The Jokela school shooting

Started by dsanchez, November 07, 2007, 20:27:54

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japanesebaby

i just find it shocking that someone here can write that "it's not shocking that this happened" - just like things like this were something more or less normal that are bound to happen every once in a while. yeah, maybe they do happen every once in a while because there surely is a lot of fucked up people out there, everywhere. but we just cannot say something like this, we cannot start acceoting these things and just shrug them away with a "it's not shocking, it's not a surprise". whatever fucked up things happened, the starting point should be not to accept it and not to give these sort of things room in our everyday thinking as something "normal"/regular. so just like the shooter is responsible for his actions, we should be responsible for our reactions. because our reactions shape the world around us, make it what it is.

sorry but to me it seems that people who can say that just don't feel anything much. that's what annoys me here.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

AlluivialL

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 08, 2007, 08:15:20
i just find it shocking that someone here can write that "it's not shocking that this happened" - just like things like this were something more or less normal that are bound to happen every once in a while. yeah, maybe they do happen every once in a while because there surely is a lot of fucked up people out there, everywhere. but we just cannot say something like this, we cannot start acceoting these things and just shrug them away with a "it's not shocking, it's not a surprise". whatever fucked up things happened, the starting point should be not to accept it and not to give these sort of things room in our everyday thinking as something "normal"/regular. so just like the shooter is responsible for his actions, we should be responsible for our reactions. because our reactions shape the world around us, make it what it is.

sorry but to me it seems that people who can say that just don't feel anything much. that's what annoys me here.

"It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere."

NOT "it's not that shocking that this happened"
But I think I get a bit confused, am I seducing or being seduced?

japanesebaby

Quote from: AlluivialL on November 08, 2007, 08:32:12
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 08, 2007, 08:15:20
i just find it shocking that someone here can write that "it's not shocking that this happened" - just like things like this were something more or less normal that are bound to happen every once in a while. yeah, maybe they do happen every once in a while because there surely is a lot of fucked up people out there, everywhere. but we just cannot say something like this, we cannot start acceoting these things and just shrug them away with a "it's not shocking, it's not a surprise". whatever fucked up things happened, the starting point should be not to accept it and not to give these sort of things room in our everyday thinking as something "normal"/regular. so just like the shooter is responsible for his actions, we should be responsible for our reactions. because our reactions shape the world around us, make it what it is.

sorry but to me it seems that people who can say that just don't feel anything much. that's what annoys me here.

"It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere."

NOT "it's not that shocking that this happened"

yes i did recognize the difference between the two, but it's still the all the same anyway:
because it still displays the sad fact that people get so numb when they live around these things, when they happen more or less often in their own neighborhood (like these school shootings seem to happen in US). and so people start accepting them and start thinking it's all something more or less "normal" - moreover they think: " if it's normal round here, then it's normal/to be expected it's going to happen everywhere". whereas it is simply NOT like that.

it's sad that people get so numb that they actually dont really care anymore but almost seem to accept some mindless school shootings as being part (although an unpleasant part) of the "modern day school world all around the world" - because that's  screwed up, sorry.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

CureCrusader

Man, that makes me feel safe here in Aus but that doesn't mean that I am. WOW! Who would've thought that Finland has the 2nd moost ammount of guns.... WHY CANT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD JUST LEARN TO LIVE WITH EACHOTHER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :smth011 :smth011 :smth011
Who am I? Who are you? Is this world what we percieve it to be? Do we even exist?

Cure Freak

#19
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 08, 2007, 06:46:16
Quote from: Janko on November 07, 2007, 21:32:23
CNN SAIS THAT FINLAND HAS THE SECOND BIGGEST RATE OF GUNS POSSESION AMONG PEOPLE, ONLY USA HAS BIGGER...

yes it's certainly true. most are guns licenced for hunting/hunting societies though. as finland is a very sparesely populated country with lots of forest regions with practically no inhabintants. thus hunting is a very common tradition/pastime. so most guns registered here are hunting rifles. not that i am pro-hunting at all, but it's still a bit different than in the US where people just get handguns just because it's their "right to have a gun" or because they "want to protect themselves". it's completely impossible for a person just to go and buy a handgun here, like in america. that kind of thinking is pretty alien around us here, i think. there is practically no "handgun tradition" in finland.
anyway, all guns are guns, whatever the purpose was.

this is an ugly thing to say but this puts up my dislike towards americanism a lot today. something like this is so alien and so out of place, it's something that some disturbed people mimick from america, word to word.

