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Off-Topic => Something else => Topic started by: dsanchez on February 23, 2020, 23:47:08

Title: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on February 23, 2020, 23:47:08
QuoteMore than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover, 14% have severe disease including pneumonia and shortness of breath, 5% have critical disease including respiratory failure, septic shock and multi-organ failure, and 2% of cases are fatal," Tedros said in Geneva. "The risk of death increases the older you are.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/17/coronavirus-causes-mild-disease-in-four-in-five-patients-says-who
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on February 29, 2020, 16:02:23
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 01, 2020, 10:06:12
Thanks for these factual-based postings (very unlike many "panic" postings in other forums over the world)!  :smth023
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 01, 2020, 14:03:26
Yeah, we both got swine flu back in the day and it was just a mild illness for us, no respiratory symptoms, just muscle ache and fatigue.  The interesting thing about this one was that after a week, it got better, then disappeared and you thought that was it, and then it would come back again, for a couple of rotations.

Whereas last year we had a non-mass-media publicised strain of influenza that knocked us for six and we were both bedridden with it for an entire fortnight, which has never happened to us before.  Took another month to get over properly and was the worst flu by far we ever had.  The severity profile for coronavirus is about the same as for a moderately bad strain of flu - most people won't be very ill, some will be, and a couple out of every 100 that get it (especially elderly, very young or immunocompromised) will die from it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 04, 2020, 11:39:00
Text only in German, from a column at "gmx.de", sad but true:

Quote...im globalen Dorf grassiert das Coronafieber. Und die Dorfbewohner - angeführt von ihren Leitmedien - nähern sich kollektiv dem Gemütszustand einer milden Winterpanik. Menschliche Sensationsgier und mediale Übertreibungslust haben mit vereinten Kräften eine Psychose herbeigeführt, gegen die das Gegengift der Aufklärung derzeit keine Chancen hat. Die Zahl der Corona-Live-Ticker auf den Online-Portalen übertrifft deutlich die Zahl der Verdachtsfälle. Die Vernunft steht weltweit unter Quarantäne.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 05, 2020, 09:25:25
Well, this is in English - funny but true.  ;)  :D

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/01/report-outbreak-of-idiocy-spreading-10000-times-faster-than-coronavirus/

QuotePublic health officials in Toronto have confirmed its first 50,000 cases of being a misinformed fuckwit as xenophobic conspiracy theories and tales of false cures continue to spread across social media.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 06, 2020, 09:21:15
Thanks for that hilarious link, @Ulrich!   :smth023  :cool


QuotePatients are usually asymptomatic (for stupidity) until they open their mouths or start tweeting.

:lol:


QuoteOur epidemiologists are working hard to identify idiot zero, but there might be more sporadic outbreaks of coronavirus-related imbecility," added Dr. Smith.

Meanwhile, health officials are dreading teaching the population a complicated prevention technique: washing your hands.

:rofl

PS: If idiocy exasperates you, here's two great antidotes:

The Darwin Awards:  https://darwinawards.com/

The IgNobel Awards:  https://www.improbable.com/ig-about/winners/
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 08, 2020, 14:30:25

Things are getting weird.
Here's a fight that took place in an Australian supermarket... about toilet paper 🙄
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 08, 2020, 14:58:11
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 08, 2020, 14:30:25Here's a fight that took place in an Australian supermarket... about toilet paper 🙄

stupid people everywhere...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 08, 2020, 17:59:40
Quote from: dsanchez on March 08, 2020, 14:58:11stupid people everywhere...

Yeah, plus it makes me wonder: why do they need toilet paper? When they got their trousers full already...  :P
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 09, 2020, 04:05:41
Honestly, it's ridiculous.  This morning we went grocery shopping and the entire aisle of toilet paper was sold out.  I think people are confusing coronavirus with cholera, and expecting rampant diarrhoea and/or toilet paper manufacturing shortages.  We didn't need any toilet paper anyway because we always buy bulk packs because it's more cost-effective and uses less packaging (due to the reduced surface area to volume ratio of bulk packs).

The authorities have simply suggested having two weeks' worth of groceries, hygiene and medical supplies, mostly in case you get ill and should then stay at home (coronavirus or not - people should really do this with any flu or cold but do they, oh no, they go spread it charitably to all their workmates and go sneezing along in supermarkets instead of staying home in bed with a book and a mug of tea until they stop shedding pathogens, and if people didn't do that, there'd be over 80% less people catching cold and flu).

The other thing supermarkets are running out of here is bulk packs of rice.  Apparently, people expect they'll be wiping their bottoms more than usual and eating lots of risotto when the outbreak hits Australia.  Brett thought a legitimate reason for Australians wiping their bottoms more than usual is that several years ago, we overtook America as the most obese country in the world, so he says there are now more square centimeters of bottom to wipe per individual on average.

By the way, it wouldn't matter if we were unable to buy toilet paper for a year, or ever again.  We have compost toilets and are always looking for ways to repurpose worn-out cotton or linen shirts or bedsheets.  You can cut these into squares and used them as handkerchiefs, for example, and I have some really pretty hankies made from my favourite worn-out pyjama pants, with clouds all over them.  Natural fabrics do very well in a compost toilet system - but don't try to flush them down conventional toilets (you can, however, treat them like you would cloth nappies, and I know some hippies who do this as a matter of course).

Toilet paper is actually a relatively recent invention.  A hundred years ago, in Australia, most people were using squares of old newspaper hung off a nail in their outhouses.  Kids used to cut the newspapers into squares and hole-punch them.  It's not as if this wouldn't be possible to do again.  I don't understand why people don't think laterally and use their imaginations...

...and use their commonsense and not spread illnesses around just because they're not the current sensational news...  :1f62b:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 09, 2020, 09:17:12
How many cases does Australia have anyway?
I mean it's still late summer (early autumn) there? Because they say in Europe, with spring coming and the sun and UV rays intensifying, the hope is that the virus won't spread that easily any more.
(Which, btw, makes open air festivals in summer likely to happen.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 09, 2020, 12:06:22
Quote from: Ulrich on March 09, 2020, 09:17:12I mean it's still late summer (early autumn) there? Because they say in Europe, with spring coming and the sun and UV rays intensifying, the hope is that the virus won't spread that easily any more.

if it's like the flu, it might be like that, fingers crossed!

QuoteThe flu season in the U.S. can begin as early as October, but usually does not get into full swing until December. The season generally reaches its peak in February and ends in March (2). In the southern hemisphere, however, where winter comes during our summer months, the flu season falls between June and September. In other words, wherever there is winter, there is flu (3). In fact, even its name, "influenza" may be a reference to its original Italian name, influenza di freddo, meaning "influence of the cold" (4).

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2014/the-reason-for-the-season-why-flu-strikes-in-winter/
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 09, 2020, 12:44:39
Quote from: Ulrich on March 09, 2020, 09:17:12How many cases does Australia have anyway?
I mean it's still late summer (early autumn) there?

In WA, a handful, brought in by travellers, so far mostly confined to being transmitted to spouses, while in self-isolation:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-09/fifth-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-wa/12038696

Traditionally though, cold and flu season will start around May here, so that's when new viruses like this too will be expected to spike.

PS:  One of my honorary sisters just sent me this:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIF.Br43nfTKfvJyj0XuhtnqTg%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

ROFL :lol:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 10, 2020, 11:59:57
Sue your location in rural WA Australia is likely to be useful in such a situation as this! :)

Australia today has 100people diagnosed with Coronavirus, and while most are travellers from overseas there has now been cases of local transmission.  NSW has greatest number (54). Here in Australia there's 18 cases.

Yes David the flu season seems relevant ... Here's something I read today
"A plan published by the Victorian Government to outline its response to the outbreak, says modelling shows a coronavirus pandemic is likely to coincide with Australia's flu season.
It says "the effects of both diseases may be felt simultaneously".

The Victorian Premier spoke today.
https://www.abc.net.au (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-10/victorian-premier-daniel-andrews-on-coronavirus-pandemic-plans/12042780)
His statements give the impression some big changes are likely to occur in coming weeks, at least in the state I'm in.
...this is all feeling a bit surreal

What's happening in places where the rest of you live?
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 10, 2020, 12:23:37
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 10, 2020, 11:59:57Sue your location in rural WA Australia is likely to be useful in such a situation as this! :)

It would be if we didn't have to go anywhere!  :)  But my husband works at a medical practice and is bound to be exposed sooner or later, since general medical practices don't have the same biosecurity as places like Ebola units in specialist hospitals.  Their general precautions, including making patients with respiratory symptoms wear masks in the waiting room (which they have done for years), cuts down the rate of illness amongst staff, but staff still get ill on a fairly regular basis (and that's despite flu shots, which aren't perfect, and don't cover colds etc either).

Added to that, we host international travellers in our farmstay on a regular basis.

So I think it's only a matter of time before at least one of us gets it, but the longer we can delay that (hand-washing and other hygiene precautions, avoiding crowds etc), the better - and it would be great if a vaccine came out in the interim.  Eventually, COVID-19 will be like the "older" viruses and the population will get some immunity to it (coronaviruses aren't new, just COVID-19 is).

We both got Influenza A H1N1 (Swine flu) about a decade ago, but it was a pretty mild illness for us.  We're hoping that we'd be in the 80% of the population for whom COVID-19 is a mild illness - and the best way to increase our chances of that is to stay healthy and fit and eat well, sleep well etc, so that our immune systems are in good order, like they were for H1N1.

Best wishes to all of you!  :cool

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 10, 2020, 14:04:42
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 10, 2020, 11:59:57What's happening in places where the rest of you live?

Not a lot in towns/cities nearby.
There was a case a while ago in Goeppingen (person had been abroad), he had been to the cinema - they found all the people from his row and close; but no-one was tested positive on C. (In the meantime, this person has left the hospital and spends a few days at home, before restarting "normal life".)

In other parts of Germany it's worse. Some schools closed, some companies too. Exhibitions and conferences are being cancelled by the minute... Hotels etc. already experience low bookings.

Some Politicians say any events with more than 1000 people should be cancelled. (This will eventually be decided by local authorities.)

(On a sidenote: we will just have to wait and see whether any big festivals in spring/summer won't happen. This is for the organisers and/or local authorities to decide.)

In Italy, whole areas are being closed off. People are being told to stay at home. Austria closed border to Italy.

Stock exchange reacted nervously (as usual, when anything happens)... :1f629:

Edit: news just in is that at this point in time there are more people in Germany who recovered from C. than people who're sick.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 10, 2020, 14:21:03
I was thinking, are there any special tricks any of you use to reduce your risk of catching infections, other than the recommended practices the health authorities remind us of every flu season?  Official recommendations are generally about reducing the rate of pathogen transmission from one person to another.  I'm thinking of things you might do to help your immune system work effectively (e.g. stress reduction methods that work well for you - like meditation, @word_on_a_wing? - and particular attention to healthy eating, etc).

