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The Cure News => News from reliable sources => Topic started by: dsanchez on September 28, 2011, 16:23:23

Title: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on September 28, 2011, 16:23:23
A comment written by Bob on thecure.com

Quote
Posted by CURE:ROBERT on 9/27/2011 11:24 AM (GMT-04:00)

http://rockhall.com/inductees/nominees/the-cure/ BORIS WILLIAMS, LOL TOLHURST AND JASON COOPER HAVE EACH BEEN THE CURE'S DRUMMER ON FOUR ALBUMS... BORIS WILLIAMS WAS IN THE BAND FOR 9 YEARS AND LOL TOLHURST FOR 11 YEARS (5 YEARS AS DRUMMER)... BUT JASON COOPER HAS BEEN DRUMMING WITH THE CURE FOR 17 YEARS, FROM 1994 TO THE PRESENT DAY... JASON COOPER IS THE CURE'S DRUMMER - AND IT SICKENS ME THAT HE DOESNT GET A NAME CHECK... BAH! RSX
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on September 28, 2011, 17:15:38
By the way, Bob is angry because in the note (about The Cure being nominee for 2012 induction on the Rock and Roll hall of fame) Boris is mentioned as The Cure's drummer, but not Jason :roll:

What Robert forget is that The Cure was very popular during the time of Boris Williams, and contests like this prioritize popularity over anything.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Trust... on September 28, 2011, 20:18:46
I am totally agree with Robert !!!!
Popular or not, they can't ignore Jason and btw I am maybe the only one , but for me is Jason the drummer of the band.

And I like Robert's message. Jason does diserve respect too! Well said Robert!
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on September 29, 2011, 02:29:45
Quoting the article : " In the late ‘80s, they jumped from clubs to arenas and stadiums, winning the radio play they’d long deserved with 1987’s “Just Like Heaven,” (which took an “alternative” sound to the mainstream before people were even using the term alternative) and their 1992 smash “Friday I’m In Love.” "

Who is ridiculous here ? The writer of this article (aside the usual reference to goth and emo) ? Robert's reaction ?

As far as I know, and I've been listening to this band long before the end of the 80's, Jason Cooper had not joined the fold by then. If this nomination has to do with this era, there is definitely no reason Jason Cooper would be concerned with it. Harsh to say, but that's just reading... and what is written here is just facts.

Fact also is that everyone have their own feelings about Jason Cooper's style / playing / whatever you want... Mine is not that positive, and there is no lack of respect to say that he might be good in his style, but not to my ears, and not from what I'm expecting The Cure should sound like. And that's been lasting for 15 years (17 for Robert, thankfully not for me).

I loved this band for what they did then, not for what they do now and above all not for what they have been doing for the last 10 years. Once loved, can't hate totally. That's exactly the meaning of the article. They just forgot about Jason, but they also forgot about Andy (who is a far better drummer though... Sorry, but if it comes to these considerations, it has to be said...) and forgot about Phil, Matthew, Perry (I stop there before forgetting other members too). Mind you, certainly not on purpose.

Point is, this article emphasises on the 80s. And Jason was learning how to play drums by then... Nothing harmful in saying that. Read again : there is no reference to anything beyond 1992...

"Niceboy" Smith should remember how clever he has been when he thanked every single member of The Cure since the beginning but Lol Tolhurst as he received the British Award for Best Band in 1991. That's exactly as nice as what this article says (except that this article certainly has no mean or harming intentions, which certainly wasn't Bob's point of view by 1991 regarding Lol). Purposedly.

Just goes to show that when one throws a boomerang, it invariably comes back.

Anyway, if I read between Smith's screaming words, I can't see much future for Cooper in this band... "BUT JASON COOPER HAS BEEN DRUMMING WITH THE CURE FOR 17 YEARS, FROM 1994 TO THE PRESENT DAY...". Fair enough ? Game over ?

Come on Bob ! This is just the most hypocritical sentence you've ever said (and god knows the guy is used to being cynical). Cooper's been bashed up for the last 15 years and you never said anything about it. A single article rose this ? I can't believe it.

Fact also is that if fans bash the drummer, they bash the band in a way. And that's not the most pleasant thing to do (for fans who love the band and would have killed to defend them, yeah that's the way it was). Honestly, I know many people who turn their back from this band not just because the drummer is whatever they think about him, but simply also because the overall feeling is that the music is just weaker now than it used to be. A band is a whole. Put what people consider for whatever reason as a weak link in it and the magic of music is gone. Weak links, in the case of The Cure are multiple, beginning with Smith's myopa (or deafness...). 