Quote from: Cure Freak on November 07, 2007, 21:27:14
But, of the numerous school shootings, the US has had recently.
It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere.

and sorry to say such a thing, it's nothing against anyone and i don't want to start "us vs. them" here or anything. but to say "it's happened in america so it was just a matter of time it happened here" - why should it happene here? why should we mimick anything as sick as that? and most of all, why is all that sickness spreading here from america??
it doesn't give it any reasons, to say "It's not that shocking that it can happen anywhere". because it shouldn't happen here - or more, it shouldn't happen anywhere. and it never happened here before, it never happened here until it happened repeatedly in america and then started spreading around because some sick people want to mimick everything american because they think it's somehow "cool". sorry if i find it somehow belittling to say that since it's happened in america, it is "not shocking" it can happen anywhere. maybe so, but it is STILL very shocking, wherever it happens! we cannot just say "oh well, just one more of these cases". it's always VERY shocking. we shouldn't belittle it like this but pay MORE attention to everything than before. because it's dangerous to say it's not shocking if we think like this, we stop caring for each other and we stop respecting each other like we should. sentiments like this only make it happen more and more because it means we somehow start accepting these things as part of something "normal". but just because something starts to happen more and more often it still doesn't mean it's "normal".
there's nothing to justify any single one of this kind of acts.

ok i'm sorry to say such things aloud but i am just angry towards this sick americanism today.
because the truth is that we mostly get bad things like this through it, it's just quite difficult to think anything positive that it brought us. :/

I apologize. I shouldn't of used the term shockind. Really, the only thing that came into my mind at the time. It's a terrible tradegy that something like this  does happen, no matter where.
I'm sick of my country, as well. I'm ashame of it and I hate it. And, I intentionally, want to move out of it someday. But, just can't right now.
There should be more restrictions on gun control and laws, here. It sickens me that it seems anyone can get a firearm.
I'm agrein on you totally, M.
And again, I apologize for my use of vocabulary and thoughts on the matter.

scatcat

When I saw what had happened.. the first person I thought of was japanesebaby... was she safe? did she know anyone there? and how I never would have associated anything like like with Finland. It has changed my happy thoughts about the country.

Iknow the U.S. has more guns than peaople.. but I was not aware besides the war-torn countries that guns were that readily available.

Here in Australia, every since the shootings by a madman (won't mention his name, cos it feeds these psychos) in Tasmania, at Port Arthur., Australia has banned all semi automatic rifles and handguns. There was a huge cash for guns trade in, to get rid of all illegally owned and those that realised that we did not want our society to end up like America.. we didn't want another massacre here.

It feels safe here, without the guns.. only crims really have them, or farmers in the bush, or those who do it as a hobby.
Licensing is strict.

But the problem that scares me the most here, is the emergence of knife/sword stabbings, as well as the 'kingpin' punches that can knock a man to the ground, like David Hookes.
There are crazy people out there.. and most of them are young males. It makes me scared for when my son gets older and starts to go out..

(And you know the most wierdest thing... only last night on T.V. I was watching a show about the Columbine High School massacre.. )

I feel sad and my thoughts are with the people and communities involved in Finland.
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life

bluewater

This is very bad reputation to our country. I find it hard to believe and am shocked.

