Time to call it quits

[lostflower4]

Ok... I realize this might be one of the most unpopular/controversial posts written here, but something is just becoming more and more obvious to me all the time...

The Cure need to retire.

My main reason:  Robert's voice isn't good anymore. While he can still "hit the notes" and such, the character of his voice has changed dramatically in the past 6 years or so. It just sounds so strained and shrill. Couple that with his "new" singing style where he oversings everything and just sounds like he's trying way too hard, I just can't stand listening to it anymore.

The most recent example is his cover of "Very Good Advice" on the Almost Alice album (inspired by the last Alice in Wonderland movie). Musically, I'd say it's quite brilliant — but the vocals just ruin it. We can hear this same style on some of the so-called guide vocals on the Disintegration and Kiss Me remasters, as well as the infamous Blue Sunshine bonus disc.  

And in terms of live shows, Robert's voice has been noticeably declining ever since 1998. Just take the song "Disintegration," for instance. In my opinion, his voice was at its peak during the Swing Tour in 1996, but by the time the Dream Tour rolled around that song was getting much harder for him to nail. And so on and so on as the years went on...

There are still a few songs that he can sound good on, ones that are in a lower and less demanding vocal range (i.e., To Wish Impossible Things) - but those are few and far between in terms of the songs they tend to play anymore.

Other reasons The Cure should get out while they're ahead:

1) Jason is still an average drummer at best and his jobs seem to be all-too-permanent

2) The whole Schechter guitars deal, which is bad on so many levels

3) Their inability to release a new, well-produced album (most strongly evidence by 4:13, which is one of the worst-sounding albums I've ever heard)

4) No live keyboard player. I thought the all-guitar thing was a fun experiment back in 2005, but it's gotten old!


And did I mention that Robert's just isn't very good anymore?  I kind of feel bad saying this, since it's obviously a result of some factors he cannot control.

But in the end, I think a band should try to go out in respectable terms, and it's already getting past that point. No, I do NOT want them to be the next Rolling Stones (really, some people want that?)  :eek:

They could still do well as an instrumental band, especially with a new drummer... But I just don't see any of that happening.

With all that said, I really have no desire to see the band live again. It's starting to feel too much like a sequel to a great movie I once saw long ago — but now the actors are old, the plot lines are wearing out, and you just get the feeling it was made only to keep the franchise going .

Alright, tar and feather me... I'm ready!  

[Trust...]

The Cure need to retire.

I don't think the band is thinking that way ... I guess 
About Robert's voice, I can understand it if you feel like that but ... well I still like his voice and I do like the 4:13 album as well. I don't see it in a way that they get worse every year, they still sound great to me and they still make new music that I like.

It's maybe because I saw them live for the first time in 2004 ? but no other band on this planet can impress me more then they can ...

They are old? is 50 years old? They still look and sound amazing on the stage at their age, my opinion of course.
And talking about The Rolling Stones , yeah you're right then 

I guess the band shall stop on the right moment (I'm sure they know it on there own ) ... but come on, are you seriously that you don't want to see them again ?

I have just the opposite, I really want to see them as much as I can, just before they decided to stop.

And about Jason, Robert shouldn't let him in the band if he wasn't happy with him.

And I want just enjoy there music without an analyse of everything (don't blame me)

I'm gonna buy every future album and go to every future concert as long as they exist :rocker

[dsanchez]

All the reasons cited by lostflower4 can be applied to any band in long activity (U2, The Rolling Stones, etc.) I don't see why The Cure would quit.

Personally, I will follow them until my death 8)

[skellington]

I disagree with these statements, I rather like 4:13 Dream and Robert's voice on the "Very Good Advice". Just because his  voice is different then it was before doesn't mean they should not play their beautiful music (although if it is painful for him then by no means would I want him to continue)If they like what they do and people still want to see them (like me)and their fan base is ever growing then there is no reason to stop unless they don't want to.

[Cloudberry]

The Cure need to retire.

My main reason:  Robert's voice isn't good anymore. While he can still "hit the notes" and such, the character of his voice has changed dramatically in the past 6 years or so. It just sounds so strained and shrill. Couple that with his "new" singing style where he oversings everything and just sounds like he's trying way too hard, I just can't stand listening to it anymore.

