Robert Smith bothered by fans - Brighton 1994

Started by dsanchez, March 05, 2007, 14:22:39

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[labyrinth]

well,
first all i didn't mean to criticize you and neither the thread, and sorry if it is seemed so.

about the two points :
1) i agree with you and with your "responsibility" but, i do really think it is not all that problem 'cause i know the artist is different from the "private"  but i also think artists (RS, in this case) don't have all this responsabilities with the fans especially in their every-day-life and so, if this would annoy him, he should be able and free to say :"hey!...leave...i don't want this kind of things to happen" and i think Robert Smith is a person that could do it ,trust me.
Obviously i'm not justifying the people who went in his home, or recorded his house with that camera...i would be bored,too..if someone would come in my home to record my things and my spaces.

2) well, it's a bit different dreaming about killing a person or robbing a bank.
if i know the thing i dreamed is wrong, i won't do it. if it is not all that wrong for me (and for laws,other people,and the society etc.) i mean, i should be able to do it...obviously if it would touch other's people things, i should STOP it! but, until it isn't a problem for anyone involved with this thing, why should i stop?

about this "responsibilities" and the relation between RS and fans, the thing in the interview about the fans is very interesting....

Descent

The fans he talks about in the interview are people he has known for a while (some of them a long while). So yes, he considers them as friends (some of them take pictures, others film live shows for him, another is a bass technician/roadie since 2005...). Yes, they "built a reationship" with him and certainly that wasn't by going to his house without warning (again I'm sure those Italian fans didn't realize, that was a long time ago now...). But that would be totally unreleastic to think somebody would meet him backstage or boarding the tour bus and becoming friends so easily. Yes, he's quite accessible while he's appearing in public (concerts, tv shows...) but that's it.

Otherwise I'm not so sure about RS frankly telling somebody that admires him to f*ck off (unless that person would do something particulary awful). It's always better to keep your cool in those situations even if it's really really annoying.

Dillinger

i actually really want to see this now just out of curiosity as to what happened. is it viewable anywhere else? i feel so guilty  :oops: but i dont think im doing anything wrong just wanting to see it

japanesebaby

(sorry this is rather long but i tried to explain my points more clearly and looks like it took some time...)


i think we should consider the available forms of communication between fans and their idol(s):
a lot of it is one-way communication, the fans listening to the records, reading mags/interviews etc. - this is how it actually works most of the time: the artist communicates with us via his art, not by being personally available.

in live concerts this becomes temporary two-way communication where both parties are actually present - and where both  come out of their own will. it's a public occasion, somehting that both parties have agreed to. the same can be said of other public apperances, in this case all those where RS is appearing as "RS of the cure", when he's selling us some of his time for our pleasure. at first the word "selling" may sound somewhat "dirty" (because it often does when money is involved...) but that's what happens. and there's nothing particularly dirty in it, when one thinks of it: because it's the same thing that happens when any of us goes to work, whatever it is that we do. we sell some of our time together with our abilities for someone in order to get paid, in order to be able to pay our rent etc etc. that's the way it goes.

however, going to someone house without a warning is a kind of forced two-way communication: because by going there a person insists "i want to communicate with you NOW" and he/she somehow assumes that it's got to be ok for the other party too. people keep saying "hey i don't think he was annoyed..." - well, how can you tell actually? how can you be sure? let's not forget that we can only assume that at its best.
and really, no-one cannot use this assumption as an excuse for justifying stuff like this. besides the satrting point was unfair, since it was forced communication anyway - i'll get back to that.