Not facing it is just one more stone thrown in the garden and will certainly enable bashers to do their business a little more passionately. Thanks Mister Smith, that's clever.

Bob, go back to some diplomacy course. If you've to scream your hatred on someone, do it on fans who spent their time spitting on Jason. A simple "F*** **f" would be easy, and more honest than using a flame thrower on a "desperate journalist". Oh yeah, it's not polite to do that, it would be shocking. But at least, things would become clearer to most. Unless you "clearly" want to put the blame on Jason, but I can't believe it's your motivation, is it ?

They got clearer for me when you said "If you don't like this LP, you don't like The Cure". It was in 2004, and I suddenly realized that you were so obviously and absolutely right... Thanks for having opened my eyes then (that's always too late, but at least better late than never). You're the man of no compromision. You're the guy who wrote "Killing An...". Even this, you won't sing it again.

Be courageous, for once. 

Honestly ? I doubt you can. You've gone too far and your tower is to high now... You realized that falling would be harmful.

Faint angers never bring anything good. Remember 1991, Bob, remember... The one who killed with the axe shall die by the axe.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: TheRedSinger on September 29, 2011, 04:08:55
I really think that Jason's not THAT good for the cure music...

I agree in a lot of points that Adlib talks about. I felt the coment of Robert was similar to a girl crying because she wants to see the smile of everybody and nobody smiles to her...

If Robert wants Jason on the band, he's going to have him anyway. No matter what people, or journalist say. So what's the point of the coment? I just dont get it... If a lot of people ignore or criticize Jason, is because something is wrong. If Robert doesn't wants to see it, or from his perspective, the members of the band right now are perfect, well, that's his problem :)
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: cure89 on September 29, 2011, 09:53:03
@Adlib: True words.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on September 29, 2011, 11:50:43
Thanks.

I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views (except maybe when he took part in the onlie free music controversy, I must say he was damn right this time). But what did he say or do during the last 10 years is purely meaningless : promising records that never show up, cancelling tours, having doubtful collaborations and always speaking when the wise position would certainly be to shut up. 

This time was certainly the best opportunity to remain silent. What he did here will just have the opposite effect. More bashing on Cooper.

See, Robert's positions were fun in the past. He always had something rather funny to say. Sometimes he could become horribly boring and rather pseudo intellectualising, but at least cynical, in a constructive way. And  what's there ? A moaning guy, nothing more. Well, this kind of statement is everything but convincing. At least when he talked about Simple Minds, ABBA and U2 in the 80s, he was funny and his point was well developped so that there couldn't be any discussion afterwards.

Either he lost any common sense, either it's part of a strategy to sack Cooper soon. But in a rather diplomatic way. As if it would be the first member to be fired... The other times, there was no velvet glove. 

Speaking lack of respect, the "Reflection" newly announced shows are just part of the (many) things that are purely disgusting. Weren't the Sydney concerts announced as one shot events ? As a result, how many fans went there spending an awful lot of money in hope to attend a very special event ? Just to hear 3 months later that "due to demand, we are going to play in London, LA and NYC". That's a lack of respect and it only shows that something rotten has invaded the fruit : money. Oh, yeah, that's an easy judgement, but that's the way I see it. What next ? Paris and Moscow in 2 months ?

Lacking of respect to fans is certainly the worst an artist can do, and I'm afraid to say, Robert has become an expert in this art, lately. 

1989 and 1992 farewells were sincere. Now that's just ridiculous and the joke isn't funny anymore.

I'm afraid to say the level of such statements make me wish one thing : Robert should never have gone out with Eden Gallup. The boy had a really nasty influence... Because that's what it is : meaningless and useless.

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 10, 2011, 10:05:19
I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Where do you keep hearing this? I don't, certainly not here in this forum.  :?

We should not forget: Robert is a human too. Humans change their minds, they get upset at times, they say stupid things they shouldn't say etc.
Thus: Robert can go wrong, as can happen to all of us!
He is a normal person too, let's not forget that.

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).

IF Robert were to play solo, he would still sound like RS, not ND.  ;)

Anyway, if you never agree with Robert anymore, maybe time to look for someone else, someone more interesting? There's loads of good musicians out there, known and unknown.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on October 13, 2011, 13:26:29
I reacted because I'm fed up of hearing "Robert is right". Shall I recall how many times he notably went wrong ?

Where do you keep hearing this? I don't, certainly not here in this forum.  :?

I don't know why, but in a way, I was quite surprised noone answered this post before. Not that I expected a reply, but, anyway.

Look at the topic : "Trust..." 's message is exactly the type of message you get once there is a slight beginning of info about this band, interesting or bloody boring. This site is called Curefans.com, and I shouldn't argue : that's what you get from fans, and that's nice. However, a bit of objectivity never killed anyone.

