definitely sounds Seventeen Seconds-ish.
Christine is officially a Severin song (Sioux did the B-side, the very gloomy Eve White/Eve Black).
Maybe Severin and Robert were listening to the same music at the time.
But I can clearly imagine Robert singing it.
McGeoch doesn't appear on the video because by then he wasn't a permanent member yet.

Btw, here is a 1982 version of Christine with Robert on guitar (click to listen) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqrPLWxH5sM).
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on August 16, 2016, 17:51:56
This is not exactly related to the time of Robert's tenure as a Banshee, but here are two more curious coincidences:

Hello I Love You, by Siouxsie solo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev_twM4V3-E



Witchcraft, by The Creatures (on a medley with The Vamp and Standing There):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njS_h8v_iQo

Title: Cure/Banshees/Creatures/Glove/Siouxsie combined discography.
Post by: piggymirror on August 18, 2016, 20:32:37
Here is a combined chronological discography of both bands and their parallel projects, counting all studio, remixes, and live albums, but not counting live videos (excepting Siouxsie's Dreamshow and The Cure's In Orange and Trilogy, which are counted given their exceptionality) or singles/greatest hits compilations (excepting The Cure's Japanese Whispers, which is counted as a studio album).

I've separated each band by a different color (The Cure in green, The Banshees in red, The Glove in blue, The Creatures in orange, Cult Hero in brown, Siouxsie in pink), albums go in capitals, Banshees recordings with Robert being credited as a player are marked thus (+), and Banshees recordings released under Robert's two tenures are underlined (regardless of Robert playing on the records or not).

Finally, later on I'll edit this post with the chart positions (if and when I find them).

-Hong Kong Garden (18 August 1978)
-THE SCREAM (13 November 1978)
-Killing An Arab (21 December 1978)
-The Staircase (Mystery) (23 March 1979)
-THREE IMAGINARY BOYS (8 May 1979)
-Boys Don't Cry (15 June 1979)
-Playground Twist (28 July 1979)
-JOIN HANDS (7 September 1979)
-Mittageisen (Metal Postcard)/Love In A Void (September 1979)
-Jumping Someone Else's Train (20 November 1979)
-Cult Hero (December 1979)
-Happy House (7 March 1980)
-A Forest (28 March 1980)
-SEVENTEEN SECONDS (22 April 1980)
-Christine (30 May 1980)
-KALEIDOSCOPE (1 August 1980)
-Israel (28 November 1980)
-Primary (20 march 1981)
-FAITH (14 April 1981)
-Spellbound (22 May 1981)
-JUJU (6 June 1981)
-Arabian Knights (24 July 1981)
-Wild Things EP (25 September 1981)
-Charlotte Sometimes (5 October 1981)
-PORNOGRAPHY (4 May 1982)
-Fireworks (21 May 1982)
-The Hanging Garden (12 July 1982)
-Slowdive (4 October 1982)
-A KISS IN THE DREAMHOUSE (5 November 1982)
-Let's Go To Bed (15 November 1982)
-Melt! (26 November 1982)
-Miss The Girl (15 April 1983)
-FEAST (15 May 1983)
-The Walk (27 June 1983)
-Right Now (8 July 1983)
-Like An Animal (9 August 1983)
-BLUE SUNSHINE (23 August 1983)
-Dear Prudence (23 September 1983, +)
-The Lovecats (18 October 1983)
-Punish Me With Kisses (18 November 1983)
-NOCTURNE (LIVE, 25 November 1983, +)
-JAPANESE WHISPERS (6 December 1983)
-Swimming Horses (16 March 1984, +)
-The Caterpillar (26 March 1984)
-THE TOP (30 April 1984)
-Dazzle (25 May 1984, +)
-HYAENA (8 June 1984, +)
-The Thorn EP (19 October 1984)
-CONCERT (LIVE, 22 October 1984)
-In Between Days (15 July 1985)
-THE HEAD ON THE DOOR (26 August 1985)
-Close To Me (9 September 1985)
-Cities In Dust (18 October 1985)
-Half An Octopus EP (8 December 1985)
-Candyman (28 February 1986)
-Boys Don't Cry (New Voice New Mix) (April 1986)
-TINDERBOX (21 April 1986)
-This Wheel's On Fire (5 January 1987)
-THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS (2 March 1987)
-The Passenger (16 March 1987)
-Why Can't I Be You? (6 April 1987)
-KISS ME KISS ME KISS ME (25 May 1987)
-Catch (22 June 1987)
-Song From The Edge Of The World (13 July 1987, +)
-IN ORANGE (LIVE, October 1987)
-Just Like Heaven (5 October 1987)
-Hot Hot Hot!!! (8 February 1988)
-Peek-A-Boo (18 July 1988)
-PEEPSHOW (5 September 1988)
-The Killing Jar (19 September 1988)
-The Last Beat Of My Heart (21 November 1988)
-Lullaby (10 April 1989)
-Fascination Street (18 April 1989)
-DISINTEGRATION (2 May 1989)
-Lovesong (21 August 1989)
-Standing There (10 October 1989)
-BOOMERANG (6 November 1989)
-Fury Eyes (19 February 1990)
-Pictures Of You (19 March 1990)
-Never Enough (17 September 1990)
-Close To Me (Closer Mix) (22 October 1990)
-MIXED UP (REMIXES, 20 November 1990)
-A Forest (Tree Mix) (6 December 1990)
-ENTREAT (LIVE, 25 March 1991)
-Kiss Them For Me (13 May 1991)
-SUPERSTITION (13 May 1991)
-Shadowtime (1 July 1991)
-Fear (Of The Unknown) (22 October 1991)
-High (16 March 1992)
-WISH (21 April 1992)
-Friday I'm In Love (11 May 1992)
-Face To Face (13 July 1992)
-A Letter To Elise (5 October 1992)
-SHOW (LIVE, 19 October 1993)
-PARIS (LIVE, 26 October 1993)
-O Baby (28 December 1994)
-THE RAPTURE (17 January 1995)
-Stargazer (6 February 1995)
-The 13th (22 April 1996)
-WILD MOOD SWINGS (7 May 1996)
-Mint Car (17 June 1996)
-Strange Attraction (8 October 1996)
-Gone! (2 December 1996)
-Eraser Cut EP (3 August 1998)
-2nd Floor (5 October 1998)
-ANIMA ANIMUS (15 February 1999)
-Say (15 March 1999)
-Prettiest Thing (6 September 1999)
-HYBRIDS (REMIXES, 2 November 1999)
-Out Of This World (January 2000)
-BLOODFLOWERS (15 February 2000)
-Maybe Someday (April 2000)
-US Retrace (9 May 2000)
-TRILOGY (LIVE, 3 June 2003)
-THE SEVEN YEAR ITCH (LIVE, June 2003)
-Godzilla! (13 October 2003)
-HAI! (20 October 2003)
-THE CURE (29 June 2004)
-The End Of The World (19 July 2004)
-Alt.End (12 October 2004)
-Taking Off (18 October 2004)
-DREAMSHOW (LIVE, 13 September 2005)
-Into A Swan (3 September 2007)
-MANTARAY (10 September 2007)
-Here Comes That Day (29 October 2007)
-About To Happen (10 March 2008)
-The Only One (13 May 2008)
-Freakshow (13 June 2008)
-Sleep When I'm Dead (13 July 2008)
-The Perfect Boy (13 August 2008)
-Hypnagogic States EP (13 September 2008)
-4:13 DREAM (28 October 2008)
-BESTIVAL LIVE 2011 (LIVE, 6 December 2011)
-Love Crime (4 December 2015)
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on October 24, 2017, 04:24:50
I had forgotten about it, but I'm re-reading Ten Imaginary Years, and in it, Robert says he was in the studio with the Banshees during the recording of "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse"... go figure, we'll probably never know, but some Dreamhouse songs have "Robert was here" written all over them (namely Cascade, Slowdive, Melt and particularly She's A Carnival).
But it's true that they have "Severin" and "McGeoch" all over them, too.

