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(When) Will The Cure Get A Keyboardist?

Started by Bloodflower, May 31, 2007, 22:01:22

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strange_day

This all seems a bit old doesnt it?

I can see that people dont like Porls playing for that reason, but its always been that way, its just more noticeable now.

I liked the way Perry's guitar sounded and the way he crafted feedback was awesome, i miss that. If anything id rather have him aswell, occasionally playing keyboards, also on guitar......... but that goes back to the idea of dream line-ups everyone has.

I never really got used to Rogers over improvised stuff, it only worked on 2 songs Trust and Homesick... but in songs like a Forest it didnt work, i always hated keyboards in Primary too, they just seemed there for the sake of it.

I think if they had one onstage for occasional use, that'd be the perfect balance

But you cant tell these people what to do, theyre musicians, they wont listen to anyone.  ;)

crowbi_wan

I too think it would be nice to have Perry back as an additional guitarist that would occasionally play keys.  But Porl is the king of feedback in terms of Cure guitarists.  He was the one that added all those layers on Wish that really gave certain songs depth through noise  :rocker 

japanesebaby

October 13, 2007, 07:04:04 #32 Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 12:07:13 by japanesebaby
i kind of like this experiment without keys. it has bothered a lot of people because people keep talking about it but even though it's completely clear that some songs crave keyboards, i still kind of like the idea of experimenting. really, i'd hate to listen to live recordings and notice that they sound the same in '89, '92, '96... 2007. i like the idea that there has been different bands called the cure with different sound, with different focus in their sound. i think it would be dreadful if they just kept playing all the songs just like they did 20 years ago. true, some songs they can't play as well as they used to, unfortunately. but imo that's not mainly because they lack keys: it's mainly because they can't play the really upbeat songs fast enough anymore. and also maybe because they seem to stick to click tracks in everything.   

what comes to perry joining the current band as guitarist/keyboardist, i'm not entirely sure what i think of it. on the other hand i always liked perry and i think he was ok with keys - not great but he could handle most things he needed to handle. in the context of the cure's music, i actually liked him more than a "lush" keyboardist like roger. i never found rogers style really fitting to my idea of the cure - the original key parts in many classic cure songs are really very simple and graphic so to speak, not improvisational (like roger's style was). i almost feel like roger was "too skilled" a keyboardist for the cure - by which i mean he wanted to play too much, improvise too much, add things where they shouldn't be. in my opinion that just didn't really fit the context of many of the cure songs. then again, i do find experimental/improvisational guitar parts fitting to their style well... so i'm not sure if i manage to explain my point here very well... hmm.
anyway, another thing would be that since porl's back, he does take a lot of "sonic space", due to his particular style. try adding keys/ additional guitar to that and it just might get too crowded - that would mean everything might become more or less messy, especially on a bad day - if you're going to have improvisationally oriented musicians aboard you should also make sure there's room for them, to move about.

i remember reading an old interview (can't remember where/when exactly) from the wish tour period where robert said how the currect (wish tour) lineup very tight but also a tricky combination on stage, because there were three guitars there already and how there was very little space for everyone and very little room to experiment anything. everyone just had to remember to stick to the things they've planned and agreed upon, otherwise it would easiyl get out of hands.
thinking about that, i'd like to see it that there are periods with more room to experiment too (like now?) whereas there has been periods when this was not really possible.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

Steve

@Marika
On Roger, you're spot on. Over-skilled is a good way to describe it.
& they do need to be careful about overcrowding too. Nothing worse than a cluttered sound.
If there are to be keys, they don't need to be full on, "big cushions & velvet curtains" fat keys, but just the filling to the sandwich, as it were.
Stick Seventeen Seconds on for instance. Nothing flash, but very effective keyboard parts.
Cheers
Steve
I know tomorrow's going to taste like cake
http://www.balatonfured.hu/en_index.php

Cure Freak

I just miss the keys, No matter who is  playing them. There are quite a few songs which are not totally complete without them. Such as the ones, mentioned by others.  I would love to see \\band to have a keyboardist. Hope, it comes about in the futher.

And i think Porl is one of the best guitarist around.

Janko

THE WORST THING THEY CAN DO IS TO RECORD AN ALBUM WITH KEYBOARDS AND THE GO ON TOUR WITHOUT THEM...

AH, BACKING TRACKS WILL PATCH THINGS UP!

