curefans.com

The Cure => Music and Lyrics => Topic started by: Whiskers on February 14, 2009, 22:46:53

Title: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Whiskers on February 14, 2009, 22:46:53
Am I alone in thinking that The Top is one of the best albums that The Cure has made? I used to dislike it greatly, but about a month ago I listened to it for maybe the third time and it finally clicked with me; I love all of the experimentation and weird sounds throughout the album (ie. the spinning tops in The Top, the funky intro of Bananafishbones, etc.), and I find it disappointing that not only was it poorly received by, well, pretty much everyone, but also that only Shake Dog Shake is still performed live.
What's everybody else's opinion of The Top?
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: fiction on February 15, 2009, 20:25:42
Quote from: Whiskers on February 14, 2009, 22:46:53
Am I alone in thinking that The Top is one of the best albums that The Cure has made? What's everybody else's opinion of The Top?

I like it very much and I have never understand the malicious nicname "The Flop" among both fans and critics.

I think it has a venom anger that really energizes the songs on it.

So You´re not walking this path alone. :smth023
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: DroidAKov on February 15, 2009, 21:25:17
I think this album is fantastic, its actually amongst my top (haha see what did, see, ha) Cure albums.  If this album was released today it would surely get something approaching the recognition it deserves.

I remember hearing up until the last few years Robert himself had a fairly poor opinion of the record but has since come to his senses.  Certainly the amount of times in their career they've actually played more than one track from this album suggests it isn't a favourite of his.

To me its a tragedy tracks like Piggy In The Mirror, Dressing Up & The Top are never performed
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Chain Of Flowers on February 19, 2009, 14:10:36
I agree that it probably is under rated, and I am guilty of under rating it on many occassions.

It's not an album that I seem to listen to very often.  If I want to play a Cure album it very rarely grabs my attention.  Although when I do listen to it I usually enjoy it.  I don't like 'The Caterpillar' or 'The Empty World' at all, but everything else on it is alright.  I think that the best track on it is 'Wailing Wall', followed closely by 'Shale Dog Shake', a track which I always like more when I hear live versions.

Perhaps the lack of enthusiasm amongst Cure fans comes from the fact that the line up was very different at that time, and it doesn't feature our most favoured members (eg, Gallup/Williams etc)?  I often wonder just how much input the other people in the band at the time had on the writing of the tracks, and suspect that it was mostly all down to Smith.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: fiction on February 19, 2009, 16:05:03
Quote from: Birdmad Girl on February 19, 2009, 14:10:36
I often wonder just how much input the other people in the band at the time had on the writing of the tracks, and suspect that it was mostly all down to Smith.

It´s often reffered to as a solo album of Mr Smith.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: lostflower4 on February 19, 2009, 19:00:23
Quote from: fiction on February 19, 2009, 16:05:03
Quote from: Birdmad Girl on February 19, 2009, 14:10:36
I often wonder just how much input the other people in the band at the time had on the writing of the tracks, and suspect that it was mostly all down to Smith.

It´s often reffered to as a solo album of Mr Smith.

It was basically just Robert on all instruments and Andy Anderson on drums. Perhaps Lol contributed a few parts, but it was probably limited to spinning the top or something like that.  :lol:

I don't know why people dislike this album. I think it's brilliant, and really the last totally strange one they did before they became more of a "pop" group.

I've always liked it from the first time I heard it — might even say it's one of my favorites. Lots of good songs, including the B-sides. The tour was excellent too.

And let me just say that I'd be all for Andy re-joining the band (assuming he's sane enough these days ;)).

