4Tour - your thoughts after the european tour?

[sullen]

i really can't understand what's happening with them.
this is really a disappointing setlist, because , as gioez said, there were a lot of "special" things yesterday night.

but "they went away with nothing" more than the same setlist they played over and over again this tour.

... they've never been like this.
so static.

So, just like in 82 then right.
The setlists then were't really that varied TBH.

((With all due respect to people who think the setlists are great))

1982.
Perhaps not night by night.
Were talking years in this case.

Even in 82, the setlists were varied from 81, 80, 79
varied again in 83 onto 84,85,86 and so on.

Okay, so there were other tours, where the setlists weren't varied, sure.
It's happened and that is understandable.

They also did not have the massive back catalog in 1987 in which they do now.
They have no keyboards, but they have proved they can pull off many songs with Porl and backing tapes.

There are really no excuses for playing the same basic setlist for the past 3 years.
And that is something in which they have NEVER done.

A big thing, is that what is going on right now, for three years, that the setlist has been almost the SAME thing.
The same basic mainset, varied ever so slightly.
The same basic encores, varied even less.

I know that it is a very different experience reading the set on paper and seeing it live.
Sure it's still a good time hearing these songs.
I saw them in 05, was at RAH, did Mexico x 3 in 07, and Berlin this year.

Loved every minute of it.
BUT
It's getting stale and old.

People dedicate so much time and money following this band around the world.
Seeing a varied set each night has always been a big thing in making it worthwhile for us to dedicate many months of our life and many thousands of our dollars to do this.

It's to the point now where it dosen't even seem worth it anymore.

I really had hope for 2008 with the varied Mexico setlists that had suprises each night.
Now half the tour has come and gone, they did not play most suprises, took out some great songs (big hand, etc)
And things seem as if they took a step backwards...


It's getting old, alot of people are not happy.


Over and over and over again..............

20.08.2005 Taormina - Teatro Antico (Italy)  'Taormina Arte'more infos
open, fascination street, a strange day, alt.end, the blood, the end of the world, shake dog shake, us or them, a night like this, push, just like heaven, a letter to elise, lullaby, never enough, the figurehead, from the edge of the deep green sea, signal to noise, the baby screams, one hundred years, shiver and shake, end,
E1: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E2: if only tonight we could sleep, the kiss,
E3: inbetween days, friday i'm in love, boys don't cry,
E4: faith, three imaginary boys, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab


01.04.2006 London - Royal Albert Hall (England)  'Teenage Cancer Trust Concerts'more infos
open, fascination street, alt.end, the blood, a night like this, the end of the world, play for today, if only tonight we could sleep..., the kiss, shake dog shake, us or them, never enough, signal to noise, the figurehead, a strange day, push, inbetween days, just like heaven, from the edge of the deep green sea, at night, the drowning man, m, the baby screams, one hundred years, shiver and shake, end,
E1: lullaby, hot hot hot!!!, let's go to bed, friday i'm in love, why can't i be you?,
E2: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,
E3: boys don't cry, a forest


09.08.2007 Sydney - Sydney Entertainment Centre (Australia/NSW)more infos
open, fascination street, alt.end, a night like this, the walk, the end of the world, lovesong, the big hand, pictures of you, lullaby, catch, hot hot hot, the blood, push, inbetween days, just like heaven, primary, us or them, never enough, from the edge of the deep green sea, a strange day, wrong number, the baby screams, one hundred years, end,
E1: let's go to bed, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E2: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E3: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab


12.03.2008 Paris - Palais Omnisport de Paris Bercy (France)more infos
plainsong, prayers for rain, a strange day, alt.end, the walk, the end of the world, lovesong, to wish impossible things, pictures of you, lullaby, from the edge of the deep green sea, kyoto song, please project, push, how beautiful you are..., friday i'm in love, inbetween days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, shake dog shake, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, disintegration,
E1: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E2: the lovecats, let's go to bed, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E3: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,
E4: faith

It's really not very different.

Compare any other three year period.
Things do not look the same.

New record or not.
The amount of material this band has written in the past 30 years, does not need a new record to have a greatly varied setlist for the next 20 years.


