Tapers and Bloggers. Who's the selfish?

dsanchez · May 27, 2008, 01:19:11

I'm really pissed off about this
http://blog.curefans.com/dsanchez/2008/05/26/tapers-and-bloggers-whos-the-selfish/

Your thoughts?

iwannashagsimon · May 27, 2008, 02:42:44

Well.....I do agree it was wrong of him to convert it to MP3 after the tapper asked that it not be. But on the other hand, I can also understand the guy's converting it so more folks can enjoy it. After 9 years of downloading MP3's the FLAC is still new to me. And cos of that after I download everything I convert everything to MP3 only cos I know for a fact that file extension can play on all programs, CD players, etc. I hate when I download something then find out nothing recognizes the file extention.

I think the tapper or the blogger should have posted links to free online converters or free online players that could recognize the FLAC file. That way the taper's wishes of it not being converted could have been honored. And yet more folks could still enjoy the concert and convert it into the file extention they are comfortable with for thier own private use.

I hope all of that makes sense!

Janko · May 27, 2008, 07:46:01

I completely agree with the guy when he said:

Nex time, if you want just you or a group of people listen your recording, write it exactly and with password and shared it just among your friend. It does not make sense to publish in public forums.

I'm sorry David, but the whole concept you try to establish is a bit silly.
(not to mention it's impossible)

japanesebaby · May 27, 2008, 16:48:47

janko, it's not silly.

i find it much more silly that people think internet gives then all the right to have no respect whatsoever to other people. because that's what it is.

and in the end, who wins, who loses? the community (including you, and me) loses because some more people will say "ok i'm fed up with sharing because people have no manners".
so go figure.

(and just because it's impossible to "control" everyone in the web does not mean people have the right to do whatever they want and show middle finger to someone who wanted to share. sometimes i wonder if all these people who keep flashing their middle finger all around this way also do it as much in they daily lives? or do they only lose they manners when they go online?)

@iwannashagsimon: i don't understand why you imply that converting to lossy mp3s is somehow necessary for you if you want to play music with a cd player?

:

scatcat · May 27, 2008, 17:21:21

well , as a newbie to technolgogy.. i.e. mp3, Flac, etc.. i am always wary.

David, you put this up on dime in good faith. Unfortunately.. real-life, there are many not-so-decent people out there. Typical. Not everyone has respect.

As far as I know about Dime ( which I still can't get an account yet..) :roll:

is that if you do put a torrent up there for all for grabs, then, it is 'assuming' that it will be respected and revered as your recording. Unfortunately , this does NOT happen.

they snatch - and- grab.. like many other 'free download' sites.

Maybe if it was released only in the curefans community, it would not occur so frequently.
Although I know of some very, very bad snatchers..

I am sorry that this has happened to you. I know the effort required for such an event is extreme.

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 27, 2008, 16:48:47

i find it much more silly that people think internet gives then all the right to have no respect whatsoever to other people. because that's what it is.

and in the end, who wins, who loses? the community (including you, and me) loses because some more people will say "ok i'm fed up with sharing because people have no manners".
so go figure.

(and just because it's impossible to "control" everyone in the web does not mean people have the right to do whatever they want and show middle finger to someone who wanted to share. sometimes i wonder if all these people who keep flashing their middle finger all around this way also do it as much in they daily lives? or do they only lose they manners when they go online?)

the internet is f*ckd . Face it.. whatever you publish , no longer remains your own. Your personal stamp.

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 27, 2008, 16:48:47

@iwannashagsimon: i don't understand why you imply that converting to lossy mp3s is somehow necessary for you if you want to play music with a cd player? :

... some of us have no choice when it comes to technology. although Flac is preferred, unless one has a state of the art system, it makes no outstanding difference. ( not all of us are music majors!.. just fans who want to hear their favourite band!)

If i pods, mp3's are THE stereos of today and tomorrow, then... why bother with flac?

BTW.. before anyone blasts me for this.. I do have flac, and the conversions.. but.. each to thier own, and yes, affordability!

j · May 27, 2008, 18:48:01

Guys, listen. If a taper asks for people not to convert to mp3 you should have the common courtesy to honor that request (it is a different thing if you convert it for your own personal use).

After all, you would not have this recording if not for the taper. And this is a never ending **** fest. There will be arguments that the taper doesn't own the recording, the artist does. There will be people bitching that certain shows which are known to have been recorded never see the light of day. People not honoring tapers wishes is a part of the reason why recordings aren't released. There are many other reasons why tapes aren't released (backstabbing traders, etc).

This argument always comes up and there are 3 sides. My side, your side, and people in the middle that don't give a shit as long as they are able to hear the recording. Since we have had this argument here many times, let's not repeat the same old mantra.

