Author Topic: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....  (Read 6782 times)

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Offline psychophysio

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Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« on: August 20, 2007, 23:42:31 »
Alright there, I am on holiday this week and am finally going to get around to (trying to) make an audio bootleg of the 1992-08-15 Supertop show in NZ. I only have a dodgy mp3 of it that is very poor quality and misses the end of A Forest.

My source is a DVD taken from a VHS bootleg of the whole show. Somewhere along the way I may get around to sharing the video as well. The recording was made via a handheld camera of some sort. I have no idea who did it and what equipment they used. I acquired it from someone back in 1992 that I can't remember any more.

Anyway, I have extracted the audio into a wav file via Smartripper 2.41 and HeadAC3he 0.23a. I now have a nice big wav file that I will chop into bits using CD Wave 190 (unless someone can suggest a better tool). Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

I was thinking of then converting to FLAC and sharing somewhere (maybe DIME or Foreverdrowning to get my share ratios up). My upload and data cap are pretty crap though so will take a wee while to get it out there.

Any thoughts?

Online dsanchez

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 17:02:32 »
Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

I use goldwave for editing audio. It's kind of freeware

http://goldwave.softonic.com/

However I would suggest you to let the audio "as it". Many people would love to hear it in the original format (even with crowd noise :)
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Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 22:31:20 »

However I would suggest you to let the audio "as it". Many people would love to hear it in the original format (even with crowd noise :)

Cheers David. I will look into it. There are some real gems in the corwd noise, especially during the equipment breakdown bit (drunk Kiwis....) and later in the encores a guy saying to the taper "this will make a great movie man" or words to that effect.

There are a couple of little pops and crackles I would like to remove so will have a play. I have the audio extracted and cut up, just have to do the encoding. I won't be able to upload anywhere til next month as I have gone over my datacap and effectively have dialup internet for the moment.

Offline boo

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 09:54:21 »
Alright there, I am on holiday this week and am finally going to get around to (trying to) make an audio bootleg of the 1992-08-15 Supertop show in NZ. I only have a dodgy mp3 of it that is very poor quality and misses the end of A Forest.

My source is a DVD taken from a VHS bootleg of the whole show. Somewhere along the way I may get around to sharing the video as well. The recording was made via a handheld camera of some sort. I have no idea who did it and what equipment they used. I acquired it from someone back in 1992 that I can't remember any more.

Anyway, I have extracted the audio into a wav file via Smartripper 2.41 and HeadAC3he 0.23a. I now have a nice big wav file that I will chop into bits using CD Wave 190 (unless someone can suggest a better tool). Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

I was thinking of then converting to FLAC and sharing somewhere (maybe DIME or Foreverdrowning to get my share ratios up). My upload and data cap are pretty crap though so will take a wee while to get it out there.

Any thoughts?

why dont you upload the dvd on dime? in that case you share a 4gb file instead if a 1 gb one(is better for your upload rates) and it would be easier for you so you save yourself a lot of time and you can enjoy your holiday.

Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 11:58:15 »

[/quote]

why dont you upload the dvd on dime? in that case you share a 4gb file instead if a 1 gb one(is better for your upload rates) and it would be easier for you so you save yourself a lot of time and you can enjoy your holiday.
[/quote]

A fine idea...I have the audio already extracted, just need to maybe get rid of a couple of we blanks and then put it up for here. I will probably upload the DVD to DIME for your reasons - it will take a while though as my upload is only 128kbps (about 9k/bytes. I would like to put it there and then some kind soul with lotsa bandwidth here could share it with everyone else on curefans  :P.

I have to wait until next month anyway as I am at dialup speed presently - should happen in the next month though.

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 21:05:10 »
Anyway, I have extracted the audio into a wav file via Smartripper 2.41 and HeadAC3he 0.23a. I now have a nice big wav file that I will chop into bits using CD Wave 190 (unless someone can suggest a better tool). Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

interesting to hear of a dvd from this gig - would be really appreciated if you could share that, as suggested.  :D

anyway, since the source is a fully authored dvd, i'd be curious what was the original audio bitrate on the dvd then?
i'm not familiar with HeadAC3he 0.23a but does that mean having a dvd with AC3 sound?
or maybe i'm reading this all wrong(?)

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Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2007, 08:52:30 »
Anyway, I have extracted the audio into a wav file via Smartripper 2.41 and HeadAC3he 0.23a. I now have a nice big wav file that I will chop into bits using CD Wave 190 (unless someone can suggest a better tool). Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

interesting to hear of a dvd from this gig - would be really appreciated if you could share that, as suggested.  :D

anyway, since the source is a fully authored dvd, i'd be curious what was the original audio bitrate on the dvd then?
i'm not familiar with HeadAC3he 0.23a but does that mean having a dvd with AC3 sound?
or maybe i'm reading this all wrong(?)


It has an AC3 (2 channel) 48 kHz stream which is what I extracted. I then chnged this to wav 44.1kHz via headACHe. The DVD is a transfer of the original video without any title page or track splits or anything and a long blank bit at the end. The cource is a camera in the crowd - watchable but a bit ropey in places. Not as nice as the JD Festival Hall DVD. Any tips on fixing this up are greatly appreciated. I will FLAC the audio sometime soon and seed the DVD sometime on Dime next month. When it is up I am happy for someone to host it to share or chop it up to share via megaupload or Imaginary Lemurs or whatever is easy.

I really just figured sharing the audio was a good place to start but would like to make a decenbt go of it prior to sharing the video. All hints and tips welcome!

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 11:36:38 »
Anyway, I have extracted the audio into a wav file via Smartripper 2.41 and HeadAC3he 0.23a. I now have a nice big wav file that I will chop into bits using CD Wave 190 (unless someone can suggest a better tool). Are there any good programs (preferably free) to play with the sound levels or edit out annoying crowd noise.

interesting to hear of a dvd from this gig - would be really appreciated if you could share that, as suggested.  :D

anyway, since the source is a fully authored dvd, i'd be curious what was the original audio bitrate on the dvd then?
i'm not familiar with HeadAC3he 0.23a but does that mean having a dvd with AC3 sound?
or maybe i'm reading this all wrong(?)


It has an AC3 (2 channel) 48 kHz stream which is what I extracted. I then chnged this to wav 44.1kHz via headACHe. The DVD is a transfer of the original video without any title page or track splits or anything and a long blank bit at the end. The cource is a camera in the crowd - watchable but a bit ropey in places. Not as nice as the JD Festival Hall DVD. Any tips on fixing this up are greatly appreciated. I will FLAC the audio sometime soon and seed the DVD sometime on Dime next month. When it is up I am happy for someone to host it to share or chop it up to share via megaupload or Imaginary Lemurs or whatever is easy.

I really just figured sharing the audio was a good place to start but would like to make a decenbt go of it prior to sharing the video. All hints and tips welcome!

ok then, but AC3 is a compressed audio format, like mp3. :!: the bitrates might vary but it's alwasy compressed, always lossy.
so converting this to wav and then flac is still going to be lossy. :?
i really don't want to sound like a prick or anything, but i was suspecting this a bit since most dvd recorders always compress the audio (just assuming that the dvd you have was made with a standalone recorder - i don't know for certain of course). you can record the audio in lossless PCM only with certain models and if i'm not mistaken, only when you use HQ mode - and since HQ means only 1 hour of material/disc, putting a complete cure gig on one disc means you need to use SP/LP modes wchich then again means the audio will be lossy. i've never seen a full appr. 2 hour gig on one dvd that would have had lossless audio - it simply wouldn't even fit on the disc...

i'd suggest you go straight into sharing the gig in the the original format, which is sharing the dvd as it is.
i'm sure a lot of people would really appreciate this a lot. :D
whereas uploading something lossy like AC3 converted to flac doesn't really serve anything - it's what people should try to avoid doing. 
and for instance dime doesn't allow lossy audio seeds. but it's perfectly ok to share a dvd with compressed audio.
anyway, i hope this doesn't put you down. like i said, the dvd itself would be a great item to share!
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Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 11:46:19 »

ok then, but AC3 is a compressed audio format, like mp3. :!: the bitrates might vary but it's alwasy compressed, always lossy.
so converting this to wav and then flac is still going to be lossy. :?
i really don't want to sound like a prick or anything, but i was suspecting this a bit since most dvd recorders always compress the audio (just assuming that the dvd you have was made with a standalone recorder - i don't know for certain of course). you can record the audio in lossless PCM only with certain models and if i'm not mistaken, only when you use HQ mode - and since HQ means only 1 hour of material/disc, putting a complete cure gig on one disc means you need to use SP/LP modes wchich then again means the audio will be lossy. i've never seen a full appr. 2 hour gig on one dvd that would have had lossless audio - it simply wouldn't even fit on the disc...

i'd suggest you go straight into sharing the gig in the the original format, which is sharing the dvd as it is.
i'm sure a lot of people would really appreciate this a lot. :D
whereas uploading something lossy like AC3 converted to flac doesn't really serve anything - it's what people should try to avoid doing. 
and for instance dime doesn't allow lossy audio seeds. but it's perfectly ok to share a dvd with compressed audio.
anyway, i hope this doesn't put you down. like i said, the dvd itself would be a great item to share!


No worries and good advice. I didn't realise ACM was lossy, so as you say, there is no point making a FLAC version is there? I will seed the DVD at some stage next month and might make a VBR mp3 version of the show for everyone else who can't get hold of the DVD or is interested in this recording of the show. The only other version I have of it cuts A Forest with 6 minutes to go and sounds quite poor compared to my version.

