music vs. lyrics - balanced/unbalanced combinations?

Started by japanesebaby, June 30, 2008, 19:51:08

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revolt

Quote from: KingOfSomeIsland on July 07, 2008, 06:32:20
Quote from: firecrasher on July 04, 2008, 21:39:12
I love the fact that you can hear the sugar packet being crumpled up and thrown out after the last "soooo whaaaaaat?"  :-D


PLEASE SEND ME ICING AND DECORATING SETS :D

There goes the Robert-is-so-good-at-improvising myth...  :-D

japanesebaby

back to on-topic:

Quote from: mahood on July 02, 2008, 02:03:29
yes, but still, there is something that you won't find in, say, the only one : the lyrics (as simple as they may sound) don't quite fit the music : this is what the cure does best, and actually, when thinking about unbalanced combinations, i realised how many there where, but in a perfect way. just like heaven wouldn't be like this if the lines said only "so so so happy, the sun is so shiny".
this is why i never liked friday i'm in love, mint car, and so on. perfect combinations maybe, boring ones certainly, and definitely not the best singles.

i was thinking of another example of a strange combination : closedown. musically, it's close to sort of a twisted ballad, but still a ballad. it took me years to accept how you could sing such words on this, and now i cannot think of this song being different. this combination is amazing.

a very good point - i think mahood really hits the nail in the head here. :!:
what often makes the cure songs to rise above the rest is of course first their pure musical values/strenght but secondly it's the tingling contradiction that the music & the lyrics combine. and that's not the same as having (accidentally) unbalanced combinations.

i totally agree about 'inbetween days' and 'just like heaven' being superior to somehting like 'friday...', 'the only one' in this respect.
'inbetween days' is not unbalanced - it would be actually much more ordinary if it had some "typical" happy lyrics.

one reason why i actually like simply reading through the cure lyrics sometimes (without listening to the music) is because it allows you to see this even more clearly. just try it out: read the lyrics to 'inbetween days' and really try to forget how the music is like. then imagine what sort of musical imagery the lyrics like:
yesterday i got so old i felt like i could DIE

would inspire in you? and just dwell in that for a while... and then go back and re-add the music...
(or, why not do it the other way round and try to listen to the song without paying any attention to the lyrics.)
in any case, i think one is bound to find that the effect that this combination creates is really something unique. it's something very clever and very well thought of, something that really enhances the power of these songs.

(but still, i don't take back what i said about 'all cats...'. ;) in that case i always thought it really didn't work quite as well. just my opinion, though).

even 'lovesong' is an example of this: just read the
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

revolt

Quote from: japanesebaby on July 10, 2008, 15:56:30

just try it out: read the lyrics to 'inbetween days' and really try to forget how the music is like. then imagine what sort of musical imagery the lyrics like:
yesterday i got so old i felt like i could DIE

would inspire in you? and just dwell in that for a while... and then go back and re-add the music...
(or, why not do it the other way round and try to listen to the song without paying any attention to the lyrics.)
in any case, i think one is bound to find that the effect that this combination creates is really something unique. it's something very clever and very well thought of, something that really enhances the power of these songs.



I think I get your point, but the fact is that the line "yesterday i got so old i felt like i could die" is immediately followed by "yesterday I got so old it made me want to cry"... See? Lazy rhyming! And right after that:

Go on go on
Just walk away
Your choice is made
Go on go on
And disappear
Go on go on
Away from here


I think that if you're reading these lyrics without knowing the music you probably get the feeling that this is not a "serious" song, because not much thought has gone into writing such words. Yeah, there is a curious contrast between the "down" lyrics and the uplifting music, but at the end of the day it is all just pop nonsense... (  :-D )

japanesebaby

Quote from: revolt on July 10, 2008, 16:14:22
I think I get your point, but the fact is that the line "yesterday i got so old i felt like i could die" is immediately followed by "yesterday I got so old it made me want to cry"... See? Lazy rhyming! And right after that:

Go on go on
Just walk away
Your choice is made
Go on go on
And disappear
Go on go on
Away from here


I think that if you're reading these lyrics without knowing the music you probably get the feeling that this is not a "serious" song, because not much thought has gone into writing such words. Yeah, there is a curious contrast between the "down" lyrics and the uplifting music, but at the end of the day it is all just pop nonsense... (  :-D )

well, i have to disagree. i think what you call "lazy rhyming" is actually something very conscious - it's consciously slightly dumb, slightly awkward - which again enhances the impression by adding a thirdt dimension: uplifting music, desperate lyrics but written desperate in a hopelessly simple way, without being at all profound about it. the certain kind of dumbness with simple rhyimes gives you a strong impression of the "main character" (if one wants to use such an movie-oriented term in a pop song).
because think of it this way: just when did robert stumble and somehow accidentally made a whole album full of dumb silly rhymes? he never did. so when he writes something i think he writes stuff very consciously.
imo everything on 'nbetween days' fits perfectly - still that's not the same as saying it's my all-time favorite song. it's not. but that's a completely different thing to discuss.


what comes to it all being "just pop nonsense"? well, of course it is. all pop music qualifies for that, at the end of the day, if one just chooses to take that approach...

but even then, i challenge it that one could seriously say 'inbetween days' is pop nonsense the very same way that something like britney spears is pop nonsense - there's the world of difference there, anyway.)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

revolt

Quote from: japanesebaby on July 10, 2008, 16:31:36
Quote from: revolt on July 10, 2008, 16:14:22
I think I get your point, but the fact is that the line "yesterday i got so old i felt like i could die" is immediately followed by "yesterday I got so old it made me want to cry"... See? Lazy rhyming! And right after that:

Go on go on
Just walk away
Your choice is made
Go on go on
And disappear
Go on go on
Away from here


I think that if you're reading these lyrics without knowing the music you probably get the feeling that this is not a "serious" song, because not much thought has gone into writing such words. Yeah, there is a curious contrast between the "down" lyrics and the uplifting music, but at the end of the day it is all just pop nonsense... (  :-D )

well, i have to disagree. i think what you call "lazy rhyming" is actually something very conscious - it's consciously slightly dumb, slightly awkward - which again enhances the impression by adding a thirdt dimension: uplifting music, desperate lyrics but written desperate in a hopelessly simple way, without being at all profound about it. the certain kind of dumbness with simple rhyimes gives you a strong impression of the "main character" (if one wants to use such an movie-oriented term in a pop song).
because think of it this way: just when did robert stumble and somehow accidentally made a whole album full of dumb silly rhymes? he never did. so when he writes something i think he writes stuff very consciously.


I agree that it is all very conscious. I have always thought that the whole "Head on the Door" album is a very conscious attempt at reaching the music charts... The overall polished production, the pop choruses, the "dumbed down" lyrics... It´s not an accident, Robert really wanted success at that time and went all the way for it.