I'm not asking for thesis as answers, but that's the type of post that makes me... mad. Reading "Robert is right" or whatever else without further explanation is so interesting it could as well mention "Today it's sunny" : it's just tiring and as much informative. It's even more tiring when he is so wrong, and that's what I explained in my posts.

Now, people are prone not to agree with my point of view, that's what forums are about : discussing, within the limits of politeness. I don't think I've been too rude.

We should not forget: Robert is a human too. Humans change their minds, they get upset at times, they say stupid things they shouldn't say etc.
Thus: Robert can go wrong, as can happen to all of us!
He is a normal person too, let's not forget that.

You're right about that. But mind you, he also is a public person. I'd never comment private life issues. However, when it comes to such considerations, his reaction was public. And thus, he made it possible to be discussed and commented. Why he reacted this way is his business. But then again, sorry to say that, sometimes one would better keep his month shut just to avoid being ridiculous.

Looking at the past 10 years or so, I must say I almost never agreed with his views

The only thing I now expect from this band is a split. Maybe I'll enjoy seeing Smith alone on stage with an acoustic guitar, à la Nick Drake (even if Drake never played live).

IF Robert were to play solo, he would still sound like RS, not ND.  ;)

Are you that sure ? His last real works on acoustic guitars go back to "Bloodflowers". Listen closely to this album again and you'll hear something quite intersting with the acoustic guitars parts : certainly not something you could hear in their discography before. This change of style made the music more intimist, something that could be compared to the approach they had when they recorded "17 seconds", something refreshing and new, soundwise.

I'm not saying that I expect Robert Smith to sound like Nick Drake, that would be stupid. Anyway, musicians are made of their influences and Nick Drake is one of Smith's best influence (I'm not saying it, he does). I said "à la" which doesn't mean "paste and glue".

Now, listen to "Small hours". Smith rediscovered open tunings on guitars (should remind you that Nick Drake almost exclusively played in open tunings)... To me it's one of the best songs he recorded in the last 10 years. What I expect from him is just to surprise me musically, and this song was a perfect mean to do so. It sounds different. Ok it's a cover, but then again he recorded it on his own with a drum machine and samples... That's what I meant when I said I wished he would play alone.   

As a musician, I'm quite sure people would say my style of playing is really much influenced by Robert Smith's guitar style... You can't struggle against that. Neither can Robert Smith or anyone I know, musically wise. Everyone somehow sounds like their influence, that's a rule of nature in all kinds of arts. Clever people go beyond, but always come back to their influence : that's a fuel for creativity.

Anyway, if you never agree with Robert anymore, maybe time to look for someone else, someone more interesting? There's loads of good musicians out there, known and unknown.

Ah ? Is that your best point ? How smart ! Something more to add ?

Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Do you really think my whole life depends on Robert Smith and his band ? (look at how many posts I sent since 2006, you'll understand what I mean).

Do you really think that's the only band I listen too ? It would be sad if it was the case, and fortunately it's not. By any mean, I've followed their career as a "fan" since 1981. Not that it gives me the right to speak, but at least I saw by myself (and not in biographies) the changes in this band. If I want to comment you certainly are not the type of person that would prevent me from doing so, considering this last sentence.

In my post I wrote "Once loved can't hate totally". It would be stupid for me not to enjoy the records I like(d) just because I don't like the last ones. And anyway, even if I hated the whole lot, what would prevent me from talking on this forum ? You or people using the same kind of point ? (believe me, it's really common on Cure related forums : when people have nothing more to say, that's exactly the type of methodical reasoning they use, how strange...).

Ahahahahahaha !
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 13, 2011, 16:17:11
I'm not asking for thesis as answers, but that's the type of post that makes me... mad. Reading "Robert is right" or whatever else without further explanation is so interesting it could as well mention "Today it's sunny" : it's just tiring and as much informative.

Not my problem. Don't read them is all I can say.

Are you that sure ?

No.


Ah ? Is that your best point ?

No.

How smart ! Something more to add ?

Thanks - and no, nothing to add.

Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Absolutely, I'm from Germany I must be a nazi.  :P  :lol:

Do you really think my whole life depends on Robert Smith and his band ?

No. I never thought or even hinted at that.

Do you really think that's the only band I listen too ?

No.
But you wrote such an awful lot in reply to my few sentences, wich makes the impression you take it way too important...  :roll:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on October 13, 2011, 16:36:03
Who are you to talk this way to people you don't know  ? Some kind of a Chinese censor ? A post nuclear nazi ?

