The Virginia Tech massacre

[Janko]

O M G !

ITS HAPPENING AGAIN!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre


WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE YOUTH TODAY?!

ITS GETTING REALLY, REALLY F**** UP!!!

I'M GUTTED!

GUTTED!

:(

[rjl]

Sad and stupid... There once was a time (that I hardly remember, as I'm not that old) where this kind of thing never happened. Now it's happening on a fairly regular basis. If it's not a school, it's a mall. If it's not a mall, it's the office park. If not that, it's somewhere else.

Scary.

[Tof]

as long as the weapons will be on sale free in the USA, there will be stupidity like that!!!

[japanesebaby]

those crazy gunlovers. :(

and it's happening everywhere, really. last year there was an incident where this disturbed student made a self-made bomb filled with metal shrapnel, put it on his back-bag and went out and set it off in a crowded supermarket not far from where i live. several people were killed and injured.
it's really scary, like people were slowly starting to lose their minds.

[Steve]

I have read all sorts of stuff on this.
It is indeed sad & yet avoidable (see Tof's comment).
Lobbyists started blaming it on violent computer games (before they new the shooter's ID )
My guess is next it'll be the parents, the music the guy listened to etc.

Virtually no-one will be brave enough to admit that the gun laws are a joke.
How easy is it for a kid to get hold of 2 (yes 2) 9mm pistols?
I don't want to assume the Michael Moore stance (as I think he is an utter a-hole to be honest)but he had some fair points after Colombine.
What has happened since to prevent something that awful ever happening again??

Still, as long as the NRA keeps lining W's pocket, then nothing will happen again.
In the UK, it's knives.
In Hungary, people don't do stuff like that to kids.

[rjl]

Hm. This will make me ultra-unpopular, but I'm firmly in the pro-gun camp. Guns have been around a lot longer than these types of massacres. Laws against guns won't do that much when you're dealing with those with the intent to kill. I mean, if you're willing to cross that line (taking a human life), any laws regarding guns, how you obtain them, and where you can and cannot take them are pretty freaking minor.

Laws restricting gun use and ownership are only going to affect those who intend to follow the law in the first place. At their most extreme, gun laws would very well keep all of the guns in the hands of criminals... A lawbreaker is a lawbreaker, and a firearms possession charge (or the chance of being nabbed for it) is pretty minor compared to, say, a massacre.

Just my view. Pile on the abuse now.     

[lostflower4]

I kind of agree with RJL's point of view. If somebody really wants a gun, they're going to find it. The same goes for drugs, or pretty much anything else that's illegal.

I wouldn't really say that I'm pro-gun either. I don't feel any burning need to protect myself that way. I'm actually kind of afraid of guns myself, hahaha.

But if somebody really wants to kill someone, they'll find a way to do it one way or another.

And I'm not saying it makes it right, but with 300+ million people living in this country, crazy things like this are going to happen here more often than in most other places...

The bottom line for me is, there's too many lunatics in this fucked up world! :twisted:

[Lady]

It's a tragedy!
I'm really sorry for those students and their families!

[Janko]

ESSENTIAL STUFF:


FOR GUN CONTROL:

MICHAEL MOORE : "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE"

PLENTY OF FACTS, TOO MUCH EMOTIONS, GREAT MOVIE!

---------

AGAINST GUN CONTROL:

PENN AND TELLER: BULLSHIT! "GUNCONTROL EPISODE"

PLENTY OF DRY FACTS, NO EMOTIOS, HILARIOUS!


---------

SO THERE ARE PROS AND CONS OF GUN CONTROL AND IN THE END IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT KILL PEOPLE (THEY PULL THE TRIGGERS)...

I THINK THE MAIN CONCERN IS THE POOR PSYCHOLOGYCAL CONDITION OF THE YOUTH TODAY!

THAT SOUTH KOREAN KID HAD TO BE PRETTY DISTURBED TO DO WHAT HE DID
BUT THEN AGAIN HE DID IT PRETTY METHODICALLY AND RATIONALY (32 KILLS!!!)AS IF HE HAD SOME SORT OF TRAINING...

COMPLEX STUFF...

[rjl]

That's precisely it. As I said before, this is a newer phenomenon than firearms, which make it scarier, as that can be ruled out as a cause. I admit that they play a prominent role in these tragedies, but don't explain why this happens / how we got to this sick/sad/scary point.

It can't be entirely hopelessness, despair, anger, vengeance, depression or any other human emotion that's been around since the dawn of time, either. Again, it's part of it, but not the whole picture.

So who knows?

Unfortunately, there's no real going back from this. It's bound to happen and happen and happen. 

(Or worse, we'll always have somewhere, deep in the back of our minds, the knowledge that it could happen, anywhere.)