Although it's true that Cure and Banshees have very, very similar sounds at times.
It is obvious that Cocoon was an ancestor of Lovecats, that Slowdive owes more than just one bit to Primary, and that She's A Carnival is an ancestor of some of the classic Cure pop singles (but hey, Boys Don't Cry was there first).

Later on in the book, Robert says Budgie attended a Cure concert in 1986 and liked it... That's interesting.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on October 26, 2017, 11:48:59
Quote from: piggymirror on October 24, 2017, 04:24:50
I had forgotten about it, but I'm re-reading Ten Imaginary Years, and in it, Robert says he was in the studio with the Banshees during the recording of "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse"...

Yeah indeed, but I understood it as a way of "went to see the Banshees", thus it was a friend's visit to the studio to say "hi" and hang about for a while, maybe go for a drink... (i.e. no involvement in the actual recording session).
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on November 19, 2017, 06:18:42
Quote from: Ulrich on October 26, 2017, 11:48:59
Quote from: piggymirror on October 24, 2017, 04:24:50
I had forgotten about it, but I'm re-reading Ten Imaginary Years, and in it, Robert says he was in the studio with the Banshees during the recording of "A Kiss In The Dreamhouse"...

Yeah indeed, but I understood it as a way of "went to see the Banshees", thus it was a friend's visit to the studio to say "hi" and hang about for a while, maybe go for a drink... (i.e. no involvement in the actual recording session).

Credited.

Btw, Siouxsie (at least her) went to see The Cure at RAK during the recording of Pornography.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on November 30, 2017, 10:47:23
Nothing really new in the text, but lots of good photos and many videos linked (some of them I'd not seen before)!!

http://www.post-punk.com/siouxsie-sioux-and-robert-smith/

Title: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on January 02, 2019, 05:28:33
  :o :1f62e: :o Just look at this picture...



Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on January 02, 2019, 09:54:42
Quote from: piggymirror on January 02, 2019, 05:28:33
  :o :1f62e: :o Just look at this picture...

https://twitter.com/RosaReyesRomero/status/1073719031646093312

I can't see anything there...  :?
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: dsanchez on January 02, 2019, 13:19:18
Quote from: Ulrich on January 02, 2019, 09:54:42
I can't see anything there...  :?

just embeded the tweet on his post ;)
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on January 02, 2019, 15:08:52
Quote from: dsanchez on January 02, 2019, 13:19:18
just embeded the tweet on his post ;)

:smth023
Very good, now I can see it's a pic with Lol and Budgie (?) and ... (???)!
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: dsanchez on January 02, 2019, 15:13:27
Quote from: Ulrich on January 02, 2019, 15:08:52
Very good, now I can see it's a pic with Lol and Budgie (?) and ... (???)!

apparently the drummer of Bauhaus!
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on January 08, 2019, 06:03:59
Quote from: Ulrich on January 02, 2019, 15:08:52
Very good, now I can see it's a pic with Lol and Budgie (?) and ... (???)!

Left to right, Lol Tolhurst (The Cure), Budgie (Banshees), Kevin Haskins (Bauhaus/Tones On Tail/Love And Rockets).
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on January 31, 2019, 17:51:18
Talkin' of Budgie, he will be performing (at least on a few tracks) on the next album by German artist "Miss Kenichi":

(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51036523_10156740797214003_1081306030207401984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-ams3-1.xx&oh=ea0a6fce2b328839613c50723cdd9ef6&oe=5CBCDD52)

Apparently they had a session w/ 2 drummers. Plus Budgie will play some other instruments too.
Should be good, I have her most recent album (reminds a bit of Pj Harvey and such) and saw a concert.
http://www.misskenichi.com/
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on February 28, 2019, 04:28:16
There are these two intriguing tweets by someone who looks like Siouxsie.

https://twitter.com/BallionSusan/status/1066134135138222081

https://twitter.com/BallionSusan/status/1066218306149859328
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 28, 2019, 10:08:29
Does not sound too good...

QuoteAnd yes I have alot of issues and problems going right now so it is best for me to leave permanently.
Quote from: piggymirror on February 28, 2019, 04:28:16
https://twitter.com/BallionSusan/status/1066218306149859328
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on February 28, 2019, 16:18:15
Quote from: Ulrich on February 28, 2019, 10:08:29
Does not sound too good...

It's not cheerful.

However, we can't know which problems would these be.
And more importantly, we can't say wether that was actually Siouxsie or someone else pretending to be her.

It's true that we haven't heard from Siouxsie in quite a while now.
We know Severin was ill, but we don't know anything else.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 19, 2020, 09:57:22
Footage of a 1979 concert from Switzerland (?) has appeared on yt:


That must've been (shortly?) before Robert Smith (temporarily) and Budgie joined them.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on February 21, 2020, 16:54:40
Thanks for putting these posts up, gentlemen - Brett is enjoying them, being something of a fan of this band.  :cool

I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing, if I was given the choice between this stuff live or Kylie Minogue live or Whitney Houston live or things like that, I'd definitely prefer the Banshees option.  Brett was saying, "That's because they mean it, and those other people you mentioned don't give that impression."  Ms Houston probably does mean it too, but that almost makes it worse for me.  Apologies to any Kylie / Whitney devotees - I understand that tastes differ...
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 09:41:37
Quote from: SueC on February 21, 2020, 16:54:40I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing...

Their early (post-)punk stuff is pretty "raw", I suggest you try the "Nocturne" & "Hyaena" era (with Robert on guitar) and the later albums (e.g. "Rapture")! In style, they are a bit closer to the Cure.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23
Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 09:41:37
Quote from: SueC on February 21, 2020, 16:54:40I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing...

Their early (post-)punk stuff is pretty "raw", I suggest you try the "Nocturne" & "Hyaena" era (with Robert on guitar) and the later albums (e.g. "Rapture")! In style, they are a bit closer to the Cure.

I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.
The Rapture does sound a bit more Cure-like, that yes.
But then again, The Cure sounds a lot like the Banshees... not so much the other way around.

If Sue C's interested only in Robert's tenure, then yes, definitely Hyaena and Nocturne.
However... I can only heavily recommend Downside Up, the b-side compilation, containing some of the very finest Banshees songs, and including a 1987 Robert Smith "contribution"... on sitar (recorded in 1983/84, allegedly).

However, to get a light introduction, nothing like a compilation.
Once Upon A Time and Twice Upon a Time are the best.

As for albums... the lot. Their discography is as good as The Cure... at least.
But if you had to choose... The Scream, Juju, A Kiss In The Dreamhouse, and Tinderbox.
Those are the four I'd recommend.

I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.
Although it's the first album they released after Robert left... his spirit seems to linger on it, somehow.

Have a 1981 Banshee snack here (from the album Juju, and John McGeoch on guitar):


Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:45:34
Okay, three more snacks.

Night Shift from Nocturne (Robert on guitar). Originally from the 1981 album Juju as well.
To me, this particular one is the finest version of the song, ever. Robert gives it a very special edge here.
Others disagree, they say they like the McGeoch versions better. Not that they're bad at all, it's McGeoch. But not on this song to me. Robert OWNS it, I think.




Aaaaannd... Running Town, Bring Me The Head Of The Preacher Man, plus most of Blow The House Down, all three from Hyaena.
Robert on the infamous fishbone guitar. He played it with the Banshees only I believe.