Absolutely, I'm from Germany I must be a nazi.  :P  :lol:

At least, you're convinced about this point.

But you wrote such an awful lot in reply to my few sentences, wich makes the impression you take it way too important...  :roll:

I don't post that often here.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 13, 2011, 16:43:29
I don't post that often here.

I didn't say you post here often. You posted an awful lot in reply above to my few sentences, it honestly seemed almost too much for me at first glance...  :o

Btw, I just noticed that someone above posted nothing but "True words", which is not any more helpful than "Robert is always right". You didn't complain about that, strangely enough.  :lol:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on October 13, 2011, 16:58:22
I meant that I don't spend my life here reading stuff, and above all, don't spent my life here posting. It took me about 3 days to reply, because I saw your reply today.

I thanked for the "true words" statements and developped what I thought about it... Just to make things clear. 

I didn't know there was an admissible size for posts, anyway... And I return you your clever reply : don't read mine if you are not interested in them.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 13, 2011, 19:08:49
I didn't know there was an admissible size for posts, anyway... And I return you your clever reply : don't read mine if you are not interested in them.

I never said there was an "admissible size", you seem to misunderstand my posts a lot? Or is this deliberate (i.e. you don't want to understand)?

Until now I was interested in your post(s). But the discussion you started here has gone off-topic very quickly. And I replied to you directly because you hinted at having a "general problem" with Cure Fan-Forums (quote: "that's what you get from fans").
However posting your opinion about RS/Jason is a far cry from your conclusion:
"The only thing I now expect from this band is a split"

Know what I mean? I'll quote you again:
"But then again, sorry to say that, sometimes one would better keep his month shut just to avoid being ridiculous."
 ;)

To get back on-topic: RS wasn't totally wrong: Jason does get overlooked by the media in some ways. (After all he's been writing & playing drum-parts for many years. ) This just doesn't have all that much to do with the "Hall Of Fame" nominations, but I guess he had to mention it somehow...
Everything else is off-topic and should belong to other threads.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Matti on October 13, 2011, 19:34:35
Erm... Popcorn, anyone?

(SCNR)
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: lostflower4 on October 13, 2011, 23:34:09
I think the simple answer here would to be to look which members were in the band during the height of their popularity (which was from about 1985 to 1992). And who just happened to be the drummer during this period?  Coincidence?  :smth004

Jason could play in the band into his 90s and he would still never match the success that Boris achieved. The numbers are indisputable!   :!:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: cure89 on October 14, 2011, 08:54:25
Hi, I posted only a "True Words" because Adlib wrote the words I always thought. There's no reason to react pissed about anything, I think. And I must agree with lostflower4 as well. The Cure had their peak from 1985 to 1992 and after that, Robert started to batter the band. Embarrassing quitting of most talented band members, loopy records and interviews. And yes, he hired one of the most untalented and non-charismatic drummers ever. In his heart of hearts he knows that the days of an innovative and successful Cure are over. Since 2002 the band acts like a museum ... "Trilogy" (including the pipe dream that "Bloodflowers" has to be placed on a par with "Pornography" and "Disintegration"), "Festival" (OMG) and last but not least "Reflections". Not let's gossip about the re-released with the strange vocal overdubs which he/they didn't mentioned anywhere ...
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on October 14, 2011, 10:44:54
All of this is off-topic...  :lol:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: patitodark on October 20, 2011, 08:58:04
Bob gets mad but the truth is that Boris was a real drummer whereas Jason is a lucky guy who happened to get a job because WMS producer (Steve Lyon) recommended him instead of Mark Price who was the chosen one...


Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on October 20, 2011, 09:21:59
Bob gets mad but the truth is that Boris was a real drummer whereas Jason is a lucky guy who happened to get a job because WMS producer (Steve Lyon) recommended him instead of Mark Price who was the chosen one...
wow, didn't know that!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Price_(musician)#The_Cure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Price_(musician)#The_Cure)
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on October 20, 2011, 11:15:45
Can you imagine?

Phased - All About Eve (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHsJZnP6GDc#)
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: lostflower4 on October 20, 2011, 11:20:00
the percussionist of Del Amitri between 1997 and 2002

Ah, some of their music used to drive me CRAZY, and it just happened to be during this time period. So I guess I can blame Robert for the success of this band now?  :lol:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 21, 2011, 16:34:17
Rock'n'Roll Hall Of Fame is a strange kind of "award" anyway, a band can only get in if it's been "in the business" for 25 years or more. If anyone, they should mention Lol Tolhurst as a drummer, as he was in this position when the band started.  :-D

Hi, I posted only a "True Words" because Adlib wrote the words I always thought. There's no reason to react pissed about anything, I think.