When I broke three bones in my foot 18 months ago, I was seriously worried.  I'm in my late 40s, one of the fractures was displaced, bones in the hands and feet are notoriously hard to heal, and the average recovery time for this injury was posted at 12 - 16 weeks, if you're under 40 and in good health.  I was in good health, but not under 40, and since serious walking and hiking is one of my major hobbies, the idea of ending up with any sorts of complications that would affect my walking was a real concern to me.  So I read up on specialist nutrition for bone healing and found that the majority of Australians are now running borderline Vitamin D deficiencies because of slip/slop/slap (avoiding sun exposure) becoming widely adopted.  This is an issue for immunity, and also for bone healing.  Also, it's important if you're trying to mend bones quickly, that you have the necessary amino acids available in your bloodstream - miss one, and the whole process is interrupted until the missing link arrives.  So I made sure I had small amounts of complete protein at every meal (eggs, dairy, meat, fish, the right combinations of plant proteins), and that my snacks included complete proteins as well; and I took Vitamin D supplements, as well as betacarotene, Vitamin C, and Vitamin E, on top of having a disgustingly healthy diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts and berries, and wholemeal everything, and avoiding excessive sugar / added sugar etc.

I stayed hydrated (lots of green tea) and got extra sleep and rest - and I worked very hard to maintain my fitness in my one-legged state.  I bought an iWALK 2.0 (see https://iwalk-free.com/product-introduction/) on recommendation of an online friend so that I could walk around on that hands-free, so that I'd not have to rehabilitate my affected leg from the knee up, just from the knee down, once I was allowed to bear weight again.  If you're on crutches, you're not using the major muscle groups in your body, so it's hard to stay fit, and you're making yourself susceptible to secondary injuries to your shoulders and hands.

Anyway, every time I went to the fracture clinic for another review (two-week intervals), my orthopaedic consultant was super happy with how I was healing up.  At 5 weeks post-fracture I was starting partial weight-bearing indoors because my body felt ready, and at my 6-week appointment I was officially cleared for full weight-bearing and told I could wear hiking boots instead of that astronaut boot you're in for early recovery - and the specialist brought in some juniors and spoke glowingly of my recovery, which was way ahead of expectations - "She just does all the right things!  I wish all patients were like this!"  The consultant physiotherapist said, "Great!  You won't need me - but here's some exercises you can do that you may not have thought of!"

That night I went home, and my husband and I did a 5km walk at rapid pace, in which I used my crutches in the manner of ski poles, like Nordic walking - so that I could support my injured foot in the breakover phase, and get properly out of breath at the same time.  This became daily routine, and by 8 weeks breakover didn't hurt anymore and I no longer used the crutches (and I also got back on my horse that week).  Then we started hill training, and by 10 weeks we were back in the mountains.  Compare that to the 12-16 week projected recovery time...

I'm using that as an example to illustrate that there's a lot we can do to help our bodies cope with various challenges, and that this makes a real difference.  I'm going to be adopting a similar nutrition protocol as for bone healing, for boosting my immunity and general health, during this virus season.  Last year I didn't do that, because I got careless, and ended up with a bad flu, and then one thing after the other.  That's not fun, and that's not how I'm going to do it this year.

Because I worked in high schools for 15 years, and initially picked up lots of colds and flus (infectious disease central, plus 60-hour high-stress weeks), a doctor at the time gave me some advice that really worked for me.  One, don't touch your face, don't scratch any itches, etc - and wash your hands a lot.  Two, try using a cold-sore prevention formula because it has benefits for fighting a range of viruses other than the herpes simplex virus it officially addresses.  It's Vitamin C, zinc and lysine.  Blackmores do one called Lyp-Sine; chemists do generic copies.  I was to take one a day; but go to full dose at the slightest niggle in my throat etc.  This reduced the incidence of getting cold or flu to less than one a year for me, and nothing very severe.  So, unless these things are out of stock, I'm going to do that again as well.

And, if you're getting ill, go to bed with a cup of tea and a book - don't wait for it to get bad first.  That way, you can fight it better and recover faster.

Anyone else here have things that have worked for them?
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 11, 2020, 09:13:51
Among all the news from Germany, Italy etc. it almost disappears, but yesterday I read: China reports that it had only 19 new cases. Which sounds like it's getting better there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 11, 2020, 10:02:53
Here's a recent update on the Australian (and general) situation by Dr Norman Swan, who runs our health report on the ABC. This is a decent, non-sensationalised source. Short video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-09/dr-norman-swan-with-a-coronavirus-reality-check/12040538
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 11, 2020, 11:22:08
"I'm thinking of things you might do to help your immune system work effectively (e.g. stress reduction methods that work well for you - like meditation, @word_on_a_wing? - and particular attention to healthy eating, etc)."

I'd lean more towards a pranayam (breathing) practice. A good one is here:

Pranayam  (https://www.spiritrisingyoga.org/kundalini-info/breath-of-fire)

Thanks for the tip about VitC, Zinc and Lysine. I have been taking VitC but not the others- will look out for it.

I find ginger helps. Either by simmering fresh ginger to make tea, or to juice it with vegetables such as carrot, beetroot, and celery.

I also find plenty Of SLEEP essential  ...I tend to get sick if I haven't been getting enough


Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 11, 2020, 12:31:19
Yeah, I totally second ginger, I find that really helpful too, @word_on_a_wing (and that juice combination sounds delicious :yum:)!  I make a ginger-nut-citrus-wholemeal flour-honey cake I eat instead of muesli bars, which are not particularly healthy food (although you can make your own with a reasonable nutritional profile).  I make that with freshly grated ginger, and we also throw a lot of ginger in our stir-fries.  I put it in my Chai tea (which I make with star anise, cloves, cardamon pods and thin slices of root ginger added to green tea) and Brett puts it in his black tea.   Oh, and he was trawling through a soup book and found the most delicious carrot-ginger soup which I'm happy to post the recipe for (we could start a whole thread!), it's so nice, and such a pick-me-up!

I know you're vegetarian, but a friend 20 years ago gave me her recipe for Thai beef salad which to me is like resurrection food - the dressing is chock full of lemon and lime juice, olive oil, garlic, fresh leaf coriander, mint and fish sauce, and has lemongrass and chilli in it too.  I wonder if you could apply that dressing to another salad with an acceptable vegetarian source of complete protein that would complement it in flavour.  Anyway, apart from obviously beef strips, the original has red onion, lots of snowpeas, whatever other salad vegetables you like (cucumber goes well here), and freshly ground pepper in the mix.

Another favourite pick-me-up food is Moroccan Harira, which I make both vegetarian and lamb versions of.  Again, loads of vegetables and herbs, plus lentils and chickpeas - it's traditional Ramadan food, to see people through daytime fasting, so it's got to be very nutritious to do that.

Food is definitely medicinal if done well.  :cool

And I fall apart unless I have 8 - 9 hours of sleep a night (or equivalent daytime naps in summer, when I get up early).

Thanks for the breathing thoughts! :)  Whenever I've done yoga or Pilates classes, my teacher was always telling us how important that is!  And that's probably another reason why singing in a choir is so good for you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 12, 2020, 01:22:36
@word_on_a_wing and I have both noticed that Australians are emptying stores of toilet paper.  This led another Australian on my other forum to post a picture I wish to share:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2F1s%2F2020%2F03%2F03%2F22%2F25501880-8071359-image-a-12_1583275201951.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

It's sourced from this thread: https://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/covid-19-different-containment-approaches-around-812919/

It's a pretty good discussion, not just for its humour and commonsense, but because we have participants who are emergency department nurses, translators of pulmonary medicine papers, etc etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 13, 2020, 12:04:29
Most concerts and other events for March and April have been cancelled here in southern Germany.
Let's hope in May things will be back to a little bit more "normal".
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 13, 2020, 12:56:32
Same, in Australia as of Monday there will be cancellations of gatherings of more than 500 people (so this includes music and sports events).

I have a ticket to see New Order tomorrow night, in a 13,000 capacity venue. They cancelled the show the following night but not tomorrow. The one tomorrow night is outdoors, and I have a seat (so won't be squashed between people) so that gives me some peace of mind.

But I'm really debating whether to go or not ...really not keen to get the virus and risk spreading it to others (particularly my older parents). 
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 13, 2020, 18:01:53
They just closed the country...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/slovakia-closes-borders-for-non-residents-to-fight-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 13, 2020, 18:33:27
In Stuttgart, all bars, clubs, museums etc. are being closed. (Exception: restaurants.)
(We'll have to see for how long.)
Schools here will be closed from Monday until April 18th.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 13, 2020, 19:47:38
Made me laugh

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESe9W3QU8AAGTVk?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 14, 2020, 12:12:07
Humorous things are circulating...

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fthefunnybeaver.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F03%2Fcoronavirus-gollum.jpg%3Fresize%3D835%252C700%26ssl%3D1&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 14, 2020, 13:15:54
Today in Bratislava...

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 15, 2020, 01:04:26
I'm a member of the grassroots people-power political organisation GetUp which is fighting the corporate buy-off of our democracy in Australia, and other nasty phenomena like that.  I was very pleased to find the line they are taking in this email to all members on COVID-19 in my inbox this morning, and thought I would share it because it's good advice.


QuoteThrough the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, our movement of over a million people needs to respond with love and compassion for everyone in our community. Whether it's checking on your neighbours, standing up to racism and stigma or proactively taking measures to reduce the spread - we all have a role to play. Can you stand with me, help protect our communities, fight misinformation and encourage care? Keep reading to find out how.

----

Sue,

This is one of the biggest challenges we've faced.

As coronavirus continues to spread across Australia, I know that the coming days and weeks will be tough and full of uncertainty for so many of us.

For older Australians and people with underlying health conditions, for whom this virus is very serious.1

For casual, gig economy, and contract workers who are still being pushed to choose between putting their colleagues at risk and putting food on the table.

For those on income support struggling to get everyday items from supermarkets as panic buying worsens.2

For the Chinese and Asian communities who are facing growing racism and xenophobia, being harrassed in the streets, online and even at work.3

It's clear that in times like this, we need to respond as a community, care for each other and do what we can to help. From calling neighbours who might need the company, to proactively practicing social distancing to minimise the spread.

As a million-strong people-powered movement, what we do now matters. For those of us that can afford to take extra precautions, let's do a bit more. Together, we can protect our communities, fight misinformation and instead encourage care for our neighbours.

