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The Cure => Music and Lyrics => Topic started by: Andy on September 10, 2005, 12:43:15

Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Andy on September 10, 2005, 12:43:15
Just got hold of the second CD single released for Gone!
This is one of very few UK CD singles I didn't already own and the tracks on it I didn't already own were The 13th (Feels Good Mix) and Strange Attraction (Strange Mix).

What a complete disappointment The 13th remix is - nothing like the original song and quite shockingly bad! Why do bands allow this kind of garbage to happen to their music?? This really does annoy me when there have been some mixes of Cure songs in the past that I have thought were fantastic, in particular some of the extended mixes on the singles from Wish and Disintegration. There was a remix of Gone! on the first CD single which I thought was really quirky and cool (Critter mix, I think it was called). Then again, probably some of you out there hated that one!

What are others opinions on remixes and do you agree that in general the quality of Cure remixes has deteriorated in recent years?
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!
Why not put on live tracks for the other B-sides they would be much more welcomed instead of crappy remixes you would only play for 30 seconds ever!!
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Janko on September 10, 2005, 23:13:26
Now, now...
Its just the format trouble...
74 minutes to fill.

I LOVE remixes becouse they are "what could or should be"... you know, longer, bigger, free, unchained stuff that has good production. The Cure are NOT the band that will often make long extended radically reworked live in concert versions (as they do well with A Forest, but lousy with Forever) - so not being able to do free form stuff live - the band makes (made?!) remixes - and they are great!
And then - The Cure are NOT hard rock band and they clearly addopted other influences. So, why not? It expands their fanbase, brings more airplay, and THEY ARE NOT LOOSING ON QUALITY with remixes...
So, as long as its good music from the guys - bring it on!

:?
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: smitha on September 10, 2005, 23:32:57
still not convinced. :?  
I rarely like remixes.
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Andy on September 11, 2005, 14:53:18
I agree with Janko on this.

My original point was that the quality of most recent remixes has been pretty poor, compared with older remixes which often gave an interesting different take on a song. I enjoyed most of mixed up and the other mixes that appeared on singles in that period.

Surely The Cure always have been a "remix kind of band", as there are remixes going back to a lot of their very early material?? My ideal for a single has always been a decent remix and a couple of new tracks, which used to usually be the case with The Cure. This is the reason I have nearly every single as well as albums.
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: splitmilk34 on September 11, 2005, 15:10:07
I think that many of the "remixes" have been pretty sub-par, but good things (like a larger fanbase) do come out of it.  There are some cases where the remix rivals the original version... the remix of Lullaby on Mixed Up is awesome, and there are like 7 different remixes of Close to Me, and the Tree Mix of A Forest is also excellent.  It's just a matter of taste, I guess?
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on October 05, 2005, 01:09:14
i rate most remixes / ext versions.
i think it gives us a chance to hear a different side of what we love. not that i would substiture the original with remixes but still i find it interesting.

sometimes it gets a bit too much, i'm not sure of the exact number but i know there are some songs that have stacks of remixes - Wrong Number for example.

i really liked the mix of Primary on the Close To Me remix single that appeared.

as mentioned in another post, all up to personal opinion. if the Cure were exactly the way one of us wanted, the other zillion fans would be disappointed...
or maybe not.

just spouting crap as per usual...

Javier
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: lostflower4 on October 05, 2005, 16:50:09
Starting in '96, it seems like the Cure pretty much gave up on remixes in the traditional sense. Either they were extreme departures of the original, or barely different at all. Listen to the remixes that appear on the 13th and Mint Car singles. They're barely "remixes" at all.

1997 gave us about a bunch of Wrong Number mixes. The only one that really strikes me is the Crossed Line - Warm Vocal one. I find it very hypnotizing.

Then comes 2000. All we got is 4 remixes of Maybe Someday, 3 of which are exactly the same except for the length. And oh yeah, the strange Watching Me Fall remix that most of us probably hate.

And finally, 2004. No remixes at all, unless you count the single mixes which are the same but just shortened a bit.