Hm, like AdLib you didn't get my point: I wasn't pissed about anything. Adlib said he or she was getting mad at a post saying "Robert was right", "...without further explanation is so interesting it could as well mention "Today it's sunny" : it's just tiring and as much informative. "
Which kinda surprised to me, because judging from this point of view, your short post should've made Adlib "mad" as well, as it didn't add any further explanation...
Got it now?
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Adlib on October 21, 2011, 18:52:42
your short post should've made Adlib "mad" as well

Who told you it didn't ?

I just wonder who you consider you are to decree what's on or off topic and then reply again to something you considered being off topic... Quietly paradoxal to a cartesian mind, sorry...

I guess every point made by anyone here is off topic when it doesn't meet your own view.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on October 22, 2011, 12:08:02
Interested, Lol and Boris ranked on the Stylus Magazine’s 50 Greatest Rock Drummers (http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/stylus-magazines-50-greatest-rock-drummers.htm).

Quote
You could easily look at the switch between the Cure’s two definitive drummers as the fulcrum between the two phases of their career. Lol Tolhurst’s drumming was tight, economical, and unembellished, guiding the Cure through their post-punk and goth years with his crisp and dark playing, but by the mid-’80s, the band was moving on to bigger and better things, and brought on Boris Williams to fill in as Lol became increasingly unreliable. Williams’ drum work, pronounced, thundering and anthemic, was just what the band needed for the epic and commercially viable musical statements they’d make for the rest of the decade, through the early ‘90s. Then they brought on some other guy, and no one cared about the band again. Coincidence?
:roll:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 22, 2011, 13:11:11
Who told you it didn't ?

You, at least you never mentioned it, but you had time to ask me lots of pointless questions (which I replied to, in fun).

I just wonder who you consider you are to decree what's on or off topic and then reply again to something you considered being off topic... Quietly paradoxal to a cartesian mind, sorry...

I consider myself a member of this forum who felt the urge to tell his opinion, nothing more. You might feel the urge to do looooong off-topic posts, I might feel the urge to reply to them. Not more, not less.

Don't even know what that last sentence means, but please don't bother to tell me, as I'm not interested anymore from now on.

@admin: is there an "ignore" function in this Forum?
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on October 22, 2011, 13:25:06
Hello Ulrich,

Yes, we have that function but only for private messages.

We had discussions like this in the past and from my personal view is better to ignore certain replies because then this become a senseless discussion (which can create bad feelings and that's certanly not the purpose of this forum). Instead, I would advice to turn the page and/or focus on other's members replies...
 
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Miss_starry_eyed on January 06, 2012, 20:02:24
I really do not think that Jason Cooper is a bad drummer.  Really it's about the songs & not one singular musician.  I think Roberts point is he's been committed member longer than the others. 
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: patitodark on January 09, 2012, 07:54:42
I really do not think that Jason Cooper is a bad drummer.  Really it's about the songs & not one singular musician.  I think Roberts point is he's been committed member longer than the others.

There is a saying: "A band is only as good as it's drummer" and we know how good Jason is...

Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Hillbilley on October 19, 2016, 10:50:23
This must be a problem with a band like The Cure, who changes its line-up so often. Which members of the band should get inducted in the Hall of Fame? It is much easier for bands like The Beatles and Queen, who had the same members through out their careers.

If The Cure were to get inducted, should all past members count or just the most "important" ones, or the ones who have served the longest time span, or the ones who played on their most succesful albums etc?

Smith, Gallup and Tolhurst of course, but what about Dempsey and Hartley who only performed on one album each? Then we have the long-serving members Williams, Thompson, O'Donnell, Bamonte and Cooper.

I'm not sure about Anderson and Thornally actually being counted as official members as they were in the band for just about a year (Thornally didn't even appear on any studio album). I see Reeves Gabrels mainly as a temporary tour member, as the current line-up still hasn't (and never will?) recorded together.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on October 19, 2016, 18:41:52
This must be a problem with a band like The Cure, who changes its line-up so often. Which members of the band should get inducted in the Hall of Fame? It is much easier for bands like The Beatles and Queen, who had the same members through out their careers.