:-D
Fatter than Bob, balder than Porl, as sober as Simon, as amusing as Jason

closedown

don't think this will happen to soon, as Robert is on his 'everything sounds better without keyboards' trip, where I just ask myself, as this is the case why did he need 24 years to find out... anyway, obviously the keys are missing, many of my most beloved Cure songs rely on keyboards.
the option they are taking now by recreating keyboards on guitar is totally boll*cks if you ask me, either drop the songs from the set, rewrite a guitar part instead (but not tranfering key->guitar) or leave out the keyboard part + go to a more minimalist sound.
some of the songs mentioned here, they hurt so much to be heard this way with that horrible (I hate funky guitarsounds... always have and always will) funk guitarsound they mix into The Walk, Close To Me or LGTB not to mention Lovesong + Lullaby... (I won't go into the Plainsong debate again this version is so bad it is without words)
I know it will be hard if certain songs won't be played but why bother, I mean Cure have enough songs that would work in this lineup - remember when Roger wasn't in the band they didn't bother to try out things like Prayers For Rain cause it wouldn't have worked...
hm + as many suggest what is so much the problem that for some songs they use a keyboard? this could be even very interesting going back to the 17 Seconds days in that style - get 2 vintage analogue synths onto the stage (Roland SH09 + a Solina String or what about Roland JX8-P like in the mid 80es, use HiString Patch + Wave Aura sound for A Forest intro) and use it in some songs - won't harm anyone but enrich the live pleasure! gets a more minimalist sounding Cure with straight into the face sound.
Oh, by the way, what is Matthieu Hartley doing these days? why not give him a call or try to get back Lol for some synths

scatcat

Quote from: closedown on October 15, 2007, 18:29:50
don't think this will happen to soon, as Robert is on his 'everything sounds better without keyboards' trip, where I just ask myself, as this is the case why did he need 24 years to find out... anyway, obviously the keys are missing, many of my most beloved Cure songs rely on keyboards.
the option they are taking now by recreating keyboards on guitar is totally boll*cks if you ask me, either drop the songs from the set, rewrite a guitar part instead (but not tranfering key->guitar) or leave out the keyboard part + go to a more minimalist sound.
some of the songs mentioned here, they hurt so much to be heard this way with that horrible (I hate funky guitarsounds... always have and always will) funk guitarsound they mix into The Walk, Close To Me or LGTB not to mention Lovesong + Lullaby... (I won't go into the Plainsong debate again this version is so bad it is without words)

I know it will be hard if certain songs won't be played but why bother, I mean Cure have enough songs that would work in this lineup - remember when Roger wasn't in the band they didn't bother to try out things like Prayers For Rain cause it wouldn't have worked...
hm + as many suggest what is so much the problem that for some songs they use a keyboard? this could be even very interesting going back to the 17 Seconds days in that style - get 2 vintage analogue synths onto the stage (Roland SH09 + a Solina String or what about Roland JX8-P like in the mid 80es, use HiString Patch + Wave Aura sound for A Forest intro) and use it in some songs - won't harm anyone but enrich the live pleasure! gets a more minimalist sounding Cure with straight into the face sound.
Oh, by the way, what is Matthieu Hartley doing these days? why not give him a call or try to get back Lol for some synths




I have always found the keyboard to be unique to the Cure songs.. there are many songs, too many to mention and bore you all by listing.. There is something missing and, yes, it would be stupid to record the songs with keyboard and NOT PLAY them live, but what to do, Huh?? Still, to mention again .. the Melbourne concert was obvious that some things can be re-interpreted, even with the eccentric guitar antics of Porl, and filling the Void of the Keyboards.. :smth100  but they didn't play ..  Lovecats.. IMHO I wouldv'e preferred to hear the keyboard accompaniment to those that need the keyboards.., if they did play them!!
:smth020
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life

japanesebaby

i have to say i've really enjoyed song like 'the walk' the way they've been playing it recently.
but i guess it's a matter of taste in guitar styles. so whereas i've always admired porl's style, i can understand he's not into everyone's liking. that has never been a problem for me to accept, i don't mind. and no i  don't absolutely love all their new arrangements, not all of them. some do sound like they miss something sonically, maybe. but some, like especially 'the walk' (imo) have sounded really fresh in my ears. i almost feel like it's the only way they can keep playing such sillier kind of their songs anymore, by trying out something new. it would be somehow pointless if they did it the same way year after year after year. then again it's completely different with songs like 'faith', of course...

personally i don't feel like it's a matter of robert needing 24 years to find out they don't need keyboards. when they had keys, i'm sure he thought they absolutely needed them right then. so i don't feel like he's/they are somehow denying their whole past or their earlier output/live achievements now by doing what they do now (if that was what you meant?).
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

scatcat

Quote from: japanesebaby on October 15, 2007, 18:50:29
i have to say i've really enjoyed the walk, the way they've been playing it recently.
but i guess it's a matter of taste in guitar styles. whereas i've always admired porl's style, i can understand he's not into everyone liking. that has never been a problem for me to accept. and i don't absolutely love all the new arrangements they've had, not all of them. some do sound like they miss something sonically, maybe. but some, like the walk (imo) have sounded really fresh in my ears.