Head here to get the latest health information and updates, and share with your family and friends:
https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/covid-19/coronavirus-what-you-need-to-know/coronavirus-what-you-need-to-know?t=KEXRXcMAn&utm_campaign=Coronavirus&utm_content=28683&utm_medium=email&utm_source=blast

Right now, everyday heroes, helpers and public institutions are stepping up. From our dedicated healthcare workers on the frontline, to vital updates and coverage from the ABC and CSIRO scientists working to help develop a vaccine.4

These coming weeks and months are about those of us who can, doing a little more. It's about:

Responding as a community
Whether it's calling out racism towards the Chinese community, or taking extra precautions to keep yourself and family away from events and crowds to stop the spread. This is a time for solidarity.

Caring for ourselves and each other
Through this time, we need to support each other. Calling elderly neighbours, making sure people who are self-isolating have supplies and (digital) company, doing what we can to minimise the spread and minimise the risk for those most vulnerable.

Calling out misinformation
The tabloids and social media continue to spread misinformation and fear. Together, we need to call this out, and make sure it's the sensible advice from medical experts that dominate.


We know that coronavirus has already had a huge impact on the economy, but the government's stimulus package doesn't go far enough in boosting the social safety net for the people who need it most. We'll be working on this now and in the lead up to the May budget to make sure the budget responses to this crisis are focused on those that need it most.

Whatever comes next, we're all in this together. Now is the time for solidarity. Now is the time to come together with love and compassion.

Onwards,

Paul for the GetUp team

P.S As coronavirus continues to unfold, we want to hear from you Sue about how the GetUp community can be supporting each other, and what we can be doing to help. Can you take this short, 2 minute survey and let us know what you think?

P.P.S I keep thinking about the words of World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, "We're in this together, to do the right things with calm and protect the citizens of the world. It's doable."

References:
[1] Q&A on coronaviruses (COVID-19), World Health Organisation, 9 March 2020.
[2] 'Selfish' stockpiling of cheap food staples is hurting low-income earners, The New Daily, 6 March 2020.
[3] As coronavirus fears spread, Chinese restaurants are reporting an 80pc drop in business, ABC, 13 February 2020.
[4] Working against the new coronavirus, CSIRO, 13 March 2020.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 15, 2020, 02:27:39
I just heard the Sydney Vivid festival has been cancelled for this year.  ...So thankful all this wasn't happening this time last year (Disintegration! 🙌)


I decided not to go to the New Order concert last night. I have been feeling very fatigued/run-down so thought it best to play it safe and get more rest. 
When I see photos/videos of last night gig I think it was the right choice: thousands of people, very packed.
If it had been The Cure it would have likely been a different situation (as I'm a much bigger fan of The Cure than New Order)... that would have been a difficult choice.

It was interesting to see all the discussions on the Twitter feed of New Order and the tour promoter (Frontier) yesterday. Many people were getting quite outraged, saying it was irresponsible to let the concert go ahead; whereas others were very thankful it wasn't cancelled.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 15, 2020, 07:16:57
First Dog On The Moon:

(https://media.guim.co.uk/63e09a3ad2e511f290839420b804a07a124764df/0_0_3508_6087/3508.jpg)

...from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/26/coronavirus-is-very-bad-and-needs-to-be-avoided-here-are-some-handy-hints-to-stick-on-your-fridge-and-forget
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 15, 2020, 12:54:46
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 15, 2020, 02:27:39It was interesting to see all the discussions on the Twitter feed of New Order and the tour promoter (Frontier) yesterday. Many people were getting quite outraged, saying it was irresponsible to let the concert go ahead; whereas others were very thankful it wasn't cancelled.

Yeah, that happens all over the place. On FB I am befriended with a promoter (doing small-scale gigs in clubs with 150 guests mostly, only rarely a bigger show of up to 1000), one guy was kinda "attacking" him for not listening to his advice of taking a break for 2 months (the authorities have now closed all clubs anyway, so he was right to wait for something "official"; there were no gigs planned for these last few days anyway). That one guy now considers this "irresponsible" - it turned it he never goes to these concerts as he lives elsewhere... in my eyes this behaviour is pretty close to "trolling" (I'd have removed him my from my list).  :unamused:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 16, 2020, 10:26:01
Bratislava during the coronavirus outbreak (filmed with my GoPro)

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 16, 2020, 12:42:29
A really interesting simulation that show the effect of social distancing. After watching this I understand it much more, and why it works better than quarantine...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 16, 2020, 14:14:58
That's a fabulous link, @word_on_a_wing!  Thanks for posting.   :smth023

I just logged on to suggest a piece of jewellery that might help with social distancing.   :angel

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.H78PGjVcEYWwBMXfz_3DkgHaJ_%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

It will keep people at arm's length, and give you a steady supply of antivirals / immune boosters / miscellaneous nutrients to munch on...  :winking_tongue
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 16, 2020, 15:37:36
Quote from: dsanchez on March 16, 2020, 10:26:01Bratislava during the coronavirus outbreak (filmed with my GoPro)

You appear to be travelling significantly above 30km/h!  :cool

The architecture in the old part of town is lovely.  Thank you very much for the virtual tour.  I've never been to Bratislava before!
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 17, 2020, 12:10:00
I'm curious to what extent others are socially distancing?

My brother's workplace is now from home (his work is all on a computer so it's possible).

I work in a health care setting (mental health) so this work currently can't be done from home. It looks likely I'll still need to go to the office, but with client contact increasingly via phone/Skype etc.
Ideally I'd prefer to be able to socially isolate... From all I can see it seems the best choice at a time like this.
I'm also feeling a bit worried Australia isn't doing enough. We should be doing similar to countries who were able to achieve flattened curves like Singapore. I would fully embrace more drastic actions occurring, shut everything down as much as possible ...stay home people!
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 17, 2020, 13:03:33
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 17, 2020, 12:10:00I'm curious to what extent others are socially distancing?

My brother's workplace is now from home (his work is all on a computer so it's possible).

My brother-in-law is also working at his "home office" now (my sister has been doing so anyway for a few days a week - her usual "visits" to the company are now being reduced). Their kids are at home (schools will be closed until after Easter).

I'm self-employed, so I basically work from here (next door) anyway. Trouble is my customers mostly do own stores and need people to come in (which not many will do now), thus I reckon not much work will come in.

Might have to do some shopping at times (maybe for my mother too).

Apart from going to concerts or cinema, I didn't go out that much anyway. As clubs and cinemas are closed now, I don't even have to think about going.
Going for a walk/hike is still possible under the circumstances (and they tell people they can go out and do "jogging" or whatever). On Sunday I already walked in an area in which I saw only few people from afar.

Other than that, I'm probably restricted to staying in, maybe doing a bit of garden work, contact friends via email, letter, phone & forums. Plus I might do more of these (usual) acitivities: reading, listening to music, watching movies & series...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on March 17, 2020, 13:20:05
Can you get shopping home delivered Ulrich?
Here they do that for a small fee, and you can choose for it to be left (so you don't have contact with the delivery person).

I'm wondering if Sue is still doing AirBNB?

I'm feeling a bit frustrated about my parents being a bit set in their ways. My Mum was at bingo tonight where everyone was sitting close together (not the advised 1 1/2 metres apart). I gave her hand sanitizer last week and she keeps forgetting to use it. Plus she has a heart condition. ...I feel the urge to lock her in the house to stop her going out unnecessarily! I've had to settle for a strongly worded plea, combined with using disinfectant throughout their house!
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 17, 2020, 14:06:06
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 17, 2020, 13:20:05Can you get shopping home delivered Ulrich?

We could (I guess). But I can imagine they've got more of those now than usual (i.e. they might be overbooked). I will look into this later. Right now there are no cases known in this town (*), my mum still goes to the shop on her own. My sister has already offered to go shopping for her.

(* and 13 known cases in the whole region, more than 1100 cases in our federal state)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 17, 2020, 15:51:48
Quote from: word_on_a_wing on March 17, 2020, 12:10:00I'm curious to what extent others are socially distancing?

We are avoiding crowds at the moment. In everyday terms things aren't vastly different because we live on a farm and are therefore already comparatively quarantined, and we generally avoid crowds anyway, except at concerts (but we didn't have any of those lined up right now anyway) and for fortnightly grocery shopping (which we always do off-peak).

I run the farm and do my writing from home, so I don't get to town more than once a week at most on average anyway. The rest of the time I'm either on the farm, or going on a hike somewhere with my husband, and that rarely involves meeting another human being up close.

My husband has just gone back to work on Monday after two weeks' annual leave. He works at a medical practice, and they had a big meeting Monday morning about COVID-19. As of now, no staff with any sniffles or sore throat are allowed to turn up to work - doctors included. To do so is considered irresponsible unless people are prepared to work in biohazard suits - they don't want to spread COVID-19. Also, public servants in this state have just been given an extra 14 days COVID-19 leave to use for the same reasons - they don't want anyone coming to work with the sniffles. My husband works at a private practice so that won't be covered by this extra leave, but staff have general sick leave to use, and annual leave as well.

For years, in that practice, anyone coming in with respiratory symptoms was asked to wear a mask and disinfect their hands, to reduce spread. This has reduced illness amongst staff, but not eliminated it. They also wipe down surfaces, doorknobs, taps etc with disinfectant several times a day as standard practice and are now stepping that up a bit more. Brett disinfects his hands before handling his personal items, like his lunch bag and briefcase, and then again before leaving for the day. Doors are opened with elbows.

Both of us have a mildly sore throat at present (but nothing else); I had that on and off for a couple of days.  But work told Brett to stay home tomorrow because of it, just in case, and come back in on Friday (he has Thursdays off anyway) if it's gone.  It's highly unlikely to be COVID-19, both because we've had no documented cases in our region yet, and because it's the kind of thing that is mild and comes and goes (and it's not affected my inclination to exercise).  But, nobody is taking chances, and also spreading any germs around at present is stacking the field in favour of COVID-19, so it's a sensible policy.

Since we both have the same symptoms, we are going to sleep in the same bed as usual, but if it had been only one of us, then the unaffected person would have shipped out to the guest wing (our bedroom/ensuite is more self-contained, and therefore makes the best sick quarters).  We hate to do that, but don't want to be sick at the same time if we can avoid it.  (Oh, and we're now on the therapeutic dose of coldsore formula - Vit C, zinc, lysine - not on the everyday dose; and drinking loads of green and herbal teas - even more than usual - and extra mindful of eating properly and getting additional rest.)

But have a look at what an online friend is doing over in Spain re social distancing - she's got chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and is therefore really prone to respiratory viruses and pneumonia, and the infection has exploded in her country:  https://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/covid-19-different-containment-approaches-around-812919/page6/#post1970844847

You asked about Airbnb.  In theory I'm still running it, but I'm not quite sure if I'm going to accept any more bookings for a while.  We just had a COVID-19 related cancellation - people had booked us to go to someone's 60th in the area, but the 60th celebration has now been postponed. Airbnb's current policy around the pandemic is that for the near future, anyone - hosts or guests - can cancel without penalty, and I agree with that policy.  Anyway, it saved me having to contact the guest to ask if she had any respiratory symptoms (and to say that I had a sore throat) etc (because I won't let anyone with illness past the threshold at the moment, except ourselves...)