If only... ever heard about Queen on tour with their new singer(s)?  :?
And the Beatles did not have Ringo playing on their first single! Not to mention the member they left behind in Hamburg (Stu Sutcliffe).  :roll:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: tzare on April 18, 2017, 14:20:39
Hi, not an expert at all, but i really like Jason, i can't feel real difference with Boris and seems to play drums just fine, so i support him, and don't understand the hate.he is in the Band, Robert likes him, he seems to help the Cure's stability, which in the end is important if we want them to keep playing music.

for example, i find Gabrels sound , not bad, but way too 'electrical', and does not really fit sometimes, and he is quite different to how previous band members, like Pearl( i love how he plays btw) ,performed, but hey, he is in the band now, so all the support and i will eventually get used to his style.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: cheyler on April 19, 2017, 04:59:57
I agree with you, I've never been able to muster up any real enthusiasm to bash Jason.  He's a nice guy, he's able to be in the band and not wind up feuding with anyone, Robert obviously likes him.  I have to wonder if 'drummer in The Cure' is really such a coveted situation these days;  certainly not as coveted as it once might have been.  They don't play a lot of gigs, they don't record studio albums with any regularity, there's a whole lot of spare time for the guys to do basically whatever they want, they don't even have a record label at the moment.  There aren't going to be a whole lot of guys who are going to want a 'more-inactive-than-active' drumming position.  That eighty-date 'world' tour last year was serious work, their longest tour in eight years.  Do I think Jason can't put a stick wrong?  No.  I can't really complain though, because I don't know how to play drums!  Maybe I can put it this way.  Boris' playing goes into my ears more easily than Jason's playing, but very little of what Jason plays actually bugs me.  Just that bloody crash cymbal...  I'll mention Reeves because you mentioned Reeves.  When he first joined, I thought his playing was totally unsuitable and I stopped collecting and listening to shows from 2012 to 2014.  When I heard they were doing a tour, I downloaded some shows and surprise surprise!  They must have really worked on getting Reeves better integrated into the 'Cure Sound' during the second half of 2014 and 2015 because suddenly I really do think Reeves fits in well with The Cure.  I will ALWAYS miss Porl, but I have to admit to myself that he's never coming back.  And, unfortunately, I'll never be able to like The Cure as much as I once did because of that.  Actually, that last statement is unfair to Reeves.  I'm sort of saying that no matter what he does, EVER, it'll never be good enough for me.  I like Reeves, I really do.  He's a nice guy, he works hard, he's versatile, he's intelligent, and he's inventive.  The only thing I really cannot forgive is that he played with Bowie.  I'm sorry, but there ARE limits...
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on April 19, 2017, 11:40:30
Hi, not an expert at all, but i really like Jason, i can't feel real difference with Boris

Now that is something I can't follow...
(I was against all the Jason bashing, but Boris has his own style!)
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: tzare on April 19, 2017, 12:17:00
I think that we have to consider that the band has always been changing its members,and i really like all of them, all have contributed in one way or another to the band.
And even if I can't not appreciate the differences between Jason and Boris, or Boris and Lol, or Reeves and Pearl (besides the more 'electrical ' sound)  because my lack of musical knowledge, and others can, and are free to critic, of course, i think that the positives are more important than the negatives and that won't change anything, if Robert thinks Jason and Revees fit the band, they will be part of the Cure and this is what we have, so no point in bashing X member because 'reasons'. I was reading some comments yesterday on Youtube , and it was embarrassing, i mean, almost football hooligan level.

Btw, i wonder why there are almost no interviews with band members, i'd love to know more about them, even Robert does not appear often, i've been looking for recent material (i'm a bit late to the party , since i had not listened to Cure for 5-6 years now, and trying to update now)

Quote
Now that is something I can't follow...
(I was against all the Jason bashing, but Boris has his own style!)
i can't tell the difference, honestly, and not sure if i want, because sometimes ignorance means being happier  :P
And now that i am older, i just want to enjoy the band.
The only thing i have noticed, but couldn't say exactly what it is, is that both The Cure and 4:13 albums sound , strange, not 'clear', but i do not know if is due to how the records were mixed or another reason. And the live material i've heard, and the two times i've seen them live, 2008 and 2016 with Jason, they sounded great(i remember no keyboards in 2008, so some songs were a little different). I've only seen the band live with Boris once, and i enjoyed it too.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on April 19, 2017, 14:30:33
i can't tell the difference, honestly

That's a bit worrying. Listen to the excellent drum parts on the "Kiss Me..." album! :smth020
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: tzare on April 19, 2017, 14:46:31
I love Kiss me album, it is excellent, my favorite album, and everything is great, but what should i compare it to? Live Kiss Me songs performed by Jason or songs from Bloodflowers/The Cure/4:13?

pd. just to improve my knowledge, i will still find Jason great :P (he looks a really nice guy, just like Perry, Roger or Simon :) )

pd2. the only thing i could say is the sound on old albums seems 'better': instruments can be appreciated more,  sound is clearer, that could be a reason to appreciate more the drums.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on April 19, 2017, 15:42:10
Someone once said a band is only as good as its drummer... and when you look at The Cure, the height of the band was in 1989 (or 1992 if we talk about live concerts). There was something different in Boris that made The Cure the band that is it now. Don't get my wrong, Jason is a respectable and very good drummer and I love The Cure concerts and I saw them last year and I think they're terrific, but the band was never the same after Boris's departure.

