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This Is A Lie

Started by Poe, December 25, 2008, 18:02:50

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Poe

Quote from: rubcure on November 07, 2008, 03:29:35
Quote from: KingOfSomeIsland on November 07, 2008, 01:11:55
Apparently the only time Mary ever confronted Robert about a song was "This is a Lie" from Wild Mood Swings


Could you tell me more about it KingOfSomeIsland... I like too much "This is a Lie" Thanks for the Info  :smth023


I don't read that many Cure interviews, but I actually did happen to read an (the?) interview where he mentions this recently. Here's the part with This is a Lie:

QuoteIn "This Is a Lie", one of the most sombre songs on "Wild Mood Swings", you describe life as a lie. You sing that every love relationship is a lie, since by choosing one person, you deny everyone else in the world, without being able to know if you have made the right choice or not. That you only pretend, all the way until the end. Is this something that you feel very strongly or is this only a thought?

It is something that I feel strongly since I don't think it can be any other way. It is like that. No one can be sure. But you can't walk around thinking about it either, you would become insane. That very text is the only one I had to defend in front of Mary, the only one that made her upset. What "why each of us must lose everyone else in the world"? What do you mean?'

"The 13th", which is the first single, has a very lustfilled text that seems to be about a dancer in some kind of Latin club. How did it go with that one? Didn't you have to explain that one?

Ha! No, there's no danger. Mary likes me. She knows I'm not perfect, she loves me as I am. "The 13th" is about a sensational dancer in a club in Colombia. But it's ok. I managed to get it through without any major problems.


http://www.musicfanclubs.org/cure/press/I22.html (1996, Pop magazine)

Not often you hear "sensational" dancer, sensationally...nude?  :P  :lol: Anyhow, I did hear about one, ONE "incident" from a few years back that probably did happen, but christ, who cares, and Mary knows her man. Like spiltmilk says, Rob's been writing "suggestive" lyrics for ages. Things change over the years, people change, but with the risk of sounding soppy, I think she still means the world to Rob, regardless of what fame has brought him. This is the end of the interview above, touching and a bit scary at the same time:

QuoteYou talked about how your relation with The Cure has changed. I have gotten the impression that Mary has been just as big necessity in your life for a long time. Do you think that the band would have existed today if she had disappeared seven-eight years ago?

No. Mary means so incomprehensibly much to me. I actually don't think she has ever realized how dependent I've been of her during all these years we've been together. She's always been the one that has saved me when I have been the most self-destructive, she's always been the one that has caught me when I have been so very close to fall apart completely, and if she would have disappeared - I am sorry, I know that I'm falling into my irritating miserable image by saying it - then I would have killed myself.

Soppy moment's over. 
Betty said she prayed today
For the sky to blow away...

dsanchez

Quote from: Poe on December 25, 2008, 18:02:50
QuoteIn "This Is a Lie", one of the most sombre songs on "Wild Mood Swings", you describe life as a lie. You sing that every love relationship is a lie, since by choosing one person, you deny everyone else in the world, without being able to know if you have made the right choice or not. That you only pretend, all the way until the end. Is this something that you feel very strongly or is this only a thought?



Wow. I never payed much attention to this song, but now that I read the lyrics, it's very interesting. I guess many of us have thought in some moment of our lives, "what if?".

For instance, I was just talking some days ago to a friend about this casual meetings on a train, when you meet random people and have a really a very nice chat, but that's all. Then you start to wonder what if you asked for an email or a phone? What if? I guess many have asked themselves at least once in a life "why is this way?"
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Chain Of Flowers

It's interesting how different people interpret Cure songs, and the fact that the songs can mean something different to so many people is one of the things that makes them special.

I never really thought of 'This Is A Lie' in a way that would make a wife raise her eyebrows at all (I'd expect that from 'Watching Me Fall' or 'Open').  I saw that song as one of those wondering concept tracks like a lot of what Bloodflowers is, just wondering about life and why we all play the role we play.  That line about loosing everyone else in the world I took as the fact that some day we'll all be gone, therefore nobody stays around forever.