Quote from: [labyrinth] on March 11, 2007, 14:42:57but, until it isn't a problem for anyone involved with this thing, why should i stop?
yes but this was exactly what i tried to point out - because someone is certainly being involved now and this someone is RS!  :!:
he's made very much involved but completely out of his own will/choice.

in several occasions during the 90s robert said how he was disturbed and annoyed by some complete strangers that came to hang around his house, often dressed up as his lookalikes. i think anyone who read the mag interviews from this period saw these comments, he made them several times. so, he always clearly wished to have a strict line between his stage persona and his private persona. and he didn't like it when people started crossing this line.
and so, we have his own word about it, he has said this himself many times - but still, people here wave their hand to it and say "naaaah, i don't think was annoyed". well, come on.... !? to me it looks like robert's own word counts for nothing then...

because i think the difference that member Descent pointed out is important: that we must take into consideration whether he's sometimes talking about fans that he actually knows or just any fans. it's the same as if we were talking about our friends or people we don't know - i think we make a difference in our own lives so i think it's only natural that RS can do it too. would i mind it if some friends dropped by my house and wanted to chat for a sec? no i wouldn't. would i be disturbed if some complete strangers wanted the same from me? hey yes i would.


about robert's "option" of telling them to piss off:
can we really imagine him ever doing that? i can't. and since i can't imagine it, i don't think we can say "hey he could have done this" and use that as some sort of excuse.
i recently saw an interview of one well-known movie celebrity talking about this, about fans crossing the line. he said
"to be honest yes, many times i would simply like to punch them in the face, these people who think i should be available at all times, to be a star for them at any time they want - but then, it's just so so much more easier to try to keep on smiling and write the autograph etc....".

i think that's actually pretty sad to read. because we must remember that whereas some average joe like you or i can punch an intrusive person in the face and tell him to go f*ck himself, it's not the same with people under public eye (especially if they are being filmed at the same time, like here!!!). so in fact they cannot often have same choices as we have, in fact they are often pretty helpless. i think we should keep this in mind.
IMO robert doesn't really have any other options than behave well and try not to show how angry he might be - despite however angry he was. because anything else he might choose to do would be bad, and he knows it.
(and hey, there were no cameras rolling inside the house, showing his reactions after he left and went inside... hmm.).

so what can be seen on the video is that he is being nice to those people BUT he is actually  being forced to be nice.  :!:
it's forced two-way communication (or rather: "communication"): one party (here: the fans) dictates the rules and the other has no other choices but to follow - whether or not he liked it. and this is ugly stuff to watch, because it's fans misusing your own idol, more or less forcing him to behave like you want to: it's almost like saying "dance for me!" "roll!" "fetch!" to a puppet or a dog or something. it's "be robert smith of the cure for me, be it NOW!" or either "hey i want to see how you really are, in your private life (when you are not robert smith of the cure but robert smith the private person) - show me your real me, show it to me NOW!"

whichever way it was: both of these are simply wrong.  :smth011


about fans who do this sort of things:
i suppose they've created a strong mental image of their idol via listening to records, going to the concerts, reading the interviews - and they start thinking they know this person, that they have really developed some sort of "relationship" with him. and i don't deny they have a relationship there, even a special one and an important one -  but the problem is that they begin to forget that it's been based on one-way communication all the time. it's not equal in that sense. but they start having an illusion that the relationship they had cultivated is somehow two-way anyway and that it gives them the right to enter this person's life.
they confuse the concepts of the idols public stage persona and his/her private persona.
they somehow start imagining that their idol will be just as pleased to meet them (total strangers!) as they are to meet him, or that their idol will be delighted to entertain them any time they want.

i'm not saying it all happens with bad intentions in mind: it happens because people don't think, people don't understand their responsibilities, people start having illusions and become careless because they never gave a single thought of these things.

Quote from: [labyrinth] on March 11, 2007, 14:42:57..obviously if it would touch other's people things, i should STOP it!
sure. but i think "other people's things" should without questioning include privacy, home, family, persons own time (his time off, his personal time, the time he hasn't "sold" to anyone). that's all.