Sorry.
I have never felt this way in my 16 years as a fan and in my 12 years of following them around the world.
Nor have I ever wanted to or in my strangest nightmares thought I ever would.

Perhaps North America 2008, or 2009 will prove me wrong.
I certainly hope so...

[slit-the-cats-like-cheese]

It now all depend on how is new album.
Very important album for the Cure! :!:

[crowbi_wan]

I really enjoyed the energy and vibe from the two Euro shows I went to, but was disappointed with such a similar set.  Just throwing in a few changes in place of the old standards makes such a huge difference.  Robert knows that several fans attend more than one show, so why not appeal to both types of fans?  I mean he could keep the same basic structure of the setlist, just rotate To Wish Impossible Things, The Big Hand, and A letter to Elise after Lovesong.  Before FTEOTDGS he could throw in Figurehead and then play Hanging Garden during the latter part of the set if he feels like featuring the Porno stuff.  If It's a HOTD night, Kyoto Song and Baby Screams (or occasionally The Blood).  KMKMKM could work with several variations using How Beautiful You Are, Catch, Torture, Shiver and Shake, as well as the combo of If Only and The kiss (either in the set or as an encore).  Of course there's the Faith stuff, too, but I think we'd all love to hear the four songs as an encore.  Still, seeing Other Voices or Drowning Man in the main set every now and then would be nice.  Doing The Unstuck and Want are two tracks I'd love to see get thrown in the mix as well.  Leave out FIIL some nights and play Unstuck.  Not sure where Want would fit in, but surely there's a spot for it.  I'm not a big fan of Club America, but for variation, why not play it again?  Robert just seems to want to be some pop star these days and is having too much fun acting the part.  He needs to get it in his head that there's a way to achieve that and still remain true to the other side of The Cure.   

Here's five sets, keeping the same basic structure they've been using with enough variation from night to night to please most (I think?).  Why couldn't they just do a rotation of something like this?...

open, fascination street, alt.end, the baby screams, a night like this, the end of the world, lovesong, a letter to elise, pictures of you, lullaby, from the edge of the deep green sea, kyoto song, please project, the walk, push, in between days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, us or them, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, disintegration,
E1: if only tonight we could sleep, the kiss
E2: let's go to bed, friday I'm in love, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E3: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,

plainsong, prayers for rain, a strange day, alt.end, the blood, the end of the world, lovesong, the big hand, pictures of you, lullaby, the figurehead, from the edge of the deep green sea, please project, push, in between days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, shake dog shake, never enough, wrong number, the hanging garden, one hundred years, disintegration,
E1: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E2: the lovecats, let's go to bed, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E3: the holy hour, other voices, the drowning man, faith

plainsong, prayers for rain, alt.end, a night like this, the walk, the end of the world, lovesong, pictures of you, lullaby, the drowning man, from the edge of the deep green sea, please project, push, doing the unstuck, in between days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, if only tonight we could sleep, the kiss, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, disintegration
E1: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,
E2: let's go to bed, friday i'm in love, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E3: play for today, a forest

plainsong, prayers for rain, fascination street, alt.end, torture, the end of the world, lovesong, catch, pictures of you, lullaby, from the edge of the deep green sea, maybe someday, hot hot hot, please project, push, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, other voices, want, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, disintegration
E1: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E2: friday i'm in love, in between days, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?, 
E3: boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab 

plainsong, prayers for rain, a strange day, alt.end, the walk, the end of the world, lovesong, to wish impossible things, pictures of you, lullaby, from the edge of the deep green sea, friday i'm in love, please project, push, how beautiful you are..., in between days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, shiver and shake, disintegration,
E1: the lovecats, let's go to bed, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E2: boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,
E3: faith, a forest

A handful of songs this line-up has played didn't even get listed there.  There's just way too many possibilities for Robert to keep the same 30 songs in every night and only rotate in and out 5.   

[carycameron]

((With all due respect to people who think the setlists are great))

Over and over and over again..............