Matti

Quote from: KingOfSomeIsland on November 07, 2008, 01:11:55
Apparently the only time Mary ever confronted Robert about a song was "This is a Lie" from Wild Mood Swings


At least the only time we know of. From VOX magazine, June 1996 (Oi, Britpop! Bob's your uncle!):

Quote"It's the first thing I've written that Mary came and asked what I meant by it. [...] because it was so anti-monogamy, she came up and said, 'is this really what you think?' It was much worse before. The original lyric to This is a Lie actually had as final line: 'Travel a long road ... in chains'."
Charming.
"Exactly", he laughs. "That was her word - charming..."
...hold me like this for a hundred thousand million days...

word_on_a_wing

Jeez!!  ...still digesting it all.
I must admit I prefer the idea of such lyrics being him contemplating philosophical ideas, and the idea of what is a 'norm' in society (ie monogamy) rather than a reflection of actions.

I wonder if there's truth in it all though.  I've come to the view that having a soul mate is a lie ...we are meant to deeply connect with our own soul (so our 'soul mate' is our own soul!). And given our soul is part of the infinite, real love is without limits.

....I think both is possible though... to be in a loving monogamous relationship & be in love with ALL that is, recognising we are all part of the infinite
....and now a fitting track to listen to...Modern Love by David Bowie 😁

...would love to hear others views (and feel free to disagree)
"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

chemicaloverload

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on December 24, 2018, 08:37:45
Jeez!!  ...still digesting it all.
I must admit I prefer the idea of such lyrics being him contemplating philosophical ideas, and the idea of what is a 'norm' in society (ie monogamy) rather than a reflection of actions.

I wonder if there's truth in it all though.  I've come to the view that having a soul mate is a lie ...we are meant to deeply connect with our own soul (so our 'soul mate' is our own soul!). And given our soul is part of the infinite, real love is without limits.

....I think both is possible though... to be in a loving monogamous relationship & be in love with ALL that is, recognising we are all part of the infinite
....and now a fitting track to listen to...Modern Love by David Bowie 😁

...would love to hear others views (and feel free to disagree)


I prefer your thinking WOAW. It's a hard sell isn't it, this soul mate business, as is monogamy. I'm not sure most are programmed for such things, if thats what you have or want, that is ok but to not want it or have it, that too is ok, however, society would have you believe that you are somehow incomplete if you don't. That is the part that bothers me and why I reject all of it. Just live and try to do what makes you happy in that moment.

All we have are moments because one day, they are gone and the person is gone. I treasure what I have in front of me for now.
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

dsanchez

QuoteWhy each of us must choose
I've never understood
One special friend
One true love
Why each of us must lose everyone else in the world


I suppose the meaning of the word world depends on the perspective of each person. After all, the world for some people living all their lives in the same village/town/city is very different than the "world" for someone who had the chance to live and travel abroad and had the chance to meet a LOT more people. Now this part of "Sit Down" by James comes to my mind:

QuoteIf I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor


People in the second group (those who were lucky enough -or so we think- to see more of the world) will most likely feel identified with Robert's lyrics because they had the chance to meet and interact with a bigger sample of people, and therefore the likelihood that they would be/feel in that situation (i.e. already with someone but interested in someone else) would be higher. Also, consider the many variables that have changed the situation over the last years:

- In the past, men worked and women mainly stayed at home taking care of the children, therefore, men had little chance to met other women (and vice versa). In other words, a person's circle was very small compared to today, with almost no room to meet new people.

- Moving from one place to another was more difficult. Just for example, before the Berlin wall's fall you needed a permission to cross from Czechoslovakia to Austria (and it was difficult to get it!). Today, in Europe, many countries share the same border (i.e. Schengen) and you are not controlled when going from one to another country. Also, flight tickets are cheaper and you can travel easily. In other words, is easier to meet new people.

- Technology makes a lot easier to meet someone. Take for example this forum. You not longer will go alone to a Cure show (unless you want to!). And of course, you have thousands of apps in the Google store to make connections (dating or not). So on top of meeting lots of new people at work, school, etc. you can also meet people online (and then in real-life).

I think Robert's questioning on This Is A Lie is very relevant, perhaps even more in this ever-changing society and there's really not a right or wrong answer here, nor if marriage -as we know it today- will work in the future. After all, the fact that in many countries divorce rates are over 50% must bring to the table the question on what's wrong.

And of course, when listening "why each of us must choose one true love... and we must lose everyone else in the world" I couldn't but think on The English Patient (one of my favorite movies). I think Katharine (Kristin Scott Thomas) was asking herself exactly that and I am sorry for everyone reading this who was ever in the same situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK49SBXBK_U

Or this another movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAqyy-OJrec

And I think this is an interview worth listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulfw5r-hrqM
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Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on December 25, 2018, 00:47:53
QuoteWhy each of us must choose
I've never understood
One special friend
One true love
Why each of us must lose everyone else in the world


I suppose the meaning of the word world depends on the perspective of each person.