I thought he sounded pretty good on the 4Tour - very very good at times, in fact, once he got past being ill during part of the US tour. Yes, he's getting older, and he doesn't have the power he once did, though as singers go, he is not doing badly at all, IMO. Listen to Chris Cornell nowadays if you'd like to confirm that. And I can tell you that Bono ain't what he used to be either! This was discussed ad nauseum on another forum, but I see two things: one, he simply must stay - permanently - off cigarettes. I don't know if he is/isn't at this point, but I'm hoping off. He's lied about it before, God knows! It slowly destroys the airways and reduces lungpower, never mind its truly disastrous long term effects. Secondly, the drinking. In the sort of quantities our Bob is famous for, it doesn't help at all. Especially if he develops acid reflux. I've actually experienced that personally, and I can tell you, it effects not only your esophagus, but your trachea & lungs as well. The surface of the esophagus becomes eroded & inflamed, and surrounding tissues suffer damage as well. Really, really nasty. I found myself with a different sounding voice and reduced ability to speak & sing.

I'm not saying age doesn't have something to do with it, just that the above are two factors which would affect his voice in a very negative way.

The most recent example is his cover of "Very Good Advice" on the Almost Alice album (inspired by the last Alice in Wonderland movie). Musically, I'd say it's quite brilliant — but the vocals just ruin it. We can hear this same style on some of the so-called guide vocals on the Disintegration and Kiss Me remasters, as well as the infamous Blue Sunshine bonus disc.  

As far as I can tell, in "Very Good Advice" Robert was playing with his voice to get a certain effect, as he did with "Club America". I didn't find this to be a problem - he's got a pretty theatrical personality.

And in terms of live shows, Robert's voice has been noticeably. declining ever since 1998. Just take the song "Disintegration," for instance. In my opinion, his voice was at its peak during the Swing Tour in 1996, but by the time the Dream Tour rolled around that song was getting much harder for him to nail. And so on and so on as the years went on...

I'll spare you the lecture I gave above about drinking & smoking. But that's what the problem was. Lack of exercise probably doesn't help either.


1) Jason is still an average drummer at best and his jobs seem to be all-too-permanent

2) The whole Schechter guitars deal, which is bad on so many levels

3) Their inability to release a new, well-produced album (most strongly evidence by 4:13, which is one of the worst-sounding albums I've ever heard)

You've got 3 good points here, but I personally will hang in there & see what the future brings. There's hope for future change on all three items.


4) No live keyboard player. I thought the all-guitar thing was a fun experiment back in 2005, but it's gotten old!

I'm one of the people who don't weep nostalgically for the keyboards/Roger, but you're perfectly welcome to feel differently! I quite liked having Porl back and the band rocking out more.


And did I mention that Robert's just isn't very good anymore?  I kind of feel bad saying this, since it's obviously a result of some factors he cannot control.

Yes he can. I got in some trouble for speaking my mind on this elsewhere, but this is an area where Robert, if he wants to sound good for years to come, simply must discipline himself. No smoking, good aerobic exercise of some kind, and a healthy diet. There, I've said it. So what if I sound like goody two-shoes!  Does he want to be reknowned for having aged well, with a strong voice well into his older years, or not? It's his choice. I know he's all about the self-indulgence, but it's make time or break time at this point.



But in the end, I think a band should try to go out in respectable terms, and it's already getting past that point. No, I do NOT want them to be the next Rolling Stones (really, some people want that?)  :eek:

But I'll miss Keef. 

They could still do well as an instrumental band, especially with a new drummer... But I just don't see any of that happening.


Ack! No thanks. 

With all that said, I really have no desire to see the band live again. It's starting to feel too much like a sequel to a great movie I once saw long ago — but now the actors are old, the plot lines are wearing out, and you just get the feeling it was made only to keep the franchise going .

Alright, tar and feather me... I'm ready!  
[/quote]

You've got a right to sing the blues.    Hopefully I'll have some money saved up by the time they tour again.

[ron]

After following a band for over 25years you really feel an emotional response when someone says they think they should give it up and retire.  It is shocking but when I really thought about it and read what Caley had to say, I have to agree with him. It is painful, but the decline is evident.  I'll still support the band with all of it's endeavors but my enthusiasm for them may fade. 

Thanks for the great analysis Caley.  I don't like it but I agree with it...

ron
www.lostinaforest.com

[crowbi_wan]

I can't agree with everything, Caley.  Do your 49ers need to retire?  Meaning I tend to look at The Cure like I do the sports teams I follow.  They may not be what they once were, having lost guys to injury and free agency, there may be no sign of them returning to greatness, but I'll still go the games, buy their merch, and cheer them on. 

Robert can still write good tunes (Underneath The Stars, The Hungry Ghost, The Real Snow White) and they are still one of the better live acts around.  True, Robert's voice isn't what it once was.  But it's been this way for years!  If his voice is the main reason, why say they need to retire now and not 4 or 8 years ago?  You bring up Very Good Advice.  Okay, a pretty weak song, but it's a solo track, not The Cure.     Maybe you should revise and say Robert needs to retire from solo work?  As for his register, it's not uncommon for vocalists to play a half to full step lower as they age.  The Cure haven't done this.  Maybe it's time? 