Aaaaannd... a more complete 1984 version of Blow The House Down.
Robert on guitar again (not Carruthers, there are 1984 versions of this with Carruthers, though).
It really is a pity that the sound quality is not top, you hear Budgie too much (it's a bootleg...).
But Robert's guitar part in this song is his best ever, to me - Cure, Glove and Banshees combined.
I've always maintained that the best Robert on guitar was the 1984 one. Pity he doesn't go (as) crazy (as this) on guitar anymore.

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05
Thanks for these links, good ones for Sue to check out!  :smth023

Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.

Much more than the 1979 post-punk stuff, I'd say.
Remember, I tried to point this out from the view of Sue, who obviously knows the Cure much better than the Banshees.
To me, Peepshow does have a lot in common with KM KM KM (a colourful album with sound experiments). Superstition has some "Cureish" pop songs on it, I believe (haven't listened in a loong time).

Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.

I like it too, it's the first album I bought by them (back in 1986).
However I don't see any parallels to Disintegration at all, except that it's a good album with its own sound and mood.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 18:19:41
Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05
Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.

Much more than the 1979 post-punk stuff, I'd say.
Remember, I tried to point this out from the view of Sue, who obviously knows the Cure much better than the Banshees.

Yeah. No. Hmmm... Well.
In that case, I'd say Nocturne, Once Upon A Time, and Twice Upon A Time.
Hyaena, even if Robert's in it, and Swimming Horses sounds a lot like Six Different Ways... doesn't sound that much like The Cure.
You can hear how Robert's there, of course, but it is very much a Banshees album. Or maybe it's the production that makes it sound different, I don't know.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05To me, Peepshow does have a lot in common with KM KM KM (a colourful album with sound experiments).

I much prefer Kiss Me than Peepshow, although Kiss Me is more commercial.
Peepshow and Superstition, although both contain good songs, some of them great, are not my favourite Banshee ones.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05Superstition has some "Cureish" pop songs on it, I believe (haven't listened in a loong time).

Not really I think.
Of the two albums, there are two particular songs that may sound "Cure-ish".
Those are The Killing Jar (Peepshow) and Shadowtime (Superstition). The rest don't sound Cure-like, methinks.

But then again, there's the eternal discussion - what came first, the Cure sound, or the Banshee sound?
Some say "Banshees", because of Kaleidoscope. Christine really does sound like what The Cure became post-1983.
But even on songs like The Staircase (Mystery) you can see glimpses of it.

Others say "Cure", because of... Kaleidoscope, which came after Seventeen Seconds, and allegedly has an uncredited Robert contribution.
Word has it that it is Hybrid, which doesn't sound very Cure-like...

However, I can hear bits of The Scream and Join Hands on Seventeen Seconds.
Particularly on Play For Today. Different pedals, of course, but it's not very different from, say, Placebo Effect.
Although Play For Today is a more complicated guitar part, that's clear.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05
Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.

I like it too, it's the first album I bought by them (back in 1986).
However I don't see any parallels to Disintegration at all, except that it's a good album with its own sound and mood.

I didn't say "parallels". I said that for some reason, it reminds me of Disintegration.
I can't quite put the finger at one particular thing on Tinderbox, but it reminds me of Disintegration, yes.
Why is it? Go figure... ask my ears, not me...  :D
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 26, 2020, 10:00:32
Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 18:19:41But then again, there's the eternal discussion - what came first, the Cure sound, or the Banshee sound?

I don't see that discussion anywhere. It's well known that Robert liked the Banshees and certainly was pleased that The Cure did get the support slot on that 1979 tour. He even said he wanted a sound between the Buzzcocks and the Banshees (in the early years at least).

Of course the influences came and went from both sides over the years, which seems only "natural" seeing they played together, were friends etc.

Influences aside, both bands did carve out their own sound, which is good.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on February 26, 2020, 12:38:04
Thank you very much to both of you!  :smth023  I'll definitely check all this out when I come up for air, and let you know my impressions.  I have a historical appreciation for this stuff, in part because many bands were boys' clubs and the Banshees weren't.  Just none of that genre draws me, to be honest, whether or not Robert Smith is in it.  I also found I don't like a lot of the early Cure stuff either that I've heard - I've not heard all of it and am still to hear studio albums pre 1983, but I didn't really like the B-sides from that era - nothing on Disc 1 of Join The Dots really grabbed me (if anything, it was the opposite), though I liked the majority of the material on the three other discs.

Funny though, I've heard some of the same early stuff I didn't like the studio versions of back then done live in the last 20 years, and I've never had a negative reaction to those tracks played live.  In part it's that they play it better (so much more accomplished too after decades of practice) and that Robert Smith doesn't sing in a whiny voice anymore (because that was something I've always disliked).  Another part of it is that with live music, there's real people in the room, and that's different to listening to "anonymous" music coming out of the ether.  ;)

Back to The Banshees, Brett is going to enjoy watching that stuff with me.  Brett says he came to like the Banshees in 1992, because of a song they did for Batman Returns (with Danny Elfman), which he thought was interesting and different.  He then heard (and recorded) a Live At The Wireless on Triple J which featured The Banshees, and enjoyed a lot of the songs.  And since he's on holidays as of this afternoon, we're going to spend time going through this stuff over the next couple of days, so thanks again.  :cool
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on February 27, 2020, 01:07:10
OK, I'm going to do a little feedback as we go along!