Well that's right, but in my humble opinion the emphasis in this part of the lyric is not on "the world", but on "lose everyone else" in contrast to "one special friend, one true love".

In short, RS questions the concept of monogamy in this song - which does not mean he does in "real life"!
As a songwriter (or author of books, movies etc.) a person has the "freedom" to explore many facets of life - and that's a good thing!

Personally, I can add that when I was young, I did dream of the one special person to come into my life... but she didn't (or left again). Thus, I'm still looking for a special person, however if she will be "the one" forever (that is a looong time), I just don't know...
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

dsanchez

Quote from: Ulrich on December 25, 2018, 10:31:54
Quote from: dsanchez on December 25, 2018, 00:47:53
QuoteWhy each of us must choose
I've never understood
One special friend
One true love
Why each of us must lose everyone else in the world


I suppose the meaning of the word world depends on the perspective of each person.


Well that's right, but in my humble opinion the emphasis in this part of the lyric is not on "the world", but on "lose everyone else" in contrast to "one special friend, one true love".


That's probably correct, but I was trying to see this from the listener's perspective. People who didn't see the world would have a hard time trying to understand why Bob is questioning this in the first place.

Quote from: Ulrich on December 25, 2018, 10:31:54
In short, RS questions the concept of monogamy in this song - which does not mean he does in "real life"!
As a songwriter (or author of books, movies etc.) a person has the "freedom" to explore many facets of life - and that's a good thing!


Agree too. In the end, no-one knows what Bob does or does not in his private life.

Quote from: Ulrich on December 25, 2018, 10:31:54Thus, I'm still looking for a special person, however if she will be "the one" forever (that is a looong time), I just don't know...


"Forever is a long time, baby". Now a quote from Bitter Moon comes to my mind. Warning: Oscar's (Peter Coyote) speech below can be brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvSOdeVs5Ls
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Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on December 25, 2018, 10:42:59
That's probably correct, but I was trying to see this from the listener's perspective. People who didn't see the world would have a hard time trying to understand why Bob is questioning this in the first place.


Erm, I don't think so. Even a man living in a small village can see or meet 2 beautiful women (or more) in his life and imagine what Robert wrote about here...
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

dsanchez

Quote from: Ulrich on December 25, 2018, 16:37:01
Erm, I don't think so. Even a man living in a small village can see or meet 2 beautiful women (or more) in his life and imagine what Robert wrote about here...


I never said is impossible, but rather than more interactions increase the likelihood of being in the situation described by Bob.
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Ulrich

Once again: anyone who ever was in love, then was rejected or whatever, then later fell in love with someone else, will be able to understand the emotion in that lyric.
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

MeltingMan

QuoteWhy each of us must lose(...)


Hmm. Interesting books have been written about this complex topic.
One of them is The esthetic validity of marriage by Kierkegaard. There are
three determinations:

Lover= a sensual, mental and spiritual determination
Friend= a mental and spiritual determination
The "next"= (that means every person) spiritually determined

You can lose a lover or friend, but you can't lose the "next" one. The person next to you.  ;)
Notre esprit ne supporte pas un degré trop
élevé de précision, et nous avons plus de joie
dans l'indéfini: de là, la puissance de l'amour et
de musique; de là, les mystagogies hallucinantes.

Comment on devient artiste, esthétique. p. 185

dsanchez

A related topic:

Quote from: japanesebaby on May 21, 2009, 08:33:57i still don't believe there's such a thing as "the right one" or "one true love" out there. i don't think it's true. there are simply more or less good matches. mostly less. mostly a lot less. sometimes we meet a bit better match and we might start thinking "this is it". but is it really that or is it just us in love with ourselves and our feeling of being in love?  loving that feeling makes us think we're in love with someone else. it's about illusions. and our society keeps those illusions up, by romanticizing everything. we're being bombarded by ideas of one true love all the time. go back in time 100 years and it's not there. go back in time 200 years, 300 years and so on. in a way the idea of one true love is a rather modern-day invention. and as such it's perhaps just one more thing in the long serious of things that we somehow must achieve in this world, just like good job, money, wealth, status, youth, physical beauty, fitness etc. it's sad that it's become like that, we've become slaves to that belief, just like we've become slaves to money and entertainment.
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