It is people that blatantly disregard a taper's wishes that are to blame when recordings aren't released to the general public. Blame them, not the taper.

japanesebaby · May 27, 2008, 18:53:51

Quote from: scatcat on May 27, 2008, 17:21:21
Quote from: japanesebaby on May 27, 2008, 16:48:47
i find it much more silly that people think internet gives then all the right to have no respect whatsoever to other people. because that's what it is.

and in the end, who wins, who loses? the community (including you, and me) loses because some more people will say "ok i'm fed up with sharing because people have no manners".
so go figure.

(and just because it's impossible to "control" everyone in the web does not mean people have the right to do whatever they want and show middle finger to someone who wanted to share. sometimes i wonder if all these people who keep flashing their middle finger all around this way also do it as much in they daily lives? or do they only lose they manners when they go online?)

the internet is f*ckd . Face it.. whatever you publish , no longer remains your own. Your personal stamp.

but you miss my point. my question was: why do people turn into selfish "i do what i please! just watch me!" bullies when they go online? this guy writes:

I'm sorry I passed your recording as mp3, but I guess you will understand it if you really wanted to keep something beautiful thinking on the rest of the people and not thinking in a kind of fame or for personal money"

fame or personal money? wow, some reasoning. how about people like him playing message board heroes (for fame!) with stunts like this?

just because the web is full of these people who have no respect and who only love themselves and their own "rights" to do this or that, doesn't mean i have to agree with them.

Quote from: j on May 27, 2008, 18:48:01
This argument always comes up and there are 3 sides. My side, your side, and people in the middle that don't give a shit as long as they are able to hear the recording. Since we have had this argument here many times, let's not repeat the same old mantra.

It is people that blatantly disregard a taper's wishes that are to blame when recordings aren't released to the general public. Blame them, not the taper.

amen.

dsanchez · May 27, 2008, 23:33:41

I agree with many of the comments written by Baby and J here.

I think the Internet makes people lazy. Ten or twenty years back it was very hard to find recordings. Talking about Peru, you would have to bring your tape to one shop here and they would pass the recording to you. And of course, you would have to pay.

Today things changed. Many people have this sharing-spirit. They would buy expensive equipments to capture the show for hundreds or thousands of others -around the world-. Taping a show is not a funny thing. I did it in Bjork because I am not so crazy for her. I couldn't do it with The Cure (because there I want to jump, scream, push, dance). Maybe I would change my mind after seeing them "n" times. But not yet.

But going back to the point, I think people should recognize the effort of those who invest their money and time to share a show that every fan would want. That's why I wonder why is so hard for people to honour one simple wish.

Because Internet makes lazy, people wants thing fast (the fast-culture). They want it fast, and they want it soon. They can't wait.

The Bjork Lima concert was recorded by me and another guy. We made the big mistake to say that we recorded the show (in a Bjork peruvian community) and that we were going to share it in a few days.

Lots of people wanted it right away. With no "Please", no manners. Some, very few, said "thank you". Just one contacted me and thanked me and asked me how he could the recording, that he could go to my home, bring a CD and I could pass him the files. Just one guy from hundreds in that community.

The others were waiting sitting down that me or the other guy would publish the show asap.

What happened later? The other taper's recording was published in a blog with even no credit to him. Just the songs in mp3 (who knows how poor encoded) and no info.txt, nothing. About me, you know it.

Maybe to think that people will respect is to be a dreamer or to be silly, wathever you call it. But what is for sure is that I learned from that not to share so easy.

A month later (december), another big band played in Peru. I've also recorded the show, but after Bjork experience I've decided to keep it with myself until last month, almost 5 months later the concert took place. I could have shared the show the very same night of that concert. But if people does not give shit, why should I?

scatcat · May 29, 2008, 16:39:39

yes, i did misunderstand here.. the main point.. jb..
Tapers should be respected, but in the real world they are not. If I was to download some concert, I would totally respect that person's wishes.. but it doesn't always end that way, unfortunately.

Things are-a-changing. It seems nobody owns anything. Another reality check for technology.

The risk those Great Ones take out there, for sharing with others is often abused.