About the killers internet writings. If they are authentic. I don't know how some nazist and nihilist
thoughts have influenced so much that put into terrorist action some of our youth that are recieving good education. Perhaps some of our youth misunderstand everything they
read in school and misunderstand things like evolution, environmental problems,
misunderstand other mankind influenced problems and philosphers like Nietzche. I think philophy and evolution should not be taught at all in schools. Those subjects are for "more advanced" people like the killer. Perhaps not.

bluewater
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

dsanchez

What makes me upset is that the killer said to all the world throught YouTube "I'm going to kill people in THAT school". The video was seen more than 200 000 times, yet, no-one did care about!?! :?

I mean, if I would have seen that probably I would have written to japanesebaby, and maybe she could have phone to the finnish police, not?. And probably, no-one would regret all what in the end happened.
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

dsanchez

Quote from: AlluivialL on November 08, 2007, 06:53:05
and there isn't a lot we can do about it.

I know in the US the authorities can do a lot. By disallowing the easy-access to guns, for start. But what surprises me a lot is that more US citizens support the idea of having guns. I mean, if this mentality does not change, those cases will happen again and again...
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

Janko

EVERY DAY ALL OF US MEET AT LEAST ONE DERANGED PERSON (ON THE STREET, IN THE BUS, IN THE SCHOOL, ...), THE FACT THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM CAN LEGALLY GET A GUN ANY DAY WOULD MAKE ME PRETTY AFRAID!

:-D
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

Cure Freak

Quote from: dsanchez on November 08, 2007, 16:02:47
Quote from: AlluivialL on November 08, 2007, 06:53:05
and there isn't a lot we can do about it.

I know in the US the authorities can do a lot. By disallowing the easy-access to guns, for start. But what surprises me a lot is that more US citizens support the idea of having guns. I mean, if this mentality does not change, those cases will happen again and again...
I couldn't agree with you more. Something needs to be done.

scatcat

Quote from: dsanchez on November 08, 2007, 16:02:47
Quote from: AlluivialL on November 08, 2007, 06:53:05
and there isn't a lot we can do about it.

I know in the US the authorities can do a lot. By disallowing the easy-access to guns, for start. But what surprises me a lot is that more US citizens support the idea of having guns. I mean, if this mentality does not change, those cases will happen again and again...


there is a lot that can be done.. It has happened in Australia.. WE made it change! Be vocal, write letters to members of parliament,government, if u are passionate, do it!!
Stamp your feet.. let your voices be heard!!  :smth057

  :rocker If we want peace for our generation and the next.. we must ask for boundaries.. safe living for our children.. not just to be anti-war.. but PRO PEACE!!
That is what I want.
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life

japanesebaby

what i find alarming is that one day after the shooting there was already these groups forming on internet that were supporting the shooter and admiring what he had done, considering him as some kind of a hero. i heard for instance facebook had one group like this. videos that admire this shooter are being uploaded on youtube all the time.
also, there were fake alarms in two other schools in finland today, as someone put some rumours on internet that this or that school was going to be the next target. a lot of students got scared and just walked out and left school in the middle of the school day because of this. it is really awful if children have to become afraid to go to school because they have to fear that someone might harm them. as a teacher myself, i see this as being something really awful development. 
and to fake these kind of things as some kind of "homage" to the shooter - that's just really so irresponsible and displays such complete immaturity.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

scatcat

It is alarming.. I try not to watch news at it is!!

There will always be that copy-cat group, just ike the columbine, serial killers, etc... glorified "natural selection".. let them target this.. f**k off and kill yourselves.. not other people..
trauma will affect a lot of people in Finland in different ways, for a long time. It happened here. I just hope that the health services there are well adapted for this on-going situation.

I do wish the world would be calm.  :smth084
We all want peace. Prayers to everyone.  :smth083
I have through this site, been more aware of the rest of the world. Thank god. And, thanks to our common connection, music.
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 09, 2007, 14:16:35
and to fake these kind of things as some kind of "homage" to the shooter - that's just really so irresponsible and displays such complete immaturity.

A professor from Harvard University came last year to my University to talk about the "free culture" and all the pros and cos of the freedom in the Web. At the end he says that he's almost sure in the future everyone will have to identify himself when accesing a computer. Thought it goes against the "freedom in the Web" looks like the only way to stop such insane people.
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo