Siouxsie & the Banshees (feat. Robert Smith)

Started by Ulrich, July 15, 2015, 10:49:23

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Ulrich

Does not sound too good...

QuoteAnd yes I have alot of issues and problems going right now so it is best for me to leave permanently.

Quote from: piggymirror on February 28, 2019, 04:28:16
https://twitter.com/BallionSusan/status/1066218306149859328
It's never enough...

piggymirror

Quote from: Ulrich on February 28, 2019, 10:08:29
Does not sound too good...


It's not cheerful.

However, we can't know which problems would these be.
And more importantly, we can't say wether that was actually Siouxsie or someone else pretending to be her.

It's true that we haven't heard from Siouxsie in quite a while now.
We know Severin was ill, but we don't know anything else.

Ulrich

Footage of a 1979 concert from Switzerland (?) has appeared on yt:


That must've been (shortly?) before Robert Smith (temporarily) and Budgie joined them.
It's never enough...

SueC

Thanks for putting these posts up, gentlemen - Brett is enjoying them, being something of a fan of this band.  :cool

I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing, if I was given the choice between this stuff live or Kylie Minogue live or Whitney Houston live or things like that, I'd definitely prefer the Banshees option.  Brett was saying, "That's because they mean it, and those other people you mentioned don't give that impression."  Ms Houston probably does mean it too, but that almost makes it worse for me.  Apologies to any Kylie / Whitney devotees - I understand that tastes differ...
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Quote from: SueC on February 21, 2020, 16:54:40I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing...

Their early (post-)punk stuff is pretty "raw", I suggest you try the "Nocturne" & "Hyaena" era (with Robert on guitar) and the later albums (e.g. "Rapture")! In style, they are a bit closer to the Cure.
It's never enough...

piggymirror

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 09:41:37
Quote from: SueC on February 21, 2020, 16:54:40I watched some of that clip in the last post and though it's not really my thing...

Their early (post-)punk stuff is pretty "raw", I suggest you try the "Nocturne" & "Hyaena" era (with Robert on guitar) and the later albums (e.g. "Rapture")! In style, they are a bit closer to the Cure.

I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.
The Rapture does sound a bit more Cure-like, that yes.
But then again, The Cure sounds a lot like the Banshees... not so much the other way around.

If Sue C's interested only in Robert's tenure, then yes, definitely Hyaena and Nocturne.
However... I can only heavily recommend Downside Up, the b-side compilation, containing some of the very finest Banshees songs, and including a 1987 Robert Smith "contribution"... on sitar (recorded in 1983/84, allegedly).

However, to get a light introduction, nothing like a compilation.
Once Upon A Time and Twice Upon a Time are the best.

As for albums... the lot. Their discography is as good as The Cure... at least.
But if you had to choose... The Scream, Juju, A Kiss In The Dreamhouse, and Tinderbox.
Those are the four I'd recommend.

I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.
Although it's the first album they released after Robert left... his spirit seems to linger on it, somehow.

Have a 1981 Banshee snack here (from the album Juju, and John McGeoch on guitar):



piggymirror

Okay, three more snacks.

Night Shift from Nocturne (Robert on guitar). Originally from the 1981 album Juju as well.
To me, this particular one is the finest version of the song, ever. Robert gives it a very special edge here.
Others disagree, they say they like the McGeoch versions better. Not that they're bad at all, it's McGeoch. But not on this song to me. Robert OWNS it, I think.




Aaaaannd... Running Town, Bring Me The Head Of The Preacher Man, plus most of Blow The House Down, all three from Hyaena.
Robert on the infamous fishbone guitar. He played it with the Banshees only I believe.




Aaaaannd... a more complete 1984 version of Blow The House Down.
Robert on guitar again (not Carruthers, there are 1984 versions of this with Carruthers, though).
It really is a pity that the sound quality is not top, you hear Budgie too much (it's a bootleg...).
But Robert's guitar part in this song is his best ever, to me - Cure, Glove and Banshees combined.
I've always maintained that the best Robert on guitar was the 1984 one. Pity he doesn't go (as) crazy (as this) on guitar anymore.


Ulrich

Thanks for these links, good ones for Sue to check out!  :smth023

Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.

Much more than the 1979 post-punk stuff, I'd say.
Remember, I tried to point this out from the view of Sue, who obviously knows the Cure much better than the Banshees.
To me, Peepshow does have a lot in common with KM KM KM (a colourful album with sound experiments). Superstition has some "Cureish" pop songs on it, I believe (haven't listened in a loong time).

Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.