Has the era of remixes come to a grinding halt? :(
Title: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: splitmilk34 on October 05, 2005, 17:41:24
It seems the most of the newer Cure stuff doesn't lend itself to remixes, which may well be a good thing.  However, I think it'd be interesting to hear some remixes of Anniversary, Going Nowhere, Before Three, and This Morning off of the last album.  What does all this mean... probably nothing.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: revolt on July 29, 2008, 13:17:49
Quote from: splitmilk34 on October 05, 2005, 17:41:24
It seems the most of the newer Cure stuff doesn't lend itself to remixes, which may well be a good thing.  


Well, with the new Hypno-something remix EP coming on, we'll have a good opportunity to see if you are right or not...

Anyway, sometimes remixes can butcher a good original and still somehow come out fine. A good example, if my memory serves me well, is the Flicker mix of 'The Catterpillar' (included in the 'Mixed Up' album).

Another issue here is that sometimes it is easier to do a good remix of a lousy song than do the same with a great song. If the song is bad, you feel free to just get from it the little bits that sound OK, work from there, and throw the rest of the song in the garbage can. If the song is great and you are a conscious remixer, you might get a sort of a block and think - now, what the hell can I do with this song that will improve it?
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Bloodflower on July 30, 2008, 05:26:32
Quote from: lostflower4 on October 05, 2005, 16:50:09
Starting in '96, it seems like the Cure pretty much gave up on remixes in the traditional sense. Either they were extreme departures of the original, or barely different at all. Listen to the remixes that appear on the 13th and Mint Car singles. They're barely "remixes" at all.

1997 gave us about a bunch of Wrong Number mixes. The only one that really strikes me is the Crossed Line - Warm Vocal one. I find it very hypnotizing.

Then comes 2000. All we got is 4 remixes of Maybe Someday, 3 of which are exactly the same except for the length. And oh yeah, the strange Watching Me Fall remix that most of us probably hate.

And finally, 2004. No remixes at all, unless you count the single mixes which are the same but just shortened a bit.

Has the era of remixes come to a grinding halt? :(


I have to take exception here -- I happen to love, for instance, Mint Car [Buskers Mix], then there's the Ambient Mix of This is a Lie, I TOTALLY dig the Analogue Exchange Mix of Wrong Number, the radio edit of Maybe Someday cuts off a bit of unnecessary time, and I'd completely LOVE the radio edit of Out of this World if it wasn't so loud and the beginning wasn't so sloppy. As for 2004 -- I believe that the single mix of The End of the World raises the levels on the... I don't know what it is, some synthesizer -- anyway, it just sounds better to my ears.

And yeah, post-'92 remixes have generally been tamer, less reimagining of songs than, you know, remixes, but some songs, and here I refer you back to This is a Lie [Ambient Mix] and the Buskers Mix of Mint Car, just need a bit of tweaking. I mean, if the extended version of Fascination Street cut off about three unnecessary minutes, but kept keyboard part, it'd be freaking amazing.... -er, anyway....
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: KingOfSomeIsland on July 30, 2008, 23:25:31
I like hearing new remixes and alternate versions and I was dissappointed that the last album had so few of them. My favoruite remixes are the Closer Mix of Close to Me and the 12" Version of Pictures of You. Something about that version (of Pictures) is just so amazing and just adds so much even though its so similar to the album cut, It makes it so much more wistful and dreamy. And the Closer mix of Close to Me is just pure fun
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Cure Freak on August 06, 2008, 00:39:28
Quote from: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!

i agree
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 00:59:02
Quote from: Cure Freak on August 06, 2008, 00:39:28
Quote from: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!

i agree

that's interesting. Mixed Up is the first release I heard from The Cure other than Never Enough. It's what prompted me to go back and listen to the originals and eventually fall in love with the music. It sounds a bit dated now but I loved it back then and I still listen to it on occasion now.

