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Off-Topic => Something else => Topic started by: dsanchez on August 29, 2020, 00:34:10

Title: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on August 29, 2020, 00:34:10

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on August 29, 2020, 00:36:07
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on September 25, 2020, 06:47:29
This is such a train wreck that I usually try to ignore it, but here's one really interesting article that's just out:

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/09/25/donald-trump-psychological-profile/

Actually worth reading.  At least the first bit, before the author gets all acrostic...
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on October 24, 2020, 17:59:23
(https://media.guim.co.uk/846fafb08ffae9729a9c49468c93075cef38e903/0_0_2400_4221/2400.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/21/if-trump-wins-everyone-is-going-to-have-a-lot-of-feelings-including-us-be-prepared
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on October 27, 2020, 18:53:26
QuoteI just voted! Didn't see Iggy Pop or Bob Dylan on the ballot so everything was definately second choices!

(Sonny Vincent, US songwriter & punkrocker via FB)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on October 29, 2020, 05:29:46
Guy Rundle at Crikey is good at summing this excrementitious situation up:

QuoteThe almost perfect storm has descended upon the American polity: an electoral system designed in the 18th century and not much modified since, ramshackle at the best of times, is now going head-to-head with an out of control pandemic, a mendacious president, a gangster administration and a stacked Supreme Court. What else could possibly go wrong?

Oh yeah, it's legal to open carry guns into a polling place. Thank God there's nothing aggravating about voting in the US, like an hours-long wait in line, with the distribution of food and water prohibited. Last, best hope of man, everybody.

There's no even-handedness about this. Democrat-run states may gerrymander their districts -- they have to, for parity -- but it's Republican states that suppress the voter rolls with lifetime voting bans on felons, removal of polling places and understaffing of those that remain. Now, with the universal right to mail-in ballots due to COVID-19, the brand-spanking new Supreme Court has ruled, on a Wisconsin case, that mail-in ballots stamped as mailed before polling day but arriving after will not be counted.

This, after the Trump-installed head of the US Postal Service initiated a campaign of withdrawing hundreds of mail sorting machines from service before workers refused to co-operate.

With state and county government determining most election conduct, the lawsuits are running wild. There are more than 300 currently underway, a large proportion focused on the key swing states of Florida and Pennsylvania. Should there be challenges to the result in these or other swing states, it seems likely that these will be the cases which are rapidly shuffled up to the Supreme Court -- which has complete discretion to take up whichever appeals it likes.

In the Wisconsin decision Justice Brett Kavanaugh affirmed both the notion of "stopping the count" on election night or soon after to avoid "confusion", and the supremacy of state government election codes over any challenge to their constitutionality by state courts. Since most of these governments are Republican, well.

The stage is thus set for a multi-directional car crash: hundreds of thousands of rejected votes, stand-offs at polling places, queues so long people are denied the chance to vote, followed by razor-thin state results which might be reversed into a final result in which an electoral college majority diverges from an overall majority.

This would test the system to close to breaking point beyond anything of recent decades. It's an extraordinary situation, arrived at in no more than a decade and a half from a point of relative stability and consensus. It's a product of the "wrecking crew" approach to government by Republicans -- to do government so badly that all consensual norms collapse and power becomes sheer exercise of force.

More here:  https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/10/29/2020-us-election-biden-victory/

...and I love this definition of his:

Quote"exported democracy" -- manufactured elites, a dodged-up process, a systemic exclusion of progressive change
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on October 30, 2020, 06:25:20
The sad state of the world is resulting in a lot of high-quality, impassioned writing, such as:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/27/ronald-reagan-vs-donald-trump

Comparing the Australian way of holding elections to the current US way of doing it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/29/the-us-electoral-system-is-a-shambles-they-could-learn-a-lot-from-australia

How we vote here is really good - but we do have the problem that voting isn't by proportional representation, but by seats - so someone can get in government because they win more seats, even though they get less overall votes - just as happened in the US in 2 out of the last 5 elections...

Best commentary of all, as usual, by FDOTM:

(https://media.guim.co.uk/324a2786e311ac8ac92d7a2624961fca3ec9dc98/0_0_3508_7691/3508.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/28/how-much-better-would-the-usa-be-with-a-raccoon-in-the-white-house

Stay sane, everyone - or at least, don't tip further into insanity...  :'(
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 02, 2020, 16:57:46
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 04, 2020, 13:31:26
Just when you thought things couldn't possibly get worse... (but at least the article is scorchingly well-written):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/ok-america-so-what-the-hell-happens-now
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on November 04, 2020, 16:57:49
From Sue's link:
Quote from: undefinedIn short, I think we all feel the hand of history on our pussies.

Donald Trump, America's howling id, has not lost this election. Then again, Joe Biden has not won it. Shortly before 6am UK time, Biden addressed a rally - never a better time for one, mate - and told the Delaware crowd he was "optimistic". In split-screen Trump addressed his Twitter retinue, and told them of "a big WIN", adding "they are trying to STEAL the election ... votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed." Expect him to invade Pole-land in the coming days.

Hilarious wording, did she really just say "pussies" in a press article?  XD

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 04, 2020, 23:28:25
Looks like Biden made it

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 05, 2020, 00:31:55
Some good news amongst the dire:

QuoteAccording to a Center for American Women and Politics (CAWP) report, 18 indigenous women were running for congressional seats this year - a record in a single year. Native American women made up 2.6% of all women running for Congress this year, the highest percentage since CAWP started collecting data in 2004.

There have been four Native Americans in the US Senate and a handful of indigenous US representatives. All were men until Haaland and Davids were elected in 2018.

In Kansas, Stephanie Byers, who is Chickasaw and a retired teacher, became the state's first transgender lawmaker when she won her race for a seat in its house of representatives.

"We've made history here," Byers said on Tuesday. "We've done something in Kansas most people thought would never happen, and we did it with really no pushback, by just focusing on the issues."

Also in Kansas, Christina Haswood, a Navajo Nation member, became the youngest person in the state legislature at 26. A third member of the Kansas house , Ponka-We Victors, a Tohono O'odham and Ponca member, won her re-election campaign.

The US House of Representatives will have its highest number of indigenous representatives after Tuesday's election, according to the independent Native American newspaper Indian Country Today.

Six candidates, including Haaland, Davids and Herrell, won their elections. Two Oklahoma representatives, Tom Cole, who is Chickasaw, and Markwayne Mullin, who is Cherokee, won their re-elections, and Kaiali'i "Kai" Kahele, who is Native Hawaiian, won an open seat for Hawaii. There were previously four indigenous members of Congress, all in the House of Representatives.

from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/04/native-american-women-elected-congress-record-number
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 05, 2020, 02:22:47
Quote from: Ulrich on November 04, 2020, 16:57:49From Sue's link:
Quote from: undefinedIn short, I think we all feel the hand of history on our pussies.

Donald Trump, America's howling id, has not lost this election. Then again, Joe Biden has not won it. Shortly before 6am UK time, Biden addressed a rally - never a better time for one, mate - and told the Delaware crowd he was "optimistic". In split-screen Trump addressed his Twitter retinue, and told them of "a big WIN", adding "they are trying to STEAL the election ... votes cannot be cast after the Poles are closed." Expect him to invade Pole-land in the coming days.