I like it too, it's the first album I bought by them (back in 1986).
However I don't see any parallels to Disintegration at all, except that it's a good album with its own sound and mood.
It's never enough...

piggymirror

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05
Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I disagree in part. I don't see how Superstition or Peepshow sound somewhat more like The Cure.

Much more than the 1979 post-punk stuff, I'd say.
Remember, I tried to point this out from the view of Sue, who obviously knows the Cure much better than the Banshees.

Yeah. No. Hmmm... Well.
In that case, I'd say Nocturne, Once Upon A Time, and Twice Upon A Time.
Hyaena, even if Robert's in it, and Swimming Horses sounds a lot like Six Different Ways... doesn't sound that much like The Cure.
You can hear how Robert's there, of course, but it is very much a Banshees album. Or maybe it's the production that makes it sound different, I don't know.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05To me, Peepshow does have a lot in common with KM KM KM (a colourful album with sound experiments).

I much prefer Kiss Me than Peepshow, although Kiss Me is more commercial.
Peepshow and Superstition, although both contain good songs, some of them great, are not my favourite Banshee ones.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05Superstition has some "Cureish" pop songs on it, I believe (haven't listened in a loong time).

Not really I think.
Of the two albums, there are two particular songs that may sound "Cure-ish".
Those are The Killing Jar (Peepshow) and Shadowtime (Superstition). The rest don't sound Cure-like, methinks.

But then again, there's the eternal discussion - what came first, the Cure sound, or the Banshee sound?
Some say "Banshees", because of Kaleidoscope. Christine really does sound like what The Cure became post-1983.
But even on songs like The Staircase (Mystery) you can see glimpses of it.

Others say "Cure", because of... Kaleidoscope, which came after Seventeen Seconds, and allegedly has an uncredited Robert contribution.
Word has it that it is Hybrid, which doesn't sound very Cure-like...

However, I can hear bits of The Scream and Join Hands on Seventeen Seconds.
Particularly on Play For Today. Different pedals, of course, but it's not very different from, say, Placebo Effect.
Although Play For Today is a more complicated guitar part, that's clear.

Quote from: Ulrich on February 25, 2020, 17:27:05
Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 16:21:23I particularly like Tinderbox. For some reason, it has always reminded me of Disintegration.

I like it too, it's the first album I bought by them (back in 1986).
However I don't see any parallels to Disintegration at all, except that it's a good album with its own sound and mood.

I didn't say "parallels". I said that for some reason, it reminds me of Disintegration.
I can't quite put the finger at one particular thing on Tinderbox, but it reminds me of Disintegration, yes.
Why is it? Go figure... ask my ears, not me...  :D

Ulrich

Quote from: piggymirror on February 25, 2020, 18:19:41But then again, there's the eternal discussion - what came first, the Cure sound, or the Banshee sound?

I don't see that discussion anywhere. It's well known that Robert liked the Banshees and certainly was pleased that The Cure did get the support slot on that 1979 tour. He even said he wanted a sound between the Buzzcocks and the Banshees (in the early years at least).

Of course the influences came and went from both sides over the years, which seems only "natural" seeing they played together, were friends etc.

Influences aside, both bands did carve out their own sound, which is good.
It's never enough...

SueC

Thank you very much to both of you!  :smth023  I'll definitely check all this out when I come up for air, and let you know my impressions.  I have a historical appreciation for this stuff, in part because many bands were boys' clubs and the Banshees weren't.  Just none of that genre draws me, to be honest, whether or not Robert Smith is in it.  I also found I don't like a lot of the early Cure stuff either that I've heard - I've not heard all of it and am still to hear studio albums pre 1983, but I didn't really like the B-sides from that era - nothing on Disc 1 of Join The Dots really grabbed me (if anything, it was the opposite), though I liked the majority of the material on the three other discs.

Funny though, I've heard some of the same early stuff I didn't like the studio versions of back then done live in the last 20 years, and I've never had a negative reaction to those tracks played live.  In part it's that they play it better (so much more accomplished too after decades of practice) and that Robert Smith doesn't sing in a whiny voice anymore (because that was something I've always disliked).  Another part of it is that with live music, there's real people in the room, and that's different to listening to "anonymous" music coming out of the ether.  ;)

Back to The Banshees, Brett is going to enjoy watching that stuff with me.  Brett says he came to like the Banshees in 1992, because of a song they did for Batman Returns (with Danny Elfman), which he thought was interesting and different.  He then heard (and recorded) a Live At The Wireless on Triple J which featured The Banshees, and enjoyed a lot of the songs.  And since he's on holidays as of this afternoon, we're going to spend time going through this stuff over the next couple of days, so thanks again.  :cool
SueC is time travelling

SueC

OK, I'm going to do a little feedback as we go along!