I mean, come on... Having the same drummer (or pretty much any member) for 15 years straight it NOT normal for The Cure.  :!:
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: cureterra on February 26, 2009, 00:35:06
The Top is one of my favourite Cure Albums!!
I used to dislike it too, but one day I listened to it and also clicked with me.
I think this happens to several people and a lot of them haven't had this click yet... what a pitty!
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Rickenbacker4003 on March 01, 2009, 09:25:19
I find it underrated in the sense that the songs sound great in concert.  Songs like Shake Dog Shake, Piggy In The Mirror, Birdmad Girl, Give Me It, Empty World, Dressing Up, Bananafishbones all sounded better live than on the album.  Which tells me that that The Top was a badly produced and mixed album.  If the same songs sound great live and not so great on the album itself it tells me that a different production or mix would have done wonders for The Top.  In fact, the only song I truly like on The Top for what it is is The Caterpillar.  Outside of that song everything else is better live.  So yeah, I feel it's underrated.  Even the b-sides are great.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Rickenbacker4003 on March 01, 2009, 09:34:10
Quote from: lostflower4 on February 19, 2009, 19:00:23
Quote from: fiction on February 19, 2009, 16:05:03
Quote from: Birdmad Girl on February 19, 2009, 14:10:36
I often wonder just how much input the other people in the band at the time had on the writing of the tracks, and suspect that it was mostly all down to Smith.

It´s often reffered to as a solo album of Mr Smith.

It was basically just Robert on all instruments and Andy Anderson on drums. Perhaps Lol contributed a few parts, but it was probably limited to spinning the top or something like that.  :lol:

I don't know why people dislike this album. I think it's brilliant, and really the last totally strange one they did before they became more of a "pop" group.

I've always liked it from the first time I heard it — might even say it's one of my favorites. Lots of good songs, including the B-sides. The tour was excellent too.

And let me just say that I'd be all for Andy re-joining the band (assuming he's sane enough these days ;)).

I mean, come on... Having the same drummer (or pretty much any member) for 15 years straight it NOT normal for The Cure.  :!:

I agree on this.  Actually Andy had a very powerful drum sound, on bootlegs from 1984 he really had a strong presence behind the kit.  He coudl make those drums sound like claps of thunder, no drummer has matched his power behind the kit since.  But my fave is always Lol because he was so unique, so simplistic that it really stood out for me.  His drumming on Faith and Pornography was truly memorable and I wish the band could go back to that primitive, rather tribal sound again.  Lol's style was what made Pornography sound the way it did, he was the man of the show in my opinion.  If Boris or Jason had drummed on Pornography it would sound completely different and not as demented.  I was always in favor of unconventional, non-textbook drumming.  Like in the movie 24 Hour Party People when Joy Division producer Martin Hannett told the drummer during recording to cut that technically sound and flashy drumming out, he heard it "a million times before and frankly it bores the living shit out of me. Next time, slower and more simple."  I totally agreed with his idea of the ideal drum sound.  For all the praise Boris and Jason got I always loved Lol's sound the best, even Andy's.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: japanesebaby on March 01, 2009, 09:59:27
Quote from: Rickenbacker4003 on March 01, 2009, 09:25:19
If the same songs sound great live and not so great on the album itself it tells me that a different production or mix would have done wonders for The Top.

it reminds you of what's happening with 4:13 too (although i'm not saying it's underrated in any way, not at all).

i agree about the b-sides and about the top tour too.

Quote from: Rickenbacker4003 on March 01, 2009, 09:34:10
If Boris or Jason had drummed on Pornography it would sound completely different and not as demented.  I was always in favor of unconventional, non-textbook drumming.  Like in the movie 24 Hour Party People when Joy Division producer Martin Hannett told the drummer during recording to cut that technically sound and flashy drumming out, he heard it "a million times before and frankly it bores the living shit out of me. Next time, slower and more simple."  I totally agreed with his idea of the ideal drum sound. 

well put.