Hilarious wording, did she really just say "pussies" in a press article?  XD

She was only quoting, Ulrich, as you'd be aware, but I can't tell you how horrible it is to be female and have some champion posterior orifice in public office refer to us or our anatomy in this way, and in other equally delightful ways.  OMG if there was justice.  But there's not, and what I want to know is how women can actually vote for someone so misogynistic - do they like being portrayed by someone in a position of power as objects for sexual exploitation, and as non-people?

At this point, I'm taking a deep breath and reminding myself of all the decent men in this world, who treat women with respect.  Thank you and it makes such a difference.  ♥

And yeah, excellent wording in that article.  My biggest laugh went to "America's howling id" - genius, bwahahaha.  :lol:  It kinda merges imagery of a howling idiot with a personification of the emotional three-year-old-ness that a lot of US citizens have been putting on show, and for whom the howling idiot seems to be a spokesperson...  Plenty of id and ego on show, not much superego here...

And the Poles are closed, bwahahaha.  :rofl

Perhaps Pole-land would be the best place for The Resident Rump to cool his heels, on a melting ice shelf.  :evil:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on November 05, 2020, 09:48:27
It looks like Biden is ahead with his votes. Fingers crossed.

(Whatever happens, Trump will not go quietly...)

Quote from: SueC on November 05, 2020, 02:22:47She was only quoting, Ulrich, as you'd be aware

Yeah, I knew about Trump's quote "grab 'em by the...", but still I was surprised to see this in a "serious" newspaper article/comment.  ;)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 05, 2020, 10:29:00
I couldn't help but make a comment today on the Guardian about how nice it would be if Thor applied his hammer to a particular sconce, @Ulrich.  Probably that's going to disappear for not abiding by community standards... but there was a lot of anger out there, and not all of it couched in metaphor.  I guess the community standards people are going to have a busy time of it while individuals like that a) exist, and b) end up in power positions.  :evil:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on November 05, 2020, 15:59:45
A Scottish newspaper asked their readers via FB for a comment about Trump's presidency, using only 3 words. A friend of mine commented: "male cattle manure".  :lol:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 06, 2020, 00:50:59
Very apt. :lol:  You know, my usual theory is that you can grow really nice flowers in BS - friends and I who've been through enough childhood trauma to end up with complex PTSD seem to have grown a lot of flowers out of it all, and ended up with extra compassion and gratitude and caring about justice and really really seeing and feeling the beautiful things about life and the universe rather than taking them for granted.  But in this case, I'm not sure if the theory is holding.  There's just so much insanity.

On the plus side of course, we've had the counter-reactions and people galvanised together for decency and justice, such as the international women's marches in response to those "pussy-grabbing" attitudes, and Black Lives Matter becoming more and more supported by white people around the world... a friend of mine who actually marched in the original civil rights movement and met Rosa Parks said to me that the difference when she marched with her daughter in BLM in the US this year was that they weren't getting spat upon and jeered by bystanders, but got a lot of support, and this makes her hopeful.

On the other hand, when bullies run the classroom, they enable other bullies and give permission for disgusting behaviour to become the "new normal" - and sadly, that's also something we're seeing.  It's so inconceivable to me how someone who would not be considered to be of good enough character to teach children can end up getting such enthusiastic and widespread support to run a whole nation and wreak havoc upon the world.  However, I read an interesting take on this in the Guardian overnight:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/05/trump-narcissm-us-election-president

QuoteIt's strangely apt that such a raging narcissist should function as a distorted mirror to so many, one in which they see their own fantasies reflected back at them. Whether he actually is a billionaire or not has never been important: since the 1980s he has presented himself as the cartoon image of one - Daddy Warbucks crossed with a particularly rubbish Bond villain - and people see what they want to see. His white working-class supporters saw in him their own aggrievement at not being accepted by elites who rigged the game; the elites saw a fellow plutocrat who would protect their fortunes. Before this election I often heard people talk anxiously about how, even if Trump lost, "Trumpism" wouldn't go away.

But what even is Trumpism? The man has never had any moral code beyond closing the deal, and these days barely seems capable of maintaining a thought to the end of a sentence: the idea that he has the desire let alone the wherewithal to construct an ideology is like assuming that monkey on the typewriter is writing Hamlet. Read any thinkpiece and "Trumpism" is boiled down to nativism, showmanship and lying, all of which can be more accurately summed up as "being a racist grifter". In Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and his Followers, John W Dean and Bob Altemeyer rightly say that Trumpism is not about Trump at all, but about his followers and their own psychological predispositions. They look at him and see what they want to see: themselves.

I guess it's back to microcosm versus macrocosm, and the dysfunctionality of people's homes reflecting in the wider social institutions.  If you think it's normal and acceptable to act in dysfunctional ways towards the people in your own family, you're going to think it's normal and acceptable to do that anywhere else you've got power and opportunity.  So clearly, people who are bullies themselves are going to think nothing is wrong with this.  But the thing that really flabbergasts me is the people who just look past it - who think that all of that is unimportant, so long as they can vote for someone of their preferred political party...

I've got to say, I don't think people in Australia, the US or the UK have had anyone inspirational to vote for in their last elections (for PM/President anyway) - the offerings seem to become increasingly dire.  So I do think that our democracies are broken - the people going for the "representative" positions don't actually represent us, they represent corporate interests etc.  All three countries share a two-party political duopoly, and as far as I know, none of the three do proportional representation (Australia and the US don't anyway) and this just entrenches the duopoly.  So voting for a "representative" becomes like shopping at a supermarket - the illusion of a lot of choice, but actually so much rubbish that isn't good for you or the community or the planet at all, and very little that is.

Part of the problem I think is that decent people aren't generally drawn to politics.  But when they are, and if they survive all the BS, then this can be really heartening - look at Jacinda Ardern in NZ.  How I wish we could be annexed by NZ, and get her instead of the trolls we have in power...

Regardless of how depressing all of this is, I do think it's more important than ever for ordinary citizens to not just take this kind of rubbish, but take grass-roots action.  We do have voices, if only we will use them.
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 07, 2020, 00:28:17
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c45f6283ace71709a877e8b3a56295875a6cd0ea/0_198_2968_1781/master/2968.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=b128a7ae6403ba6d4dea575c596a5a44)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/55c483b6944d3b12b877a7553117d9b7e15aae37/0_5_3500_2101/master/3500.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=ed1981296512938f47d674cae3807859)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/96ef92dad92a93992d80dc5d5ff44e0e0f8cea00/0_259_3883_2330/master/3883.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=bb3e7d86b74e157d4961054781fa03c8)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ec475f5e92c2eec80fac192bcbcaa3a4fd090795/0_280_4200_2520/master/4200.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=e73fbcd5317da995e88e24907d17dd9d)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fdd5fd3e905523d4173441152c949148ded55edb/0_232_3500_2101/master/3500.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=12c106e75da7696bf0f6694f7f65cc55)

...some nice photos from The Guardian's headlines today. :)

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 07, 2020, 00:40:45
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 07, 2020, 18:05:30
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on November 07, 2020, 18:06:01
Good news:
Both CNN and FoxNews report that Biden is winning.