We've listened to the first two clips @piggymirror posted, and do you know, I actually like them!  At this stage, not enough that I'd go buy an album, because I have such a queue of albums by people I really like already that I'm trying to get around to.  But I enjoyed both of those, and would certainly go see this live if I had a TARDIS and could travel back in time, and will certainly listen to those again when I have to do boring stuff on the desktop computer (which is, thank goodness, connected to good speakers - the bass speakers underneath make the whole desk vibrate :cool).

I like the space in the music - it's not overcrowded - and that it has a sense of atmosphere.  I like the way the singer is using her voice.  Her stage mannerisms make me want to go read up her background, because combined with the music I am at the moment imagining her as a middle-class daughter telling her connections to eff off, but of course, this could simply be me projecting.  ;)

I am at this stage not getting enough of the lyrics to know what the songs are about, and purely responding to the music.  By the way, the drummer is excellent.

I'm trying to put myself back in time.  It was a little early for me in real time, but if these two tracks had appeared in the mid/late 80s in juxtaposition with Kylie Minogue and Bananarama, I could have become a big fan just because of that.  It's just worlds apart from that bilge.  And I think this is how we start to really like music, not in isolation but in the context of popular culture at the time, and after going, "OMG, what is this?" to other stuff and then finding something that speaks to us better.

So I loathed the plastic candy-pop of my teenage years, and was drawn to alternative music and real musicianship and atmosphere and intelligence and people who actually had useful things to say.  Had I been an uncomplicated person from an uncomplicated background, who knows, I might have jumped up and down to candy-pop and not thought too hard.

One of the criticisms I had of Siouxsie and The Banshees, when I heard it on occasions when Brett happened to be playing some, is that it seems cold to me, and it kind of does, and I enjoy warmth in music, in general, or at least not getting the feeling I have been parked in a refrigerator.  Brett actually says this is a fair point because even those two songs we've just listened to have this Arctic quality to them.  There is of course a difference between music coming anonymously from a speaker, and seeing it more in context, and coming from actual people.

We have to do other stuff now, but thanks again to both of you and we'll get back to it later! :)

PS: Brett says he has Downside Up, and really enjoys it!
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on February 27, 2020, 02:39:05
OK, we continued, and the four other live tracks next-up didn't appeal to me that much on first listen (but I'll give it another go on the desktop on decent sound later) - they were too "howly" for me, which made me want to go stick my head under a pillow.  Brett said, "Yeah, these don't do that much for me either, sometimes The Banshees are just interminably jangly. By the way, I think The Cure are like a grand piano, and The Banshees are like a harpsichord."

Bwahaha, and that reminds me of a joke:  What's the difference between a harpsichord and a trampoline?  ...you take your shoes off to jump on a trampoline. :lol:   Of course, I loooove the harpsichord on Golden Brown - a fabulous counterpoint - and in some classical music, though by no means all or most of it because it can get really headachy and annoying.

Back to The Banshees, Brett fished around for this track because it's one of his favourites:


...and I do like that better than the last four (but I liked the first two).  He also says he really likes Israel live, I Could Be Again, Face To Face, The Last Beat Of My Heart, Cities In Dust, Metal Postcard, Sin In My Heart, the Nocturne version of Night Shift (which was in the selection earlier), and a few others.  Like with The Cure, he went for live albums, best-ofs and B-sides before anything else.  He tends to do that because it gives him a good cross-section of a band, before getting into studio albums.  Also he says he tends to like live recordings better than studio anyway.

A quick note on representation:  In some of those earlier clips, Siouxsie gives off art student vibes.  :cool In the clip above, she's in a short skirt and what we call "FM boots" in Australia, and she's bending over, which kind of makes it look like the cover of a boy magazine (maybe a goth-boy magazine?) and was never a style I personally aspired to, but there we are, everyone's different. ;)

And a little observation on audiences:  It's struck me before on some of the live clips of the 80s posted on this forum that the audience often has members with far more extreme hair than the bands!  In the Night Shift clip there's one person whose head looks like the spiky fruiting bodies off a tree:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seenobjects.org%2Fimages%2Fmediumlarge%2F2005-08-23-winter-fruit-plane-tree-seed-pod.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

And there was at least one porcupine in the audience too.  It's fascinating! :)  Live clips in general have so much in common with Attenborough.  You can look at all the wildlife in their natural habitat, and often you're going, "Oh, that so cute! Look at that!" :heart-eyes

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on February 27, 2020, 13:09:40
Quote from: SueC on February 27, 2020, 01:07:10We've listened to the first two clips @piggymirror posted, and do you know, I actually like them!

See, I knew you would like at least some of the stuff they made with Robert in the band!  :cool
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on April 03, 2020, 02:21:06

A question for any guitar enthusiasts out there.  Why is RS playing in the opposite position to the standard one on the fingerboard - top-down, rather than wrapping the hand around bottom-up?  I've actually never seen that before, and anyway, I reference everything back to violin, so maybe this is a guitar option?

Kinda reminded me of this clip:


...although Mozart was being a clever-pants, and I think what I'm querying has a different reason.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on April 03, 2020, 04:04:18
Quote from: SueC on April 03, 2020, 02:21:06

A question for any guitar enthusiasts out there.  Why is RS playing in the opposite position to the standard one on the fingerboard - top-down, rather than wrapping the hand around bottom-up?  I've actually never seen that before, and anyway, I reference everything back to violin, so maybe this is a guitar option?

I have seen that before. I think it was Jimmy Page.

What I don't know is if the Banshees are mimicking, I'd say yes, which could explain.
Robert's very obvious when he's lip-syncing, but this time he's not singing, so...
However, the video for Slowdive shows him toying with a violin, so...
And then there's Primary, Lullaby, and other videos...
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 03, 2020, 12:20:19
Quote from: piggymirror on April 03, 2020, 04:04:18Robert's very obvious when he's lip-syncing, but this time he's not singing, so...
However, the video for Slowdive shows him toying with a violin, so...

Such a cute clip!



If I had to guess, I'd say he refused to hold the guitar in that one cause he didn't play on the recorded track. Or simply because the idea of him with a violin is funnier...
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 03, 2020, 12:32:51
On the subject of the Banshees, never understood how this song WASN'T a worldwide smash hit


Though it even isn't my favorite track from the McKay/Morris era, that would have to be Metal Postcard

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on April 03, 2020, 13:25:22
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on April 03, 2020, 12:20:19Such a cute clip!


If I had to guess, I'd say he refused to hold the guitar in that one cause he didn't play on the recorded track. Or simply because the idea of him with a violin is funnier...

Are they all miming?  There's violin in the background, and I was trying to figure out from the way RS was doing his miming whether he'd ever had basic lessons on the thing.  You can usually tell by what people do with their right arm when they play "air violin" - people who have never been taught how to hold a bow properly will just ad-lib, while people who do know how to hold a bow will automatically touch their ring finger with their thumb and wrap the rest of their fingers loosely around the phantom bow.  Unfortunately this video is too blurry for me to see that detail...

OMG, neither of us miss all that bloody miming that went on, on a lot of popular music shows in the 80s when bands were supposedly playing live... stupid bloody policy... :evil:
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on April 03, 2020, 15:23:37
Quote from: piggymirror on April 03, 2020, 04:04:18However, the video for Slowdive shows him toying with a violin, so...

On the videoclip for Slowdive, the guitarist is John McGeoch, not Robert.

However, Robert does appear on the (I think) official videoclip for Il Est Né Le Divin Enfant, as the band never recorded a videoclip for Melt!, although there are several live appearances of that song.

Btw, A Kiss In The Dreamhouse is definitely one of my top favourite albums of the Banshees.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 03, 2020, 18:02:52
Quote from: piggymirror on April 03, 2020, 15:23:37Robert does appear on the (I think) official videoclip for Il Est Né Le Divin Enfant

I love this one so much.


They look like a goth marching band from the special school, which is to say adorable. Sioux sings phonetically, Severin tries to look cool while pretending to play a trumpet, Robert looks like banging the cymbals might be too tall an ask from someone with/in his condition.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 04, 2020, 14:35:20
Generally speaking, I think it's difficult to overestimate the impact being in the Banshees had on Robert. He broadened his songwriting palette, became a more confident live performer and a more interesting artist. A song like The Hanging Garden, one of his finest, sees him try to replicate Budgie's virtuosity with the aid of a drum machine; by this point it was clear that Lol's days as a drummer were numbered, as he could no longer satisfy Robert's musical ambitions.

Robert was best friends with Severin for a couple of years around the time of The Glove; and it was pretty much inevitable that he would get introduced to a great deal of avant-garde art, from French surrealism to German expressionist cinema to American minimalist composers, because that's what Severin was into.

The Banshees were way ahead of the curve in integrating elements of psychedelia into the postpunk musical landscape. While Robert grew up listening to Hendrix and Beefheart and the early Pink Floyd, I doubt something like as Give Me It or Snakepit would've been possible without them leading the way. If one is interested in Robert at his most experimental and creative, I would recommend to immerse oneself in the early Banshees (The Scream to A Kiss in the Dreamhouse), because that's the juices he was cooking in.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on April 09, 2020, 17:16:48
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on April 04, 2020, 14:35:20A song like The Hanging Garden, one of his finest, sees him try to replicate Budgie's virtuosity with the aid of a drum machine; by this point it was clear that Lol's days as a drummer were numbered, as he could no longer satisfy Robert's musical ambitions.

Is there any proof to his rather unpleasant rumour? According to Lol's memoir, he played all the drums on this album. (Later, both he and RS spoke about him moving to the keys.)

Not the best sound, but you can see/hear it's Lol who drums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ANXID6q6EQ
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 09, 2020, 17:26:29
Quote from: Ulrich on April 09, 2020, 17:16:48Is there any proof to his rather unpleasant rumour?

I'm 99% sure I've read it in one of Robert's interviews. They clearly did something with the drums there, it sounds very different from Lol's usual tippy-tappy stylings, including in this anemic, underwhelming live performance...
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on April 09, 2020, 18:27:08
Well, the sound is thin on that video (recorded around the time the album was finished), but it proves that Lol can handle the beat(s).