PS you'll hate the new EP that's due then ;-)
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 06, 2008, 02:32:52
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 00:59:02
Quote from: Cure Freak on August 06, 2008, 00:39:28
Quote from: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!

i agree

that's interesting. Mixed Up is the first release I heard from The Cure other than Never Enough. It's what prompted me to go back and listen to the originals and eventually fall in love with the music. It sounds a bit dated now but I loved it back then and I still listen to it on occasion now.


i've also always been in the minority that liked/still likes 'mixed up'. i always thought i liked it because i've liked a broad variety of music anyway and not been genre oriented and also because i wasn't really in contact with other cure fans back then - so in a way i could say that back then i really didn't know that it was "not ok" to like that record and i only learned a bit later that "oh every "true" cure fan is supposed to hate this, just because". don't get me wrong: of course there's nothing wrong if some people genuinely don't like it and can give reasons to their opinion. i'm not saying that everyone just adopted some collective attitude - but surely there's been a lot of that too around 'mixed up'. i always genuinely liked the album and that's why i found that "officially approved" collective attitude just really strange to myself - and i guess it almost worked the other way round and just made me consciously resist disliking that album even more! ;)


looking at it from today's perspective, yes it sounds a bit outdated at times - but not nearly as badly as it could. there are some really good sounding stuff on it, still.
and i don't know, but i sometimes feel like perhaps people who only got into the band later (late 90s, post-2000) can easily find it outdated and not interesting, even out of place. at least it's somehow easy to bash it from today's perspective, a lot easier than bashing some other albums.
i'm not saying this is the case with the comments here, but just in general.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 03:18:00
It's being re-released as a Remaster isn't it??
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Bloodflower on August 06, 2008, 08:06:51
That's the plan, last we heard. It's meant to see re-release alongside Disintegration, Entreat, Wish, Show, and Paris. I'm desperately awaiting them....

*Crosses fingers for double/triple CD versions of Entreat, Show, and Paris*
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 08:10:11
hmmmm. i reckon you're clutching at straws there with Show Paris and Entreat. i heard it was Mixed Up, Disintegration, Wish & WMS as Bloodflowers was mastered at the remaster "level" if you know what i mean..
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 06, 2008, 11:18:07
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 08:10:11
hmmmm. i reckon you're clutching at straws there with Show Paris and Entreat. i heard it was Mixed Up, Disintegration, Wish & WMS as Bloodflowers was mastered at the remaster "level" if you know what i mean..


http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,4244.msg41171.html#msg41171

Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: revolt on August 06, 2008, 11:55:16
'Mixed Up' was kind of a pioneering thing in that back in 1990 this sort of album was not usual at all!

Anyway, probably some songs are more "remixable" than others. A remix of "Faith" or "Plainsong" would possibly sound useless or horrible, but then it all depends on the genius of the remixer and the way he/she goes about it.

There are a few songs on mixed-up that at least sound good: 'Close to Me', 'A Forest', 'Caterpillar'... And the extended mixes (probably shouldn't be called remixes in the proper sense) of 'Lullaby' and 'Lovesong' are also well done, for instance. So, even if, overall, 'Mixed Up' doesn't reach the quality level of a normal CURE album, I think it is fair to say that it accomplishes its purposes in a more or less classy way.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Cure Freak on August 06, 2008, 14:36:21
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 00:59:02
Quote from: Cure Freak on August 06, 2008, 00:39:28
Quote from: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!

i agree

that's interesting. Mixed Up is the first release I heard from The Cure other than Never Enough. It's what prompted me to go back and listen to the originals and eventually fall in love with the music. It sounds a bit dated now but I loved it back then and I still listen to it on occasion now.

PS you'll hate the new EP that's due then ;-)

You said the word hate. As I said,in anoother thread, I don't hate any Cure song.
I'm  just disappointed in the way the songs were handled in Mixed Up. And I know this was more of an experimental thing and I'm all for bands trying new things with their songs. It just thaty I didn't think The Cure did a good job.
And as for the new LP. I'm disappointed in the songs that I have come out, as singles, so far.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 00:54:48
Quote from: japanesebaby on August 06, 2008, 11:18:07
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 08:10:11
hmmmm. i reckon you're clutching at straws there with Show Paris and Entreat. i heard it was Mixed Up, Disintegration, Wish & WMS as Bloodflowers was mastered at the remaster "level" if you know what i mean..


http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,4244.msg41171.html#msg41171



hmmmm... tasty foot
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 00:56:54
Quote from: revolt on August 06, 2008, 11:55:16
'Mixed Up' was kind of a pioneering thing in that back in 1990 this sort of album was not usual at all!

Anyway, probably some songs are more "remixable" than others. A remix of "Faith" or "Plainsong" would possibly sound useless or horrible, but then it all depends on the genius of the remixer and the way he/she goes about it.