Better news:
Trump lost. 
:lol:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 07, 2020, 18:22:17
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on November 07, 2020, 19:22:51
Words fail me...
so...
(https://www.watson.ch/imgdb/e3e6/Qx,B,0,0,593,393,247,163,98,65/7334275664174972)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 08, 2020, 00:33:47
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/63a855227334ea6e03e1e75d0a0093b4a37dc1ff/0_108_3200_1920/master/3200.jpg?width=445&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=1dea0d7329f250f09762b464e3d48b52)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/8317dce0b287ca4354383001fd79679fdc718787/0_158_3500_2101/master/3500.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=fb8421c5e19d19935a1a04720b72b8e3)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/3befccf2c167c875371acdb762bdc871750a34c5/0_165_4988_2995/master/4988.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=a8442ce14b3841402c4cff1d09f29b98)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4266fb2b508133edbed1ffdaf9e08b25e0b65056/0_154_4611_2767/master/4611.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=dbbd68a3ab773ff6a75a54acea56992e)

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fda8059c04b428834d332a9db17bb7376fc55930/0_66_3984_2390/master/3984.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=bd5c285c412b9c51fd29913285d7bef4)

...just a few nice photos from the last 24h.  I ♥ the "Make America THINK again" on the back of the T-shirt in the 4th photo...

First Dog's summary:

(https://media.guim.co.uk/e9d5fcd2c579840980c9fc6d38a9377073b68d36/0_0_3508_4745/1479.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/08/its-president-biden-what-a-relief-for-the-whole-world

There's important things that need to happen instead of "business as usual" - this article discusses some of them:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/trump-defeat-election
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on November 08, 2020, 17:21:39
Quote from: Adam LopezAs an American, I wish our media was half as good as this. Good work Australia

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 08, 2020, 23:47:59
"Good" reporting?  Not from this mob; they spend half their lives trying to shore up the fossil fuel industry, and pretending climate change isn't real.  This is the kind of media that's a problem for our democracy - tied to commercial interests and distorting stories, and trying to feed them back to the uneducated population as fact to influence the vote.

As an Australian, I can recommend our independent ABC, although of course the right-wingers think they are a left-wing conspiracy - the way psychological projection usually goes - accuse the other side of the things you're actually doing yourself - like the Resident Rump's shrill squeals of "they stole the election" while he's trying to stop democratic processes from occurring, and starting dozens of lawsuits.

And gaslighting and reinventing the truth are some of the oldest tricks in the playbook of a narcissist (https://littleredsurvivor.com/2017/04/01/narcissism-101/). 

In Australia, we have a number-cruncher called Anthony Green who does a running analysis of all our national elections on the ABC, and has been in that role for decades.  This past week he's been applying his talents and impartiality to the US election.  He's highly educational - really explains the nitty-gritty to people who don't actually find electoral procedure and statistics riveting (AKA most of the population) - and is beloved and trusted by many Australians.  When Anthony gives his verdict on how an election has gone, he couches it in statistical probability - after explaining the way that works to people.  Nice, objective mathematical nerdery - which is so much more Zen than the wildly emotional, screechy, non-facts-based shock jocks who populate our commercial channels and radio.

The mathematicians say Joe Biden has won this one - wear it, conspiracy theorists.  (But they won't.  Not if it's not the outcome they wanted.)

In more amusing news - does anyone remember the time an Australian comedian from Chaser actually got into APEC while impersonating Osama bin Laden? (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/20/how-the-chaser-invaded-apec-a-small-camera-was-secreted-behind-his-scrotum)  :lol:

Here's a fun article from the Chaser on the US election:

QuoteAMERICA PASSES HISTORY TEST

America has today scraped a pass on their collective history exam, after narrowly gaining a 51% correct score on who should be their next President.

Though initially answering a) 'The fascist', Americans were then seen to cross out their answer and instead circle b) 'The guy who isn't perfect but at least he's not a fascist'.

The low grade has come as a surprise to many, who say America really should have got an A in this, given it's their favourite topic. "God they never shut up about it, you know how they came in and saved the day during World War 2 with their democracy and freedom, beating down the angry shouty fascist leader who led by dividing the country against minority groups. It's literally the same exam all over again, but somehow this time they almost forgot the answer."

The result is particularly troubling for the section of the class who didn't pull their part in the group project, the over 45-white-male demographic, who overwhelmingly chose the wrong answer. "Literally these guys' whole personality for the last 40 odd years has been based around studying World War history and boring everybody they meet with the ins and outs of how the Americans defeated the Nazis," sighed one exacerbated teacher. "How the hell they all managed to then walk into the exam room and so confidently select the wrong answer, I'll never know. They're almost as bad as my civil war students. Those idiots still haven't realised the south lost."

from https://chaser.com.au/world/america-passes-history-test/

You might also like:

https://chaser.com.au/world/trump-steps-down-to-spend-more-time-with-his-daughter/

https://chaser.com.au/world/comrade-biden-signals-to-begin-the-slaughter-of-billionaires/

:lol:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: word_on_a_wing on November 09, 2020, 14:04:44
I agree Sue, we are very fortunate to have the ABC in Australia... very good quality news reporting. 👍
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 09, 2020, 22:18:22
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 09, 2020, 22:28:17
(https://vmcdn.ca/f/files/shared/miscellaneous-stock-images/facepalm-statue.jpg;w=630)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on November 10, 2020, 11:24:00
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 11, 2020, 06:12:07
From one of the Crikey team:

QuoteHow could 71 million Americans vote for a bozo? Here's what you need to understand...

Yes nearly 71 million Americans voted for the vulgar conman, but Joe Biden nevertheless handed him an outstanding electoral rebuke.

For many Australians, last week's US election felt personal. We're steeped in American culture. We think we understand the place.

How then could nearly 71 million Americans have voted for a man who doesn't believe in democracy? How could it have been so close?

Let me comfort you.

Joe Biden's election was a resounding rejection of Trumpism. In fact this election was not very close as American elections go. Nate Silver, of FiveThirtyEight, projects Biden's winning margin in the popular vote will be north of four percentage points and possibly as high as six. Since 1996 only Barack Obama's 2008 win has been larger.

Biden is only the fourth challenger since World War II to unseat a one-term president. Democrats also flipped two Republican strong-hold states -- Georgia and Arizona -- and made Texas competitive. These changes would have been unthinkable two decades ago. As electoral rebukes go, it doesn't get much bigger.

Yes, Donald Trump's behaviour has been so monstrous, so destructive of democratic norms and institutions that it seems unthinkable any Americans would have voted for him, let alone 71 million. But Americans, especially Republican Americans, are more different from Australians than you think.