Of course, in a recording studio, they were able to experiment with drum sounds.
In his book, Lol describes the process:
Quote"The drum sound was obtained by putting the kit in the large recording room and removing all the acoustic shields, so there was an immense natural reverb."
(Read the book, everyone, if you haven't already.)
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 09, 2020, 19:07:30
QuoteWell, the sound is thin on that video (recorded around the time the album was finished), but it proves that Lol can handle the beat(s).

Yep, so it would appear (it was the following single that finally proved too much). I'll try to find that Robert interview. Anyway, my main point was that in the studio version of the song the inspiration for the drum sound was Budgie.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on April 10, 2020, 10:20:20
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on April 09, 2020, 19:07:30... in the studio version of the song the inspiration for the drum sound was Budgie.

Yeah, that does indeed sound logical...
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 29, 2020, 21:18:40
In a way, I understand the loathing for Robert in quarters of the SATB fandom: his two brief tenures in the band bookended their once-in-a-lifetime purple patch of Kaleidoscope, Juju and A Kiss in the Dreamhouse. The day when McGeoch was gone and Robert was recruited really marked the beginning of the end of their golden age, except obviously none of that was Robert's fault. The real culprit was Father Time, the unfortunate fact that nothing lasts forever.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on April 30, 2020, 08:12:00
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on April 29, 2020, 21:18:40In a way, I understand the loathing for Robert in quarters of the SATB fandom: his two brief tenures in the band bookended their once-in-a-lifetime purple patch of Kaleidoscope, Juju and A Kiss in the Dreamhouse. The day when McGeoch was gone and Robert was recruited really marked the beginning of the end of their golden age, except obviously none of that was Robert's fault. The real culprit was Father Time, the unfortunate fact that nothing lasts forever.

Okay. Now you go tell the pro-Boris Williams brigade, hahahaaaa (it's the same story).

My personal Banshees favourite album tends to be Tinderbox. If I had to choose one, that is.
I wouldn't be able to put my finger on what exactly it is, but that record's got something that's amazing.
Actually there are many Banshees fans who call it their favourite, and I can see why.
 
I've always liked to compare it to Disintegration. I don't know why, but I get that feeling.
Not from the lyrics, but from the music.
 
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 30, 2020, 10:25:28
Quote from: piggymirror on April 30, 2020, 08:12:00Okay. Now you go tell the pro-Boris Williams brigade, hahahaaaa (it's the same story).

Once The Cure does a post-Boris Williams album anywhere near as good as Tinderbox, I shall seriously consider this.

The main difference is that when Banshees lost McGeoch, they were at the very peak of their powers. A post-Disintegration Cure was a band struggling for relevance and inspiration, however many album copies they shifted. Boris's departure only precipitated a horrific slide into self-parody the roots of which were in full evidence on Wish.

Personally I'm part of the pro-Boris Williams brigade only in the sense that I feel there's no point in carrying on with someone like Jason, and Robert should belatedly do what a self-aware and self-critical band like the Banshees did in the mid 90s.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on April 30, 2020, 11:29:59
This is the topic about Siouxsie & the Banshees (with an emphasis on Robert's stint with them). Please remain "on topic" here.
While it's okay to mention The Cure as a sidestep, the discussion should not shift towards specific albums, Jason C. and all that!
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on April 30, 2020, 17:52:02
Alright.

I'll post what I feel are some of the greatest Banshees tracks that naturally get overlooked in favor of the bigger singles, like HKG, Christine, Spellbound, Peekaboo etc

From the first McGeoch record. The early Roxy-like sax, McGeoch's guitar, the detached vocals... a piece of magic.   

 


Again, a stunning piece of synergy from a newly (re)formed band. Easily my favorite song about female orgasm.




The centerpiece of their psychedelic masterwork, A Kiss in The Dreamhouse


Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 17:42:22
Quote from: piggymirror on April 30, 2020, 08:12:00My personal Banshees favourite album tends to be Tinderbox.

I like it too. First one I bought (back in 1986).

Saw them live in '95 with the "Rapture" album (which I also liked)! :cool
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on May 02, 2020, 18:47:47
Quote from: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 17:42:22
Quote from: piggymirror on April 30, 2020, 08:12:00My personal Banshees favourite album tends to be Tinderbox.

I like it too.

It reminds me of a glass of good red wine at a table by the sea, in early autumn.

Quote from: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 17:42:22First one I bought (back in 1986).

My first one was The Scream. I was aware of it being their first, and before that I had watched a live film "about punk" (with other bands - Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, etc), with Metal Postcard and Make Up To Break Up, but even then, I was amazed at how good the album is. Jigsaw Feeling and Switch blew me away. Also Hong Kong Garden, which was on the album I bought (it had a different running order too, it started with Hong Kong Garden, and Pure was the first song on the B side).

