Best of: Re-mastered/Deluxe Editions

[scatcat]

... after listening to the re-mastered Faith.. again... The Drowning Man and Charlotte Sometimes, are the only stand-outs for me.. I prefer the original album, so Faith doesn't get my vote..

@japanesebaby.  Curious to hear what your opinion is on bonus tracks of songs that we had not heard before (Play with Me, for example)?  That particular track is wonderful!  I'm cannot understand as to why it was left off TIB   

I love Play with me!! It does belong on TIB.. I agree Brian.

hmm, do i really always tend to dislike the things you like ('last dance', anyone...)? 

Last Dance for me!! 

[Hero]

Seventeen Seconds because its so perfect 

[japanesebaby]

@japanesebaby.  Curious to hear what your opinion is on bonus tracks of songs that we had not heard before (Play with Me, for example)?  That particular track is wonderful!  I'm cannot understand as to why it was left off TIB    There's some real shit on that album 

i wasn't saying everything on the bonus discs is futile. some finished out-takes, like 'play with me' for instance, were a  pleasure to discover. BUT when browsing through the deluxe bonus discs, i think it's easy for anyone to notice that there really are not many finished out-takes like this, right? most of the stuff is demos, more or less unfinished sketches etc. so people who still expect/insist that "they has to be more" have probably not paid attention and realized this balance. maybe there are more unfinished demos out there - but IF they really were more hidden finished out-takes/new songs then why weren't they included on these bonus discs already?? why would robert choose some unfinished demos over finished songs, if he could have chosen one or the other? i think the answer is probably very simple: what if it's just that there aren't any more hidden finished gems? 
so... we get all the unfinished demos, some made with really rude home equipment...

anyway, there's a lot of different kind of stuff amonst all demos there. some are more finished than others. some (but not all) 'studio demos', like those found on the beginning of the pornography bonus disc, these i can understand. at least that's somewhat "decent" playing, you get some kind of idea what sort of song this was supposed to be, how the sound was intended for the band. but i also know wouldn't have died if i never heard those. i'd still rather have a few more soundboard live tracks, if i could choose.

then, all these "$5 casio demos" (like many tracks especially on the THEOD bonus disc), i found these to be mostly a waste of my money. things like 'inbetween days' demo, or 'push' demo (sorry) - i really don't see much point. i do understand what you meant brian, about being interested in how the song was created, put together. i understand this and i agree with your point of interest there. to me it's just that these demos doesn't really tell anything very interesting about how the song was created. it could be...  that in a case of pop(ular music) songs, i personally very rarely find the means are often that interesting, just the outcome (if anything at all). to me, the means (in this case meaning demos, work copies, sketches etc.) become interesting only when the outcome is going to be a lot more larger and/or complicated than that of a pop song. the sketches become interetsing when there're somewhat more stages to track back (if you know what i mean) - when the metamorphosis from a simple idea to a finished thing took (and craved) a longer road. and to make that process interesting to observe as such, as a process, it might demand a larger context than that of a pop song. here the process is too short, too confined. now it's basically just home casio parts transcripted/translated for a band - and that's more like just re-arranging, not really re-working and developing an idea. and sketches become interesting (only?) when you can see the re-working of the subject.


by the way, not all 'studio demos' are better than 'home demos': one of the most horrendous of all studio demos is 'lime time' - which sounds like some horrendous theme song for some embarrassingly campy 80s happy family sit com or something
and all that stuff got in on the THEOTD bonus disc - but only three live tracks did... :(

[iwannashagsimon]

@ Japanesebaby:  Call me strange, but I'd rather have the "half finished, what if it's crap" demos.  I enojoy listening to them and then compairing them to their the on album versions.  I think it's interesting to hear how a song first started out and then developed into what we know and love.

[japanesebaby]

@ Japanesebaby:  Call me strange, but I'd rather have the "half finished, what if it's crap" demos.  I enojoy listening to them and then compairing them to their the on album versions.  I think it's interesting to hear how a song first started out and then developed into what we know and love.

i don't need to call anyone strange for having a different opinion than me.
like i said, i perfectly understand your point (which is the same what brian said too). but as i said earlier, i personally just don't see this  development process with pop songs very interesting: the material on pop songs seems to be so simple anyway that the process is rarely a very elaborate one. anyway, that's just my opinion. 

and once more pro live material:

I mean, come on, what Cure fan hasn't heard most Cure songs live???

ok, i do agree that every single live version they've played is not an ass-kicking/mind-blowingly trippy experience or something.  but in general, i see more interest in looking into live versions because playing live is about recreating the song - at its best, the band is not just automatically repeating live something that they've already done in the studio, but creating the song again, recomposing it in real situation. and that's the heart of a good live performance, whether or not you can recreate your music -  because there are also a lot of bands who unfortunately can't, despite making decent albums in the studio.
AND not to mention how live versions of many songs have changed/evolved over the years: i mean, you just can't honestly say that 'faith' they played in 1981 is "the same" as 'faith' they played let's say in 2004? ot take 'the walk' from 1985 and from 2007! or ect. ect. because there's a WORLD of difference there, really.

