Author Topic: Robert on Jason Cooper  (Read 11641 times)

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Offline dsanchez

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Robert on Jason Cooper
« on: September 28, 2011, 16:23:23 »
A comment written by Bob on thecure.com

Quote
Posted by CURE:ROBERT on 9/27/2011 11:24 AM (GMT-04:00)

http://rockhall.com/inductees/nominees/the-cure/ BORIS WILLIAMS, LOL TOLHURST AND JASON COOPER HAVE EACH BEEN THE CURE'S DRUMMER ON FOUR ALBUMS... BORIS WILLIAMS WAS IN THE BAND FOR 9 YEARS AND LOL TOLHURST FOR 11 YEARS (5 YEARS AS DRUMMER)... BUT JASON COOPER HAS BEEN DRUMMING WITH THE CURE FOR 17 YEARS, FROM 1994 TO THE PRESENT DAY... JASON COOPER IS THE CURE'S DRUMMER - AND IT SICKENS ME THAT HE DOESNT GET A NAME CHECK... BAH! RSX


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Offline dsanchez

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 17:15:38 »
By the way, Bob is angry because in the note (about The Cure being nominee for 2012 induction on the Rock and Roll hall of fame) Boris is mentioned as The Cure's drummer, but not Jason :roll:

What Robert forget is that The Cure was very popular during the time of Boris Williams, and contests like this prioritize popularity over anything.
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Offline Trust...

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 20:18:46 »
I am totally agree with Robert !!!!
Popular or not, they can't ignore Jason and btw I am maybe the only one , but for me is Jason the drummer of the band.

And I like Robert's message. Jason does diserve respect too! Well said Robert!
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Offline Adlib

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 02:29:45 »
Quoting the article : " In the late ‘80s, they jumped from clubs to arenas and stadiums, winning the radio play they’d long deserved with 1987’s “Just Like Heaven,” (which took an “alternative” sound to the mainstream before people were even using the term alternative) and their 1992 smash “Friday I’m In Love.” "

Who is ridiculous here ? The writer of this article (aside the usual reference to goth and emo) ? Robert's reaction ?

As far as I know, and I've been listening to this band long before the end of the 80's, Jason Cooper had not joined the fold by then. If this nomination has to do with this era, there is definitely no reason Jason Cooper would be concerned with it. Harsh to say, but that's just reading... and what is written here is just facts.

Fact also is that everyone have their own feelings about Jason Cooper's style / playing / whatever you want... Mine is not that positive, and there is no lack of respect to say that he might be good in his style, but not to my ears, and not from what I'm expecting The Cure should sound like. And that's been lasting for 15 years (17 for Robert, thankfully not for me).

I loved this band for what they did then, not for what they do now and above all not for what they have been doing for the last 10 years. Once loved, can't hate totally. That's exactly the meaning of the article. They just forgot about Jason, but they also forgot about Andy (who is a far better drummer though... Sorry, but if it comes to these considerations, it has to be said...) and forgot about Phil, Matthew, Perry (I stop there before forgetting other members too). Mind you, certainly not on purpose.

Point is, this article emphasises on the 80s. And Jason was learning how to play drums by then... Nothing harmful in saying that. Read again : there is no reference to anything beyond 1992...

"Niceboy" Smith should remember how clever he has been when he thanked every single member of The Cure since the beginning but Lol Tolhurst as he received the British Award for Best Band in 1991. That's exactly as nice as what this article says (except that this article certainly has no mean or harming intentions, which certainly wasn't Bob's point of view by 1991 regarding Lol). Purposedly.

Just goes to show that when one throws a boomerang, it invariably comes back.

Anyway, if I read between Smith's screaming words, I can't see much future for Cooper in this band... "BUT JASON COOPER HAS BEEN DRUMMING WITH THE CURE FOR 17 YEARS, FROM 1994 TO THE PRESENT DAY...". Fair enough ? Game over ?