In 2002 I was part of an Australian 60 Minutes team that interviewed Trump -- then a failing casino-owner and buffoonish fixture on the social pages -- in his offices in Trump Tower, New York. We were reporting on New York's recovery from the 9/11 attacks six months earlier. Trump was bankrupt and eager for attention. The hair was an architectural marvel, but the man was unremarkable -- until the camera turned on. Then we got the show, the charismatic conman who would go on to dupe millions.

I mused that Trump exemplified the difference between Americans and Australians. He was the personification of "Big Time Barry", the term my father uses for people who have more regard for themselves than their achievements merit.

Sceptical by nature, Australians are suspicious of such braggadocio. Trump would have been laughed out of the office of every prospective lender in Australia. But in America he was not only credible, he thrived. His poor business record didn't stop large banks lending him millions. And then -- astounding those who knew the truth -- he became the face of corporate America for 12 million viewers of The Apprentice.

Americans are not sceptical. They believe in Hollywood stories. They are not disposed to be suspicious of a character like Trump.

Republican voters are particularly vulnerable to his con. For years, evangelical preachers in red states have taught congregants wealth equals morality. Their gospel of prosperity has convinced voters that conspicuous riches, like those of Trump, are God's reward for creating wealth and jobs.

Republican voters also live in information ecosystems that resemble those of an authoritarian state. Right-wing media disinformation campaigns have exploited the deep fear of communism instilled in Americans during the Cold War. Many Trump supporters fully believe Biden will turn America into a socialist state. Any media that says otherwise is seen as part of the conspiracy.

From an Australian lens, Republican leaders have always had repugnant policies. And yet about half the American electorate always votes for them (43% of Americans did not think Nixon should be removed from office after the Watergate scandal).

Trump had some way to go before he caused as much destruction to lives and personal liberties as the last Republican president, George W Bush. Bush, a C student, was deluded by neocons Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld that toppling Saddam Hussein would install a democracy that would "send forth the news, from Damascus to Teheran, that freedom can be the future of every nation".

That ludicrous notion underpinned the US-led Iraq invasion, giving birth to Islamic State and the death and displacement of millions of people across Iraq and Syria. More than a million returned servicemen and women from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan struggled with physical and mental health injuries that became burdens on families and communities.

The Bush administration forced all men in the US from Muslim countries -- including some of my journalist friends -- to register with authorities. The unlucky ones were detained without charge or recourse. At least 136 Muslim men were snatched and transferred by "extraordinary rendition" to secret black sites where they were tortured out of reach of international law.

A vast state surveillance was secretly established to monitor Americans. And Bush's parting gift to incoming president Obama in 2008 was an economic meltdown that wiped out the wealth of large swathes of Americans and sparked a global financial crisis.

Every Republican leader in three decades has opposed badly needed reforms that would provide health insurance for all Americans. They routinely lower taxes to corporations and the rich while cutting the social welfare net and defending obscenely low federal minimum wages (currently $7.25 an hour). Republicans spend 15% of the government budget on the military, deny climate change and oppose reforms to address entrenched racial and gender inequities.

And yet every time, roughly half of Americans vote for them.

With his vulgarity and disregard for democracy, Trump offended our sense of our selves. But Americans are different. The backlash against Trump represented by Biden's win last week is as good as it gets.

Prue Clarke is an Australian journalist who has lived in the US for most of the past 20 years.

from https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/11/11/us-election-repudiation-of-trumpism/

Original article at that site is fully referenced, with hyperlinks to sources.

...and a reader reply that does have a point:

QuoteI love your optimism, and wish I could share in it, but Australians are almost identical to the US, just following a few steps behind. Deeply suspicious of collectivism in any form, especially taxing those who should pay, enamoured of law and order politics, fond of marching off to war for spurious reasons, and willing to vote for vacuous leaders, the depth of whose policies is 'stop the boats' and 'have a go to get a go'.

We do have Medicare for all in Australia, and it's a good system, and I can't for the life of me understand why so many Americans are opposed to having such a system - it's fair and good value for the money we put into it - unlike private healthcare, which is all about making a shareholder profit, and therefore not good value for money.  Of course, our version of the Republicans, the Liberal/National COALition, want to dismantle Medicare, public education, our independent broadcaster of news and superb programmes on all sorts of relevant topics (the ABC), public transport, etc, and is constantly de-funding these things when they get into power.  They also share much with the Republicans in their attitudes to entrenched racism, misogyny, women's reproductive rights, environmental issues, poverty and homelessness.  Sadly, both sides of the Australian political duopoly want to continue to flog off public utilities like water, electricity, telecommunications and the postal service for privatisation, leading over the past 30+ years to increased consumer costs (to prop up the shareholders and to pay out millions in executive bonuses on top of already obscene executive salaries), poorer levels of service and little community say in how our utilities are run - and both sides continue to make laws that sign over increasing amounts of power to corporations and the big end of town, while stripping it from family businesses and ordinary citizens.

While in Australia we do have Trump supporters, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, lots of casual and not so casual bigots, men who think they should be free to rape women whenever they like and this should not be a crime but a male privilege, etc, the proportion of these loonies seems to be significantly smaller than in the US.  When some of them tried to pull stunts like "making me wear a mask is an infringement of my freedom" the vast majority of Australians felt that this was an imported American "value" which equates freedom with being able to do whatever the hell you want no matter whom you hurt or disadvantage in the process - a definition most Australians thankfully still reject.  Our "Bunnings Karen" (apologies to people named Karen!) was widely ridiculed, rather than being held up as some kind of national hero, when during a community outbreak, she threw a big "wobbly" over being asked to wear a mask in a hardware store, and started bullying and filming the store attendants while making loud and ridiculous declarations about how she was a free woman and was going to personally sue the staff.
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 15, 2020, 06:16:32
This was written over 30 years ago but never stopped being relevant, and makes a perfect anthem for the 2020 US election and its aftermath... because to get rid of rotten things on the outside, you also have to get rid of them on the inside and that's an ongoing attitude, not a one-off event...

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 16, 2020, 12:49:23
LOL
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 16, 2020, 14:01:13
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.7irbfpKrRLHONsuirR3NBQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on November 16, 2020, 17:37:55
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 19, 2020, 04:12:48
...and this was written by a Republican, mind you:

https://thebulwark.com/they-are-what-they-say-they-hate/

Also:

QuoteFinally, Biden reportedly told advisers this week that he doesn't want his presidency consumed by investigations into Trump's corruption. "Which is big of him," said Kimmel, "but what about what I want? I at least want a mugshot out of this. I want to see Trump in a jumpsuit that matches his skin."

...Meanwhile, in Washington, "the president is slowly, agonizingly going through the five stages of narcissistic grief: denial, denial, denial, denial, denial and denial. I know that's six, but Rudy [Giuliani] is demanding a recount."

from https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/nov/18/jimmy-kimmel-trump-late-night-tv

Finally, just for fun:

QuoteA couple of centuries and 45 presidents later, Old King Trump sits barricaded in the White House doing nothing much. His face puckered into that trademark rosebud of petulance. Barking at underlings. Pretending HE won because a lot of Democrat votes were from dead people and very illegal. His sulky-toddler folded arms, like that time he refused to say a single kind word when fellow Republican and war hero John McCain died. There's something almost majestic about Trump's utter contempt for the office of president.

Karl Marx - apparently the evil genius behind peaceful protest and Medicare - said that historical entities appear twice, "first as tragedy, then as farce". That feels about right.

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/17/donald-trump-king-george-iii-sequel
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on November 19, 2020, 16:50:20
Next try ... maybe with a little more luck. 😬

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 22, 2020, 01:40:16
(https://media.guim.co.uk/0f257771434c36d139e7cea139c63b1aeec4f8c5/0_0_3508_5596/3508.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/20/along-with-everything-else-trump-has-killed-satire-as-well

:lol:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on November 22, 2020, 14:38:21
No conceding still...

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on November 22, 2020, 17:40:01
Mr. Aschen...no, it's Rudy. 😉

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on November 26, 2020, 09:19:14
Microcosm, macrocosm...

QuoteFor years, Trump has managed to isolate his most fervent followers from reality, creating a parallel Maga world where Covid-19 is little more than a hoax, mail-in ballots don't count (unless they do) and behind every pizza place lurks a pedophile ring. And like many coercive partners, Trump refuses to let go.

Like many, Khan's immediate reaction on election night was one of suspicion and worry. She wrote that the "most dangerous time in a violent relationship is when you leave". She's still concerned that Trump's violent rhetoric is escalating rather than declining. "As someone that works daily with survivors of domestic violence and other forms of gender-based violence, I know that the risk of violence is often highest during the period of separation. People who cause harm will use anything available to them from coercive threats, lies or pleading to force the partner to stay," she says.

from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/25/trump-trauma-experts-abusive-relationship

Also, a nice opinion piece here:  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/bernie-sanders-working-class-win-back-from-donald-trump
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: word_on_a_wing on November 28, 2020, 02:47:31
I'm feeling thankful to all the people on Twitter who have made #DiaperDon go viral.

It seemed to start here with this photo
Twitter- Donny at the kids table (https://twitter.com/gregfellmer/status/1332465105921982464?s=19)

And then it spiralled in beautiful ways (by searching for #DiaperDon one could be entertained for hours. Plus Donny himself tweeted to oppose the trending tweet (ie he know #DiaperDon is trending) which makes it even more hilarious, and even more people getting on board 😂
I particularly liked seeing this video again (which has been around for several months)...
Twitter - #DiaperDon (https://twitter.com/mmpadellan/status/1332192353470324736?s=19)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on December 01, 2020, 11:43:59
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on December 01, 2020, 13:54:36
Oh my, what can I say but...
(http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2011-m03/att-0004/01-facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on December 08, 2020, 00:32:57
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5de0b170853dc0ae571b1e513396284a7539f8d1/3_0_3029_1819/master/3029.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=bbc6954ce78c1843b03a40fe1eee6ec1)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2020/dec/07/ben-jennings-on-donald-trumps-continuing-refusal-to-admit-defeat-cartoon
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on December 17, 2020, 00:38:06
(https://media.guim.co.uk/736c3cc64800a65e1dfd50a176c054927115302b/0_0_3508_5969/3508.jpg)

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/16/how-many-times-has-trump-lost-the-election-ahahahaha
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on December 17, 2020, 10:54:56
In case anyone wondered why a certain someone keeps telling the fairytale of "I won"... (the reason is very simple: money - of course)!

Quote from: undefinedNach mehr als 50 juristischen Niederlagen - davon zwei vor dem Supreme Court - dürfte auch dem republikanischen Noch-Präsidenten mittlerweile klar sein, dass das Wahlergebnis nicht mehr zu kippen ist - sollte er je daran geglaubt haben.

Warum Trump dennoch weiter stur bleiben dürfte, verrät ein Blick aufs Geld.

Trumps Team bittet um finanzielle Unterstützung
"Das ist vielleicht die wichtigste E-Mail, die ich Dir je geschickt habe", heißt es in einer der vielen Nachrichten, die Trumps Wahlkampfteam seit Wochen an Unterstützer schickt. Schnell wird klar, worum es geht: "Ich brauche DEINE HILFE." Schon fünf Dollar könnten den Kampf für die Rechtmäßigkeit der Wahl unterstützen, bei der es "gewaltige Unregelmäßigkeiten" gegeben habe.

Dass der Demokrat Biden die Wahl gewonnen hat, ist spätestens seit dem 7. November klar. Mittlerweile haben alle Bundesstaaten die Ergebnisse zertifiziert. Trump stellt sich trotzdem weiterhin als Opfer massiven Betrugs und als rechtmäßiger Sieger dar, ohne dafür je einen einzigen überzeugenden Beweis geliefert zu haben.

Die Appelle an die Unterstützer ziehen: In dem Monat nach der Wahl am 3. November haben Trump und seine Republikanische Partei nach Angaben von Trumps Wahlkampfteam mehr als 200 Millionen US-Dollar an Spenden eingesammelt. Das Geld ging demnach unter anderem bei den politischen Organisationen "Trump Victory" (Sieg Trumps) und "Save America" (Rettet Amerika) ein. Die Aufrufe suggerieren, dass alle Spenden in den juristischen Kampf gegen das Wahlergebnis fließen.

Weit gefehlt: Das Trump-Lager wendete nur einen Bruchteil der Spenden für die wenig erfolgreichen Anstrengungen auf, das Wahlergebnis zu Gunsten von Trump zu kippen, also für Klagen oder Neuauszählungen.

Wie aus einer Auflistung bei der für die Wahlkampffinanzierung zuständigen Behörde FEC hervorgeht, waren es bis zum 23. November weniger als 10 Millionen US-Dollar. Drei Millionen Dollar kostete allein eine teilweise Neuauszählung der Stimmen im Bundesstaat Wisconsin, bei der Trump keine Stimme hinzugewann.

Auf Trumps offizieller Wahlkampfseite erfährt der Spender im Kleingedruckten, dass 25 Prozent des Geldes an die Republikanische Partei geht und 75 Prozent an die kürzlich gegründete Organisation "Save America". Nur, wenn ein Spender mehr als 5000 US-Dollar gibt, geht die Spende auf ein Konto, das ausdrücklich für Kosten im Zusammenhang mit der Anfechtung der Wahl vorgesehen ist.

Trump habe seine Kleinstspender betrogen, sagt dazu Brendan Fischer vom Campaign Legal Center der Justiznachrichten-Plattform "Law and Crime". Das Campaign Legal Center setzt sich unter anderem für striktere Gesetze zur Wahlkampffinanzierung ein.

"Trumps trügerische und irreführende Behauptungen über eine manipulierte Wahl waren großartig, um Spenden zu sammeln, und sowohl Trump als auch die Republikanische Partei haben von diesem Spendensammeln profitiert." Es sei also ganz klar im Interesse Trumps und seiner Partei, damit weiterzumachen, bilanziert er.

https://www.gmx.net/magazine/politik/us-praesident-donald-trump/trumps-maer-wahlbetrug-geldstroeme-35351122
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on January 07, 2021, 00:17:57
Postcards from the Capitol:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFGaDhVgAQ_yfW?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFGaDDXUAA22C1?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFGaDSXMAImP0g?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErFGaDGWMAAbV7I?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 07, 2021, 05:21:58
Quote"Always interesting to see how white protestors can encounter so little resistance and breach the capitol with the vice-president there, while black protestors would be lying dead in front of the capitol building right now," wrote the writer Roxane Gay.

"White privilege is on display like never before in the US Capitol," tweeted the author and scholar Ibram X Kendi.

Others pointed to the stark contrast between law enforcement's response to the mob at the Capitol versus their treatment of protesters against police brutality.

"Peaceful protestors got pepper sprayed so Trump could hold a Bible upside for a photo in front of a church," tweeted Shannon Sharper, a former American football player, referring to an incident that took place over the summer in the midst of protests following the police killing of George Floyd.

"Thinking about all the protestors who got their eyes shot out by rubber bullets this summer for doing things like 'walking'," said the journalist Libby Watson. Dozens of people who were peacefully protesting for racial justice, along with some journalists who were covering the events, have sustained serious injuries from rubber bullets and teargas that were used by police to disperse crowds.

"Appears the 'looting/shooting' rule does not apply to everyone," wrote the Atlantic writer Adam Serwer in reply to a picture of an insurgent walking away with a podium, referring to Trump's tweet in May telling racial justice protesters that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts".

The New Yorker writer Jelani Cobb said the aggressiveness of the police in Ferguson, Missouri, following the police killing of Michael Brown compared with officers' response to the mob at the Capitol was "effing astounding".

from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/06/us-capitol-trump-mob-police-protesters


QuoteI call it a coup attempt because, though I assume it will not prevent the Biden presidency, it certainly intended to, and is part of a campaign to delegitimize and thereby weaken the incoming administration. It was a long time coming, building up for years with white rage, especially white male rage fueled by everyone from Trump himself to the National Rifle Association, Fox News and the various rightwing pundits, the Republican party, the various faces of white supremacy, and the far-right groups such as the Proud Boys. It is a rage against the fact that other people might be equal under the law, that women and people of color might also govern as power begins to be distributed more equally, the same rage that attempted to delegitimize a black president with birtherism and obstruction. It is a rage against equality.

... The kind of violence we saw on Capitol Hill is authoritarian, a way to try to force other people to submit to the will of the perpetrators. This violence comes from the white men who were long the only people with power in this country imagining themselves as marginalized and oppressed outsiders because others might also have power and a voice. We saw these kind of men last summer, when they invaded the Michigan capital while carrying semiautomatic rifles and saw them again when a handful of them were arrested for a plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We saw them in racist shootings from the Texas border to a Pennsylvania synagogue.

This coup attempt was built by the more and more uninhibited ideology of violence we have seen again and again, in the mass shootings that became a norm in 21st-century America, the fetishization of guns and gun rights that made the killing machines and the death they inflict far more common, so that death by gun recently overtook death by car as a leading American way to die.

As I write, I hear a Republican leader on TV say "Remember we are the party of law and order," and, of course, the riot going on in the Capitol is technically lawless, but "law and order" as a rightwing slogan means that they are the law and they impose their version of order. Authoritarianism is always an ideology of inequality: I make the rules, you follow them, I change them at will and punish those who don't obey, or, if I feel like it, those who do because I can. Frank Wilhoit once said: "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition ... There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." They are demonstrating that nothing binds them and that they expect to have whatever they want. Entitlement is too demure a word for this.

from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/06/trump-mob-storm-capitol-washington-coup-attempt


QuoteAnd you wake, flick on The Washington Post, and see a horned protester in American flag body paint heading a mob forcing their way into the marble halls of the US Congress.

God damn it, history actually happened. Protesters lolling in the Senate president's chair, after the chamber was evacuated, rifling through people's desks. Extraordinary scenes.

Here it is, what popular culture has been dreaming of in a thousand crappy movies and comic books: the moment when the US government loses its imperial unitary power all at once, and becomes as one with the tin-pot countries in whose capitals it had fomented coups that looked exactly like this one, ragged militias in the shining set of power. Someone seize the airport and the television station!

Whether you call it a coup or not -- it appears to be both a ham-fisted version of one and a simulation of it at the same time -- it surely marks the conclusion of America's rhetorical power, its capacity to project global dominance and legitimate authority.

Could one imagine this happening in the Great Hall of the People in Beijing? My god, there wouldn't even be a wet spot left where the protesters had been.

This sudden loss of global power projection comes not because the storming represents a planned assault on state power -- although it opens an opportunity for a real civil war within the branches of government -- but because it doesn't, because it has occurred through a mix of lassitude and poor planning, and the habitual soft policing of right-wing events.

Had it been a Black Lives Matter protest, the Capitol would have been ringed with steel, troops with fixed bayonets several deep, as it was during the march on the Pentagon and other Vietnam protests.

from https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/01/07/capitol-siege-america-collapses/


Good news though:  The Republicans won't be controlling the senate.
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 11:37:26
Quote from: dsanchez on January 07, 2021, 00:17:57Postcards from the Capitol

Nice that these idiots deliver photographic "proof" of their trespassing, will make it easier for the state attorney. :cool
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 07, 2021, 11:42:21
I can't see the postcard!
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 11:45:12
Quote from: SueC on January 07, 2021, 11:42:21I can't see the postcard!

They're only in dsanchez' post, I saw no point in leaving them within the quote.
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 07, 2021, 12:06:01
No, I mean I can't see anything in David's post except text! :)

...and all my JavaScript is on...

...maybe it's a region thing...
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 14:15:41
Well I guess your machine is automatically blocking pics of self-important idiots... :evil:

(You're not missing much, just some blokes in the Capitol, who don't seem to know what to do there now, except take a few pics and selfies.)

Quote from: SueC on January 07, 2021, 05:21:58Good news though:  The Republicans won't be controlling the senate.

Yep, with a majority in parliament(s), Biden and his Democrats might be able to change some things which went wrong.  :cool
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 07, 2021, 15:04:47
Quote from: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 14:15:41Well I guess your machine is automatically blocking pics of self-important idiots... :evil:

ROFL  :lol:

That's got to be it!

Quote from: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 14:15:41(You're not missing much, just some blokes in the Capitol, who don't seem to know what to do there now, except take a few pics and selfies.)

Saw that in the Guardian - and they smashed windows and furniture and threw people's work papers all over the floor and sat at desks with their boots up on people's work spaces like the oafs they are.  :evil:

What do you call 1,000 conspiracy theorists at the bottom of the ocean?  ...a good start.  :P
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 07, 2021, 15:40:16
Quote from: SueC on January 07, 2021, 15:04:47Saw that in the Guardian - and they smashed windows and furniture and threw people's work papers all over the floor and sat at desks with their boots up on people's work spaces

These were exactly the photos posted (I guess the "postcard" comment was ironic), seen 1 or 2 you've seen them all.  :P
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 08, 2021, 08:24:42
(https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/8-1-21-Gorkie-for-Crikey-copy.jpg)

from https://www.crikey.com.au/

Some interesting articles there today:

QuoteHypocritical rats abandon the Trump Titanic, but it's all too little too late

Trump loyalists are abandoning him after the violence in Washington, but let's not pretend there's anything heroic about their actions.

