Recode 2 and Dvd Shrink (a personal opinion)

Started by bluewater, January 08, 2007, 16:03:49

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bluewater

i know i'm crazy but i can't see any difference between recode 2 at 90% and a 5+ gb dvd-9
Since i'm crazy i should be seeing differences

Dvd shrink doesn't make me crazy because i can see the difference between dvd shrink at 95 % and
a 5gb dvd-9

I have glasses and expensive displays and there's nothing wrong with the gear used but
i just can't help feeling crazy because of recode 2.

So I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU USE RECODE 2!!!

and even less i recommend dvd shrink because it destroys dvd structure and
chapters and picture

Bluewatr
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

lostflower4

Hmmmm...

I can see a difference between a DV AVI file (25 Mbps) and an MPEG-2 file made directly from it (8 Mbps)...

MPEG-2 is never perfect, so it should NEVER be re-encoded if at all possible. Even if you re-encode something at "100%" with a $2000 encoding program (which is surely not DVDShrink or Recode), it's still going to be lower quality than the original.

I spend enough time stressing over encoding files for the first time, so I just don't understand how people can re-encode stuff and not think twice about it. :smth011

bluewater

 :-D

Ok.  :smth023. Neither do i like recode 2, anymore.  :smth011
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

bluewater

they´ve done research. and they use psychological make-up to hide the digital encoding artifacts. Trust me. i know.  :evil:
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

lostflower4

Quote from: bluewater on January 09, 2007, 14:32:34
they´ve done research. and they use psychological make-up to hide the digital encoding artifacts. Trust me. i know.  :evil:

Yeah, it's called "blur". You can hide a lot of stuff when you do that. :cry:

In a more extreme example, I can hide any flaw in any video by turning the brightness down enough. :lol:

japanesebaby

Quote from: lostflower4 on January 10, 2007, 00:07:26
Quote from: bluewater on January 09, 2007, 14:32:34
they´ve done research. and they use psychological make-up to hide the digital encoding artifacts. Trust me. i know.  :evil:

Yeah, it's called "blur". You can hide a lot of stuff when you do that. :cry:

In a more extreme example, I can hide any flaw in any video by turning the brightness down enough. :lol:


oh yes, how many times it's been seen on some video forums that someone asks tools/tips for reducing picture noise and some moron cheerfully suggests: "just add some gaussian blur, that's what i always do! it's great!"
my god...!
so yes, let's just turn the whole brightness down, it's just too sad to be watched sometimes.


and it's ranting but here's another recent lineage favorite:

it all started with

Lineage: DVB rip using standalone Pioneer DVD Recorder > DVDr > DIME > you
(Transfer: DVDr > DVD Shrink)

so it was already DVDshrinked (=DVDdestroyed) once before it was seeded on Dime...  :cry:
and then after some time the same dvd sowed up on this other tracker but the file size was different - and it turned out that some other dude had took the dime version and re-encoded it once more in order to convert it from PAL to NTSC... :cry:
the original file size in PAL was 3.61 GBs, the NTSC re-encoded version was 2.41 GBs... 


(and ok, i know it's annoying that we must have different systems like PAL and NTSC, it would be much better if there was just one. and i also must count myself lucky that NTSC discs play nicely on PAL players so i don't need to worry about it. people with NTSC players can't handle PAL that easily. but however, it's not some sort of freaking solution that people with NTSC players just go and re-encode every PAL dvd they get and thus put these maimed versions into circulation. because they could still go and buy a goddamn PAL compliant dvd player - if you want to play PAL then get the right equipment, that's it.
or otherwise just stop d.loading/trading anything that's not NTSC compliant. :!: )
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

Quote from: japanesebaby link=topic=3217.msg19779#msg19779they could still go and buy a goddamn PAL compliant dvd player. or otherwise just stop d.loading/trading anything that's not NTSC compliant.  :!: )

I just got on of these goddamn multisystem players yesterday. :-D
One of the best things I ever purchased â€" sure beats watching everything on a computer! :rocker

And just to make another point about how I can't believe any re-encoding program does a good job...