[splitmilk34]

This was a very sick event... very very sick.  I don't think it boils down to gun control - this has to do with the way it's become almost acceptable and expected for someone to go off the deep end and start shooting co-workers or fellow students.  It's really a ridiculous cultural phenomenon, and for the life of me I'll never understand how that makes sense for people.  The worst part is, outside of the person committing the act we don't know who to blame.  Is it the media?  Videogames?  Music?  I'm a believer that none of these things can make a person into a sociopath, but they certainly don't help dissuade them.  There is a very disturbing trend in our society where the #1 movies are those about torture, horror, violence and exploitation.  How is it enjoyable to watch people's bodies (fake or not) have organs and innards removed, or to be sliced or mutilated?  Granted, violence can be very harrowing and riveting (and almost necessary if done correctly in the right context), but this stuff is pornography at it's very worst.  We are taught to be embarrassed by sexuality (especially homosexuality), and ratings in all media outlets are very strict about nudity.  Yet we continue to show the most vile scenes of inexplicable violence without a blink of an eye - and people eat it up.
If you ask me we should blame society as a whole for this disgusting f*cking behavior.  I'm all for free speech, and would be a hypocrite if I said "Stop making movies with violence" because I don't believe in regulated censorship - however, we can't expect to keep churning this shit out and not have it effect people.  Most of these movies (and music, and videogames, and etc) are not forms of "high concept art"... they are, like I said, mere exploitations - pornography with no point.  Gross for the sake of gross.  Until people start caring about their output (and not the profit) then we're all headed down a very slippery slope - one that nurtures and shelters are worst fears and desires.  One that uses psychology and medicine as a means for excusing bad behavior.
I fear the worst of it has yet to come.

[Steve]

One interesting notion I have had.
There is a body of people who "kindly" censor everything we watch or are exposed to.
These people must see the worst of the worst.
Why do they censor ruthlessly?
I guess their retort would be that it encourages events just like that on Monday.
However, does this mean that this body of people are the most dangerous people alive?
So, that puts a fecking great hole in the media argument etc.
So, what's next?
Aaah. Parents yes?
But, in this case were are not talking about minors (the guy was 23) & so we are talking about someone considered old enough to know right from wrong.
So, "parents" argument out of the frame?
What's left?
I still go with the gun laws/rights.
I have split up with girlfriends, but never got as far as gunning them & their new bf down in the classroom!
I may have felt like it, but the gun laws were so strict, that it wasn't worth even contemplating doing.
However, if the laws had been as lax as those in the US ( & I could simply buy a gun in the local supermarket), it may have been different (but I like to think I am a bit more tolerant).
If you put the option there, it will, at some point, be "opted for". IF IT CAN  HAPPEN, IT WILL HAPPEN.
It is like the old big red button, with "do not press" written on it.
I bet almost every one of you would consider pressing it at least.

[rjl]

In all fairness, the gun laws are not that lax, and again, only affect those who attempt to purchase guns legally. If anything, it will drive a certain percentage of the gun trade underground (where there is no waiting period, no background check and no certification required), leaving guns, again, solely in the hands of criminals...

...and the criminals aren't giving them up any time soon (even if the mayor of Boston offers them a $200 gift card in exchange. Dummy.). The only way those guns make it off of the streets is when they are used, and either dumped somewhere, or the perpetrator gets caught, most likely after shooting or robbing someone...

...and how perfect would it be for the gun-toting criminals to know, with near-perfect knowledge, that the law-abiding suburban home that they are planning to break into is firearm-free?

Back to the VA case, I've been thinking on it more and more, and the only piece of the puzzle that I could think of, something that hasn't been around as long as human emotion and firearms, and almost as long as these massacres, is antidepressant medication.

Now, I am not some anti-medication Scientologist by any means, and I'm not even sure that the VA gunman was on anything (I tend to avoid the news past the major headlines these days), but that seems to be a common thread between more than a handful of these killings, from Columbine onward.

I mean, we're still not 100% clear as to how some of these medications affect the (insanely complex, and individually-wired via experience) human brain. And yes, they typically help people, or at the very least don't lead them to violent decisions, but who is to say that they may have helped some troubled individual cross a line they normally would not have?

Again, I'm not blaming medication at all. It's just one of the most recent factors in a lot of these tragic, awful incidents.

[Steve]

Good point Rich. & who knows what is in our food these days too?

But, the guns thing takes us to a catch 22 situation right?
eg.
Homes/ folks don't have fire-arms & so less force is needed to rob them (ie, less reliance on fire-arms)& thus, less serious injury/ death.

Again, if the crims are the only people in possession of such fire-arms, then (assuming that honest people are in the majority  ) this should limit the number of guns around (eaiser to police then).
Is the mayor really offering a $200 gift voucher gun amnesty? 
We have words for morons like that, but they get censored from open forums. Use your imagination folks.

[dsanchez]

A few months ago there was a project in the peruvian congress to allow anyone to use guns. I am glad it didn't work.

In despite the mental sickness of the gun-man, the possibility to get weapons in the US so easy as vegetables it's, in my personal view, a big problem.

I just try to picture the gun-man from Virginia. He killed 32 people meaning he had at least 70 bullets. He also had two guns!. If getting guns in the US was a bit harder, I'm very sure we wouldn't be talking now about a huge masacre. Maybe a homicide, yes, but not from more than 30 persons.

I don't live in the US but I have some friends there and many of the Curefans.com members are from there and so I'm concerned. If it was in my hands, I would start to delete such law about getting guns. You can't put guns so easily in hands of everyone, because some of this "everyone" will may be a mental sick.