about the "dream factor":
Quote from: [labyrinth] on March 11, 2007, 14:42:57well, it's a bit different dreaming about killing a person or robbing a bank.
if i know the thing i dreamed is wrong, i won't do it. if it is not all that wrong for me (and for laws,other people,and the society etc.) i mean, i should be able to do it...obviously if it would touch other's people things, i should STOP it! but, until it isn't a problem for anyone involved with this thing, why should i stop?
i know i chose harsh examples, but only to enhance my point. because sure, a normal person doesn't go out and shoot another person - why? because he knows his responsibilities. because he knows where the line is drawn. because he knows it's not ok to cross the line. that's what i meant when i said the issue here is that fans should realize their responsibilities too. because when one thinks about it, it's actually an easy job to be a fan: you just sit back and wait that the artist serves you and enjoy the ride he/she offers... but if you have any sort of real respect towards your idol, then you realize where the limits are, you realize what part of your idol is meant to be "publicly available" for you (and when!) and what part of him/her is not.
that's the responsibility of a fan. if you cross the line and say "hey i was just pursuing my dream!" then theoretically it's the same thing as someone robbing a bank and saying "hey i just really wanted more money!"


so, both the "dream factor" and the "naaah i don't think he minded" are crap excuses. they don't justify things like this at all.
please show me some a good excuse -  i just really doubt it that any such exists... 

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

cureterra

Quote from: Lady on March 10, 2007, 11:33:04
and was he wrong??? :shock:

no, (i tried to say that), if he was kind with them, maybe he wasn't annoying
*** VANILLA SMILE ***

Adlib

Tell me if I'm wrong...
"Paparazzi" is an Italian world, isn't it...  :?
When the wise shows the star, the fools look at his finger...

Bloodflower

Quote from: Adlib on March 12, 2007, 22:40:53
Tell me if I'm wrong...
"Paparazzi" is an Italian world, isn't it...  :?

:smth043

Enter: Xenophobia.

It is, though. An Italian word, I mean.
Another Curefan for The Dark Christmas album.

figurehead

'Is It Always Like This?'

disintegration

This person are fan of the Cure, no "paparazzi"!  :smth011
Datemi un cielo per caderci dentro!
SOLO LA TERNANA!
http://www.ternanashirts.it/
LADY, la luce nel mio buio!

gioez

I think the major fault in this post is in title: writing "Italian" the discussion has changed the focal point. It seems that Italians are boring people, only Italians... and on the other side the "rest of the world". Now I see phrases like "Paparazzi is an italian word", etc.

Isn't a question of nationality...  :smth011
[move][b][glow=red,6,28]100 Years[/glow][/b][/move]

disintegration

Datemi un cielo per caderci dentro!
SOLO LA TERNANA!
http://www.ternanashirts.it/
LADY, la luce nel mio buio!

figurehead

'Is It Always Like This?'

japanesebaby

#42
Quote from: gioez on March 14, 2007, 11:44:13
Isn't a question of nationality...  :smth011

true. it has been easy to sense that some italian fans seem to feel the need to defend themselves as a nation here - and i don't really know why because this was never directed against "italian fans" as a group. i think this should have been clear from the start. and i think we should be able to have conversation and be free of this sort of generalizations stepping in and influencing our discussion.
thus i think people taking the conversation into "who are the best fans!" actually double-miss the focal point here.
this never was about the fans' nationality at all - i don't even think anyone said so here. so it could have been german fans, uk fans, french fans, finnish fans etc. etc. - but whoever it was, it would not make any difference.
and especially nationalities connected to the question "who's the best fan!" - that kind of crap has nothing to do with this topic at all.
"being a good fan" (whatever that means) can have absolutely nothing to do with person's nationality. i'd believe everyone should realize this.

Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

temptation-cure

this people on that video speak so funny inglish and when ask for brandon lee""
""robert brandon is dead is dead""
dalé dalé hahaha :-D
Oh that boy is a slag the best u ever had , the best u ever had is just a memory and those dreams but weren't daft as they seem , not as daft as they seem..oh my love when u dreamed them up..oh flo where did u go .. oww ohh(F.A)
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http://temptation-cure.galeon.com

temptation-cure

Quote from: disintegration on March 14, 2007, 13:32:12
and.... italian fans is the best, stop!  :rocker

yeah but they scream to much at the shows
Oh that boy is a slag the best u ever had , the best u ever had is just a memory and those dreams but weren't daft as they seem , not as daft as they seem..oh my love when u dreamed them up..oh flo where did u go .. oww ohh(F.A)
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http://temptation-cure.galeon.com