I do agree with you on Jason and Schecter.  Nothing more needs to be said there. 

As for their inability to release a new,well-produced.  Hmmm, let's see what happens now that they're out of their contract.  While the Disintegration remaster isn't new, it's one that keeps me optimistic about the sound of the future. 

I liked the sound of the all-guitar Cure.  I too was an interesting experiment.  My question is, would you still think they need keys if they had played a different selection of songs?  That's my complaint.  Some of the arrangements just didn't work without keys.  Too be honest, I'd have preferred backing tapes.  But let me bring this up, you've heard the rumor of Porl quitting (due to lack of productivity) and Roger possibly coming back, right?  That doesn't interest you?  I'd hope Porl would continue on with a keyboard player (doesn't have to be Roger) as I think his style brings a wonderful element to their sound.  But yes, I want the keys back. 

Let's wait and see what 2012 brings us.      
 

[dsanchez]

But in the end, I think a band should try to go out in respectable terms, and it's already getting past that point. No, I do NOT want them to be the next Rolling Stones (really, some people want that?)  :eek:

After having the chance to see many bands I think The Cure really put a great show. Altought I didn't attend the last gig at the O2 Arena last year, I heard it was great.

Also notice that many people have never seen The Cure. In South America (where they have a big fan base), The Cure have played Brazil twice (being the last in 1996) and Argentina only once (in 1987). I know they have played dozens of times in Germany, France and the US, but I think there's a lot of people in the world who wants to see the band and I think they deserve it. Everyone wants to enjoy the Cure experience

@crowbi: I hope you meant 2011 and not 2012 ?!

[crowbi_wan]

@crowbi: I hope you meant 2011 and not 2012 ?!

I hope for 2011.  But as we all know, it takes 4 years for The Cure to put out a record. :roll:

[sullen]

You are right.

I never thought I'd agree to something like that, but in the last few years, ive had the exact same thoughts.

05 was interesting enough, f***, after curiosa it was just nioce enough to get a long set
06 was great because it was at RAH... how can you not enjoy a show there
07 was mexico and those were amazing

Then came 08, and things started getting pathetic.
The album is by far the worst record he's ever released.
Even the self titled had more good tracks than the two on the 413 trainwreck.

I was so bored at every show i saw in 08....
and seeing RS at Radio city again was an answer to my prayers, and it was so boring.
Trobadour was surreal, and it was pretty cool to have seen them in a space like that, but again, the live set and sound is so stale overdone and bad sounding, i really wasn't glowing as i should have been after leaving a tiny venue having just seen my favorite band who never plays something that small..
and i literally fell asleep in my seat the next night at the kroq show.


then 09 was just the biggest disappointment ever, i didn't stay for coachella, and pearl was just so blah.

I've never been so un enthusied to follow a cure tour/see them live as i have 08-10
i think i listened to one tape all the way through of 08-10 and havent listened to any of my masters, i just don't care anymore because the sound is so bad.
the same songs everynight, and they almost all sound like complete shit.


I honestly could care less what the "new records" sound like or if he ever even releases another one, but the live show has just gotten so sad, and that's where the magic *was*

I started saying the same thing last year.
He either needs to retire, or revamp the lineup and setlists.
The way things are now are just sad....

Lately, I've been wishing that he ended after the dream tour or 2002 and left us with nothing but good memories....

[japanesebaby]

i find myself having to agree with caley, ron and sullen here (and it doesn't make me happy to say it).

i think i listened to one tape all the way through of 08-10 and havent listened to any of my masters, i just don't care anymore because the sound is so bad.

you know that sounds so familiar. i stopped bothering to collect any recent tapes when i realized i didn't even bother listening to my own. it just became all boring. 
of course all the old tapes are still fantastic, they haven't lost any their power.

and i agree, it's the live shows that count, not so much the albums they might still release.

Robert can still write good tunes (Underneath The Stars, The Hungry Ghost, The Real Snow White) and they are still one of the better live acts around.

well i think they can write good-ish/better than average tunes but great ones are becoming rare. for me only underneath the stars somewhat qualifies, the others you mentioned aren't bad but they fall into the category of "i've heard this already before".
about playing live: if i'm really honest with myself i can't count them among the best live acts anymore. i'd like to but i can't. i've gone to a lot of shows since '08 and if i really list my top five or top ten or even top twenty, in terms of what shows REALLY did struck me as great and energetic performances (and not something that i enjoyed "out of habit" etc.), i have to be honest and say the cure has hard time making that list at all.

i have to agree with sullen, that RAH '06 was the last really great cure show that i saw. i was personally never bored in any of the post '06 shows i went to, but i didn't feel really energized and uplifted after those shows.