Talk about rats fleeing a sinking ship.

Actually, the exodus in Washington after the storming of the Capitol yesterday is more reminiscent of the heady days of the French Revolution or the fall of the Nazis, where collaborators switched sides just as their necks looked vulnerable...

from https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/01/08/trump-allies-hypocrites/


QuoteWashington mayhem divides the nation as poll shows support for protest

Condemnation for the US Capitol riots came swiftly from abroad, but inside the country it's another matter entirely.

The storming and brief occupation of the US Capitol by supporters of President Donald Trump has attracted more or less universal condemnation from the media and political establishment (however equivocal, lukewarm, or clearly sympathetic some of it it may be) -- unless you count Trump himself (or Miranda Devine). But how is this playing with Trump's base in the red states?

Certainly, as CNN walked around the riots yesterday, many protesters expressed pride and excitement at what was happening. Bear in mind, this wasn't the types dressed as Vikings or those wearing clothes branded with "Camp Auschwitz". CNN's focus was largely on calm, polite middle-aged folk.

In Alabama -- a state which was home to one of the four rioters who died, this person apparently of a heart attack -- a group of returning protestors denied that the riots represented an attempted coup, but told the media "this is only the beginning"...

According to YouGov polling, 68% of Republicans don't see the storming of the Capitol building as a threat to democracy (as opposed to 93% of Democrats and 55% of independents who do). Indeed, 45% of the Republicans surveyed actively support it.

In both of the above polls, the overall majority of those questioned condemned the riots and believed Joe Biden won fairly. But yesterday illustrated what the portion who don't are capable of, and what kind of resistance they are likely to face.

...and an astute reader comment:

QuoteThe trouble with all those 'threat to democracy' articles I'm reading is the premise: that the USA is a democracy. Start with simple voter suppression and disenfranchisement; move on to the pervasive influence - no, let's call it control - of the military-industrial-corporate-financial complex, including its corrupt buying off of most US politicians; then look at the MSM propaganda machine and the depredations of benignly misnamed 'social media'; finishing off with the general ignorance of the poorly educated populace, and what do you have? Democracy?

from https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/01/08/us-capitol-washington-riot-reaction/


QuoteTrump as a gonzo Jefferson taps into the deep well of American resistance

Again and again, we think Trump is finished. Will this time be any different?

Throughout the political career of President Donald Trump, the mainstream -- and that is most of us -- have repeatedly declared him finished with each fresh outrage.

This goes all the way back to the presidential campaign, and the Access Hollywood tape. Remember that? Trump caught on tape saying he could get away with groping women. It seemed unimaginable that his campaign could continue. But it did...

When the ragtag army of far-rightists invaded the Capitol yesterday -- a mix of delusional MAGA-head Trump worshippers and ideological fascists who regard him as a useful buffoon -- and Trump gave them a peekabo endorsement, everyone was in agreement that that was it, it's over, dust off the 25th amendment, re-impeach, etc.

And then that evening the Republicans trooped back in and nearly 150 of them voted to reject certification of an election in which there is no evidence of statistically significant electoral fraud. Simultaneously, a YouGov poll was released showing that 45% of Republicans, and 20%-plus of the whole country thought the Capitol invasion was justified.

One suspects that such support is a mix of hard-right fervour about an election stolen by "woke communists", and a touch of Jeffersonian anarchy, the belief that the whole system needs a real shake up now and again...

from https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/01/08/trump-gonza-jefferson/
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 08, 2021, 09:35:46
QuoteTrump loyalists are abandoning him after the violence in Washington, but let's not pretend there's anything heroic about their actions.

Very true. Same goes for Trump himself, under pressure he now condemns the attack...

QuoteHouse Speaker Nancy Pelosi urged Vice-President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th amendment to the Constitution to declare the president unfit for office.

Alternatively, she vowed to initiate the process to impeach the president.

Under pressure, Donald Trump finally condemned the "heinous attack".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55583264
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on January 08, 2021, 17:13:03
XD

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 09, 2021, 00:55:09
:lol:

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.L3U8ACD_lYEKAl46RxNDdgHaE7%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: dsanchez on January 09, 2021, 02:21:17
:winking_tongue

Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 09, 2021, 03:40:32
Ha ha!  :lol:

(https://c.tenor.com/kX1Xg6WG4eUAAAAj/laugh-lol.gif)
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on January 09, 2021, 10:46:00
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 10, 2021, 12:16:25
Super essay in the NYT overnight, if anyone missed it!  The American Abyss (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html)

...and also an interesting take from Trump's niece:  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/mary-trump-my-uncle-is-unstable-he-needs-to-be-removed-immediately
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: MeltingMan on January 10, 2021, 17:37:15
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 11, 2021, 11:14:46
In my opinion, impeachment takes too long, the Republicans should have the courage to remove him (according to the 25th amendment).
However, this might "backfire": if he is removed due to being "mentally unstable", in a later court case he could say he was "temporarily insane" and thus "not responsible" for his deeds.  :unamused:
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 11, 2021, 13:37:27
The beauty about impeachment is that he'd never be able to hold public office again, and that he'd not get the ginormous golden-handshake pension and lifelong security detailing of an ex-President.

Yeah, he's insane, clearly, but like you say, the problem with using the 25th amendment and formalising his insanity is that he'd then be able to potentially get off a lot of his crimes on the plea of insanity.

The other real problem is that over 70 million Americans are apparently insane as well - and/or have their basic values way out of whack.
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: Ulrich on January 11, 2021, 17:07:16
Article in German (sorry), some interesting views.
Trump's persona will stay present for a while...

QuoteExperte: Donald Trump hat den Westen diskreditiert

Kaim hält den Vorschlag von Außenminister Heiko Maas, mit den USA gemeinsam einen Plan zur Stärkung der Demokratien zu entwickeln, grundsätzlich für richtig. In Trumps Amtszeit sei "der Westen als Modell diskreditiert worden", sagte er.

"Der Verfall der amerikanischen Demokratie hat eben dazu geführt, dass viele autoritäre oder totalitäre Länder sich über den Westen lustig machen" würden. Er denke da an Russland und China.

Allerdings warnte Kaim vor überzogenem Optimismus.

"Auch Joe Biden wird erstmal eine innenpolitische Präsidentschaft antreten", sagte er. Der künftige Präsident habe in vielen Detailfragen wie Handelsthemen "durchblicken lassen, dass eine Variante von "America First" auch zu seiner politischen Agenda gehören" werde. Das werde nur nicht so aggressiv und feindselig sein wie unter Trump.
https://www.gmx.net/magazine/politik/us-praesident-donald-trump/experte-donald-trump-bleibt-trotz-abwahl-machtfaktor-35426068
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 12, 2021, 01:16:01
I've a friend who took part in the original civil rights movement marches in the US (actually met Rosa Parks) and who now lives in Florida (Trump epicentre).  The other day I wrote to her, in part:  I continue to hear the news from the US in horror, both all that unnecessary COVID and the huge popular support for that horrible person and all the truth-twisting and stupidity and conspiracy theories and now people rampaging through the Capitol with the very police who tear-gassed peaceful BLM protestors apparently aiding and abetting them. It's upsetting me, and I don't even live in your country. I don't know how you cope... how are you doing? ♥

Her reply was so graphic and informative I asked if I could share it - because these are the American voices we're not hearing very much.  She's happy for you to read what she wrote.  Here it is.

