Author Topic: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?  (Read 26706 times)

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Offline bluewater

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 13:48:24 »
I heard somewhere that the best sound quality would be 98Mhz (not khz), 1bit audio or something like that.

In recording and when equalizing or other remastering the 24bits version is better. When listening it depends. 16bits is more optimal
in quality/vs. size.
 
A good way of learning things about converting, sample rate conversions and stuff when you download the 24bits version.
Life's too short to listen to lossy music

Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2008, 14:17:10 »

not scary but triple-scary: :smth087 :smth087 :smth087
please, if you convert to lossy for your ipod then do it for yourself (and for yourself only). but please do not start converting such lossy files back to "fake lossless". that makes no sense.
besides, once it's back in this "lossless" (which of course is only fake since it already went through lossy once :( ), people easily forget that the files went through lossy conversion and just look at the end format and start thinking it's just lossless again. and worst of all, then even circulate such a fileset as "lossless". and THAT is exactly what we should all beware, that's the devil that ruins live music sharing. :evil:

so, if you have to convert to lossy in order to listen to it on your ipod, then ok do that -  but then the conversion chain ends there.
and besides, there's no must to convert to lossy even for ipods. you can play .wav and flac there too.

so, if you don't know if you can play 24-bit and you're not really interested to fiddle with all kinds of programs in order to find out, then maybe just download the 16-bit then? 
i bet it's a lot easier. and most importantly, you don't end up with some absolute horror versions like 24-bit flac > wma > 16-bit wav.


yeah, no worries.. i never trade in lossy formats or such..prefer flac.
 wma & m4a are a headache for me, and just too much fiddling around!
 but as i found out from the 'rockbox' site.. another $240 or-so...  :shock:
i guess i will stick to the programs i have already installed.   :(
I completely understand the effects of converting such flac formats into lossy-stuff. so no worries there.
I have learnt so much here on this site.. but still a Dum-Dum...

It still bugs me that itunes will play 24bit & will even convert 24bit wav to 24bit Apple lossless, but the pod won't.
 :evil:

actually I have converted the Paris 16-bit flac to wav, but not yet burnt to cd..  or tried to sync on the pod..so i'll find out soon.
as for the 24-bit concert, the 3-fold formats i went through, did finally produce an audio cd... quality is ok.. as good as my old stereo will play.

oh man.. i'm sorry , but it is very hard for non-musical/tech people to grasp the situation. ( maybe just me  :shock: )

thanx for all your help guys!



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Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2008, 14:21:14 »


not scary but triple-scary: :smth087 :smth087 :smth087
 :evil:
i bet it's a lot easier. and most importantly, you don't end up with some absolute horror versions like 24-bit flac > wma > 16-bit wav.


 :D  M:    it's great to know i can still scare you !!   ;) :-D
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Offline japanesebaby

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2008, 14:31:40 »
yeah, no worries.. i never trade in lossy formats or such..prefer flac.
 wma & m4a are a headache for me, and just too much fiddling around!

if i worry about something it's maybe that traded or not, people still resort to lossy conversions. i mean, when you try to maximise the quality for everyone's listening pleasure - these lossy conversions ruin this, be it ever traded or not. so i do get a feeling "why did i work for this and tried to maximise the qlty when it's going to be wma-ed anyway?". that puts me down.
and i mean i don't really understand why you should even fiddle around wma or m4a here? why? this is all about lossless wav, and whether it's 16-bit or 24-bit, it doesn't change it. so you just don't need any of that wma stuff... really. it has nothing to do with this.


actually I have converted the Paris 16-bit flac to wav, but not yet burnt to cd..  or tried to sync on the pod..so i'll find out soon.

but look: 16-bit wav is just "regular wav". it's what you always burn on your cds.
so there's nothing strange to be expected there, no surprises of whether it will work or not.
:?:

i bet if i hadn't written "16-bit" on that 16-bit version, nobody would have started asking anything but would have just downloaded that just like any other flac show - just like it is(!).
maybe next time i'll leave that out and just label the 24-bit as "24-bit". we'll save a lot of hassle then.




not scary but triple-scary: :smth087 :smth087 :smth087
 :evil:
i bet it's a lot easier. and most importantly, you don't end up with some absolute horror versions like 24-bit flac > wma > 16-bit wav.