Hmmm, let's see what happens now that they're out of their contract.

at first i really did like the idea of the all-guitar cure but the terrible schechters just ruin it all. they just sound so unbelivably bad and lifeless. that's why i don't have such high hopes of things getting really better once they get out of contract with universal, since robert would also really need to get out of that terrible contract he (obviously) has with schechter. 

Also notice that many people have never seen The Cure. In South America (where they have a big fan base), The Cure have played Brazil twice (being the last in 1996) and Argentina only once (in 1987). I know they have played dozens of times in Germany, France and the US, but I think there's a lot of people in the world who wants to see the band and I think they deserve it. Everyone wants to enjoy the Cure experience

every cure show/era as a whole is only as good as its parts that create the whole. and right now many of the parts are unfortunately alarmingly weak, like caley pointed out.

for a person who has ever seen the cure, which one would be better:
to never have seen them at all, or see them in a bad form, far from any expectations? surely some people will always buy anything just as long as it's labeled with the band's name, but it's not the same with everyone.

i try not to autosuggest myself to believe that any cure show simply MUST be great "just because it's the cure". at least i'd really really hate to go to see a band i've wanted to see for years and then find out that they are totally gone downhill - what a disappointment that would be! :x

so what is this "cure experience"? surely it's not an absolute and unchanging, superb thing no matter what. all things change over time and if you weren't there the right time/right place, you missed it. it's really hard to say this as i really would love to see the band staying in top form, but i think they simply are past they better before date by now. and so is "the cure experience" too.

[sullen]

  But let me bring this up, you've heard the rumor of Porl quitting (due to lack of productivity) and Roger possibly coming back, right?  That doesn't interest you?  I'd hope Porl would continue on with a keyboard player (doesn't have to be Roger) as I think his style brings a wonderful element to their sound.  But yes, I want the keys back. 

Let's wait and see what 2012 brings us.      
 

the whole roger coming back thing is not going to happen, roger admitted he was just playing with the fans and has no intention on rejoining.
allegedly uncle fester is out though, and i couldn't be happier.... thats the only thing that gives me any hope for the future..

[Trust...]

I saw two other big and older bands on the stage this year, and the shows where only 1,5 or 2 hours long.
And in booth gigs there was a time that the frontman wasn't on the stage anymore ...
I'm talking about the show from AC/DC and Depeche Mode,

What I want to say, is that our favorite band is still 3 hours long on the stage and all off them are, there is no 15 or 20 minutes without Robert, or only with Simon on the stage, so for me they can still go on, with or without keyboards

[dsanchez]

for a person who has ever seen the cure, which one would be better:
to never have seen them at all, or see them in a bad form, far from any expectations? surely some people will always buy anything just as long as it's labeled with the band's name, but it's not the same with everyone.

In south america everyone would go to see The Cure, no matter how they are sounding now. The biggest venue in Europe would be probably the smallest one in there. I can imagine the boys playing in the River Plate Stadium in Buenos Aires, Morumbi in Sao Paulo, Explanada del Estadio Monumental in Lima, Estadio Nacional de Santiago... all sold out concerts I am pretty sure.

Having see many bands in Europe, Cure shows are still in the top of my list  8)

[japanesebaby]

In south america everyone would go to see The Cure, no matter how they are sounding now. The biggest venue in Europe would be probably the smallest one in there. I can imagine the boys playing in the River Plate Stadium in Buenos Aires, Morumbi in Sao Paulo, Explanada del Estadio Monumental in Lima, Estadio Nacional de Santiago... all sold out concerts I am pretty sure.

sure. but i was never saying that "i don't believe people over there would go to see them", was i?
something like "ok, lets' go to south america because stadiums there are bigger and we would also sell out all the shows there, whatever we would play or however we would play" - surely that is no reason for any self respecting musician to go on the tour. that sounds only cheap cashing out on something that is already past its best before date, doesn't it?

at least i'd want to think that a brilliant musician like robert would rather ask himself "do i still have something worthwhile to express musically, and therefore something give to my fans?".

like many people said above, currently the band is
- repeating set lists
- using terrible guitars which destroys their live sound
- incapable of finding a good drummer
- badly missing a keyboard player

with all this, it's starting to look like a slow death - and a self imposed one.
i'd love to see them continue but they should have some reasons to continue, they should do something to they current state and do it fast, in order to make it worthwhile for their fans - and most of all, for themselves too. 
they do need to find some inspiration, not just repeat it all over again.