12.03.2008 Paris - Palais Omnisport de Paris Bercy (France)more infos
plainsong, prayers for rain, a strange day, alt.end, the walk, the end of the world, lovesong, to wish impossible things, pictures of you, lullaby, from the edge of the deep green sea, kyoto song, please project, push, how beautiful you are..., friday i'm in love, inbetween days, just like heaven, primary, a boy i never knew, shake dog shake, never enough, wrong number, one hundred years, disintegration,
E1: at night, m, play for today, a forest,
E2: the lovecats, let's go to bed, freak show, close to me, why can't i be you?,
E3: three imaginary boys, fire in cairo, boys don't cry, jumping someone else's train, grinding halt, 10:15 saturday night, killing an arab,
E4: faith

It's really not very different.




The setlists in Europe 2008 were mostly identical and that they didn't introduce any more new song or bring back more rare songs was disappointing.
But i feel the setlists were better than 2005, while 2006 only had one show,  and this tour is basically a continuation of the 2007 tour.

Maybe Paris is not a good example because it probably had the best setlist
and they did perform The Walk, Lovecats, Close to Me, To Wish Impossible Things, How Beautiful you Are, Prayers for Rain, Freak Show, Please Project, A Boy I Never Knew, Wrong Number, Kyoto Song, Jumping Someone else's train which were not played in 2005/06   as well as Plainsong/Disintegration which was only performed once in 05....

[sullen]

Saw today the figure of the songs of this tour.
58 songs played over 22 dates.

Dug out my notes from Mexico 07.
69 songs played over 3 dates.

And mind you, it was 6 months ago, that 11 more songs were played...

[nevyn]

But these were 3 special nights. They wanted to make it even more special.

Bear in mind, that Depeche Mode for instance, have even lower song rotation rate...

I really don't think that the setlist is the most important. The atmosphere of conceert is important also, and during 5 gigs I attended it was great...

[japanesebaby]

Bear in mind, that Depeche Mode for instance, have even lower song rotation rate...

a good point.
there are so many other bands (and even good bands!) that do max 90 minnute shows and almost always (and i mean always) play the exact same set in concert of the tour.


a practical tip: if you're so very much bothered about setlists being too much alike, then maybe go see only one or two shows. don't even plan going to see any more, if you're  already so annoyed by this setlist detail in advance. and that way you might end up seeing one really good show and being able to really enjoy it.

i think the "setlist problem" only really affects fans that are going to see like 5-10 shows or even more - then the possibility that it might start to bother you that you hear the same songs over and over again BUT maybe then you have to blame it on yourself too. after all, who told you to go see so many shows? nobody did. because whatever we might want for ourselves (i for instance would have wanted 'other voices' and 'a short term effect' and a couple of other things - i didn't go there to listen to 'just like heaven' in rotation), we still have to remember that most concert-goers still do go to see only one show anyway. die-hard fans like many of us here are still a minority there, i'm afraid - so if our voice doesn't always get heard, it doesn't need to be something outrageous. and so whatever "10+ members" might think, the band does have to consider those people too. otherwise there would be a lot more people complaining that they didn't play and they didn't play that than there are now. maybe robert &co. doen't think "oh i really need to change this setlist more often because all these crazy die-hard people are going to follow me and see 12 shows in a row, i really need to think of them" when they design the setlists - and we can't really accuse them for anything if they don't.

so considering all this, the fact that setlists aren't extremely imaginative does not mean the band is dead or bored or something like it. maybe it's the fan(s) who might be (bored or in crisis), but imo one really blame it on the band or jump into conclusions that there was some kind of a major crisis going on there with the band or that it necessarily was some kind of a sign of things going downhill etc.

[crowbi_wan]

Like I said above...

Just throwing in a few changes in place of the old standards makes such a huge difference. 

I'm not requesting some huge change, just mixing up the rotation a bit more is all I ask.

a practical tip: if you're so very much bothered about setlists being too much alike, then maybe go see only one or two shows. don't even plan going to see any more, if you're  already so annoyed by this setlist detail in advance.

But then one might not get to see the songs they'd like.  If you only go to one or two shows the chance of hearing this kiss, the baby screams, the holy hour, other voices, faith, the big hand, the figurehead, forever, the hanging garden, doing the unstuck, torture, and other rarely played songs is pretty unlikely.  I'd consider myself VERY lucky if the one show I selected had all of those songs on the setlist. 