 :D  M:    it's great to know i can still scare you !!   ;) :-D

sorry if i'm a bit humourless here but i don't know why being able to scare me is great?
it's really not like i like to be scared or something... especially in these matters.
look, i do dislike lossy conversions. yet i share my recording and in return i only ask people please not to convert to lossy formats.
i just don't find it funny or great if people start converting to lossy anyway or joking about it, like it didn't matter. all this wma stuff only makes my heart sink.
 


so once more for everyone: if you're mainly looking for a regular wav version to be able to burn on an audio cd, then please do download 16-bit.
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Offline lostflower4

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2008, 14:36:51 »
but as i found out from the 'rockbox' site.. another $240 or-so...  :shock:
i guess i will stick to the programs i have already installed.   :(

Where did you see that?  Rockbox is completely free!

Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2008, 15:10:20 »

if i worry about something it's maybe that traded or not, people still resort to lossy conversions. i mean, when you try to maximise the quality for everyone's listening pleasure - these lossy conversions ruin this, be it ever traded or not. so i do get a feeling "why did i work for this and tried to maximise the qlty when it's going to be wma-ed anyway?". that puts me down.
and i mean i don't really understand why you should even fiddle around wma or m4a here? why? this is all about lossless wav, and whether it's 16-bit or 24-bit, it doesn't change it. so you just don't need any of that wma stuff... really. it has nothing to do with this.


hey, i was maybe misunderstood here. the conversion WAS for my own ipod... not for any thing else. I spent the whole day dowloading.. and i totally take my hat off to you JB for the contribution! i would never trash a recording as fine as flac.   :smth090  it is probably that i don't have state-of-the-art- stereo-entertainment-centre here, that the difference is not as obvious to others.

The only program i have here that actually plays flac is winamp.. but if that crashes ( as it does often..) i am left with nothing else.
So,
1) burning to data-disc ,
 2) converting to .wav ,
 3) burning to audio cd .. ensures i will never lose these valuable concerts.
It is just that i found, with the programs i have here, i could not work out a way to pop onto ipod, or burn an audio. ( for personal use only) i ALWAYS keep the original flac files on HD and a spare DVD.. one cannot be too careful with precious things!!  :)
yeah, you are right about the labelling of 16-bit & 24-bit... it confuses those who have not an idea of the difference.

but as i found out from the 'rockbox' site.. another $240 or-so...  :shock:
i guess i will stick to the programs i have already installed.   :(

Where did you see that?  Rockbox is completely free!

i just looked up the link provided and tht's what i understood for an apple 'rockbox'.
maybe i was too tired to read the links, or follow instructions. i often find i cannot choose what option is what i need. i have 2 ipods, 8gbs, and 80gbs, and all i saw was the price...  :shock:

 :roll:

p.s.... JB   i would not modify the flac for anyone else.. itunes just for me!!  :smth020
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Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2008, 15:27:45 »
It still bugs me that itunes will play 24bit & will even convert 24bit wav to 24bit Apple lossless, but the pod won't.
 :evil:

i suppose i wonder about his.. itunes plays, but not yet synched pod to test.. hhmmm...  :?

i have had enuff  tech-stuff for today. hopefully tomorrow will bring me
a) a new head ( this 'ol one is useless)
b) a bigger brain ( head is small, can i fit a bigger brain in?)
c) answer to all my questions plus solutions...  ;)


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Offline japanesebaby

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 15:40:05 »
ok then. but i also meant what lodtflower4 already pointed out, which is this:

so, i used dBpoweramp to convert .wav to .wma = this worked ( can now play in windows media player)

i then used itunes to convert .wma to applelossless into itunes = this worked.

even if it's for your own ipod only, there's simply no point in converting first to lossy (wma) and then back to "lossless" (applelossless).
you're just doing yourself a disfavour there as you ARE losing quality there. because you don't benefit from the better quality of 24-bit at all if you have to put it through lossy conversion anyway(!).
and thus it would actually be a lot more reasonable to download 16-bit files then.

this is the kind of quality loss that i find so useless, regardless of whether it's ever traded or not. it simply serves nothing and it shouldn't be necessary.
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Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2008, 15:48:08 »
uumm.. i did download the 16-bit paris, so that's okay i presume..  :smth023


i suppose i don't understand a lot about bitrates etc.. but the test i did, converting to wma was just to see if it worked, not for playback, as i very rarely use this for listening to music.  :!: sorry, my inadequacies as a music-maestro are exposed..  :oops:

after lostflower4 suggested flac>wav>itunes, this worked.  so no problems there!
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Offline Steve

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2008, 18:12:26 »
Just been doing some reading & wondered what the verdict is on the software for authoring DVD audio.
There are some applications (soundforge do one for example) that will burn DVDA using a regular DVD writer, that will play on DVDA machines.
Now, I am curious to take some of the 24bit recordings & make some DVDAs as my player & the AV amp I have, will play 24 bit 48khz audio.
Any recommendations/ horror stories before I make a load of coasters?
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Offline scatcat