Disease symptom status will be one thing that will have to be communicated about earnestly from both host and guest sides... in theory I'm not averse to taking symptom-free guests when there is no illness in the house either.  I do know that people can be asymptomatic and still shed virus in the early stages, but at the moment the risk is quite low.  If and when the infection skyrockets and we start getting community transmission, I won't be taking any bookings until that status changes...

Nice talking to you, @word_on_a_wing - and such a hygienic way to talk!   :angel
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 18, 2020, 10:24:07
Infection rates were still increasing the last few days, I hope the current measures will help soon.

A friend told me the University where he works will be closing down from Friday. Most shops are closed now (except pharmacies, drug stores, supermarkets and such) too.

No new work has been coming, no surprise here. Did some garden work yesterday in the sunshine. Having a rest today... (because, after it was done, I took a mis-step somehow and sprained my foot a bit).
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 18, 2020, 12:38:21
Quote from: Ulrich on March 18, 2020, 10:24:07No new work has been coming, no surprise here. Did some garden work yesterday in the sunshine. Having a rest today... (because, after it was done, I took a mis-step somehow and sprained my foot a bit).

Typical Murphy.  It's always something banal like this.  The one time I broke bones in my body was NOT going flying off a galloping horse, it was falling from a small height after unbalancing, and landing awkwardly.  That broke three bones in my foot!  I was worried I might be getting decrepit - what, osteoporosis already??? - but no, apparently that injury is seen in all ages, most commonly from slipping in the bathtub, the ER people were telling me!

Get better soon! :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 19, 2020, 10:20:24
China reports "no new cases" within their country (apparently the 35 new cases they have, were all people coming home from elsewhere), which is a shimmer of hope.

Our chancellor Merkel spoke on the telly last night. It was alright, she said each and everyone must now help to avoid a quick spreading etc.
(What I missed a bit, was a perspective, like "if things go well, we might take back extreme measures within a few weeks" or something like that.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 21, 2020, 01:00:09
Community transmission was confirmed yesterday to be happening now in Western Australia, so the bug is out of the bottle over here too.  We've also had the first confirmed case outside of the capital city, Perth; in the rural Southwest.  I expect it's already come to the South Coast too; there's a lag between that happening and people confirming it (few people get tested).
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 21, 2020, 02:55:53
Perth aka "the most isolated city in the world"...

By now there are even several cases in places like Mongolia and Kazakhstan, which are as remote and nomadic and you can get in 2020. Not community transmissions obviously but still...

Looks like it will get far worse before it gets better. Most of the world's largest countries (US, Russia, Brazil) are handling it poorly by the look of it (not that there is an ideal way to handle it, some golden mean between intrusive, authoritarian enforcement of regulations and a "laisser-faire" attitude).
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 21, 2020, 03:28:37
Two interesting case studies for places currently dealing well with it:

India, at the moment:  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/india-is-containing-coronavirus-despite-dense-population/12059024

A little town at the epicentre of the outbreak in Italy - no new cases in over a week:  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-21/one-italian-town-is-bucking-the-countrys-coronavirus-curve/12075048

...that approach works, but would almost certainly be too expensive to do globally.

Here's a link to a useful clip on the current Australian situation, and discussing general strategies (both government policies, and personal actions) - by Dr Norman Swan, one of our most trusted public health communicators:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-18/dr-norman-swan-answers-some-of-your-questions/12068904
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 21, 2020, 23:05:56
I would love to be wrong but I suspect the piece on India is a bit too optimistic. It seems to be more about how the reporter feels than, say, the fact they don't do anywhere nearly enough testing (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-51922204).


https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-21/experts-fear-india-will-be-the-next-coronavirus-hotspot
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-51962813/india-must-prepare-for-a-tsunami-of-coronavirus-cases

I'm no expert to put it mildly, but given everything we know about India, it would come as a surprise if they weather this better than others.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 22, 2020, 03:56:25
Hmmm so not exactly like the flu...

https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients

QuoteIn my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience -- they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs -- or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I've never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly.


Quote"It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy shit, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we've had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you're in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don't know when someone is trying to help you, so you'll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 22, 2020, 11:20:02
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 22, 2020, 03:56:25Hmmm so not exactly like the flu...

As far as I remember no-one ever said it was like the flu! First I heard they were talking about a "lung disease", later CoVid-19 - because it is not (like) the flu!
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 22, 2020, 14:46:15
Maybe not on this forum but it's a widespread talking point (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-vs-the-flu-its-just-like-other-viruses-and-we-should-go-about-our-normal-business-right-wrong-heres-why-2020-03-09).

Anyhow I meant to link to this piece
https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 22, 2020, 19:26:26
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 22, 2020, 14:46:15Anyhow I meant to link to this piece
https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients (https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes--terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients)

luckily this seems to be the exception and not the rule:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/health/covid-19-recovery-rates-intl/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 24, 2020, 03:29:52
Thing is, there are lots and lots of people in their 40s who have high blood pressure or Type 2 diabetes or other health conditions that make them as vulnerable as old people...

This thing is brutal (https://news.sky.com/video/share-11961357?fbclid=IwAR0DsghPMsigoOohnYCnkpPteWTej8DbxM94-lGZCcd8o0-YiWpJZ8JtXc8).

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 24, 2020, 16:35:43
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 24, 2020, 03:29:52Thing is, there are lots and lots of people in their 40s who have high blood pressure or Type 2 diabetes or other health conditions that make them as vulnerable as old people...

This thing is brutal.

Have you got friends and relatives at risk, @BiscuityBoyle, and do you have risk factors yourself?

...I suppose the first part of that will be a yes for the majority of people... and I suppose you're also feeling awful for people in general who are going to have bad outcomes, which I can relate to.

As always when faced with a horrible situation, we can only do the best we can personally, and what will be will be.  While it's obviously a good idea to know your enemy, there's also a lot of wisdom in mocking the devil.  Quite literally, because apart from being well informed about things you can do to reduce spread, being able to live well in spite of a bad situation and under constraints is the next best thing (or maybe even an equally useful thing) we can do both for ourselves and others.  As someone else put it to me, life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

There's a separate thread here for sharing things that might be helping us both practically and in terms of staying in reasonable spirits:  http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=9316.0

This isn't meant in any way to minimise the seriousness of the situation; quite the opposite.  I have a friend with terminal cancer and have learnt a huge amount from her attitude.  She's not sitting there reading up on the many painful ways cancer can kill you; she's too busy appreciating and enjoying every day that's left to her, and the people she loves and love her, and the many beautiful things in this world, which little children and dying people seem to see most clearly.

In some ways we're all on death row from the time we are born, and all we can do is make the best of however many days we're going to get.

Best wishes to you, @BiscuityBoyle, and everyone here. 

And when you feel like it, keep that music coming!  :cool
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 24, 2020, 23:40:58
Thanks for the kind words, Sue. I don't think I'm particularly at risk - I'm in my mid 30s, I work out and am not aware of having any maladies - but, as you said, all of us probably know people whose age alone makes them vulnerable. Many of my favorite people in the world are in their 70s, including my mom.

Yes, one definitely could use adopting a more positive attitude since there's nothing one can do about it except staying at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 25, 2020, 05:20:52
You're most welcome, @BiscuityBoyle.  :cool  (Phew!  I thought, "How am I going to say this without sounding excessively like a hippie or Great-Aunt Matilda?" - and I'm not sure if I was able to avoid that very much, but I dived right in anyway and hoped for the best.  :-D )

And now, a super-hygienic cyberhug for anyone who could use one.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fba%2F29%2F88%2Fba2988977516eb727382bc7700e913ce--bear-hugs-teddy-bear-hug.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)


Here's an article I thought was worth sharing, covering basic immunity, and some ways to steward that:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-03-25/can-you-boost-your-immune-system-to-help-fight-coronavirus/12085036

I so hope we won't all forget these things when the pandemic is over; even "ordinary" infections aren't a barrel of laughs, nor is spreading "ordinary" stuff to others...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 25, 2020, 10:44:52
Instead of looking too much at India, New York or wherever, maybe we should look more at South Korea:

QuoteNo matter how you look at the numbers, one country stands out from the rest: South Korea.

In late February and early March, the number of new coronavirus infections in the country exploded from a few dozen, to a few hundred, to several thousand.

At the peak, medical workers identified 909 new cases in a single day, Feb. 29, and the country of 50 million people appeared on the verge of being overwhelmed. But less than a week later, the number of new cases halved. Within four days, it halved again -- and again the next day.

South Korea is one of only two countries with large outbreaks, alongside China, to flatten the curve of new infections. And it has done so without China's draconian restrictions on speech and movement, or economically damaging lockdowns like those in Europe and the United States.

South Korea has tested far more people for the coronavirus than any other country, enabling it to isolate and treat many people soon after they are infected.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on March 26, 2020, 05:47:46
QuoteInstead of looking too much at India, New York or wherever, maybe we should look more at South Korea


I'm assuming this is solid advice if you're a public health official or anyone with any say on coronavirus response. As for those of us who aren't public officials - I'm not sure what "looking too much at India, New York or wherever" even means. I don't want to read your words uncharitably as saying "we shouldn't pay too much attention to the suffering of our fellow human beings" but you see where I'm coming from...

Probably the most compelling piece of analysis I've read so far on the issue (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/18/tip-of-the-iceberg-is-our-destruction-of-nature-responsible-for-covid-19-aoe) drives home precisely how interconnected everything in our world is.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 26, 2020, 08:20:50
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 26, 2020, 05:47:46I'm assuming this is solid advice if you're a public health official or anyone with any say on coronavirus response.

I recently heard someone saying that if we don't have data we just have an opinion. The data shows South Korea declining cases without closing their country. I personally don't say it's a bad thing to lock down a country/area (it worked for China), but maybe a mix between that and what South Korea did is the solution. What I see from their experience is that aggressive testing is what is paying off, the opposite of what is done in the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 26, 2020, 09:36:20
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 26, 2020, 05:47:46Probably the most compelling piece of analysis I've read so far on the issue (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/18/tip-of-the-iceberg-is-our-destruction-of-nature-responsible-for-covid-19-aoe) drives home precisely how interconnected everything in our world is.

Thanks for that link, @BiscuityBoyle.  Yes, it describes that interconnectedness, which for some reason the majority of Westerners don't seem to have even a basic clue about these days - partly, in Australia, it's the urbanisation of populations and their removal from interaction with nature, food production etc, so most people have only vague ideas about where their food comes from, how it is produced, and what the effects of various types of food production are on the environment - let alone understanding that disrupting ecosystems has always favoured opportunists (humans, above all), and therefore also opportunistic pathogens, and that the more you push that, the more it pushes back.