faster but slower (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGA6rmsnDkQ&fmt=14)  (sorry if it's a bit off-topic - but it's a great scene).
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: nausearockpig on March 03, 2009, 09:48:44
The Top is up there as one of the best The Cure albums ever released IMHO. It's a really schizophrenic example of Robert's great song writing ability. It runs the gamut of hard, nasty music [Shake Dog Shake, Give Me It] to beautiful sounds and vocal sounds [Dressing Up] and then the strangeness of Piggy In The Mirror and The Empty World. Have a listen to Piggy In The Mirrro and try to ignore the vocals, the music is amazing. In fact, do it with the whole record, throw the B-sides in the mix too and you have one of the greatest records of all time. Compare this album to any other 1984 album and this blows it out of the water.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: 1/2anOctopuss on May 28, 2009, 05:15:47
It's a great album.  The Wailing Wall can still raise the hair on the back of my neck.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: KingOfSomeIsland on June 30, 2009, 21:44:14
Well I'm gonna come out on a limb here and say that its mediocre at best. Shake Dog Shake, Piggy In The Mirror, and Bananafishbones are the only songs that really stood out to me. In fact besides those, The Caterpillar, and The Top I couldn't even name any other song off the album without actually looking at it. And those songs are pretty lame.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: nausearockpig on July 01, 2009, 13:42:24
Quote from: KingOfSomeIsland on June 30, 2009, 21:44:14
Well I'm gonna come out on a limb here and say that its mediocre at best. Shake Dog Shake, Piggy In The Mirror, and Bananafishbones are the only songs that really stood out to me. In fact besides those, The Caterpillar, and The Top I couldn't even name any other song off the album without actually looking at it. And those songs are pretty lame.

Bravo for sharing what will no doubt be an unpopular opinion!

It took me a long while to really appreciate all of the songs on there. Maybe time will change your taste, mabye not.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: mothtoaflame on September 08, 2009, 01:19:24
I absolutely love The Top!
It's energized and fun and experimental and, while it may not be their best album, it's got some of my favorite songs on it:
Birdmad Girl...
Bananafishbones...
Dressing Up...
Great stuff.
:smth020
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: kingofsorrow on September 08, 2009, 06:29:17
it's easier after all this time to like "the top" in the midst of all the other cure albums. back then however it was like WHOA! to then cure fans. back in the 80's it was referred to as the cure's disco album. :lol: the darker/deeper side of the album wasn't immediately apparent, especially with single's like "caterpillar" and "the walk".
i admit it took me a long time to appreciate "the top", but it has aged well with me.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Carnage Visor on November 05, 2009, 23:37:49
One of their best, in my opinion! I love the middle-eastern sound of some of the tracks, and the distorted sounds of other tracks. It has a really rich, psychedelic sound to it. It trips me out listening to the whole album in sequence!  8)

Plus, how can one say it's a poor album when The Caterpillar is on it? What a classic song!
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Birdmad Guy on May 15, 2013, 07:03:44
I love The Top.  I even have a tattoo on my forearm of the top symbol on the back cover of the album. 
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: tercat on August 24, 2013, 19:52:34
I agree that it's underrated.  Of course, the only song I don't like on it seems to be the only one most Cure fans do like, so clearly my taste is not the norm in this case.  I listen to Seventeen Seconds and The Top--and more recently I'm going back to The Head on the Door again--probably more than any other Cure albums these days.

I can see how The Top might have seemed pretty frothy after Pornography, but it's still a fairly dark album in a lot of ways.  It sounds like different drugs and a different response to darkness.  Instead of gloom, it's disturbed. 

There are some great lyrics on this album, too.  "The Wailing Wall" is very evocative, and "The Empty World," though short, is just glorious.  I mean, come on:

As stiff as toys
And tall as men
And swaying like the wind torn trees
She talked about the empty world
With eyes like poisoned birds

She talked about the armies
That marched inside her head
And how they made her dreams go bad
But oh!
How happy she was!
How proud she was!
To be fighting in the war
In the empty world!


As others have said, it's a wonderfully strange record, in the best sort of way, and is so quintessentially The Cure.  I love it.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: in bed amongst the stones on September 16, 2013, 04:25:12
I've always loved this album and never understood the dislike that always seems directed at it. I love it for its sheer bizarre weirdness. Robert's weird vocal fluctuations on tracks like Dressing Up, The Caterpillar and Piggy in the Mirror make me laugh. I love it! I rank it as my fifth favorite album after Faith, Pornography, Seventeen Seconds and Disintegration.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Birdmad Guy on September 23, 2013, 01:26:05
Another great thing is that I like every song on The Top.  It's the only album by them that I like every song on.  Even my fave Head on the Door has a few clunkers.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Violator on February 06, 2014, 00:19:17
Relistening to the album yesterday, I seemed to like it a lot more than I had before. Andy's drumming is still one of the highlights on the album for me; I think that his percussive work helps the album to sound so different from the other albums by the band. Robert's vocal work on the album really shows where he would go over the next couple of albums, and the music even hints at some of the songs that would show up later on THOTD and KMKMKM.
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: MeltingMan on March 18, 2014, 18:42:34
Wow! I'm impressed,because "The Top"was not very popular, in all respect, for a longer time.
Maybe it suffered by it successor "The Head on the Door".I was too young and on the "wrong side"
to be part of the audience in 1984,but I loved the title track and "The Wailing Wall" at once.I knew
this album is very,very special.I can play it up and down and I still love it!
Thanks to Robert,Andy and,of course,Laurence. :smth023
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: revolt_again on March 18, 2014, 19:01:28
It's true that 'The Top' has always been underrated by critics - it was not well received when it was initially released and still today it is usually considered to be a minor or even weak album.