Look, I'll enjoy the shows I'll be seeing regardless of the setlist.  Some will be better than others and not just for the setlist.  I just wish Robert would leave off a few songs that make it on every night and put in a few that don't, that's all.           

[japanesebaby]

a practical tip: if you're so very much bothered about setlists being too much alike, then maybe go see only one or two shows. don't even plan going to see any more, if you're  already so annoyed by this setlist detail in advance.

But then one might not get to see the songs they'd like.  If you only go to one or two shows the chance of hearing this kiss, the baby screams, the holy hour, other voices, faith, the big hand, the figurehead, forever, the hanging garden, doing the unstuck, torture, and other rarely played songs is pretty unlikely.

yes of course it is, i'm well aware of that. but what i meant was that the options are these:
either you go to a lot of shows (for instance hoping to hear all those songs you mentioned) BUT then you WILL get a lot of repetition too - and you shoulnd't complain about it too much because you really should have known it in advance(!).
or you go to one or maybe two shows and since that/those will the only time you get to hear them you'll also be more likely to be able to enjoy even the common songs more (since you don't get hammered by repetition).
so it's your own choice.
but i think it's maybe a bit too idealistic to think that there's an option number three there too: which would be that you could go to 20 shows and every show had a miraculously different and wonderful setlist - but i guess we don't live in this dream world.
BUT it's also not the band's fault, if we don't.



so i just meant that sometimes when reading the comments here i get a feeling that people who go to a lot of shows also expect to hear a different setlist every time - and if they don't, they think it was somehow "unfair". or even say the shows cannot be interesting because the setlists aren't different every time. i have to disagree about this. it's not somehow unfair - because maybe bob probably didn't think of YOU and especially and only YOU when he designed the setlists, but so what? he has other things to think about than that.
i just mean there's nothing tragic in this, there's nothing that would hint that the band is in crisis and there's actually nothing totally wrong with it either.

[strange_day]

I could only attend the Wembley show, but i certainly wasnt disapointed as this is the first time ive heard this set. In all honesty i found the worst thing to do was check the setlists of the other shows, thats the thing that kills it. Its knowing they'll do Lullaby after Pictures..... Disintegration after 100 years and so on.
When i first saw them 4 years ago i had no idea what they'd play... hell, i even got excited when they pulled Fascination Street out of the bag  ....

So really, none of these shows are boring, rubbish, predictable, whatever, the fact is the internet has allowed us to become spoilt, we get the setlist (and simons hair colour!) in real time, then a day later the show is up for download. Thats a truly astonishing and amazing thing, i cant complain about that, but with these massive benefits comes the other side..... which is knowing the setlists, arrangements, every little detail.

Ultimately, to get more surprises one needs to ignore everything else leading up to it, or something like that 

[crowbi_wan]

a practical tip: if you're so very much bothered about setlists being too much alike, then maybe go see only one or two shows. don't even plan going to see any more, if you're  already so annoyed by this setlist detail in advance.

But then one might not get to see the songs they'd like.  If you only go to one or two shows the chance of hearing this kiss, the baby screams, the holy hour, other voices, faith, the big hand, the figurehead, forever, the hanging garden, doing the unstuck, torture, and other rarely played songs is pretty unlikely.

yes of course it is, I'm well aware of that. but what i meant was that the options are these:
either you go to a lot of shows (for instance hoping to hear all those songs you mentioned) BUT then you WILL get a lot of repetition too - and you shouldn't complain about it too much because you really should have known it in advance(!).
or you go to one or maybe two shows and since that/those will the only time you get to hear them you'll also be more likely to be able to enjoy even the common songs more (since you don't get hammered by repetition).
so it's your own choice.
but i think it's maybe a bit too idealistic to think that there's an option number three there too: which would be that you could go to 20 shows and every show had a miraculously different and wonderful setlist - but i guess we don't live in this dream world.
BUT it's also not the band's fault, if we don't.



so i just meant that sometimes when reading the comments here i get a feeling that people who go to a lot of shows also expect to hear a different setlist every time - and if they don't, they think it was somehow "unfair". or even say the shows cannot be interesting because the setlists aren't different every time. i have to disagree about this. it's not somehow unfair - because maybe bob probably didn't think of YOU and especially and only YOU when he designed the setlists, but so what? he has other things to think about than that.
i just mean there's nothing tragic in this, there's nothing that would hint that the band is in crisis and there's actually nothing totally wrong with it either.