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2008, 18:16:29 »
 :D  hey, i know this is off-topic.. but when my HD was buggered, i didn't even think of using the rejects as coasters.. very handy indeed!!   ;)
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Offline Steve

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2008, 18:23:00 »
:D  hey, i know this is off-topic.. but when my HD was buggered, i didn't even think of using the rejects as coasters.. very handy indeed!!   ;)
Or xmas tree decorations. That's another one.. ;)
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Offline krissik

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2008, 00:19:26 »
Hi Everybody.
 Well I had the problem of being not able to hear nor convert 24bit recordings. I was bummed out because I was really looking forward to hearing the tapers recordings as well as burning to Cd. I like to burn to CD because if my computer crashed and the hard drive crapped out then there goes all my concerts. That would really piss me off. So that is why I try to burn concerts, a back up if you like. Anyway I digress. To solve my problem I downloaded the latest version of winamp which enables you to hear the 24bit recordings ( thanks for the info about the soundcard... possibly I'm not really hearing 24bit. I will investigate the quality of my soundcard ). The other problem of conversion....I searched for a program that would do this. I found www.goldwave.com and downloaded a trial version.  v5.23.  This program converts 24bit 48 to 16bit 44.1 very easily as well as a myriad of other useful things. I decided to buy it.  Anyway I hope that it may help some of you out there who wish to downsample.
                                                      Cheers, Chris ( New Zealand )

Offline Steve

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2008, 07:02:43 »
Hi Everybody.
 Well I had the problem of being not able to hear nor convert 24bit recordings. I was bummed out because I was really looking forward to hearing the tapers recordings as well as burning to Cd. I like to burn to CD because if my computer crashed and the hard drive crapped out then there goes all my concerts. That would really piss me off. So that is why I try to burn concerts, a back up if you like. Anyway I digress. To solve my problem I downloaded the latest version of winamp which enables you to hear the 24bit recordings ( thanks for the info about the soundcard... possibly I'm not really hearing 24bit. I will investigate the quality of my soundcard ). The other problem of conversion....I searched for a program that would do this. I found www.goldwave.com and downloaded a trial version.  v5.23.  This program converts 24bit 48 to 16bit 44.1 very easily as well as a myriad of other useful things. I decided to buy it.  Anyway I hope that it may help some of you out there who wish to downsample.
                                                      Cheers, Chris ( New Zealand )

Thanks for the info Chris.
Audacity & even Itunes can also do it.
In Itunes, you need to set up the preferences to convert to wav @16bit, 44.1khz, drop the 24bit wavs in, select them & convert & you're away.


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Offline japanesebaby

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Re: What is the difference between 16 bit & 24 bit recordings?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2008, 09:17:33 »
I like to burn to CD because if my computer crashed and the hard drive crapped out then there goes all my concerts. That would really piss me off. So that is why I try to burn concerts, a back up if you like.

burning back-ups is important, of course. but one doesn't have to burn CDs: inaddition to keeping a copy of important concerts on my HD, i (and many others too, i know) always burn everything on flac on data-dvds. the benefits of this are many: less discs to storage, saves space - and most of all: you don't need to start doing 24-bit > 16-bit conversions "just" for the back-up purposes.
besides, a CD copy is not a real back-up of a 24-bit concert anyway. :!: it's not only downsampled/dithered to 16-bit but it also adds one cd generation there, which is totally unnecessary. there's also the risk of burning errors which is actually very high when burning CDs.
if you want a true back-up, then burn the original flac files on data disc!


Audacity & even Itunes can also do it.
In Itunes, you need to set up the preferences to convert to wav @16bit, 44.1khz, drop the 24bit wavs in, select them & convert & you're away.

yes, a lot of programs "can do" this but a lot of programs do a shit job.
i never use itunes for anything because i think it's pretty crappr program in general. when converting with itunes, errors are pretty common. i havne't compared what kind of  downssampling/dithering job it does, but i'd certainly look into something else anytime.
but i'd never use audacity for anything. it's simply horribly bad program. :oops:  :twisted:
i cannot recommend audacity for anyone, for anything. people keep recommending it because it's for free. but if people want their stuff really being ridden with errors/pops/snaps and stuff like that, then audacity is a "good" choice. audacity has a really awful problems. don't use it.
 

if you're on mac, try to use Peak. if you need to find something cheaper, use amadeus II.

for pc (which most of you use): we need a list of good programs from someone who's compared them. let's see.



*edit: about curefans members' recent exeriences about audacity's crappiness, see for instance:
http://curefans.com/index.php/topic,4754.0.html
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