Come on Bob ! This is just the most hypocritical sentence you've ever said (and god knows the guy is used to being cynical). Cooper's been bashed up for the last 15 years and you never said anything about it. A single article rose this ? I can't believe it.

Fact also is that if fans bash the drummer, they bash the band in a way. And that's not the most pleasant thing to do (for fans who love the band and would have killed to defend them, yeah that's the way it was). Honestly, I know many people who turn their back from this band not just because the drummer is whatever they think about him, but simply also because the overall feeling is that the music is just weaker now than it used to be. A band is a whole. Put what people consider for whatever reason as a weak link in it and the magic of music is gone. Weak links, in the case of The Cure are multiple, beginning with Smith's myopa (or deafness...). 

Not facing it is just one more stone thrown in the garden and will certainly enable bashers to do their business a little more passionately. Thanks Mister Smith, that's clever.

Bob, go back to some diplomacy course. If you've to scream your hatred on someone, do it on fans who spent their time spitting on Jason. A simple "F*** **f" would be easy, and more honest than using a flame thrower on a "desperate journalist". Oh yeah, it's not polite to do that, it would be shocking. But at least, things would become clearer to most. Unless you "clearly" want to put the blame on Jason, but I can't believe it's your motivation, is it ?

They got clearer for me when you said "If you don't like this LP, you don't like The Cure". It was in 2004, and I suddenly realized that you were so obviously and absolutely right... Thanks for having opened my eyes then (that's always too late, but at least better late than never). You're the man of no compromision. You're the guy who wrote "Killing An...". Even this, you won't sing it again.

Be courageous, for once. 

Honestly ? I doubt you can. You've gone too far and your tower is to high now... You realized that falling would be harmful.

Faint angers never bring anything good. Remember 1991, Bob, remember... The one who killed with the axe shall die by the axe.
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Offline TheRedSinger

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 04:08:55 »
I really think that Jason's not THAT good for the cure music...

I agree in a lot of points that Adlib talks about. I felt the coment of Robert was similar to a girl crying because she wants to see the smile of everybody and nobody smiles to her...

If Robert wants Jason on the band, he's going to have him anyway. No matter what people, or journalist say. So what's the point of the coment? I just dont get it... If a lot of people ignore or criticize Jason, is because something is wrong. If Robert doesn't wants to see it, or from his perspective, the members of the band right now are perfect, well, that's his problem :)

Offline cure89

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 09:53:03 »
@Adlib: True words.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 11:50:43 »
Thanks.

I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views (except maybe when he took part in the onlie free music controversy, I must say he was damn right this time). But what did he say or do during the last 10 years is purely meaningless : promising records that never show up, cancelling tours, having doubtful collaborations and always speaking when the wise position would certainly be to shut up. 

This time was certainly the best opportunity to remain silent. What he did here will just have the opposite effect. More bashing on Cooper.

See, Robert's positions were fun in the past. He always had something rather funny to say. Sometimes he could become horribly boring and rather pseudo intellectualising, but at least cynical, in a constructive way. And  what's there ? A moaning guy, nothing more. Well, this kind of statement is everything but convincing. At least when he talked about Simple Minds, ABBA and U2 in the 80s, he was funny and his point was well developped so that there couldn't be any discussion afterwards.

Either he lost any common sense, either it's part of a strategy to sack Cooper soon. But in a rather diplomatic way. As if it would be the first member to be fired... The other times, there was no velvet glove. 

Speaking lack of respect, the "Reflection" newly announced shows are just part of the (many) things that are purely disgusting. Weren't the Sydney concerts announced as one shot events ? As a result, how many fans went there spending an awful lot of money in hope to attend a very special event ? Just to hear 3 months later that "due to demand, we are going to play in London, LA and NYC". That's a lack of respect and it only shows that something rotten has invaded the fruit : money. Oh, yeah, that's an easy judgement, but that's the way I see it. What next ? Paris and Moscow in 2 months ?

Lacking of respect to fans is certainly the worst an artist can do, and I'm afraid to say, Robert has become an expert in this art, lately. 