personally i don't feel like it's a matter of robert needing 24 years to find out they don't need keyboards. when they had keys, i'm sure he thought they absolutely needed them right then. so i don't feel like he's/they are somehow denying their whole past or their earlier output/live achievements now by doing what they do now (if that was what you meant?).


yes..the band has to evolve..  :smth023 I did like the version of the Walk that was played.. GOD being at the concert..u forget everything that came before.. I wasn't one of those that sat there (which I witnessed) and "wanted to be impressed"!!  :smth011 I was amazed at the role Robert took up with the guitar.. that was impressive enuff!!  ohh. to be there again.,. :cry:  I was jumping up and told to sit down.. everything went so fast, but I need another fix now.. but maybe now and then, keyboards could create that sound that WAS..
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life

devoblue

I think it's easy to complain about no keyboards when you're listening to a recording of a live show, but when you are actually there it's a different thing.  I've seen them 3 times this year and I didn't miss the keys at all.

The walk was great, close to me had such a massive bassline that you were left short of breath, and plainsong, which for me is all about the bass anyway lost nothing.

It's a similar argument for those who thought it a good thing that they didn't play FTEOTDGS at the Download festival. Admitedly I used to feel this way myself, but the setlist isn't arranged for those listening to recordings. On three seperate nights in August I had tears in my eyes with that song, and if I'd gone to Download I would have been disappointed by its absence.  To avoid being off topic I think that FTEOTDGS is musically better without keys, as that anoying repetitive note (C ?) is no longer there.
f*ck Parental Advisory.  Mines a Pint.

CureCrusader

Quote from: devoblue on October 16, 2007, 07:10:51
I think it's easy to complain about no keyboards when you're listening to a recording of a live show, but when you are actually there it's a different thing. 
The walk was great, close to me had such a massive bassline that you were left short of breath, and plainsong, which for me is all about the bass anyway lost nothing.

It's a similar argument for those who thought it a good thing that they didn't play FTEOTDGS at the Download festival. Admitedly I used to feel this way myself, but the setlist isn't arranged for those listening to recordings. On three seperate nights in August I had tears in my eyes with that song, and if I'd gone to Download I would have been disappointed by its absence.  To avoid being off topic I think that FTEOTDGS is musically better without keys, as that anoying repetitive note (C ?) is no longer there.


I totally agree devoblue.. breathless is the only way to describe the performance.. it seems

nothing was missing, only enhanced! :rocker
Who am I? Who are you? Is this world what we percieve it to be? Do we even exist?

gioez

I just say this: they played keyboards when they was only three (81-82 period), so I guess they can play it during this tour, especially Porl. And it depends on songs they want to perform. Boys don't cry, Figurehead and Push, for example, are perfect without keyboards.
100 Years

Secrets

Did this ever get posted anywhere? It's a couple months old now.  Sorry, if it was and I've doubled it.

From http://www.84tigers.com/?m=200708

QuoteAs the new four-piece Cure have been playing sans keyboards, Porl Thompson has been playing those lines on guitar. But this does not mean that the new album will mean "guitar rock" or anything like that, or indeed that there is anything wrong with keyboards in general. Some people are still of the opinion that keyboards = an abomnimation, and that the very presence of one will mean Rick Wakeman appears wearing a cape, much like drawing pentagrams on floors may invite demons.

"I’ve realized that there’s a low-level concern about keyboards, but there’s keyboards on pretty much every Cure album apart from Three Imaginary Boys, and in the main, they’ve been played by me or Porl, even when we had Roger O’Donnell  in the band. Roger used to admit that a lot of the lines I would play because he couldn’t play them as I heard them. The first instrument I learned when I was young was the piano, and though I can’t play keyboards like Roger, Cure keyboards have always been very simplistic on purpose and that’s because I’m playing them. So there is keyboards set up in the studio for the new album, and me or Porl will play them if we feel like the song needs them. The difference is, for the first time since those early albums is that there is no keyboard player in the room as we are recording and it’s very much a textural thing added only if we feel they’re needed. When you have a player there, a part is written for keyboards whether or not with hindsight you think it might’ve been better without; so this way it lends a much greater flexibity and I actually feel much happier about it.
[/size]

Robert makes an interesting point that without a permanent keyboard player, there's no need to have a keyboard part unless the song warrants it.

scatcat

thanks for that link Secrets.. it is always a topic for debate this keyboard issue. Listening to the older recordings, videos, etc.. they belong in their time BECAUSE of the keyboards.. you know 80's-90's music. Although there are a few songs that I really loved the keyboards in.. I just enjoy the fresher sound the Band have now, using guitars instead of keyboards. They pulled it off magically. ! For example.. the Melbourne gigs!!  :smth023
Seventeen seconds
A measure of life