QuoteI was horrified when I saw the news...it was devastating. What is even more devastating to me is that the supporters of this madman continue to revere him. I could not and have not been able to understand, since 2015, why so many people I used to respect and admire think he is so amazing and wonderful. Today I checked the "Presidential Poll" and see that, although his acceptance is lower than it was last week, it is still not very low.

I cannot find out if any of the hundreds of supporters in my circle of acquaintances and friends have lost faith in this man because years ago, I asked everyone of that ilk not to discuss politics with me. And when they try, I shut them down. So, I cannot bring it up. Also, it would literally make me sick to my stomach to hear their ridiculous belief in the lies. I live in the heart of ultra conservative country. I have only 2 close friends who think that people who are hurting and in trouble deserve to be helped, even though they haven't contributed. The rest think that only people who have paid into the system should get anything out of the system.

I can't talk about politics to these people because of a flaw in my nature. I have known since I was quite young that when under stress, I can't think or talk. Suddenly, I am so shocked and stunned by the stupid mind boggling unthinking beliefs, that I cannot form any answers or bring forth any facts. But facts wouldn't affect these people anyway. They have their "alternative facts" (lies) which they insist are true. It's like trying to tell someone that it is night because the sky is dark and the stars are out, and they insist that it is day. What else can you say to someone like that?

What happened to their brains? I used to think they had brains, but clearly they do not. I have decided several things (1) most, if not all, are secretly racist (2) they read and follow only certain news sources which constantly re-tell lies (3) they are extremely fearful people. I have noticed that they are the people who never take chances. Yesterday I was riding with the madman supporter who said she would never sky dive under any circumstances. I said if someone offered it to me, all set up, and not cost anything, I would jump at the chance. (4) I read an editorial that showed in a study that conservatives tend to be more inclined to authoritarian leaders. Hmm, seems to be true in my experience.

About covid. Florida is rife with it. Churches are open, people singing, sitting close together, having get-togethers, funerals . . .and passing it around and dying . . . all the while denying that it even exists. I'll bet I can name you ten or even 20 acquaintances who insist it is only the flu. Last week a riding friend insisted that no more people have died this year than last year. It's all a hoax to discredit our glorious leader. What can you say to someone like that? My neighbor two places away told me the hospitals are not full. It's just flu. No one is dying. Doctors are not busy. Nurses are being laid off. I live among crazies. It isn't real fun. I am doing OK. I enjoy the horses lots. I ask these people to leave their opinions in their brains and not express them to me.

She added a few things today that she thinks people should know, about what she wrote above.

QuoteYes, certainly, you may share what I wrote . . . but you have to remember that I live in a bastion of Trump lovers. Obviously, the majority of Americans do not support Trump. So, my views are skewed because of the people I live around...

I'm sure it is character building (albeit extremely confusing) to have numerous close friends who are completely ideologically at odds with me. My daughter's adopted grandmother (long story--our kids are adopted, we are an older couple, all grandparents are gone, a sweet lady from our church saw that my daughter had no grandparents to love and spoil her, so she offered to "adopt" my daughter and be her grandma . . . and do all the grandmotherly things that my daughter would miss) is a devout Christian, a pillar of the church, and someone anyone could easily admire . . . and yet she adores Trump, thinks he can do no wrong, has "Make America Great Again" signs and Trump signs in her yard. How can someone so sweet and kind and good and someone who values being kind and good adore someone so clearly selfish and evil???? This lady has Hispanic next door neighbors who recently emigrated from Mexico. They are good people, hard workers, conscientious and great neighbors. She LOVES them. She spends hours with them, helping them with English, playing with their children, bringing them food when they got covid (the whole family but none died), very involved with their lives. And I am certain not in a condescending way because she would never be condescending. She's a wonderful lady. How can someone like that want to build a wall and approve of shooting and tear gassing Mexican mothers and children? How can she approve of separating moms from their kids when she offered to be my daughter's grandma? (she is also the Mexican family's grandma as well because their grandmas are in Mexico) It boggles my mind.

And she isn't the only one. I believe I said that there are many MANY folks that I used to admire that see NO wrong in Trump at all. None. They think he is great. One person is a famous author that is my pen pal. We've never met, but we write to each other and have for 15 years. She belongs to Mensa, that organization for way intelligent people. You have to pass a high IQ test to get in. She's thoughtful, insightful, kind. Also, she has dabbled in being a lesbian and isn't sure what her sexuality is, but feels open about sex with men and women. And yet she wrote to me that she was "singing and dancing" when Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Change Agreement. She is certain there is no climate change. It's all a hoax. Among many many other Trump distortions. She believes them all.

So, that's me. That's where I live. But that's not where a majority of people live or think. My best friend, who still lives in Maryland, where I grew up, close to Washington DC, says, "Please don't talk about Trump" not because she hears people liking him. It's because she's so tired of everyone bashing him. She despises him, but she doesn't want to hear complaining and whining--has a bellyfull of it every day. I would be surprised if she knows anyone who likes him. It just depends on your location, I think. Just want to clarify that with you.

Thank you endlessly for allowing me to vent. I need to vent. My husband voted for Trump and now bitterly regrets it. I can never discuss any of my dissatisfactions with Trump with him because he says it is "rubbing his nose in it." He wants to forget he ever thought Trump would be good for our country. He couldn't stand Hillary Clinton (neither could I, but I voted for her--lesser of two evils). Hillary was/is creepy, selfish, and grasping. But I could see that she wasn't as bad as you-know-who."


There's a very personal, inside view of the madness in America, from an ordinary citizen, not a journalist.  My heart goes out to my friend, and others in the US living with this madness.  We have a fair few loonies here in Australia too, but not at the critical mass at which they are present in the US, where they can significantly affect public life like this.  I worry also because I remember my grandmother's stories about Hitler, and how he duped people.  He boasted that the bigger the lie, the more readily people believe it, and it seems to me that Trump has been singing from Hitler's songbook, with this and a plethora of other things.

If any of you have friends in the States, they might be able to use some emotional support right now. ♥
Title: Re: US Elections 2020
Post by: SueC on January 13, 2021, 10:05:15
I'm subscribed to Crikey, which yesterday ran an excellent series of articles on the link between media and right-wing extremism in the US, and increasingly, Australia.  Their investigative journalists are pretty good most of the time, and this series also contains articles by two former Australian prime ministers on the subject.  I'm sharing the link, which, if it works, should have about seven articles in it.

https://go.pardot.com/webmail/272522/805355258/f53fffee1f947d85762e1fd881ff5845d649def0f054f3dd5c14c43639f8f388

(https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Frankenstein-740-x-400-Tom-Red.jpg)