Hey, I have no problem with repetition and of course I expect quite a lot of it.  They've always had an outline with some interchangeable songs.  It's totally impractical to think there will be some drastic change in the setlists from night to night.  Minor changes do make the world of difference, at least for me.  It's those interchangeable songs that are becoming not so interchangeable that bother me. 

And yeah, Robert should think of the fans that follow the band around (like me and YOU).  He's well aware that several people do this, and in the past has made note of request signs from fans that keep popping up at shows.  Now he just smiles at those holding signs for some dark song that we know they've rehearsed and all we get to do is read about it in the paper the next day.  But hey, maybe they'll play that one song 12 shows later at a gig you're not at. 

Perhaps expectations were too high after the three Mexico shows.  The band played a shitload of songs over three nights!  But hey, I doubt everyone that was at the first one went to the second and third.  Surely there were fans disappointed that they chose the wrong night(s).  Of course some did and walked away from those three nights in Cure heaven.  I don't think it's too much to expect to hear some variety in the concerts that are back-to-back-to-back (just like in Mexico).  But then, maybe it is?  All I'm trying to get at is that if you went to three shows in a row, you should get some different song selection, not To Wish, Kyoto, Friday, The Walk, Lovecats, and others every f*cking night night.               

[crowbi_wan]

Disintegration after 100 years

But they do Shiver and Shake after 100 years from time to time.  Not enough, imo.  And that's one of those little changes that I think is huge.

[japanesebaby]

the fact is the internet has allowed us to become spoilt, we get the setlist (and simons hair colour!) in real time, then a day later the show is up for download. Thats a truly astonishing and amazing thing, i cant complain about that, but with these massive benefits comes the other side..... which is knowing the setlists, arrangements, every little detail.

exactly. we already get so much today that we just want more and more.
back in the time before web-based real-time updates for just about anything and everything there were surprises everywhere, all the time: you had no ways of checking the set lists unless you went to the concerts or traded for some tapes and listened to those at home and wrote down the set lists youself. back then the setlists were full of surprises - you never knew what was going to be played next!

i don't want to make it sound like those were "the good old days". a lot of things then were/must have been really tedious and frustrating for a lot of fans. all the difficulties of finding information... especially if you lived a bit away from some musical nerve certers of the world. but everything is so easy today that we easily feel like the band wasn't pleasing us enough, that we somehow "deserve" more than that...
i guess it's because we're so much wanting for all those surprises today too. we really yearn them sometimes... and there's nothing bad with that.

i'm sure the surprises are still there to be found - but maybe the setlists aren't the place to look for them today.

[japanesebaby]

PS. i took the liberty of splitting the london thread since the last batch of posts didn't actually concern the london show but the tour/recent years in general.

so here's place to discuss things in general.
european leg of 4Tour 2008 is over:
how did you experience it? how did the shows compare with past shows, with each other?
what affected you the most and what left you cold? a word for those going on the US tour?
anything, really!

(and please do bash the setlists if you feel like it, but hopefully we can talk about something else too. )

[crowbi_wan]

(and please do bash the setlists if you feel like it, but hopefully we can talk about something else too. )

I've bashed the setlists enough  

Maybe I'm coming off as someone who didn't enjoy the shows.  That's certainly untrue!  Please look at the first sentence in my initial post on this thread.  I had a wonderful time in Europe and finally lived out a 15 year long dream of seeing The Cure in Paris.  For someone coming from the states, where fans don't really interact with the band, seeing The Cure in Europe was a real treat.  As much as I enjoy listening to a tape, that just doesn't cut it.  There were moments at both shows that gave me chills and had I not been taping I surely would have been screaming and dancing right along with the all the others.  Sure, I would have liked (and was expecting) a bit more variety between the two shows, but that doesn't mean I didn't love every minute of them.  In fact, I'm already saving my pennies so I can do it all over again