There are a few songs on mixed-up that at least sound good: 'Close to Me', 'A Forest', 'Caterpillar'... And the extended mixes (probably shouldn't be called remixes in the proper sense) of 'Lullaby' and 'Lovesong' are also well done, for instance. So, even if, overall, 'Mixed Up' doesn't reach the quality level of a normal CURE album, I think it is fair to say that it accomplishes its purposes in a more or less classy way.

I agree..
I for one would like to see a Mixed Up II or shall we say "Mixed Down"... with other mixes.. hell make it a triple CD!!
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 07, 2008, 09:07:46
i agree with revolt too.
the 90's were so full of everyone making "easy" remix albums (if not officially released  then there were bootleg versions) that it's easy to forget how much of a pioneering thing 'mixed up' really was. i guess it was (and sometimes still is?) too much of a surprise to many that of all the bands out there it was the cure who showed the way there.

Quote from: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 00:54:48
Quote from: japanesebaby on August 06, 2008, 11:18:07
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 06, 2008, 08:10:11
hmmmm. i reckon you're clutching at straws there with Show Paris and Entreat. i heard it was Mixed Up, Disintegration, Wish & WMS as Bloodflowers was mastered at the remaster "level" if you know what i mean..


http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,4244.msg41171.html#msg41171



hmmmm... tasty foot


:?:
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 09:13:20
was saying that i put my foot in my mouth when i said that those other records weren't being remastered...
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 07, 2008, 09:27:34
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 09:13:20
was saying that i put my foot in my mouth when i said that those other records weren't being remastered...


i see. you know since i'm just a poor non-english speaker by birth so sometimes "my english is very small", like they say.  :)

(it tasted good?)
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: revolt on August 07, 2008, 11:04:56
Quote from: japanesebaby on August 07, 2008, 09:27:34
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 09:13:20
was saying that i put my foot in my mouth when i said that those other records weren't being remastered...


i see. you know since i'm just a poor non-english speaker by birth so sometimes "my english is very small", like they say.  :)

(it tasted good?)


Well, tasting feet seems to be a sort of Cure speciality or something like that. Remember "Why Can't I Be You?" ("I'll kiss you from your FEET to where your head begins")...  ;) :-D
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 11:12:47
@ Japanesebaby: LOL
@ Revolt: Throw Your Foot
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 07, 2008, 11:19:16
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 11:12:47
@ Revolt: Throw Your Foot


possibly related:

taste the taste in your mouth
taste the taste  on your tongue...

(screw)

and/or:

wake up in the dark
the aftertaste of... feet(?) in the back of your mouth


well ok i might remember some of the lyrics wrong...
:-P
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 11:28:23
aftertaste of anger... i suppose feet can be angry!!
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: japanesebaby on August 07, 2008, 11:50:43
Quote from: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 11:28:23
aftertaste of anger... i suppose feet can be angry!!


well, i'd be angry (at myself) if i was robert and i had to taste my smelly feet.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 07, 2008, 13:07:24
i don't care for feet. i think they're ugly. even the best tidiest ones are off...
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: revolt on August 07, 2008, 14:14:17
"There's nothing left but feet..."

I have this image of Robert eating his beloved from head to toes and suddenly he finds that he is already past her ankles...


( just a piece of dark humour, I'm not advocating cannibalism or anything like that...  :-D )
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Bloodflower on August 07, 2008, 21:24:52
It is my belief that feet, in fact, are a measure of life....
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: nausearockpig on August 08, 2008, 00:54:21
Quote from: Bloodflower on August 07, 2008, 21:24:52
It is my belief that feet, in fact, are a measure of life....

no that's seventeen seconds...
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: revolt on August 08, 2008, 10:28:10
Suddenly I'm finding a whole new world of meanings in Cure lyrics...