Offline japanesebaby

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 12:15:44 »

ok then, but AC3 is a compressed audio format, like mp3. :!: the bitrates might vary but it's alwasy compressed, always lossy.
so converting this to wav and then flac is still going to be lossy. :?
i really don't want to sound like a prick or anything, but i was suspecting this a bit since most dvd recorders always compress the audio (just assuming that the dvd you have was made with a standalone recorder - i don't know for certain of course). you can record the audio in lossless PCM only with certain models and if i'm not mistaken, only when you use HQ mode - and since HQ means only 1 hour of material/disc, putting a complete cure gig on one disc means you need to use SP/LP modes wchich then again means the audio will be lossy. i've never seen a full appr. 2 hour gig on one dvd that would have had lossless audio - it simply wouldn't even fit on the disc...

i'd suggest you go straight into sharing the gig in the the original format, which is sharing the dvd as it is.
i'm sure a lot of people would really appreciate this a lot. :D
whereas uploading something lossy like AC3 converted to flac doesn't really serve anything - it's what people should try to avoid doing. 
and for instance dime doesn't allow lossy audio seeds. but it's perfectly ok to share a dvd with compressed audio.
anyway, i hope this doesn't put you down. like i said, the dvd itself would be a great item to share!


No worries and good advice. I didn't realise ACM was lossy, so as you say, there is no point making a FLAC version is there? I will seed the DVD at some stage next month and might make a VBR mp3 version of the show for everyone else who can't get hold of the DVD or is interested in this recording of the show. The only other version I have of it cuts A Forest with 6 minutes to go and sounds quite poor compared to my version.

yes, all AC3 is lossy. the highest AC3 bitrate is 448 kb/s, and mostly it can even be something pretty low as 128. :!: which is really low.
so just like with any other lossy format, be it mp3s or ogg or something else, there's really no point in putting it to flac.

making audio rip from dvds with AC3 sound is an old and often talked about problem: because it's difficult to play and/or edit anything that's in AC3 - it's a format that's used only with dvds so audio players/editors won't accept it. and if your dvd doesn't have tracks, you'd need to convert to wav first, then edit/add tracks and then re-compress to mp3 - which is also not a really good option since it's going to be double-compressed then. so in theory, the best way to share an AC3 file would be to share it as it is - but it's problematic because it's very inpractical since it's so difficult to find anything to listen to it with! then again, i personally wouldn't double-compress anything since the even rather good quality quickly goes poor after that treatment.
i guess all i'm saying is that i'm just curious if your dvd has an exceptionally good sound, since you've been interested into making an audio rip. i've also never heard a really good audio recording from this gig, yet maybe comparison with audio versions that people out here/there have could be made? i can post a sample of my copy, but not right now (i'm not at my stuff at the moment)

by the way, i'm also curious if the audio on your dvd is genuine stereo? of course i don't know when and with what your vhs copy was made, but according to my experience most of the early 90s aud gigs found on vhs actually tend to have mono sound - since most people still didn't have hi-fi stereo vcrs back then. depends on what it was filmed with too - some old analog camcorders maybe recorded only mono(?). there's a good bunch of early 90s dvds with pretty good sound but they can still be mono.

in any case, the dvd would be of great interest for a lot of people, i'm sure. so thanks in advance if you can share!
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Offline mikmcc

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 12:44:56 »
Can I ask

Do you still have the original VHS cassette from which the DVD was created - from reading posts it sounded to me like perhaps you made the conversion from VHS to DVD yourself.

If this is the case, then why not re-convert the audio only from the original stereo/mono VHS cassette to wav-flac. wouldnt this still be a less lossy (if there is such a term)format than the DVD audio?

just a thought

Offline lostflower4

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2007, 05:38:02 »
I was also curious if you had this on VHS.

Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2007, 07:25:29 »
I was also curious if you had this on VHS.

I do have my original VHS tape. I don't have a video player any more though and the tape does look a bit mouldy! My PC has an S-video line in - if I can find a video plyer with S-video out would that be a good way to recapture the video and audio? My friend made the transfer for me and he got another mate to do it so I dunno how it was transferred. My VHS is a low-generation copy from the master tape (I don't know the original taper).

All suggestions gratefully received

Offline lostflower4

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2007, 07:57:59 »
Well... How good is this video actually?  Is it truly low gen?

Is the picture clear and stable? Any hiss in the audio?

Offline psychophysio

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Re: Creating a NZ 1992-08-15 bootleg for us all....
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2007, 11:44:27 »
Well... How good is this video actually?  Is it truly low gen?

Is the picture clear and stable? Any hiss in the audio?
Hard to say since I don't have a video player  :cry: It is a 15 year old tape that has been stored in a box under various houses for that time. the tape was probably a second generation copy from the master but I have no way to verify this. The DVD transfer of it is reasonable but not the class of the Albert Hall show by a long way. I will try and access a video player on the weekend and see if it plays and if so what it looks and sounds like