Disintegration 3CD Deluxe Edition (2010)

Started by Janko, October 08, 2009, 19:00:07

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cure89

You are absolutely right. Okay, I think the remaster of the album itself is okay (I just listened to it one time ...) but "Entreat Plus" is disappointing. About the second disc: Some tracks are alright but the "Guide Vocal" tracks and especially "Out Of Mind" ... me and some others here do have doubts about the recording year of the vocals. In the case of "Out Of Mind" it's definitely a resung from 2009. But there's already a posting here about that:

http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,5907.msg69625.html#new

japanesebaby

Quote from: Whiskers on May 28, 2010, 05:16:43
Am I the only one disappointed with this "remaster?" Sure, the second disc is great, but Disintegration has just been turned up a shit-ton. I swear I can even hear some clipping during the guitar solo of Love Song. Entreat Plus has also had the same treatment given: it sounds much tighter and not as open as the original.

no, you're not the only one. then again, i have to say i am maybe not really disappointed because i was never expecting the remaster to be anything great. the original album sounds simply perfect - what's the point of starting to remaster that? especially when we live in the time when remastering always means "also boosting up the volume to make it sound worse".
well i have to say it's not volumeboosted as much as some other albums so it's not entirely terrible (although the cymbals are clipping and distorted sometimes). it's the overall mix that is worse than in the original.

btw the stupid thing is that in the album notes they've even kept the line: THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP.
hey sorry robert but that only applies to the original mix, not this new one! :!:


i was only really looking forward to the deluxe release because of the bonus disc. but now it turns out it's not entirely material form the disintegration era - like cure89 said above, see the link above.
i feel a bit cheated...  :?



Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

Hmmmm... I guess I'm just not nearly as disappointed as some of you. First, I really haven't heard any real flaws with the first disc of the original album. I even loaded the song Disintegration from both the remastered and original in Adobe Audition's multitrack, lowered the volume of the remaster to match the original, and toggled back and forth between them to hear the exact difference.

The most noticeable difference, which I had noticed before, is that the remaster has quite a bit more bass than the original. The kick drum especially has a lot more punch and impact to it, which is a plus to me. Other than that, the treble is a bit "smoother" in some areas, but it's not really a dramatic difference. Aside from that, no huge differences. On a crappy stereo system, I doubt one would hear much difference at all except that the remaster is louder.

As for the whole loudness thing, what I was most surprised by is that difference in dynamic range between the remaster and original is quite negligible. Although the original's volume is a bit "low", it really doesn't have much dynamic range for an album of its time (the waveform is rather flat, if you take a look at it). So even if the remaster is pushed a bit, volume-wise, it's honestly not that much different once the levels are matched.

I haven't heard any clipping yet, although I will admit I haven't listened to the whole first disc from beginning to end (I've listened to the new stuff more than anything). As for clipping on the guitar solo of Lovesong, I just don't hear it. I'm listening to this on a pretty nice system, and I usually notice stuff like this.

Onto the second disc... While it's a bit silly that Robert added a new vocal to at least one of the tracks, I'm not going to let this detract from my enjoyment of everything as a whole. After all, this is the most truly enjoyable "new" Cure stuff that I've heard during one setting in YEARS, and it's not often that I can get the feeling of re-discovering the Cure anymore (which is kind of priceless in terms of being a fan). Toss in the "alternative rarities" released on the official site, and well, it's really an insane amount of stuff that I'd never heard before (and that I genuinely like). And again, I'm just glad that Robert didn't decide to sing over most of the other stuff, like the alternate Babble version, which totally rocks in my opinion. Go Simon!  :rocker

We also get to hear some shades of the Wish sound that was soon to come (Esten and 2 Late alternatve version), and this leads me to believe that the Wish remaster will have some great stuff too, even if it's not released until 2016 or so.  :lol:

Also, there is virtually no volume compression at all on the rarities stuff.  :!:  Almost makes me wonder if a different person was working on this portion of the release...

As for disc three, the expanded Entreat, this is where I have the most issues. First, Boris' classic "thunder drums" from the original have become rather wimpy-sounding, much like Jason's drum sound. It just reaffirms my belief that Robert 1) hates Boris or 2) really knows nothing about drums and just got really lucky when hiring Boris in the first place. Other than that, the mixes are decent, even though Porl isn't nearly as loud (which is much more realistic in terms of the way the shows actually sounded). I just miss hearing his playing on the beginning of Disintegration so clearly, with all those wild harmonics and stuff.