Have you ever heard of the Gaia hypothesis?  Very relevant.

I don't know whether you'd like my personal opinion, so I'll just say that as someone who qualified as a biologist and environmental scientist, and worked in sustainable land management / biodiversity research before turning to education, my views on what we're doing to the planet, and what the likely outcomes of that are going to be for the planet and for our own species, align very closely with what I've heard David Attenborough say about it, and Paul Ehrlich.

My two main critiques of the article you linked to are:

1) Referring to "animals" as if humans aren't animals themselves, and of course humans are animals.  People should correctly refer not to "humans and animals" but "humans and other animals." Making that artificial distinction between "humans and animals" is very much linked to the anthropocentric Western cultural idea that humans are somehow above and separate from "mere nature" and basically supernatural beings in training, put there by God allegedly in his image, to exploit everything else, which was allegedly put there entirely for our own use (which is a really convenient and self-serving world view).  If people continue to talk about humans and nature using anthropocentric language, these misconceptions will continue to be perpetuated.

2) Not even mentioning the two main reasons for the accelerating destruction of the biosphere:  The continued human population explosion, and the accelerating consumption of resources per capita in our wasteful (and doomed) consumerist societies.  ...the people in the article seem to think that the "solution" is just to tinker around the edges, and re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.  This is not going to work.

The reason that most media articles (sadly, even Guardian articles) don't mention these basic facts, aside from widespread ignorance on these matters, is that we currently live under an economic system which thrives (in the short term) when there is skyrocketing demand for consumer items, as happens when you continue to add to the human population above replacement rate, and when you continue to fan demand for items nobody actually needs (need versus want), and create a whole bunch of throwaway goods with built-in obsolescence so you can sell more and more short-lived items that end up in landfill a relatively short time later.  This is current Western capitalism, as favoured by the neoliberals who've got their claws in power structures, legislation, media, etc etc, and whose upper echelons get dirty rich out of exploiting the planet, and the most powerless of their fellow human beings, through this system.

I'm not sure if you ever saw the film Idiocracy, but their hypothetical society's economic system was actually no more ridiculous than the one it set up to spoof - it's just that when ridiculous has been your lifelong normal, it's hard to see it that way.

So yeah, unfortunately, humans behave like bacteria cultured in the laboratory:  They grow exponentially until all their resource base has been exploited - and then they crash; even though humans actually have brains, and have all the necessary knowledge as a species to live in harmony with nature.  If humans don't control their own population size through contraception, then diseases, famine, war and ecosystem collapse will have to control it for them.  The greater the population size and the more mobile the human population amongst each other, the more rife the situation becomes for having pandemics to knock the population back down to less ridiculous levels - because we've long since exceeded the planet's sustainable carrying capacity, and are all living on borrowed time (while continuing to exterminate other species and the few remaining wildernesses - we've not stopped doing this since industrialisation).

Ditto, for controlling our greed and wastefulness as a modern species.  Homo sapiens, that's a laugh, and typical hubris...

/end rant

As a result of reading this link, I bumped into a salient critique of the government response to COVID-19 in Australia here: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/26/australia-is-scared-and-confused-about-coronavirus-is-scott-morrison-the-leader-we-need-for-this-grave-moment

...and one of the best books I've seen on the topic on humans, growth economics and the environment was written by a psychologist - if you're only going to read one book on these issues, read this one:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/0522849695?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 26, 2020, 09:57:20
Quote from: BiscuityBoyle on March 26, 2020, 05:47:46I don't want to read your words uncharitably as saying "we shouldn't pay too much attention to the suffering of our fellow human beings" but you see where I'm coming from...

Thank you for that.  :cool
Of course I said "too much", because we should not look just at the problem(s), but at possible solutions too. That is all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 26, 2020, 10:22:16
By the way, I don't mean to depress anyone, because that would actually make everything that's already bad much worse, and then there wouldn't even be a slim chance of turning things around.  I'm not a fan of doom and gloom, even in the face of horrific facts, because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, sapping those of us who care of the energy and will to do things differently.  I guess I learnt to look for beauty in people and the world, and to survive and get through, while growing up in a really horrible dysfunctional family, and those skills transfer well to the realisation that the wider social structures are equally horrible and dysfunctional.

So, lots of love to all of you. ♥

And a story my teacher told me when I was in Grade 2:  Two frogs who fell in a bucket of milk, and they were both swimming all night, and eventually one of them gave up and drowned, while the other said, "Well, it probably is hopeless, but it doesn't hurt me to keep swimming as long as I am physically able."  And the frog's swimming churned the milk, and as the fable goes, caused butter lumps to form, from which he was able to jump out of the bucket.

The science on that is a bit dodgy - both the butter making (you do that with cream) and that you could make enough to push off and that you could push off enough to get out of the bucket - but it's a great story which still warms my heart, more than half a statistical human life span later. :)

And for those who like black humour:


:lol:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 26, 2020, 10:56:26
Quote from: dsanchez on March 26, 2020, 08:20:50I recently heard someone saying that if we don't have data we just have an opinion. The data shows South Korea declining cases without closing their country. I personally don't say it's a bad thing to lock down a country/area (it worked for China), but maybe a mix between that and what South Korea did is the solution. What I see from their experience is that aggressive testing is what is paying off, the opposite of what is done in the US.

You might be interested in this comparison analysis: What we can learn from the countries winning the coronavirus fight (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid19-global-spread-data-explained/12089028)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on March 26, 2020, 10:56:50
An article about Germany:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate/2020/03/24/76ce18e4-6d05-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html
Quote from: undefinedWhen an individual tested positive, they used contact tracing to find other people with whom they had been in touch and then tested and quarantined them, which broke infection chains.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on March 28, 2020, 04:15:09
OUCH! Till Lindemann of Rammstein positive and in hospital.

Source: German press

Edit: I stand corrected. He's tested negative. Source: more press (https://loudwire.com/rammstein-till-lindemann-coronavirus-pneumonia/). I guess I shouldn't trust Bild.

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on March 28, 2020, 08:17:28
Quote from: piggymirror on March 28, 2020, 04:15:09I guess I shouldn't trust Bild.

So mildly put!  :lol:

In related matters, I'm sorry, but I have an evil streak and am currently laughing as the very officials / suits who were dragging their heels about safety measures and talking it down are now testing positive.  Oops!   :evil:  :angel

...more evilly still:  There's currently an excess of power concentrated in the hands of wealthy middle-aged white guys.  I wonder if COVID-19 will significantly correct that imbalance (but at an approx. 1% overall mortality rate I doubt it, plus there's always more of them crawling out of the woodwork etc).  And have you noticed how the most neoliberal of the mainstream neoliberal parties skew even more towards white, rich, male and middle (+) aged?  Hardly any women in the current Australian government... and not very multicultural in representation either...

/end rant.  And I do like men, am even married to one, I just don't like nincompoops and narcissists, who seem to turn up disproportionately in governments and general power positions.  (Books have been written about this.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on March 30, 2020, 00:03:29
Quote from: undefinedThere are several arguments supporting the current official Swedish strategy. These include the need to keep schools open in order to allow parents who work in key jobs in health care, transportation and food supply lines to remain at work. Despite other infectious diseases spreading rapidly among children, COVID-19 complications are relatively rare in children. A long-term lockdown is also likely to have major economic implications that in the future may harm healthcare due to lack of resources. This may eventually cause even more deaths and suffering than the COVID-19 pandemic will bring in the near term.

Life is carrying on as normal in Sweden - scientists explain the controversial approach (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/sweden-under-fire-for-relaxed-coronavirus-approach-here-s-the-science-behind-it)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on April 02, 2020, 14:34:58
The Cure fans on #COVID-19:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 02, 2020, 19:43:39
Quote from: dsanchez on March 30, 2020, 00:03:29
Quote from: undefinedThere are several arguments supporting the current official Swedish strategy. These include the need to keep schools open in order to allow parents who work in key jobs in health care, transportation and food supply lines to remain at work. Despite other infectious diseases spreading rapidly among children, COVID-19 complications are relatively rare in children. A long-term lockdown is also likely to have major economic implications that in the future may harm healthcare due to lack of resources. This may eventually cause even more deaths and suffering than the COVID-19 pandemic will bring in the near term.

Life is carrying on as normal in Sweden - scientists explain the controversial approach (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/sweden-under-fire-for-relaxed-coronavirus-approach-here-s-the-science-behind-it)

I don't know. I suspect this will backfire on Sweden terribly.
Let's hope I'm wrong, but...

You see the numbers in Spain, Italy, Switzerland, it's growing like crazy in France, the UK, the Netherlands, the US...

The only countries who seem to have done things the right way are South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and to a lesser degree, Japan.
The Singapore government, in an unusual move, even accused the Swiss and British governments of being irresponsible for not locking themselves down faster.
And I suspect the Singapore government was right...

Then there's also the masks.
Here in Europe, in our stupid little Eurocentrism, we sometimes tend to mock the Japanese for wearing masks when they have a cold.
But the fact is that that is precisely the most civilised thing to do.
And besides, it's not like the Asians are not civilised, in fact, in many ways they wipe the floor with the West...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on April 03, 2020, 10:21:29
Quote from: piggymirror on April 02, 2020, 19:43:39But the fact is that that is precisely the most civilised thing to do.

Depends on the mask and what you'd like it to achieve. So far, it was said that it helps to not spread something if you are ill yourself, but does not really "protect" you. (That is different of course with the medical masks used in hospitals etc. These are much wanted now, so of course creating a demand for those from the "public" would be insane.)

Quote from: piggymirror on April 02, 2020, 19:43:39And besides, it's not like the Asians are not civilised, in fact, in many ways they wipe the floor with the West...

Such "generalisations" are basically a difficult thing, always depends what you look at.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 04, 2020, 03:04:51
Bad, bad numbers today (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries) in the USA and France (both over 1,000 deaths), and the UK (bordering 700 deaths too).  :1f630: 
Horrific numbers in Ecuador (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/theyre-leaving-us-to-die-ecuadorians-plead-for-help-as-virus-blazes-deadly-trail) as well, the coastal city of Guayaquil is totally overwhelmed.  :1f631: Bodies on the streets, they're so plagued they can't count them...
On the "good" side, Italy seems to be stagnating, and Spain seems to be showing signs that it could be stagnating, too.  :1f636:

(https://i.imgur.com/lfYVMo7.png)

Besides, many people in the USA still in the "it's just a flu" denial phase.  :persevere:  :disappointed:
And guess where in the US "it's just a flu" the most? You guessed right, the Southern states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-social-distancing.html?action=click&module=Top+Stories&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR1O7mrQ2NTWdDaTlVnVkFpYmiumdnqFgNcE_JaSoOLj2YOB5pxGB4ON0J4 (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-social-distancing.html?action=click&module=Top+Stories&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR1O7mrQ2NTWdDaTlVnVkFpYmiumdnqFgNcE_JaSoOLj2YOB5pxGB4ON0J4)

And New York and New Jersey totally out of control, it's becoming worse there now than Madrid or Milan have been.  :1f631: Truth be told, it's also more populated.
Besides, Louisiana (they just had Mardi Gras...), and Michigan showing worrying numbers.
Let's hope Mr Craig Chainofflowers is okay...  :1f636:

(https://i.imgur.com/hLX8YH4.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 04, 2020, 03:36:58
Thanks for the stats and links, @piggymirror.  That's why I clicked "like" - not because I like the statistics...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 04, 2020, 03:59:12
Quote from: SueC on April 04, 2020, 03:36:58Thanks for the stats and links, @piggymirror.  That's why I clicked "like" - not because I like the statistics...

