Boys Don't Cry & Keyboards

Started by nausearockpig, May 19, 2007, 07:43:44

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nausearockpig

I have just now finished watching the TV show appearances of The Cure on the 19th and 22nd of October 2004 and have come to the realisation that Boys Don't Cry should not ever have keyboard parts added to it. The song should only be a guitar song..

Roger should have either sat down and had a beer when this some came on and let the other guys bash the song out or picked up an acoustic guitar to play the rhythm chords. I assume he can play guitar..

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Roger, his playing or keyboard parts in general where they are a part of the song, but why add them in if they weren't there to start with???

splitmilk34

Just a reinterpretation, I guess.  But I agree... nothing about Boys Don't Cry needs a keyboard bit, and since a 6-year old can learn the basic rhythm chords to it I don't see a reason why Roger couldn't have done just that... especially since he was already playing the harmonic bit on "Open". 
The only song on Three Imaginary Boys that you could make a case for keyboards is the title track, and that's pushing it.  I'm sure he just wanted something to do, though.
"... sleeping less every night"

Janko

Quote from: nausearockpig on May 19, 2007, 07:43:44
... and have come to the realisation that Boys Don't Cry should not ever have keyboard parts added to it. The song should only be a guitar song..

WELL... IT'S NOT THAT CRUCIAL IF THE SONG HAS KEYS OR NOT... IT SHOULDNT HAVE SECOND GUITAR ALSO...
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

strange_day

Ah, maybe Roger got a bit fed up with the tambourine?  :-D
Although when i saw them in 2004 he used it in BDC, he kept walking around onstage laughing at it and then at the end he came over to Robert's mic to shake it into that....

I think that was better than putting loads of keyboards in it, its a punky song, so its better with guitars really....

nausearockpig

Quote from: Janko on May 19, 2007, 19:16:18
... IT SHOULDNT HAVE SECOND GUITAR ALSO...

I see what you're saying but I disagree as I don't believe that in this instance the extra KB would to the same as an extra guitar.

I think that if Robert was playing the rhythm chords on a twelve-string acoustic [as he used to] and Roger were to play the same chords [perhaps strummed to a slightly different rhythm while still maintaining the original feel of the chords] on say a Fender Tele or similar guitar then he would simply be adding depth to the rhythm "sound" of the song, not adding in a keyboard version of either the chords or the "lead" as he had done in the past...

japanesebaby

Quote from: strange_day on May 20, 2007, 04:38:37
Ah, maybe Roger got a bit fed up with the tambourine?  :-D
Although when i saw them in 2004 he used it in BDC, he kept walking around onstage laughing at it and then at the end he came over to Robert's mic to shake it into that....

I think that was better than putting loads of keyboards in it, its a punky song, so its better with guitars really....

hi guys...
i think it's musically better without keyboards, that's for sure. i don't see why every single cure song should have keyboards just because "keyboards are so essential to cure's sound" or something - it completely depends on the song in question.
and yet imo, roger & his tambourine easily count among the most embarrassing moments in cure history.
for instance in 2000, when they played BDC roger was swinging the tambourine all the time - and yes, he also used to come and shook it to robert's mic - oh how very "funny" of him.  :oops: :oops: :oops:
some instances were really really embarrassing, like werchter 2000.

the pic's from firenze, though:


:roll:
i truly do hope that i don't have to see it ever again and i just don't get what robert was thinking when he let him do that on stage. :roll:
i mean, why on earth roger couldn't just do nothing at all? the song needs no keyboards and certainly not some freaking useless tambourine...
if you don't have anything to play in this or that particular song... then hey don't play anything!

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

lostflower4

Quote from: Janko on May 19, 2007, 19:16:18WELL... IT'S NOT THAT CRUCIAL IF THE SONG HAS KEYS OR NOT... IT SHOULDNT HAVE SECOND GUITAR ALSO...

Huh? This is a two-guitar song. Listen to the original!

Yes, I know Roger was over the top in adding keyboards to everything (Club America, Never Enough :twisted:), but even the '85-86 live versions of Boys Don't Cry had some keyboards.

Most of the time you could barely hear them (I think they're completely muted on "In Orange"). But it didn't really sound that bad. I have to say that Lol and Perry were really good at just staying in the background when they didn't have any parts to play. But Roger *always* had to put himself up front. :roll:

splitmilk34

Yeah, this is definitely a two-guitar song... one needs to play the rhythm and the other the lead.  I don't know how you could even make an argument for just one guitar. 
I think we can all agree that Roger always wanted more of a role - which is understandable, he's a very talented pianist/composer - but you can't just walk all over a song because your part isn't "upfront" enough... There are things called dynamics that I believe were completely cast aside during performances of the songs Caley mentioned - actually makes sense how Robert came to the decision to scale back the keyboards a bit.  He probably was aggravated with having to "fit everyone in" and wanted to go back to a fairly strict twin-guitar attack.
"... sleeping less every night"

Janko

ONE GUITAR...

WELL, ITS NOT A TWO GUITAR SONG IF ONE OF THE GUITARS PLAYS THE SAME STUFF AS BASS!

THE CURE HAD ONLY ONE GUITAR AT THE TIME (1978 - 1984), SO...

IT'S DIFFERENT STUFF IN STUDIO RECORDING.

:smth023
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

nausearockpig

for the record: I was talking about the song only having "one guitar" meaning that the KBs shouldn't mimic what that guitar does. whether it's the rhythm or lead is irrelevant.. i guess i worded it badly. it's a two gee-tar song but i don't believe that any of those guitars need a keyboard to follow them...

splitmilk34

Well... now I'm putting my vote in for seven guitars  :shock:, all playing rhythm and three sets of drums.  :rocker

"... sleeping less every night"

nausearockpig

as long as I'm one of those guitarists, I heartily agree!!!

:rocker that's me rocking between guitar parts by the way...

japanesebaby

no you're all wrong, it's supposed to be a three-guitar song.
just ask ray!  :lol:



(perry's there too although he can't be seen in the pic)

or should i say: two guitars and a tambourine?



:smth011

i agree about roger being too eager to be everywhere. if the band has two guitars AND keyboards, everyone needs to know their place and sometimes give room to others, otherwise the arrangements won't work. it easily becomes too crowded, too stuffed up.
very often a good arrangement means good spacing between the voices/parts - there has to be some air between the actual written parts, between the individual instruments/parts/voices. otherwise they are just bound to interfere each other and make it messy.
whereas roger definitely was and is a good instrumentalist, no doubt about it, he often seemed to lack this ability. he was too much trying to fill in all the "empty spaces in the musical space/tissue/what-would-one-call-it" and imo that's not what you should do. especially if the band already has two guitars.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Janko

Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

Oso Blanco

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 22, 2007, 08:04:01
everyone needs to know their place and sometimes give room to others, otherwise the arrangements won't work. it easily becomes too crowded, too stuffed up.

Which happened everytime they had three guitars playing on stage. The sound was so horribly messed up that you just couldn't tell all the guitars apart, it was just noise. Sometimes, even two guitars are too much. I don't now why other bands don't seem to have a problem with that, maybe The Cure just need a capable sound engineer.
Time is the fire in which we burn ...