Let's just say I have a typical 2 hour and 40 minute live Cure videotape and I want to make a DVD of it. I'm sorry, but it's impossible to make this look right on a single DVD. And I'm talking about starting with a raw AVI file and manually encoding it to MPEG-2 later. Yes, you can half the resolution and half the bitrate and see what you can squeeze out of it. That can look "ok" sometimes, but it's still clearly ruining the picture.

And I'm not using some monkey-retard encoding programs here either. I'm using one known for being the most artifact-free one out there, yet it's just impossible to "shrink" something beyond a certain point, even if you're encoding for the first time.

I was just encoding a video like this the other week. 2 hours and 39 minutes â€" a 2 DVD set. I wanted to keep the audio lossless, so I cut the video bitrate a little bit more than I normally would. I encoded it in 3-pass variable bitrate mode (note that this takes about 10 hours on a fast machine!), and there were still some macroblocks in the extreme high motion scenes. I reluncantly had to do it all over again, this time using a higher video bitrate and making the audio Dolby 448. :?

Some 10 hours later, I had a rather nice looking MPEG-2 file. 8)

All I can say is that if anyone re-encoded this video with DVD Shrink, it would look like a f*cking puzzle. So why do people use this? :smth011






bluewater

Everyone can use Dvd decrypter and it´s free. So where does one need Dvd Shrink
or Recode 2 if one´s not crazy and needs a "shrink" to free some aggressions by
destroying dvd or something.

Here´s a link to dvd decrypter that does an identical rip without encoding
or anything.

http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/DVD_Decrypter/1011845169/1

Press "R" in the program and select "iso" mode if you wish to rip a dvd,
press "W" in the program if you want to burn the iso - image, so you
don´t need Nero at all.

Happy ripping!

Quote from: japanesebaby on January 10, 2007, 09:41:40

and it's ranting but here's another recent lineage favorite:

it all started with

Lineage: DVB rip using standalone Pioneer DVD Recorder > DVDr > DIME > you
(Transfer: DVDr > DVD Shrink)

so it was already DVDshrinked (=DVDdestroyed) once before it was seeded on Dime...  :cry:
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

lostflower4

DVD Decrypter is pretty cool, and I still use it... But it's becoming out of date. It's no longer made, as one of the major movie industry companies bought it out and made it illegal to distribute. :smth076

It doesn't handle the latest copy-protection schemes (such as new Sony releases). I think the most up-to-date program out there now is DVDFab. It's kind of slow, so I still use DVD Decrypter first, and if it doesn't work... DVDFab will do the trick. ;)

DVDFab Platinum can also do a nice job of splitting a dual-layer disc in two, and without screwing up the menu/chapter structure. So there's really no excuse for things like DVD Shrink or Recode. 8)

bluewater

Quote from: lostflower4 on January 10, 2007, 20:06:56
So there's really no excuse for things like DVD Shrink or Recode. 8)

Exactly. The only excuse is if someone wants to be crazy or aggressive with dvd´s and
therefore use these "shrinks" as a help.

-bluewater
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

Oso Blanco

I don't understand what's wrong with DVD Shrink. I think it comes in pretty handy when you want to copy a movie and you don't want to buy dual layer discs. Plus, you can delete those annoying menues and all the languages that you won't need anyway. By doing so, you can achieve a 80-90 % shrink rate, which is good enough for me. I mean, I don't see any difference at all to the original.

Of course, if you want it lossless for collection purposes, you shouldn't shrink the original. You can copy DVDs with DVD Shrink without shrinking them at all.