No one does... 
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 04, 2020, 04:51:01
Yeah, maybe not here, but some people truly don't seem to care, and I've seen a few like that around cyberspace.

The "like" button is a complicated beast, so sometimes it's best to specify what one likes.  So for instance, on my "other" forum, if someone reports a serious accident they had, that post doesn't attract as many "likes" and the people who do click it add, "I just like the fact that you're still alive" etc... :)

I don't always know what to do with the "like" button on the music thread - obviously click like if you like the music, but what if you don't like the music enough to listen to it again, but liked the learning experience / history lesson?  ...when in doubt I try to click "like" if I've really appreciated something, but then what does that say about the things I leave plain?   :1f636:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 04, 2020, 05:24:54
Quote from: Ulrich on April 03, 2020, 10:21:29
Quote from: piggymirror on April 02, 2020, 19:43:39But the fact is that that is precisely the most civilised thing to do.

Depends on the mask and what you'd like it to achieve. So far, it was said that it helps to not spread something if you are ill yourself, but does not really "protect" you. (That is different of course with the medical masks used in hospitals etc. These are much wanted now, so of course creating a demand for those from the "public" would be insane.)

@piggymirror did specify people with a cold... :)

I'm gonna weigh in on this one to say that you actually can put some masks through the wash and re-use them (hang 'em in the sun!), and also, that wearing a plain old doubled-up handkerchief is better than nothing, and that everyone with any kind of respiratory virus, whether or not it's COVID-19, ought to be either at home while they're making clouds of droplets and aerosol, or wear a mask in public if it's not completely avoidable for them to be there, as is the cultural norm in many Asian countries now, but unfortunately not yet in the West...

And yes, masks ought to be prioritised for people in close contact with ill people, and the ill people themselves - but if everyone were properly organised, then they'd have a few masks anyway and could just chuck them in the wash if they feel like wearing them even if they're not ill themselves.  And having a surgical (square type, not airtight) mask on will tend to protect you from direct droplets entering your airways if someone sneezes directly on you or in your zone in public, although it's not great for protecting you from aerosolised virus (really minute droplets - you need airtight-around-edges masks for that).  However, I would say that cutting down on the number of viral particles entering your airway will give you a greater chance to fight it off.  Also, masks can be good for reminding people not to touch their noses and mouths (and eyes) out in public (and not until they've washed their hands thoroughly back at home).


Quote from: Ulrich on April 03, 2020, 10:21:29
Quote from: piggymirror on April 02, 2020, 19:43:39And besides, it's not like the Asians are not civilised, in fact, in many ways they wipe the floor with the West...

Such "generalisations" are basically a difficult thing, always depends what you look at.

Yeah, generalisations are difficult... but:

In general:

I've always preferred working with Asian Australians, especially as a university student (Anglo-Aussies were generally more interested in drinking beer than doing hard work, and my German work ethic gels better with an Asian work ethic than with "she'll-be-rightness"...)

...but also professionally, because every one of them I have worked with are very motivated to work hard, get results and generally pull their weight - none of them ever tried to catch a free ride... (I'm sure slackers also exist in their culture, but far more in the minority)

...Asian Australian students are generally more motivated than their white Australian counterparts - and when I taught at a selective school in Sydney where people have to compete for places with entry exams, more than 80% of the kids were Asian Australian...

...and in our farmstay, I've never ever, so far, had an issue with any of the Chinese / Japanese / SE Asian guests, who were all friendly, polite, clean and super respectful of other people and facilities, to a T... all three of my problematic guests so far were white Australians... leaving muddy footprints in a shared guest bathtub, chucking their stuff all over the shared spaces instead of keeping it in their rooms, leaving French doors swinging on the breeze, expecting me to do their washing for them (that one was clearly used to women picking up after him, and got a bit of a manners-and-attitude lesson from me about it), not being courteous to other guests, and one of them even leaving the lid up and a puddle of his pee on the toilet seat and when I pulled him up about it, claiming that it wasn't him (he was the only person in the guest wing at the time, but I had other people coming in to the other room that night, so checked everything over) and that he'd never even used our toilet because he was afraid of compost toilets... to which I said, "Oh, you've been here two days, where DID you go then, in the garden?"...besides, I heard him use the toilet...

So in general, yes, I do think that Chinese, Japanese and SE Asian cultures are streets ahead of Australian culture when it comes to work ethic, consideration for others, manners, motivation to do the right thing etc, and I think they do indeed wipe the floor with most (but not all) Australians in these matters...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 04, 2020, 13:24:17
This is one fine video.

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 06, 2020, 06:53:41
Excellent clip for DIY people in places running out of masks.  Also very good general information.


And from Korea:


If you go to YT directly, there's more details in the text below the clip.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 06, 2020, 08:29:55
US, UK numbers getting more and more horrific.
UK PM Boris Johnson in hospital... on Sunday evening.

On the other hand, Italy and Spain numbers seem to slowwwwwly start going down.
Touch wood, because with a bit of luck, this will maybe mean the beginning of a recovery.

Meanwhile, France is finding horror numbers from care homes, which hadn't counted yet.
This means it will probably end up getting quite close to Italy/Spain.

(https://i.imgur.com/XkP1urW.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 07, 2020, 05:45:33
Just passing on a very good article:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/01/825221305/opinion-the-way-the-u-s-beat-tb-could-be-a-boon-in-battling-coronavirus
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 07, 2020, 05:55:48
(https://media.guim.co.uk/ec99a20a0d53bf0470046658b97984b1ebc3b752/0_0_3508_6842/3508..jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/06/if-coronavirus-which-we-all-hate-now-is-spread-through-the-air-why-arent-we-all-wearing-masks

More on DIY masks here: http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=9304.msg772474#msg772474
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 09, 2020, 06:00:17
Interesting clip on mathematical modelling of COVID-19 scenarios here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-08/norman-swan-looks-at-the-governments-coronavirus/12134996

Also a good article on how to be as resilient as possible physically to avoid illness, and what to do when you get a respiratory infection:  https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/apr/08/from-vitamin-c-to-breathing-exercises-doctors-on-what-you-should-really-do-for-your-health-right-now
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 11, 2020, 08:25:29
Another excellent article by Lenore Taylor, editor of Guardian Australia, this time about the choices we're going to have to make about exit strategies in Australia (and this applies to other countries as well):  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/australia-coronavirus-diabolical-decisions-choose-with-care
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 18, 2020, 04:46:26
Why a vaccine may be a pipe dream and we shouldn't be banking on it - interview with the guy who invented the HPV vaccine (to prevent cervical cancer):

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616


How Taiwan did so well, running things along without a vaccine:

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Why-Taiwan-s-COVID-19-death-rate-is-shockingly-low-15130341.php

https://news.yahoo.com/president-taiwan-country-prevented-major-230351493.html


Oh, and no exposed farting - cover your bums:  ;)

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/no-bare-bottoms-norman-swan-weighs-in/12154256
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on April 18, 2020, 12:21:39
Quote from: SueC on April 18, 2020, 04:46:26Why a vaccine may be a pipe dream and we shouldn't be banking on it

Yeah, but a medication that helps severely ill people would be welcome and it does look good (sorry, German article only):

https://www.sharedeals.de/bellerophon-aerzte-begeistert-von-corona-therapie-warten-auf-die-mega-news/

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 18, 2020, 12:58:55
Yeah, improved treatment of respiratory distress is one thing that's got potential. :cool

Interestingly, I was reading that the main problem in that is actually the body's inflammatory response, rather than the virus itself - the overreaction of the body to the virus.  So that's a good avenue to look at, for ICU treatment.

From a nutritional perspective, extra Vitamins E, D, C, betacarotene and general antioxidants (like the anthocyanins in blueberries, and other strongly coloured pigments in good F&V), plus complete protein and essential fatty acids at every meal (from actual food, not from a tin of goop), should come in as useful for dealing with tissue damage in this case as they do for bone healing - which helped me heal up in record time when I had a triple fracture of hard-to-heal bones in my feet.  Of course, eating well is always important, but when your body is fighting an infection and/or repairing tissue, it has an extra demand for those things - and it's best not to become deficient or borderline deficient in them.

I have a really strong hunch that people who rest up, keep warm, eat chicken soup etc the moment they're feeling under the weather have a better chance of not getting complications than people who try to "soldier on"... it's certainly the medical recommendation to do so, not that certain prime ministers (and a plethora of other politicians) were following that advice, or even social distancing advice - setting a pretty bad example...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/opinion/boris-johnson-coronavirus.html

QuoteLast weekend, Mr. Paul became the first senator to test positive for the coronavirus. He is unlikely to be the last -- in part because in the six days between when he was tested, on March 16, and when his results came back positive, Mr. Paul strutted around Capitol Hill, shedding pathogens left and right. He lunched with his colleagues. He held forth on the Senate floor. He breathed all over unsuspecting aides, worked out in the Senate gym and swam in the Senate pool. The United States' own super-spreader.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 19, 2020, 06:58:15
Super article on changing the world for the better after COVID-19 here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/18/history-fairer-society-coronavirus-workers-black-death-spanish-flu
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on April 19, 2020, 13:38:40
Quote170 Dutch academics put together a 5-point manifesto for economic change after the C19 crisis, building on #degrowth principles. It has gone viral in Dutch media. In this thread I'll summarize the points in English.

1) Shift from an economy focused on aggregate GDP growth to differentiate among sectors that can grow and need investment (critical public sectors, and clean energy, education, health) and sectors that need to radically degrow (oil, gas, mining, advertising, etc).
2) Build an economic framework focused on redistribution, which establishes a universal basic income, a universal social policy system, a strong progressive taxation of
income, profits and wealth, reduced working hours and job sharing, and recognizes care work.
3) Transform farming towards regenerative agriculture based on biodiversity conservation, sustainable and mostly local and vegetarian food production, as well as fair agricultural employment conditions and wages.
4) Reduce consumption and travel, with a drastic shift from luxury and wasteful consumption and travel to basic, necessary, sustainable and satisfying consumption and
travel.
5) Debt cancellation, especially for workers and small business owners and for countries in the global south (both from richer countries and international financial institutions).