KingOfSomeIsland · May 31, 2008, 05:03:16

I like to subscribe to the matra of "If yr gonna do something do a good job and dont half-ass it". Uploading MP3s is just half-assing it so you can get it up quicker. If yr gonna share something than why not share something good. Take the extra 15 minutes and upload the goddamn FLACs

Janko · June 03, 2008, 01:45:28

Ahead of their time back in the early 80's, the Belgian cult electronic act
FRONT 242 now makes an ultimate statement towards abusive audio compression
by releasing the free 2-track download, "First moment", in 5 various audio
sound quality formats:

1. Mp3 - 192Kbps (medium quality)
2. Mp3 - 320Kbps (good quality)
3. Wave - 16bits/44Khz files
4. Free Lossless Audio Codec (Flac) - for PC
5. M4A Apple Lossless - for Mac

It's up to the listener to hear the difference between the various audio
sound formats and thus hear for him/herself what good quality audio sounds
like. To get hold of this free 2-track download, which will hit the online
world on June 15th, you need to register here :
http://www.alfa-matrix.com/shop_comments.php?id=1524_0_8_0_C !
Pre-registering is needed in order to get hold of the free download.

japanesebaby · June 03, 2008, 08:16:17

Quote from: Janko on June 03, 2008, 01:45:28
Ahead of their time back in the early 80's, the Belgian cult electronic act
FRONT 242 now makes an ultimate statement towards abusive audio compression
by releasing the free 2-track download, "First moment", in 5 various audio
sound quality formats:

1. Mp3 - 192Kbps (medium quality)
2. Mp3 - 320Kbps (good quality)
3. Wave - 16bits/44Khz files
4. Free Lossless Audio Codec (Flac) - for PC
5. M4A Apple Lossless - for Mac

It's up to the listener to hear the difference between the various audio
sound formats and thus hear for him/herself what good quality audio sounds
like. To get hold of this free 2-track download, which will hit the online
world on June 15th, you need to register here :
http://www.alfa-matrix.com/shop_comments.php?id=1524_0_8_0_C !
Pre-registering is needed in order to get hold of the free download.

a lot of artists have brains today to offer downloads in various formats, just see this:
http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,5137.0.html
(that one even has a hi-res option available!)
many artists who share their music free through places like archive.org offer lossless download too.

and thus i find it totally silly that Radiohead got so much publicity with their free album - as it was utterly silly because it was mp3-only(!) - like they were ahead of their time or something? on the contrary: besides, they still forced people who want a quality copy of their album to go and pay for it(!).

(anyway, shouldn't that be posted on 'other artists'/'downloads', janko? i'm not entirely sure what this has to do with bloggers at all?)

:

scatcat · June 03, 2008, 15:29:36

i do now understand that the format for 'ultimate' recording : as far as music quality goes... is FLAC.

I did not know this even 6-12 months before today. :!:

I have a learnt a hell-of-a-lot through this site, about 'quality' recordings.

I can honestly also say, I do not have the equipment that polarises one format against the other.

I Love The Cure. However, my bank balance doesnot allow me to enjoy in so much high-quality sound. I have many FLAC recordings.. they are complete in all areas.
I have also had to convert FLAC, in order to listen to some magical concerts, as I cannot upgrade my PC sound system.

When discussing 'selfish' behaviour... as stated above, It is only a sign of respect to distribute/trade/share in the same format as asked. That is the code of music traders/sharers.
If this is disregarded, or abused in any manner than recieved, then.... I say.. set the 'dogs' on them for butchering such a recording!

IMHO bloggers are the most selfish.
End of comment.

Janko · June 03, 2008, 19:29:24

Quote from: japanesebaby on June 03, 2008, 08:16:17

(anyway, shouldn't that be posted on 'other artists'/'downloads', janko? i'm not entirely sure what this has to do with bloggers at all?) :

The point of my post was to try and compare the sound quality of various formats. Or as F242 said:

QuoteIt's up to the listener to hear the difference between the various audio
sound formats and thus hear for him/herself what good quality audio sounds
like.

My point is that there are vast differences, but in casual listening - the MP3 vs FLAC difference is not THAT relevant and it is understandable to want to convert to a smaller file...

Steve · June 03, 2008, 20:13:42

What can I say David, except the guy is a dick of the highest order (& a shameless one to boot).
But then again, I guess there was already a little voice in the back of your head telling you that it would end up somewhere compressed to fcuk when you first shared it.
That being said, it is a simple case of manners & manners cost nothing.
I discovered bubcat's Toronto recording on a blog last week & I let him know, in case he wanted to do as you did.
He didn't seem to bothered TBH, but then he hadn't explicitly asked not to have it shared loosily.
& @J It is a belief that this is the reason behind recordings not getting let "into the wild", but I was also told that many tapers do it as a hobby & simply don't want to share & they simply aren't interested in message boards. Fair enough. Their work, their choice.
But destruction of the original isn't the only reason there.

What really takes the p!ss here is the bare faced audacity of the reply from the guy (is it a guy?).
Get a hold of his contact details & spam the b@stard.