But if I make myself a copy of some movie that I'm only gonna watch once or twice, I really don't care if it's lossless or not.
Time is the fire in which we burn ...

slit-the-cats-like-cheese

Quote from: Oso Blanco on March 03, 2007, 18:48:28
But if I make myself a copy of some movie that I'm only gonna watch once or twice, I really don't care if it's lossless or not.

yes is maybe not problem if used in personal copies like this you say, but people use all the time to make trade dvds and that is not good! it is just the same like some stupid people who use standalone dvd recorders to copy their dvds for trade - this is awful because it is not about making exact copy of your dvd but you reencoding it and make it worse and then send this worse version to someone as a trade dvd. same thing with torrent: on torrent people always use this unnecessary programs and then upload these worse quality copies and put them to circulating!
like example: there is some good quality 2 dvd version of some show, it is 2 dvds for reasons: reason is because quality is much better without compression. but people put this to DVDshrink and make it a nice version where the image is suddenly blocky and bad although it was good on 2 dvd version. they still say it's a good version because it is so nice to have on one disc only - why someone make trouble and make good 2 dvd version with clear image if someone else comes and destroyes this good work with DVDshrink? and then people start circulating this bad version and call it still the same as original 2 dvds version. this is complete hopeless and makes you depressed to receive dvd like this in trade or download it from torrent. it is disappointing for every one. so it would be much better if peple not use this shrink-program.
or ok if you make only a copy for yourself with such program but don't let this copy ever leave your house!!!
also, too many people don't know that it is complete possible to reauthoring a dvd without using such a silly program that everytime reencode and recompress all and they don't realize this and they use it everytime even when no compressioon is needed. so i agree this is real problem with some people who not know how to use this program. just like standalone copying.
thanks.

Oso Blanco

Just to make sure I understand you: You mean, that DVD Shrink re-encodes the DVD even if I chose not to compress anything at all? If I only drop the menues and some language tracks, the DVD will not be re-encoded or will it?
Time is the fire in which we burn ...

lostflower4

Quote from: Oso Blanco on March 04, 2007, 08:36:24
Just to make sure I understand you: You mean, that DVD Shrink re-encodes the DVD even if I chose not to compress anything at all? If I only drop the menues and some language tracks, the DVD will not be re-encoded or will it?

I'm not sure exactly how it works. I've never used it before, but I've seen first-hand the terror this program reigns on the trading community. There are much better programs to use for re-making a DVD without re-encoding things (VobBlanker or DVD Rebuilder, for example).

P.S. Dual/double-layer discs are finally starting to get cheaper. :D

slit-the-cats-like-cheese

Quote from: Oso Blanco on March 04, 2007, 08:36:24
Just to make sure I understand you: You mean, that DVD Shrink re-encodes the DVD even if I chose not to compress anything at all? If I only drop the menues and some language tracks, the DVD will not be re-encoded or will it?

i never use this program myself because i cannot think any way i need it (there are better program available for anything DVDshrink ever do). so i don't know what option list says. but i see how bad quality it can produce (because i have compare original and DVDshrink-made version). i have received too many of this kind of dvd in trade and it is so disappointing.
for instance, i know some people always use its re-encoding optiont to fixing aspect ratio which is complete insane choice of program!! you can fix ratio very easily with some other program and it not need eventhink about re-encode. 

about to choose not to compress: like i say, it is sad that many people simply not know how to use any program like this, sorry to saying this but it is true.i know some other program too has option not to reencoding/not to compress but even with this option available some people not realize to choose this but always make everything thorugh compressing again. i know this because i have seen people not to care at all. and dvds this way produce are complete more bad than original. just like standalone copying like i say.

and to shrinking 2 dvd set to 1 dvd and then trading it or torrent it: this is always complete bad thing to do. i don't think there is no excuses for it that can be found. because you can not put 2 dvd on 1 dvd without re-encode with low bitrate no? or same with dual-disc: if you want putting it on 1 ordinary dvd (like if you not have dual-disc burning possible) then you always must reencode it, isn't it yes? so it does not matter if your shrink program has an option not-to-shrink, you cannot use this option anyway in this case. but still people using it (although they should using their brain). and this 2dvd>1dvd action it is always complete insane thing, it only destroyes some other people's work who tried to make a good quality 2 dvd show.
so, do it in your house if you want but don't infesting the worl with it.
thanks