Quote from: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 17:42:22Saw them live in '95 with the "Rapture" album (which I also liked)! :cool

Ouch! I missed them! I realised too late they were coming.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on May 02, 2020, 19:03:38
This is such a great song


Overall I feel that from today's perspective Tinderbox sounds like a slightly more conventional rock album than either of the first five records, but doesn't mean it's not great.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on May 03, 2020, 23:59:34
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on May 02, 2020, 19:03:38This is such a great song

Yep.

I like it all though, to me it's one of those albums that you listen to from start to end, no track skipping.

Perhaps one of the things that make me compare it to Disintegration is that the best tracks of it, to me are the non-single tracks (Sweetest Chill, This Unrest, 92º, Lands End...). Cities In Dust and Candyman feel a bit like the odd songs, like The Cure's Lullaby, Lovesong or Fascination Street.

Interestingly, the first Tinderbox I owned was a burned cassette of a burned cassette version, which included An Execution, The Quarterdrawing Of The Dog, Lullaby and Umbrella. That made Tinderbox even more magic.

To the point that I miss those four songs from any Tinderbox normal version, particularly Lullaby and Umbrella.   
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 16, 2020, 06:59:42
Quote from: SueC on June 15, 2020, 05:40:44Siouxsie covered this, @piggymirror?  It'd be great if you popped your favourite clip of that on the Banshees thread - should be really interesting.  :cool

That was a tough suggestion.
Beacuse on one hand I prefer the official versions, like this.




But on the other hand, there's this fan-made version, with the (very gloomy) lyrics.
Which are sadly very much present-day stuff.

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 16, 2020, 07:05:20
But one does not simply listen to one Through The Looking Glass song.
One listens to the whole album.

And in it, there's this, with (to me, and I'm not alone) Siouxsie's most wonderful vocals ever.
She sounds like a hybrid between Kaa, Marlene Dietrich, and herself.

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 16, 2020, 07:12:07
Aaand...
I adore Martin McCarrick's part here. Outstanding.
I was blown away the first time I listened to it.

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: SueC on June 16, 2020, 07:29:51
Thank you for that, @piggymirror!  :)  I am currently growing my tapeworm (http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=9295.msg773083#msg773083), but will be able to give it my full attention when I've finished the current segment.  ;)

...OK - that take on Strange Fruit actually really works!  It's interesting to see what they did to the original material.

I've listened a couple of times now and can't tell you which version I prefer - Billie Holiday's or Siouxsie's.  They're both excellent in different ways.  I like that the versions don't compete with each other - they're both very distinct, and special in their own ways.  I like the pared-down quality of the original, but I also like the string arrangements on Siouxsie's.  Brett (Banshees fan) says he prefers the singing on Siouxsie's and the trumpet on Billie Holiday's.  I agree about the trumpet - not that it's bad on the later version, but it's sublime on the original.  I like both voices and can't tell you which I prefer.  I love how Billie Holiday almost seems to play her voice like an instrument, and the resonance with which Siouxsie sings this.  I'm not always a fan of her singing, she often sounds cold to me, and I don't like cold, but she's lovely on this...

And I can see why you like the vocal on Trust In Me.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: piggymirror on June 16, 2020, 17:40:25
Oh and of course (remembering Florian Schneider).

Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on June 19, 2020, 10:28:35
Quote from: piggymirror on June 16, 2020, 07:05:20And in it, there's this, with (to me, and I'm not alone) Siouxsie's most wonderful vocals ever.
She sounds like a hybrid between Kaa, Marlene Dietrich, and herself.

Do you happen to know more about the original song? I always liked this one, but back in the 1980s without internet I was unable to find out who sang the original... (the name of the person who wrote it didn't help me much, no).
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on May 06, 2022, 09:54:25
An article about John McGeoch (guitarist, he was the one RS "replaced" when he joined the Banshees back in late 1982):

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/may/04/post-punk-guitarist-john-mcgeoch-magazine-siouxsie-sioux

QuoteMcGeoch sent a jolt through the scene with Magazine, Siouxsie Sioux and more. Johnny Marr, James Dean Bradfield and others salute an overlooked musician

there was another band who wanted him: Siouxsie and the Banshees. They had just lost their guitarist and drummer and while still with Magazine he was invited to play on Happy House, immediately making an impact with a shimmering guitar line that snakes through the song. He was eventually convinced to make the switch permanent in 1980.

The albums Kaleidoscope, Juju and A Kiss in the Dreamhouse marked a hugely fertile period for the Banshees with McGeoch-powered tracks such as Spellbound invoking "pure invention, grace and bloodlust ballet" according to Bradfield. Marr adds: "The music he made with the Banshees ... the word imperial was made for that music."
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on December 17, 2022, 10:50:12
Siouxsie announced a rare live performance:

QuoteSiouxsie Sioux of Siouxsie and the Banshees will return to the stage in 2023. Her first show since a 2013 Meltdown performance is set to take place at Latitude Festival in the East of England on July 23. Pulp, Paolo Nutini, and George Ezra are headlining the festival, which begins on July 20.
https://pitchfork.com/news/siouxsie-sioux-announces-return-to-stage-after-10-years/
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on September 12, 2023, 11:41:34

Hard to believe, this is 40 years old now! Robert's first studio recording (& official video) as a Banshee.
Title: Re: Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)
Post by: Ulrich on March 15, 2024, 09:34:34