Take this example from 'The Same Deep Water as You':

And laughing
Break against your feet
And laughing
Break the mirror sweet



Notice how "sweet" rhymes with "feet"? That can't be a coincidence, can it?
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: pyota on August 18, 2008, 16:28:15
Quote from: meatfeeder on September 10, 2005, 15:00:55
Mixed Up was a terrible idea! ,The Cure just ain't a Remix kind of band their songs should just be left alone!
Why not put on live tracks for the other B-sides they would be much more welcomed instead of crappy remixes you would only play for 30 seconds ever!!


i love mixed up, and many of the remixes i like better than the originals, for example, a forest (tree mix), the walk (everything mix), let's go to bed (milk mix), lullaby (extended), hot hot hot (extended) ...
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Carnage Visor on August 24, 2008, 20:03:21
I'm going to stick my toe into a pool of hungry crocodiles and say that I think that all of the remixes butcher the originals. Like, when Digitalism did "A Forest", I think that ruined what I felt was the most redeeming part of the song, by making it all techno it took away the foreboding nature of the original and made it too dancey and commercial.

I don't know, I just have never really liked remixes (I like making them though, because I know how far is too far in terms of changing the original)

The good remixes to me are the ones that extend the song, add solos, and sound like the album version. When they go and redo all the music, it's not the same.
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: max on August 25, 2008, 22:47:41
Full...
Too many to write all of them !
Better to notice the improved ones ...
The older ones of course
(Primary,Lovecats-The walk-Let's go to bed,In between days,
fascination street and the 92' ones high and Friday I'm in love)
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Carnage Visor on August 27, 2008, 21:42:03
Quote from: max on August 25, 2008, 22:47:41
Full...
Too many to write all of them !
Better to notice the improved ones ...
The older ones of course
(Primary,Lovecats-The walk-Let's go to bed,In between days,
fascination street and the 92' ones high and Friday I'm in love)



I'm with you there! The 12" version of Let's Go To Bed is very similar to the album version, but slightly different production and mixing. The drums sound a bit different, and the bass/synth sounds a bit dubby. It's mixes like that that are exciting to listen to!
Title: Re: Remixes that butcher the original song
Post by: Fdipper on April 16, 2019, 22:32:23
Quote from: lostflower4 on October 05, 2005, 16:50:09
Starting in '96, it seems like the Cure pretty much gave up on remixes in the traditional sense. Either they were extreme departures of the original, or barely different at all. Listen to the remixes that appear on the 13th and Mint Car singles. They're barely "remixes" at all.

1997 gave us about a bunch of Wrong Number mixes. The only one that really strikes me is the Crossed Line - Warm Vocal one. I find it very hypnotizing.

Then comes 2000. All we got is 4 remixes of Maybe Someday, 3 of which are exactly the same except for the length. And oh yeah, the strange Watching Me Fall remix that most of us probably hate.

And finally, 2004. No remixes at all, unless you count the single mixes which are the same but just shortened a bit.

Has the era of remixes come to a grinding halt? :(
At 2004, i actually think there were some remixes released. I remember a The End Of The World remix that was unreleased, internet? And i should think about more. There was a lot of another versions like the alt ver of Going Nowhere, or demos like labyrinth, fake, jason (Turned into Never.) or the radio edit of the end of the world, unreleased songs like Song Five, Strum, Please Come Home or even scratch sketches like Someone's Coming.
2000 remixes:
Watching me fall (Underdog Remix)
3 remixes of maybe someday (Dance mix, hedges mix and one more, i don't remember the title)
like 2 or 3 remixes of out of this world, one of them is radio edit so it makes it two remixes
39 (Karsh Kale Remix)
Just Say Yes (Curve Remix)
Cut Here (Missing Remix)
Signal To Noise (Extended Remix)
The Last Days OS (Extended Remix) probably a bootleg
There is no if (Drum Remix)
More Than This (Mysterious Remix)
Yesterday's Gone (X-Mix)
There's also a little bit more, if i'll find some i'll edit the post and put it into the list.
1997: (My favorite era of remixes) :lol:
WN (Crossed Line Remix)
WN (16b Varm Vocal(Cros...blah blah blah Remix)
WN (Engaged Remix)
WN (Dub Analogue Exchange Remix)
WN (Analogue Exchange Remix)
WN (Single Remix)
WN (Digital Exchange Remix)
WN (ISDN Remix)
WN (Acoustic Remix)
WN (Smith Remix) or p2p remix, idk how You call it out there)
there was also a demo of WN called "A Thought'' and the Analogue Exchange Mix was called "Lime Green" before i changed its title to analogue..blah blah mix.
btw i don't know what's going on with the radio mix of wrong number, i don't know if it's fake or not.....