But with Cure fans it seems to be different. At least most opinions I've found seem to be favourable to the album. And it's easy to understand why: while it was recorded by an atypical line-up, the track list is really strong - there's really not a weak song to be found there. It is also one of The Cure's most eclectic albums - in that respect you could say it is kind of a first attempt at the kind of album the band would do with KMKMKM or 'Wish', for instance. Even if overall it has a kind of pervasive psychedelic vibe that those laters albums don't possess. What's more to like about it? It has one of the strongest set of lyrics on any Cure album, only matched (or surpassed...) in that respect by 'Pornography' and 'Disintegration'. And it has one of Robert's most powerful vocal performances ever... Ah, and it includes one of their best openers ever ('Shake Dog Shake') and also one of their strongest closers ('The Top').
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: MeltingMan on March 19, 2014, 21:12:21
Quote from: revolt_again on March 18, 2014, 19:01:28
It's true that 'The Top' has always been underrated by critics - it was not well received when it was initially released and still today it is usually considered to be a minor or even weak album.

But with Cure fans it seems to be different. At least most opinions I've found seem to be favourable to the album. And it's easy to understand why: while it was recorded by an atypical line-up, the track list is really strong - there's really not a weak song to be found there. It is also one of The Cure's most eclectic albums - in that respect you could say it is kind of a first attempt at the kind of album the band would do with KMKMKM or 'Wish', for instance. Even if overall it has a kind of pervasive psychedelic vibe that those laters albums don't possess. What's more to like about it? It has one of the strongest set of lyrics on any Cure album, only matched (or surpassed...) in that respect by 'Pornography' and 'Disintegration'. And it has one of Robert's most powerful vocal performances ever... Ah, and it includes one of their best openers ever ('Shake Dog Shake') and also one of their strongest closers ('The Top').
Yes.Finally,I would claim it is no longer "worst Cure album ever".
It took up a special position.Maybe a reason why "Concert" was released,
to represent the live performance in that relatively short period.
Title: Anniversary "The Top" 1984-2014
Post by: MeltingMan on May 22, 2014, 10:41:51
Thirty years old now and not a bit quietly!
GOOD FOR YOU!!  :)
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: Ulrich on May 25, 2014, 11:10:17
Great pic (c/o Richard Bellia) from the recording sessions to celebrate this anniversary:

(https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/q77/s480x480/10373989_10152508620932754_2516929823953555319_n.jpg)

It's from this issue of "Uncut" Magazine:
http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-editors-diary/introducing-the-cure-the-ultimate-music-guide (http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-editors-diary/introducing-the-cure-the-ultimate-music-guide)
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: MeltingMan on May 25, 2014, 12:43:59
This is brilliant,thanks,Ulrich.(I ordered a copy,of course). :-D
Title: Re: The Top: underrated album
Post by: SusannaRS on May 26, 2014, 09:54:40
Quote from: Ulrich on May 25, 2014, 11:10:17
Great pic (c/o Richard Bellia) from the recording sessions to celebrate this anniversary:

(https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/q77/s480x480/10373989_10152508620932754_2516929823953555319_n.jpg)

It's from this issue of "Uncut" Magazine:
http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-editors-diary/introducing-the-cure-the-ultimate-music-guide (http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-editors-diary/introducing-the-cure-the-ultimate-music-guide)



Just received my copy! It's amazing!