We've listened to the first two clips @piggymirror posted, and do you know, I actually like them!  At this stage, not enough that I'd go buy an album, because I have such a queue of albums by people I really like already that I'm trying to get around to.  But I enjoyed both of those, and would certainly go see this live if I had a TARDIS and could travel back in time, and will certainly listen to those again when I have to do boring stuff on the desktop computer (which is, thank goodness, connected to good speakers - the bass speakers underneath make the whole desk vibrate :cool).

I like the space in the music - it's not overcrowded - and that it has a sense of atmosphere.  I like the way the singer is using her voice.  Her stage mannerisms make me want to go read up her background, because combined with the music I am at the moment imagining her as a middle-class daughter telling her connections to eff off, but of course, this could simply be me projecting.  ;)

I am at this stage not getting enough of the lyrics to know what the songs are about, and purely responding to the music.  By the way, the drummer is excellent.

I'm trying to put myself back in time.  It was a little early for me in real time, but if these two tracks had appeared in the mid/late 80s in juxtaposition with Kylie Minogue and Bananarama, I could have become a big fan just because of that.  It's just worlds apart from that bilge.  And I think this is how we start to really like music, not in isolation but in the context of popular culture at the time, and after going, "OMG, what is this?" to other stuff and then finding something that speaks to us better.

So I loathed the plastic candy-pop of my teenage years, and was drawn to alternative music and real musicianship and atmosphere and intelligence and people who actually had useful things to say.  Had I been an uncomplicated person from an uncomplicated background, who knows, I might have jumped up and down to candy-pop and not thought too hard.

One of the criticisms I had of Siouxsie and The Banshees, when I heard it on occasions when Brett happened to be playing some, is that it seems cold to me, and it kind of does, and I enjoy warmth in music, in general, or at least not getting the feeling I have been parked in a refrigerator.  Brett actually says this is a fair point because even those two songs we've just listened to have this Arctic quality to them.  There is of course a difference between music coming anonymously from a speaker, and seeing it more in context, and coming from actual people.

We have to do other stuff now, but thanks again to both of you and we'll get back to it later! :)

PS: Brett says he has Downside Up, and really enjoys it!
SueC is time travelling

SueC

OK, we continued, and the four other live tracks next-up didn't appeal to me that much on first listen (but I'll give it another go on the desktop on decent sound later) - they were too "howly" for me, which made me want to go stick my head under a pillow.  Brett said, "Yeah, these don't do that much for me either, sometimes The Banshees are just interminably jangly. By the way, I think The Cure are like a grand piano, and The Banshees are like a harpsichord."

Bwahaha, and that reminds me of a joke:  What's the difference between a harpsichord and a trampoline?  ...you take your shoes off to jump on a trampoline. :lol:   Of course, I loooove the harpsichord on Golden Brown - a fabulous counterpoint - and in some classical music, though by no means all or most of it because it can get really headachy and annoying.

Back to The Banshees, Brett fished around for this track because it's one of his favourites:


...and I do like that better than the last four (but I liked the first two).  He also says he really likes Israel live, I Could Be Again, Face To Face, The Last Beat Of My Heart, Cities In Dust, Metal Postcard, Sin In My Heart, the Nocturne version of Night Shift (which was in the selection earlier), and a few others.  Like with The Cure, he went for live albums, best-ofs and B-sides before anything else.  He tends to do that because it gives him a good cross-section of a band, before getting into studio albums.  Also he says he tends to like live recordings better than studio anyway.

A quick note on representation:  In some of those earlier clips, Siouxsie gives off art student vibes.  :cool In the clip above, she's in a short skirt and what we call "FM boots" in Australia, and she's bending over, which kind of makes it look like the cover of a boy magazine (maybe a goth-boy magazine?) and was never a style I personally aspired to, but there we are, everyone's different. ;)

And a little observation on audiences:  It's struck me before on some of the live clips of the 80s posted on this forum that the audience often has members with far more extreme hair than the bands!  In the Night Shift clip there's one person whose head looks like the spiky fruiting bodies off a tree:



And there was at least one porcupine in the audience too.  It's fascinating! :)  Live clips in general have so much in common with Attenborough.  You can look at all the wildlife in their natural habitat, and often you're going, "Oh, that so cute! Look at that!" :heart-eyes

SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Quote from: SueC on February 27, 2020, 01:07:10We've listened to the first two clips @piggymirror posted, and do you know, I actually like them!

See, I knew you would like at least some of the stuff they made with Robert in the band!  :cool
It's never enough...