[crowbi_wan]

Those THOTD "Casio" demos are wonderful.  One might think your dislike for them goes beyond wasted money and a want for some soundboard material.  Maybe your parents never bought you a Casio when you were a child?  All of your childhood friends must have had them. You know the ones with bosa nova and boogie woogie beats, the cheesey drum fill button, and only two octaves.  All the while you were made to sit at a real piano, forced to learn the works Chopin, Mozart, and Schumann.  Okay, I'm obviously not a shrink    

My complaint about live tracks is that one or two songs from a concert just isn't enough, even when grouped together to form a "complete" show.  For me, it's just a tease.  Of course they're nice to listen to once or twice, but in the end it only makes me want to hear the entire show (which isn't available)   Given the choice, I would MUCH rather see demos , both home and studio, as well as unreleased tracks on the bonus discs.  Robert should save the live stuff for whenever he decides to put out a back catalogue of live albums.

Well Marika, at least we can agree to disagree...     

[japanesebaby]

 

one thing that always confuses me is that when i always seem to piss people off when i think i'm only having a conversation - it  especially seems to happen when i'm thinking the conversation in progress is especially interesting and worth discussing, like here.
maybe it's the way i present myself, i don't know. so ok, now i'm a mozart-freak who wants to show off? ok, may e not what i was thinking.
sorry but i don't really agree. i don't intend to piss anyone off here.

anyway, like i already said, i don't expect people to agree with me and i'm/i was not hinting someone's right and someone's wrong.

[crowbi_wan]

one thing that always confuses me is that when i always seem to piss people off when i think i'm only having a conversation - it  especially seems to happen when i'm thinking the conversation in progress is especially interesting and worth discussing, like here.
maybe it's the way i present myself, i don't know. so ok, now i'm a mozart-freak who wants to show off? ok, may e not what i was thinking.
sorry but i don't really agree. i don't intend to piss anyone off here.

anyway, like i already said, i don't expect people to agree with me and i'm/i was not hinting someone's right and someone's wrong.

Marika, I think you misread me here, I'm not pissed off AT ALL.  That last post was just an attempt at humor.  This has turned into an interesting conversation, one that we can keep going (and it would be nice to get see some other members dropping in here).  And hey, nothing wrong with Mozart, though I prefer Tchaikovsky, Beethoven and Dvorak   

I can agree with you in that songs change over time and hearing a soundboard of that is quite nice.  However, aren't most of the live tracks that were used for the remasters from the tour supporting that album?  How much have they really changed during a few months?  Take something like Never Enough, there's a song that has gone through some serious change.  And yeah, The Walk (or pretty much any keyboard driven song) is different than it was a just a few years ago.  It takes time for these changes to occur.  So this is where I must once again disagree, because the real change 9at least in terms of staying within a period of album/tour) takes place from demo to finished product.       

   

[Lady]

Faith for me! 

I was sure about this choice!!!!!!!!!


Pornography for me! :smth001

[scatcat]

Marika, I think you misread me here, I'm not pissed off AT ALL.  That last post was just an attempt at humor.  This has turned into an interesting conversation, one that we can keep going (and it would be nice to get see some other members dropping in here).  And hey, nothing wrong with Mozart, though I prefer Tchaikovsky, Beethoven and Dvorak   
   

This is getting VERY interesting!! It is good to have differences in opinions, it sometimes makes you think a bit too... a different perspective.. it is great  !
welcome back  M! 

p.s.  I love a great "decomposing" composer.. ( as Monty Python says).. 

[iwannashagsimon]

@Japanese Baby: I completely understand your points.  As a musician you prolly notice things in live songs that are more interesting to you than studio pop songs.  And I know there are differences in the way certian songs are played live, but I just find it more interesting to hear the differences with the demos.  We each have our differnt prefernces and that's what makes Cure fans so cool.  We can like the same thing yet find so many differnt ways to enjoy them. :smth001

And don't call yourself a Mozart freak!  Wolfgang rules!

[Cure Freak]

I mean, come on, what Cure fan hasn't heard most Cure songs live???   I think they should have left out all the live recordings and added more unreleased/demo tracks.

but come on, these are soundboards.... and unreleased soundboards - ehrmm...?

maybe some more unreleased finished tracks would have been nice - but what if there weren't any?
i'd rather have more live tracks than some demos like most of those on the THEOTD which sound like they were recorded with a $2 kids' casio (=they probably even were).
the only thing that annoys me is that the live tracks are excerpts, not complete gigs... you listen to the live tracks at the end of the KMKMKM and you get SO annoyed because you realize it's all you're going to be given... gggrrr!

I have to agree. I love listening to the early live recordings. Especially, the ones on Porngraphy. As,oppose to the demos. They make the album more appealing and nostalgic feel to it, as well.

[Nicholas]

I wonder...The Top would probably have been more of a revelation or a favorite if only those demos had not been available surreptitiously for so long.  Those are pretty great versions when you think about it--Give Me It is pretty fierce, and the funk is startling on Birdmad Girl.  The version of Ariel is interesting too!

I voted for HotD but (and I know I'm going to get looks aghast) I really enjoy the instrumentals off of the Kiss Me bonus disc!

[tigermilk]

kiss me kiss me kiss me.

all good quality tracks and i love the instrumental versions

[CureCrusader]

17 seconds.



'perfect' as hero put it. old time. and real.