1989 and 1992 farewells were sincere. Now that's just ridiculous and the joke isn't funny anymore.

I'm afraid to say the level of such statements make me wish one thing : Robert should never have gone out with Eden Gallup. The boy had a really nasty influence... Because that's what it is : meaningless and useless.

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).
When the wise shows the star, the fools look at his finger...

Offline Ulrich

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 10:05:19 »
I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Where do you keep hearing this? I don't, certainly not here in this forum.  :?

We should not forget: Robert is a human too. Humans change their minds, they get upset at times, they say stupid things they shouldn't say etc.
Thus: Robert can go wrong, as can happen to all of us!
He is a normal person too, let's not forget that.

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).

IF Robert were to play solo, he would still sound like RS, not ND.  ;)

Anyway, if you never agree with Robert anymore, maybe time to look for someone else, someone more interesting? There's loads of good musicians out there, known and unknown.
but memory's not life... and it's not love.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 13:26:29 »
I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Where do you keep hearing this? I don't, certainly not here in this forum.  :?

I don't know why, but in a way, I was quite surprised noone answered this post before. Not that I expected a reply, but, anyway.

Look at the topic : "Trust..." 's message is exactly the type of message you get once there is a slight beginning of info about this band, interesting or bloody boring. This site is called Curefans.com, and I shouldn't argue : that's what you get from fans, and that's nice. However, a bit of objectivity never killed anyone.

I'm not asking for thesis as answers, but that's the type of post that makes me... mad. Reading "Robert is right" or whatever else without further explanation is so interesting it could as well mention "Today it's sunny" : it's just tiring and as much informative. It's even more tiring when he is so wrong, and that's what I explained in my posts.

Now, people are prone not to agree with my point of view, that's what forums are about : discussing, within the limits of politeness. I don't think I've been too rude.

We should not forget: Robert is a human too. Humans change their minds, they get upset at times, they say stupid things they shouldn't say etc.
Thus: Robert can go wrong, as can happen to all of us!
He is a normal person too, let's not forget that.

You're right about that. But mind you, he also is a public person. I'd never comment private life issues. However, when it comes to such considerations, his reaction was public. And thus, he made it possible to be discussed and commented. Why he reacted this way is his business. But then again, sorry to say that, sometimes one would better keep his month shut just to avoid being ridiculous.

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).

IF Robert were to play solo, he would still sound like RS, not ND.  ;)

Are you that sure ? His last real works on acoustic guitars go back to "Bloodflowers". Listen closely to this album again and you'll hear something quite intersting with the acoustic guitars parts : certainly not something you could hear in their discography before. This change of style made the music more intimist, something that could be compared to the approach they had when they recorded "17 seconds", something refreshing and new, soundwise.

I'm not saying that I expect Robert Smith to sound like Nick Drake, that would be stupid. Anyway, musicians are made of their influences and Nick Drake is one of Smith's best influence (I'm not saying it, he does). I said "à la" which doesn't mean "paste and glue".

Now, listen to "Small hours". Smith rediscovered open tunings on guitars (should remind you that Nick Drake almost exclusively played in open tunings)... To me it's one of the best songs he recorded in the last 10 years. What I expect from him is just to surprise me musically, and this song was a perfect mean to do so. It sounds different. Ok it's a cover, but then again he recorded it on his own with a drum machine and samples... That's what I meant when I said I wished he would play alone.   

As a musician, I'm quite sure people would say my style of playing is really much influenced by Robert Smith's guitar style... You can't struggle against that. Neither can Robert Smith or anyone I know, musically wise. Everyone somehow sounds like their influence, that's a rule of nature in all kinds of arts. Clever people go beyond, but always come back to their influence : that's a fuel for creativity.

Anyway, if you never agree with Robert anymore, maybe time to look for someone else, someone more interesting? There's loads of good musicians out there, known and unknown.

Ah ? Is that your best point ? How smart ! Something more to add ?

Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Do you really think my whole life depends on Robert Smith and his band ? (look at how many posts I sent since 2006, you'll understand what I mean).

Do you really think that's the only band I listen too ? It would be sad if it was the case, and fortunately it's not. By any mean, I've followed their career as a "fan" since 1981. Not that it gives me the right to speak, but at least I saw by myself (and not in biographies) the changes in this band. If I want to comment you certainly are not the type of person that would prevent me from doing so, considering this last sentence.

In my post I wrote "Once loved can't hate totally". It would be stupid for me not to enjoy the records I like(d) just because I don't like the last ones. And anyway, even if I hated the whole lot, what would prevent me from talking on this forum ? You or people using the same kind of point ? (believe me, it's really common on Cure related forums : when people have nothing more to say, that's exactly the type of methodical reasoning they use, how strange...).

Ahahahahahaha !
When the wise shows the star, the fools look at his finger...

Offline Ulrich

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 16:17:11 »
I'm not asking for thesis as answers, but that's the type of post that makes me... mad. Reading "Robert is right" or whatever else without further explanation is so interesting it could as well mention "Today it's sunny" : it's just tiring and as much informative.

Not my problem. Don't read them is all I can say.

Are you that sure ?

No.


Ah ? Is that your best point ?

No.

How smart ! Something more to add ?

Thanks - and no, nothing to add.

Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Absolutely, I'm from Germany I must be a nazi.  :P  :lol:

Do you really think my whole life depends on Robert Smith and his band ?

No. I never thought or even hinted at that.

Do you really think that's the only band I listen too ?

No.
But you wrote such an awful lot in reply to my few sentences, wich makes the impression you take it way too important...  :roll:
but memory's not life... and it's not love.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 16:36:03 »
Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Absolutely, I'm from Germany I must be a nazi.  :P  :lol:

At least, you're convinced about this point.

But you wrote such an awful lot in reply to my few sentences, wich makes the impression you take it way too important...  :roll:

I don't post that often here.
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Offline Ulrich

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 16:43:29 »
I don't post that often here.

I didn't say you post here often. You posted an awful lot in reply above to my few sentences, it honestly seemed almost too much for me at first glance...  :o

Btw, I just noticed that someone above posted nothing but "True words", which is not any more helpful than "Robert is always right". You didn't complain about that, strangely enough.  :lol:
but memory's not life... and it's not love.

Offline Adlib

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2011, 16:58:22 »
I meant that I don't spend my life here reading stuff, and above all, don't spent my life here posting. It took me about 3 days to reply, because I saw your reply today.

I thanked for the "true words" statements and developped what I thought about it... Just to make things clear. 

I didn't know there was an admissible size for posts, anyway... And I return you your clever reply : don't read mine if you are not interested in them.
When the wise shows the star, the fools look at his finger...

Offline Ulrich

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2011, 19:08:49 »
I didn't know there was an admissible size for posts, anyway... And I return you your clever reply : don't read mine if you are not interested in them.

I never said there was an "admissible size", you seem to misunderstand my posts a lot? Or is this deliberate (i.e. you don't want to understand)?

Until now I was interested in your post(s). But the discussion you started here has gone off-topic very quickly. And I replied to you directly because you hinted at having a "general problem" with Cure Fan-Forums (quote: "that's what you get from fans").
However posting your opinion about RS/Jason is a far cry from your conclusion:
"The only thing I now expect from this band is a split"

Know what I mean? I'll quote you again:
"But then again, sorry to say that, sometimes one would better keep his month shut just to avoid being ridiculous."
 ;)

To get back on-topic: RS wasn't totally wrong: Jason does get overlooked by the media in some ways. (After all he's been writing & playing drum-parts for many years. ) This just doesn't have all that much to do with the "Hall Of Fame" nominations, but I guess he had to mention it somehow...
Everything else is off-topic and should belong to other threads.
but memory's not life... and it's not love.

Offline Matti

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Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2011, 19:34:35 »
Erm... Popcorn, anyone?

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