Original proposal in dutch (https://drive.google.com/file/d/18lgH20CnBwhNQWZiHdHLJA78cSz7Lx_w/view).
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on April 20, 2020, 22:38:38
A side effect of #covid19

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on April 22, 2020, 11:17:19
QuoteThe World Health Organization (WHO) is calling for stricter safety and hygiene standards when wet markets reopen.

And it says governments must rigorously enforce bans on the sale and trade of wildlife for food.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52369878
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on April 22, 2020, 20:58:22
Death rate/million people in EU countries (+associates), US states (+ associates), and Canada
(according to Worldometers (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/), as of Apr 22, 2020).
Note: these data are not complete (don't take into account deceases in elderly care homes in certain countries, the UK and the USA, for instance -others too-)

San Marino - 1,179
New York - 1,004
Belgium - 540
New Jersey - 535
Andorra - 479
Spain - 464
Italy - 415
Connecticut - 397
France - 319
Louisiana - 301
Massachusetts - 287
Michigan - 271
UK - 267
Netherlands - 237
Sweden - 192
Switzerland - 174
District of Columbia (Washington DC) - 164
Rhode Island - 162
Republic of Ireland - 148
Pennsylvania - 126
Luxembourg - 125
Illinois - 114
Maryland - 109

-------------------------------

Indiana - 95
Washington State (Seattle) - 93
Colorado - 88
Delaware - 86
Georgia (USA) - 79
Portugal - 77
Monaco - 76
Denmark - 66
Vermont - 64
Germany - 61
Mississippi - 61
Austria - 57
Nevada - 56
Canada - 50
Ohio - 48
Florida - 42
Wisconsin - 42
Oklahoma - 42
Virginia - 39
Kentucky - 39
Alabama - 38
Slovenia - 38
Kansas - 37
Missouri - 36
Norway - 34
California - 33
Estonia - 33
New Mexico - 31
New Hampshire - 31
Arizona - 30
Idaho - 30
Minnesota - 29
Iceland - 29
Finland - 27
South Carolina - 27
North Macedonia - 27
Maine - 27
Romania - 26
Iowa - 26
Liechtenstein - 26
North Carolina - 24
Tennessee - 24
Hungary - 23
Texas - 19
Czech Rep - 19
Oregon - 19
Puerto Rico - 19
Nebraska - 17
North Dakota - 17
Serbia - 15
Arkansas - 14
Lithuania - 14
West Virginia - 14
Greece - 12
Croatia - 12
Montana - 12
Alaska - 12
Poland - 11
Utah - 11
Cyprus - 11
Wyoming - 10
Albania - 9
South Dakota - 9
Hawaii - 8
Montenegro - 8
Bulgaria - 7
Malta - 7
Latvia - 6
Slovakia - 3
Ukraine - 4
Georgia (Europe) - 1
Guam - 0
US Virgin Islands - 0
US Samoa - 0
Northern Mariana Islands - 0
Vatican City - 0
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: word_on_a_wing on April 23, 2020, 22:52:40

Saw this morning 😆
Twitter -The Cure? (https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status/1253399674309894144?s=21)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on April 24, 2020, 01:03:28
A friend from the States was showing us this: :lol:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/a/img924/7197/4Uf8jg.jpg)

...and it does remind us that while we don't always get to choose our circumstances, we do get to choose our attitudes...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 02, 2020, 02:49:26
Made by the Chinese government in response to all the American government bleating - and I can't even find anything they've exaggerated here!

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on May 02, 2020, 07:51:50
Food-for-thought interview. Puts things into perspective.

The Guardian (Apr 30, 2020) (https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/walter-scheidel-a-shock-to-the-established-order-can-deliver-change)

QuoteBlack Death historian: 'A coronavirus depression could be the great leveller'

Walter Scheidel explains how the fallout from coronavirus could be the catalyst for a more equal world


[...] The Austrian economic historian Walter Scheidel argues that throughout history, from the stone age onwards, pandemic is one of the only four events capable of bringing about greater equality. War, state collapse and revolution are the other three.

In his book The Great Leveler he showed how the Black Death in the 1300s led to the wipeout of a third of Europe's population and massively reduced inequality by raising the price of labour. More recently, in the 20th century, two catastrophic world wars and the Communist revolution led to a long era of reduced inequality lasting until the early 1980s and giving rise to the modern welfare state, labour unions and progressive taxation. [...]
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 16:11:30
Quote from: undefined...pandemic is one of the only four events capable of bringing about greater equality. War, state collapse and revolution are the other three.

Yeah I tend to agree, especially for those who died. All of 'em equally dead.  :1f62a: :1f635:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 03, 2020, 01:33:53
Quote from: Ulrich on May 02, 2020, 16:11:30
Quote from: undefined...pandemic is one of the only four events capable of bringing about greater equality. War, state collapse and revolution are the other three.

Yeah I tend to agree, especially for those who died. All of 'em equally dead.  :1f62a: :1f635:

Brett says that this is probably the most pragmatic statement he ever heard!  (And PS, he says always read the book first, before you watch a screen adaptation, so that your reading experience isn't contaminated with the somebody else's visualisations!)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on May 03, 2020, 06:50:02
The Guardian (Apr 16, 2020) (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/16/crawley-worst-uk-coronavirus-job-losses-aviation)

QuoteCrawley likely to be worst affected by UK coronavirus job losses

More than 53,000 of 94,000 jobs in aviation-reliant Sussex town at risk, warns thinktank

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on May 04, 2020, 17:50:03
This seems to me somewhat more tethered to reality than the "hopeful" Black Plague comparisons from a public intellectual with a book to promote.

Quote from: undefined"EXCEPTIONALLY DIRE": SECONDARY IMPACTS OF COVID-19 COULD INCREASE GLOBAL POVERTY AND HUNGER (https://theintercept.com/2020/05/02/exceptionally-dire-secondary-impacts-of-covid-19-could-increase-global-poverty-and-hunger/)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: BiscuityBoyle on May 04, 2020, 18:23:41
That's more like it (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/cost-of-public-transport-should-be-raised-as-lockdown-ends-ifs)!

QuoteThe price of a bus, train or tube ticket during peak commuting hours could be raised to prevent crowding and the spread of coronavirus on public transport, according to a leading thinktank.

Title: Un-locking.
Post by: piggymirror on May 12, 2020, 19:01:56
Un-locking.

Red means "hard" lockdown continues.
Orange and green means different degrees of easing.
I'll try and post more maps as soon as I find them.

-In France:

(https://i.imgur.com/P41Fb56.jpg)



-In Spain:

(https://i.imgur.com/H1LAk3D.jpg)



Both countries use its own scale to de-escalate.

Pity that Brussels (I mean, the EU) has no competence on this, things would be easier to understand (I suppose?).
Particularly in cross-border urban areas such as the Basque Country, Geneva/Annemasse, Mulhouse/Basel/Freiburg, Lille/Tournai, Saarbrücken/Sarreguemines, Vienna/Bratislava, Strasbourg/Kehl, Görlitz/Zgorzelec, Gorizia/Nova Gorica, Nancy/Metz/Luxembourg/Trier, Tallinn/Helsinki, Frankfurt-Oder/Slubice, etc.

What do you do now, if you live in one country but work in another? Complicated.

The most ridiculous case must be that town that's splintered between Belgium and the Netherlands (I said "splintered", not just "split").
I think it is called Baarle-Nassau or something like that. It has a ridiculous border indeed.

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on May 13, 2020, 10:08:11
https://medium.com/swlh/our-industry-isnt-coming-back-like-yours-is-4cbf261194e1
QuoteUnlike any natural disaster, this is the first time in my life I've witnessed something that everyone, regardless of location, has had to cope with at once. No person, industry or area of daily life has been left untouched by what's going on right now.

COVID has impacted every aspect of our lives: we can't go out with friends, grab dinner, or just swing by our favorite coffee shop. And while our social norms have been uniquely affected, it's our working lives that have seen the greatest disruption.
(...)
But some of us aren't that fortunate. Myself and my team at MEPTIK live in the world of live events and entertainment. Everything we do is based around locations, gatherings, events, and shows -- and those have vanished.
(...)
But, you see, our normal isn't everyone else's normal. It won't return when cities begin to reopen. We can't just restart this beast of a process overnight. Most events you've been to -- music festivals, concert tours, conferences -- take anywhere from months to years to plan and coordinate.
(...)
We enjoy being behind-the-scenes, but now is not the time to remain in the shadows. Let your political leaders know that we're here, and we've been affected -- via Twitter, Facebook, Insta, email, all of the above. Talk to your friends and your colleagues; don't live in this alone. You might be at home by yourself, but you're never alone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 14, 2020, 12:30:18
(https://media.guim.co.uk/b25c0e15aaf36dd666eed92761b6511b05ac0f1c/0_0_3508_6327/3508.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/13/conspiracy-theories-used-to-be-fun-now-everyone-is-freaking-out-about-everything-all-at-once
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 15, 2020, 04:48:42
Another interesting article on the likelihood of a vaccine:

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/05/13/Vaccine-Not-Likely/

Seems that it's a similar story to antibiotics - by using these you automatically select for pathogens that are better at getting past them.

We can change the way we live, though; and if we're going to have a new normal, then let's have one that addresses and corrects the inherent injustices in the systems that were the pre-COVID-19 normal.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 16, 2020, 13:00:01
Yeah...

Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on May 17, 2020, 10:54:36
Quote from: undefinedIt was always hard making a living as a musician in New York City. The quarantine has made it impossible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/nyregion/amy-madden-new-york-musician-quarantine.html
Quote from: undefinedEven during the long period in which creativity was better supported, making enough money for the essential things was not easy, yet it was unclear then how much more challenging the exercise would become. This particular life was already scarred by the slow burn of the music industry's technological revolution and the brutal economic realities of New York. The pandemic rendered it to ash.

In recent years, Amy Madden had made a meager living playing in bars, most of them the dives that had defined a vanishing cultural style in the city. Now the virus had forced those bars to close. A part-time job she had at an art gallery became another casualty of the national lockdown.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on May 20, 2020, 13:50:59
QuoteI miss the shows and I miss the scene. I've actually found myself being acutely depressed when I think about the state my beloved scene has been reduced to, but not entirely for myself. I've been to hundreds of gigs now. I've seen hundreds of bands. I've seen so many I can't even remember them all. I'm sad for the future, for those who are just coming through.

But I am most concerned about the industry itself. The thousands of people who relied on the industry for their livelihood - not only the musicians, most of whom barely scraped by at the best of times, but the roadies, riggers, techies, venue and studio owners, gig bookers, publicists, promoters, backline suppliers, and all their staff. Who's looking out for them now? I'm missing my live music rush, but these people depend on it financially.