I recently saw Slowdive and you had to see the passion of the drummer, how the -already- great songs are even greater live. You could see how a drummer can make a difference in a band (and I don't talk about The Cure now)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99IuR-jtD_k

An article worth reading

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2007/oct/23/drummers
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Oh No on April 19, 2017, 17:06:51
I never was a big fan of Cooper to be honest. The Cure used to have this sense of intelligence in the rythm, even when Lol played, it was minimal, to the point. Jason doesnt have that. But I recently watched a show they did to promote WildMoodSwings and his style made sense with these songs. Especially the upbeat ones like Round and Round. It's actually excellent!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqgNNg9I8lE&list=PL6QrQt2mAGg9sDfwwbZ2V7gv-kQ7dFbZj
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on April 19, 2017, 17:09:18
I love Kiss me album, it is excellent, my favorite album, and everything is great, but what should i compare it to?

Try and focus on Boris' inventive drum patterns next time you listen. You can of course compare to live versions with Jason if you wish to do so...

Someone once said a band is only as good as its drummer...

Who? I guess it was a drummer...  :lol:
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: dsanchez on April 19, 2017, 17:36:22
Someone once said a band is only as good as its drummer...
Who? I guess it was a drummer...  :lol:

Bobby Gillespie, singer from Primal Scream ;)

Quote
A band that doesn’t have a reliable, secure, expressive, and dynamic drummer is a band that has a weak foundation. It’s a band that doesn’t have a backbone. And when you think about it, no one can survive well without a backbone

http://teach2teach.com/2016/11/3-sturdy-reasons-drummer-back-bone-band/
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on April 19, 2017, 18:56:29
Bobby Gillespie, singer from Primal Scream ;)

He claims it's his quote, but it's probably not.  :P

Never liked them, is their drummer to blame?  :?
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: cheyler on April 19, 2017, 20:51:13

Quote
Now that is something I can't follow...
(I was against all the Jason bashing, but Boris has his own style!)
i can't tell the difference, honestly, and not sure if i want, because sometimes ignorance means being happier  :P
And now that i am older, i just want to enjoy the band.


I go back and forth, sometimes I think "This sucks and everybody needs to know it right now!" and sometimes I think "It's just...different.  Enjoy it differently."  That doesn't work all that often though, unfortunately.  They are really playing well live at the moment, so I'm hoping there's a live album in the offing.  If not, the recording of the Mountain View show is good enough for me!
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: tzare on April 20, 2017, 10:46:00
Quote from: Ulrich

Try and focus on Boris' inventive drum patterns next time you listen. You can of course compare to live versions with Jason if you wish to do so...

I've done this, and yes, drums are great, but the whole album is genius. I find it difficult to concentrate on the drums alone though, the songs just flow and the instruments melt into each other , but yes, the parts i could 'isolate' are great.
That said i tried to listen to the latest albums,with Jason,  and i don't know, maybe it is the mixing or how the albums were edited, but sound kinda dull, maybe that is the way is meant to be, but instruments on Bloodflowers, The Cure and 4:13 are difficult to listen them individually, those albums do not sound crisp, clear. So hard to appreciate the drums, too much noise. Very different than the previous studio albums.
Quote
Someone once said a band is only as good as its drummer... and when you look at The Cure, the height of the band was in 1989 (or 1992 if we talk about live concerts)
I do not think it is due to the drummer, but just the music. After Wish the albums are different, not necessarily worse, but each album before WIsh had its own unique personality, that is why i find so difficult to choose one over another, because Faith has nothing to do with Kiss Me or Disintegration or The top. However from Bloodfowers and on, all albums sound kinda 'samey', not as inspired, maybe. I don't think that Jason is the cause, but more of a victim of the sound that Robert is pursuing with the last records.
Quote
I go back and forth, sometimes I think "This sucks and everybody needs to know it right now!" and sometimes I think "It's just...different.  Enjoy it differently."  That doesn't work all that often though, unfortunately.  They are really playing well live at the moment
Well, if they are playing well now then jason is doing well too. I guess. I didn't follow the band that much lately, and didn't have info about the reasons some members went and others came,  so i am updating myself with info so i may be wrong, but it seems that Jason was really 'amateur' when joined the band so his role was probably just play whatever he was told, instead of having a more active input like Boris that had experience. ANd he has probably kept that role, just following Robert's directives.