Speaking of that song, it's interesting to note how they still mixed Robert's Bass VI intro from the first night in Wembley with the actual song from the second night, although the transition between these two parts is a bit smoother and more believable this time around.  :oops:

Assuming the original 8 Entreat songs were the only ones mixed back in 1989/1990, I'm sure that everything had to be remixed to give it a consistent sound — but maybe Robert wasn't the best person to pick for that. At least the Bass VI still sounds good and isn't buried in the mix like it was in Trilogy. I was kind of convinced Robert would ruin that somehow. The vocals here are completely original too, and I applaud him for not trying to do any overdubs or other digital manipulation, as there are some obvious rough spots that were left alone.

But my other main complaint about the new Entreat is the volume compression, which is more extreme than on any other disc of the release. However, it's still not as extreme as most stuff released these days, so it's at least listenable. Also, just like the remastered album, the bass here has more punch. Then again, the original Entreat has a fair amount of that, so here the original really wins hands-down.

For the record, I think that Dallas '89 on the "alternative rarities" sounds better than the remastered Entreat, but that could change by the time it gets an official release of some kind.  :?

Really though, I'm pretty happy about the "deluxe" Disintegration as a whole. Not sure I'll feel ever this way if and when The Cure release another studio album...


cure89

That's really a fine review. Thank you lostflower4!!!

Matti

Thanks Caley, it's nice to have at least some positive remarks on the set - nice contrast to the general "They've / he's f**ked up yet another release..." bitching attitude I sense.
and we close our eyes to sleep
to dream a boy and girl
who dream the world is nothing but a dream

Trust...

Quote from: alwaysprayingforRAIN on May 21, 2010, 17:46:42
Quote from: Ulrich on May 21, 2010, 11:11:19
Quote from: Trust... on May 18, 2010, 20:43:34
Order it by post and find it in my mail or just go to a shop to see if they have it  ;) Yeah I know silly me  ;)

Nah, it's okay to support local stores (especially if they sell CURE things)...
Well I ordered from amazon.de anyway and it arrived today.  :D
Now I just have to find time to listen to 3 CDs (plus the rarities on the net and the Dave allen interview etc. - you get the picture...)!  :roll:

i wish my store would sell cure stuff, but i guess my town is too small and conservative for that....

mine arrived too and i looooooooove it!!! i'll just make time to listen to it, and we have 'Pfingsten' as well :D


I wish I could find the time to go to the store just around the corner  :roll:
Vanilla smile and a gorgeous strawberry kiss x

japanesebaby

nice review.  :smth023

Quote from: lostflower4 on May 28, 2010, 12:24:13Although the original's volume is a bit "low", it really doesn't have much dynamic range for an album of its time (the waveform is rather flat, if you take a look at it). So even if the remaster is pushed a bit, volume-wise, it's honestly not that much different once the levels are matched.

that's true. still, i would rather take a version without volume-boosting so that i could take the original hint and TURN IT UP. ;)

Quote from: lostflower4 on May 28, 2010, 12:24:13I'm listening to this on a pretty nice system

i know you are ;) so i take your word for it.


Quote from: lostflower4 on May 28, 2010, 12:24:13We also get to hear some shades of the Wish sound that was soon to come (Esten and 2 Late alternatve version),

i agree, those are good tracks. :smth023

Quote from: lostflower4 on May 28, 2010, 12:24:13
Almost makes me wonder if a different person was working on this portion of the release...

at least it's proof that it wasn't the same monkey that mastered 4:13!

Quote from: lostflower4 on May 28, 2010, 12:24:13
It just reaffirms my belief that Robert 1) hates Boris or 2) really knows nothing about drums and just got really lucky when hiring Boris in the first place.

sadly, one of those might be true - or maybe both?  :?

it's true that porl's guitar parts weren't that high in the mix in the live shows, but i think that was really odd anyway. i'd rather hear more of him too.
[/quote]


Quote from: Matti on May 28, 2010, 13:13:49nice contrast to the general "They've / he's f**ked up yet another release..." bitching attitude I sense.

i'm not bitching, just saying my impression. there's a difference there. and i never said they've f**ked up the whole release, did i?
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

rommel617

this is great... I LOVE DISINTEGRATION ... 3CD DELUXE EDITION... WOOOOOOOOOOO :-D :D :)

Matti

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 28, 2010, 17:30:10i'm not bitching, just saying my impression. there's a difference there. and i never said they've f**ked up the whole release, did i?