Let's not forget that it's not just live music that's suffering here - theatre, dance, comedy, even film and TV... every area of the performing and creative arts has been gutted by COVID-19 and at every level of government it has been denied any form of financial assistance. Pubs and clubs might be reopening, but who knows how long it will be before they are once again filled with the clamour of live entertainment, and what restrictions will be in place once they are? For those of us who love it live, all we can do is support the scene and those impacted however we can.
http://www.loudmag.com.au/features/ever-gonna-see-live-bands/
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 26, 2020, 01:46:58
QuoteULTRA RICH KEEP GETTING ULTRA RICHER: The news comes after progressive think tank 'Americans for Tax Fairness and the Institute for Policy Studies' found that the total net worth of all American billionaires rose US$434 billion (A$663 billion) since state lockdowns began on March 19. Because that's just how that country works!

From a Crikey email linking to this story:  https://americansfortaxfairness.org/issue/tale-two-crises-billionaires-gain-workers-feel-pandemic-pain/
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on May 27, 2020, 21:06:54

(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9IgKK9NVmEZxYTeM/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 28, 2020, 01:00:07
OMG... :1f631:  :1f629:  :1f635:

Here comes that poem again:

HAPPY IS THE MORON

Happy is the moron
He doesn't give a damn
I wish I were a moron
Oh no! Perhaps I am!

Like bad driving, it would be fine if it  only affected them - but it unfortunately has a lot of collateral damage, on people who did not make those choices.  Otherwise I'd be Darwinistic and say, "Go for it!"  :evil:

It's funny how American freedom is often apparently just a euphemism for American entitlement, short-term thinking and refusal to use the brain to even 10% of its capacity...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on May 28, 2020, 23:38:34
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: dsanchez on May 29, 2020, 00:27:11
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYvJqmKVAAAeEFz?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on May 29, 2020, 10:30:16
At least a bit of an optimistic message (sorry, German article)

https://www.gmx.net/magazine/news/coronavirus/drosten-optimistisch-chance-herbst-winter-zweite-welle-34744188

He says that maybe we will have no 2nd wave; also that in Germany the restrictions helped to avoid a large(r) number of deaths.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on May 30, 2020, 15:14:40
Good article, thank you, @Ulrich.  It's interesting to get a view into a non-Anglo media. :cool

Here's an article on British music and the current crisis:  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/music-venues-british-culture-taskforce

QuoteThe Taskforce (only one member under 40!) includes the director of a Lincolnshire theme-park Fantasy Island, yet no direct mention of music, even in the sub-committees it will set-up, which will cover "sport, entertainment and events, museums and galleries, heritage, tourism and libraries". In normal times, no one would expect a Conservative government to proactively care about a world that consistently rallies opposition to it, and which - up late, non-conformist, possibly on drugs - is the antithesis of middle England. But given live music's cultural and economic heft (£1.1bn annually), you might imagine that in a national emergency, culture secretary Oliver Dowden would feel grudgingly obliged to support it.


First Dog drips with satire at the resumption of football in Australia.  :lol:

(https://media.guim.co.uk/4a21546b53b8539a134c6cc9c06b67139996ac09/0_0_3508_5498/3508.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/29/take-that-covid-19-you-cant-stop-the-compulsory-emotional-juggernaut-that-is-footy
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on June 01, 2020, 06:36:11
So this is exactly why everyone wearing masks in confined environments like public transport is so essential, and why wearing masks in public places with other people not of your household is a good idea:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/30/could-nearly-half-of-those-with-covid-19-have-no-idea-they-are-infected

...and this is why the moment there is community transmission you basically have to treat yourself as potentially infectious, although asymptomatic - to safeguard against spreading the disease.  For the same reason wearing a seatbelt is a good idea:  Not for the 999 times you don't need it, but the one time you do.

...as two friends who've been through a SARS epidemic have said to me from the start, while there was still general ummhing and aaahing about it in the West.  (SARS, like COVID-19, is a coronavirus, and a better model of comparison than flu).

One way asymptomatic people can spread virus without even realising it:

- because they too cough to clear throats and sneeze from general irritation, which will spread infected droplets unless a mask is on (to someone physically close to them, and to surfaces)
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on June 03, 2020, 09:35:04
A commentary:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/31/donald-trump-coronavirus-pandemic-george-floyd-minneapolis-tweets

Quote from: undefinedBy having no constructive response to any of the monumental crises now convulsing America, Trump has abdicated his office.

He is not governing. He's golfing, watching cable TV and tweeting.

Trump's response to the last three ghastly months of mounting disease and death has been just as heedless. Since claiming Covid-19 was a "Democratic hoax" and muzzling public health officials, he has punted management of the coronavirus to the states.

Governors have had to find ventilators to keep patients alive and protective equipment for hospital and other essential workers who lack it, often bidding against each other. They have had to decide how, when and where to reopen their economies.

Trump has claimed "no responsibility at all" for testing and contact-tracing - the keys to containing the virus. His new "plan" places responsibility on states to do their own testing and contact-tracing.
:unamused:   :mad:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on June 03, 2020, 12:36:51
It seems we're reading the same articles!  :)  I'd just read that.  Did you catch the Guardian pieces about that UK advisor whose nose has to be longer than Pinocchio's?  ...calls a sightseeing trip to a castle with a toddler in the back an "eyesight test"...   :rofl  :evil:  :1f629:

This landed in my inbox courtesy of Crikey yesterday:

QuoteINDEPENDENT AUTOPSY FINDINGS TO BE RELEASED

According to The Sydney Morning Herald's live blog, the attorney for George Floyd's family is set to release findings from an independent autopsy into Floyd's death, while Donald Trump has called on a collection of governors to "dominate" (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/01/politics/donald-trump-race-police/index.html) and arrest protesters.

The news comes after protesters surrounded the White House, a semi-trailer driver was arrested for speeding into a Minneapolis protest (https://www.9news.com.au/world/semi-trailer-truck-drives-through-crowds-of-protesters-in-minneapolis-freeway-george-floyd-death/90980750-9019-4627-b18e-e0da2982c98d), a third man was killed -- this time in a shooting with Kentucky police and the National Guard (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-dead-louisville-after-police-national-guard-return-fire-protesters-n1220831) -- and even more frankly unbelievable police actions, with some newer examples including:

* Las Vegas police just kind of grabbing and dragging a random passer-by (https://www.instagram.com/p/CA14rooHIC6/);
* Phoenix Police putting ICE holds (https://twitter.com/LUCHA_AZ/status/1267224828408483842) on three arrested protesters; and
* NYPD union the Sergeants Benevolent Association (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/protesters-take-to-nyc-streets-for-4th-day-mayor-says-no-curfew-planned-for-sunday-night/2440286/) doxxing New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's daughter Chiara de Blasio, who, after being arrested for protesting, had her arrest information published on Twitter including her home address and ID number.

On the protesters' end, The Associate Press (https://apnews.com/a2797b342b4fc509e43f404817a56aa9?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top) reports that at least 4400 people have been arrested for offences ranging from stealing and vandalism to blocking highways, breaking curfew, and peacefully protesting. In one of the more delightful, still-at-large counterexamples, someone has apparently blocked the Chicago police scanner (https://twitter.com/alexcollyard/status/1267265346014191616) with the 2007 hit Chocolate Rain.

PS: As Perth Now (https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/perth/hundreds-gather-in-perth-cbd-as-black-lives-matter-protest-draws-attention-to-aboriginal-deaths-in-custody-ng-b881564931z) reports, hundreds of Western Australians rallied in Perth last night both in solidarity and in protest of Indigenous deaths in custody.

One good thing about the ubiquity of mobile phones these days is that these kinds of abuses often get recorded by someone's camera... when I followed the links in the above article yesterday, I was just gobsmacked.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing, even though I've heard about this so many times.  To see this stuff is so confronting...

I don't want to start a topic on this stuff because it would be too depressing.  I just thought of this in response to the stupidity of Trump as regards COVID-19, and this is just another example of an issue in which his response is totally incompetent.  I'm very heartened to see so many people saying they've had enough, and the international support.  It's just unfortunate that we have a pandemic at the same time we're having these much-needed protests everywhere.  :worried:
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: piggymirror on June 03, 2020, 18:13:16
Quote from: SueC on June 03, 2020, 12:36:51This landed in my inbox courtesy of Crikey yesterday:

Poor George Floyd used to be best friends with a former NBA player, Stephen Jackson, who was infamous for being one of the "bad boys" of the Indiana Pacers basketball team who got into that terrible brawl with the Detroit Pistons in the Palace of Auburn Hills (coincidentally where The Cure's Show was recorded). He wasn't a bad boy at all in the "real" world outside basketball, though, and he already was an anti-racist activist before this shambles happened.
You can guess the state Mr Jackson is in now...  :1f62d:
Most of the NBA is quite angry at this scandal.

The worse of it all, is... how does someone called "Chauvin" get no education to what his name means, and ends up committing a horrible racist and chauvinist crime, and worse, in front of the cameras/mobile phones, and as a cop in duty?
Not to say how Chauvin is a French (ie, non-Anglo) name, and someone should also have explained to him what things like Le Grand Dérangement were?

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose...

That said, it also looks like anyone can be a cop, because such "I can't breathe" scenes have sadly also happened in Spain... only that in our case the poor guy was a white, gay, HIV-positive man (the cops obviously didn't know, which is no excuse).

However, it's also true that cops often have very strained jobs and schedules.
So blame cuts, too.

Then there are all the demonstrators and rioters (and cops and National Guard) obviously not respecting anti-coronavirus social distancing any longer...
And then you have Donnie McDonface strutting around "I'll send them the army!" all over the place, because he's had riots just outside the White House.

I think we're in for some even more "interesting times"...

Jeez, it's all so fvcked up it's almost neverending.
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: SueC on June 04, 2020, 03:36:56
More depressing stuff about that in the Inbox this morning, but also this heartening story of what people are doing for each other:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/02/us/dc-protesters-sheltered-trnd/index.html

I did notice in the last couple of days looking at the protests, that the protestors seem to be majority mask-wearing*, more so the general US populace, some of whom argue terribly about their "rights" when asked to wear a mask in a shop.  (Friends from the US have related to me some choice observations about people ranting to store security about American freedom when asked to wear a mask for the safety of the community.   :1f635: )

PS:  Someone once told me that everyone is useful.  The very worst people serve as bad examples.

*and in marked contrast to the "end lockdown" and "COVID is a hoax" type protestors!  Not many masks there...
Title: Re: Coronavirus: More than 80% of patients have mild disease and will recover
Post by: Ulrich on June 04, 2020, 10:01:36
Quote from: SueC on June 03, 2020, 12:36:51It seems we're reading the same articles!

Yeah, I got friends from UK and some share these articles on FB or elsewhere...