That said, i also read that Perry wasn't a great guitarist, but many, including myself, really liked him so i still think that people are unfair with Jason compared to other members of the band.  Imagine yourself , young, being able to play in the band of your dreams, i would do everything Robert told me to do  :P
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: Ulrich on April 20, 2017, 13:20:42
I've done this, and yes, drums are great, but the whole album is genius. I find it difficult to concentrate on the drums alone though, the songs just flow and the instruments melt into each other , but yes, the parts i could 'isolate' are great.

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for taking the time and glad you were able to enjoy Boris' drumming!  :)

That said i tried to listen to the latest albums,with Jason,  and i don't know, maybe it is the mixing or how the albums were edited, but sound kinda dull, maybe that is the way is meant to be, but instruments on Bloodflowers, The Cure and 4:13 are difficult to listen them individually...

Jason's drumming on the title track for "Bloodflowers" is very good (imho)!!
Also there are good drum tracks on e.g. "The Promise". I agree the production/mix on "4:13" is a bit "unclear".
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: patitodark on May 26, 2017, 17:17:13
I do not think it is due to the drummer, but just the music. After Wish the albums are different, not necessarily worse, but each album before WIsh had its own unique personality, that is why i find so difficult to choose one over another, because Faith has nothing to do with Kiss Me or Disintegration or The top. However from Bloodfowers and on, all albums sound kinda 'samey', not as inspired, maybe. I don't think that Jason is the cause, but more of a victim of the sound that Robert is pursuing with the last records.

Boris left more space/air/musical gaps in his drum compositions (yes, they were well-thought compositions as Modern Drummer magazine correctly identified) so the other guys could do their thing. The drums and percussions had their own presence, an ORDER and place in The Cure.
Jason's drumming is just a time-keeping kind of playing, messy most of the time. They have nothing special as i.e. the drum patterns in If only tonight we could sleep, Last Dance, Sinking, High, All cats are grey (Lol Tolhurst on drums)...

And the drummer DOES make a difference. Do you know that Just like heaven, in it's initial phase- was slow and very different? but Boris speed it up and did that simple but powerful intro and fill that made Robert to make adjustments and INSPIRED him to come up with their most popular song up to date.

So, a drummer with a solid idea of what to do, CAN make a difference and INSPIRE the other members of the band.
Title: Re: Robert on Jason Cooper
Post by: tzare on May 29, 2017, 12:51:56
Boris left more space/air/musical gaps in his drum compositions (yes, they were well-thought compositions as Modern Drummer magazine correctly identified) so the other guys could do their thing. The drums and percussions had their own presence, an ORDER and place in The Cure.
Jason's drumming is just a time-keeping kind of playing, messy most of the time. They have nothing special as i.e. the drum patterns in If only tonight we could sleep, Last Dance, Sinking, High, All cats are grey (Lol Tolhurst on drums)...

And the drummer DOES make a difference. Do you know that Just like heaven, in it's initial phase- was slow and very different? but Boris speed it up and did that simple but powerful intro and fill that made Robert to make adjustments and INSPIRED him to come up with their most popular song up to date.

So, a drummer with a solid idea of what to do, CAN make a difference and INSPIRE the other members of the band.

I found this article, which i find quite spot on:

http://oneweekoneband.tumblr.com/post/26946358500/drums-jason-cooper

As i said, my opinion, from someone that just likes the cure and not an expert (if that really exists in such a subjective matter) , is that Boris may be a better drummer,or more creative, or maybe has had the chance to influence Robert much more -or Robert allowed it , at least reading some interviews, including a recent one from Lol talking about the KMx3 era, the band had more inputs and influences from all the members,  instead of just being mainly Robert and then the rest- but that does not mean Jason is a bad drummer.
At all.

In fact after listening to the latest albums with similar attention i did with the others when those were released, i can now confirm that are very are good, and underrated. There are a lot of fantastic songs ,and also the drums are great too, the only think is kinda off is the mixing, the sound isn't as clear as in previous albums when you could 'isolate' the instruments somehow.

 And while i still think KMx3 is the best album of the band, Boris era, each studio album is quite different from the others and, Robert has had different personal situations that may have inspired in one way or another so maybe he did not allow Jason (and the others) to have much influence in the latest ones.Who knows.

And live... they sound great. So no complains. As i won't complain about Gabrels despite i  think Porl was better... or maybe he wasn't and i am just biased too. I mean, the band is what they are now. And hopefully we may have a new album and a new tour, probably the last. So enjoy!