I didn't mean You or anyone else in particular, You're as free as anyone else to state Your opinion. I'm just a little annoyed about the negative attitudes that seem to spread ever since the remasters came along.
and we close our eyes to sleep
to dream a boy and girl
who dream the world is nothing but a dream

Whiskers

Just for reference on volume level, I put the remastered Fascination Street from the deluxe CD and the original version found on the 1989 CD into Audacity and took a screenshot (new on top, old on bottom): http://i48.tinypic.com/14tsbqa.jpg

japanesebaby

Quote from: Whiskers on May 29, 2010, 00:23:10
Just for reference on volume level, I put the remastered Fascination Street from the deluxe CD and the original version found on the 1989 CD into Audacity and took a screenshot (new on top, old on bottom): http://i48.tinypic.com/14tsbqa.jpg

yes the volume is boosted but it's still not clipping throughout, just some isolated cymbal crashes and other sudden loud peaks are clipped. that is still not the same as digital distortion, nowhere near anything like for instance on 4:13. you could try looking at the waveform of that album for comparison.
you also might want to read what lostflower4 wrote a few posts back.


btw has anyone gotten the double vinyl yet? :?:
i wonder is it's worth buying or if it's just the cd version put on vinyl (like with 4:13).
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

japanesebaby

also, if you take a whole song and look at the waveform for that, pretty much everything might look like it's clipping/distorted, just because the waveform is being squeezed to fit the whole song in the image.  
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Ulrich

Back in 1989, I bought the vinyl (did not own a cd player back then). So the first version of "Last Dance" I heard was the live version on the flipside of the POY single. Later I borrowed the CD from a friend and didn't like the version of LD much, sounded a bit "overproduced" to my ears (being used to the live version)! :shock:
In all, I didn't think the (old) Disintegration CD sounded very good compared to the vinyl. So I kept listening to my vinyl, later when I had a cd player I bought "Entreat" (1991) and listened to this a lot.
"Entreat Plus" admittedly sounds a little weak in comparison.  :?

The complete 3CD Deluxe Edition for me is a good product. The album seems to sound a little better than the old CD version to me. (I'm not an expert though.)
It's great to listen to 'sketches' and demos, instrumental versions etc.! It's a bit of being able to understand how the album was done and finally completed. So as fan this is VERY interesting for me (even though I can see why some songs were not used).  :D

Btw, I just read a review about a remastered Rolling Stones record, apparently they did add background singers and new vocals by Mick Jagger.
Seems like this is pretty "normal" these days. Not a very good idea in my opinion though.  :roll:
The holy city breathed like a dying man...

lostflower4

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 29, 2010, 00:32:57
Quote from: Whiskers on May 29, 2010, 00:23:10
Just for reference on volume level, I put the remastered Fascination Street from the deluxe CD and the original version found on the 1989 CD into Audacity and took a screenshot (new on top, old on bottom): http://i48.tinypic.com/14tsbqa.jpg

yes the volume is boosted but it's still not clipping throughout, just some isolated cymbal crashes and other sudden loud peaks are clipped. that is still not the same as digital distortion, nowhere near anything like for instance on 4:13. you could try looking at the waveform of that album for comparison.
you also might want to read what lostflower4 wrote a few posts back.

Yeah, I mean... If you compare the peaks on those two waveforms, there's really not all that much difference. However, I will admit it looks kind of bad from the 3-5 minute mark. There's quite a lot going on by then, the way that song builds up layer by layer.

It could still be much worse, though. And as jb said, sometimes things will look worse until you zoom in on them a little bit more. But I can guarantee you that 4:13 would look pretty much like a solid rectangle if you took similar screenshots of songs from that.  :smth011

Sure, if I was in charge of mastering this I would have done everything a bit quieter, because it's just the right thing to do, sound-wise. But with a lot of remasters, I find that it's often a compromise between keeping some of the original sound and pushing the loudness envelope — a choice that isn't usually given for brand new stuff, which is just crushed to death.

I think Join the Dots is somewhat overcompressed for the pre-1995 material, but not too bad. But after that, everything is just compressed like it was on the original releases (a lot).

So I would not be surprised if the treatment for a Wish remaster is decent, and then things go right back to the loudness war after that.  :roll:


tram71

I've had the remaster for about a week now - I've listened to it about six times now; three times through headphones, and three times on the car stereo - and I just don't hear anything out of place (i.e., clipping) on the remaster of the album. Everything sounds warmer and clearer to me, and also I can "hear" the space between the instruments - which is really cool.

Honestly, I haven't had any issues with any of the remasters thus far, and I like the fact that I can listen to just about all of my Cure stuff now without having to really adjust volume settings or EQ's.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think it sounds great. I'm looking forward to the Wish remaster, whenever we get it.